(08-20-2023 04:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 03:28 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I do think the networks and the Power conferences have heard the anger loud and clear. Not from the fans from the schools left behind in the PAC 12, Big 12, ACC and G5, but from the fans from schools leaving the conferences. Oklahoma fans wants the Okie State games. PAC 12 fans in the Big 12 and Big 10 wants to continue their rivalries in the PAC 12. You see where I am getting at? You are also getting a lot of negative from sports fans including writers and people in the media that there are more worthy G5 schools that deserved to be in a P5. This is not over because I don't think ESPN will want to break the ACC up. Selling the ACC Network and half the contract to Apple in part of a partnership or with Amazon may give the ACC more money to play with to help keep FSU and the greedy leadership happy.

David, they have heard it, and they just don't give a damn! The ACC is all they have left to reorganize, and they are finished. It will happen. What you suggest doesn't fit in with their plans and who has the power, the one who pays the money, has never been clearer!

There is one thing from the expansion stand point. Colorado lost all the viewers when they went from Big 12 to Big 10. Maryland suffered as well. Miami, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, etc all suffered big time. ESPN already got backlash for alot of things. Online social campaigne on Twitter, Youtube and Facebook Could make ESPN, Fox and the P2 to become the next Bud Light if they continue this.

(08-20-2023 04:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 04:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 03:28 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I do think the networks and the Power conferences have heard the anger loud and clear. Not from the fans from the schools left behind in the PAC 12, Big 12, ACC and G5, but from the fans from schools leaving the conferences. Oklahoma fans wants the Okie State games. PAC 12 fans in the Big 12 and Big 10 wants to continue their rivalries in the PAC 12. You see where I am getting at? You are also getting a lot of negative from sports fans including writers and people in the media that there are more worthy G5 schools that deserved to be in a P5. This is not over because I don't think ESPN will want to break the ACC up. Selling the ACC Network and half the contract to Apple in part of a partnership or with Amazon may give the ACC more money to play with to help keep FSU and the greedy leadership happy.

David, they have heard it, and they just don't give a damn! The ACC is all they have left to reorganize, and they are finished. It will happen. What you suggest doesn't fit in with their plans and who has the power, the one who pays the money, has never been clearer!

There is one thing from the expansion stand point. Colorado lost all the viewers when they went from Big 12 to Big 10. Maryland suffered as well. Miami, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, etc all suffered big time. ESPN already got backlash for alot of things. Online social campaigne on Twitter, Youtube and Facebook Could make ESPN, Fox and the P2 to become the next Bud Light if they continue this.

When did Colorado go to the Big 10? BTW Texas A&M exposure went up. There's a massive downsizing coming in higher education David. The Federal Budget and tax cuts offered to corporations to locate in states have left both the State and Federal budgets short. Add a dip in birth rates which are about to turn 18 and enrollment will sag. Consolidation is about clustering the large state flagships in a visible way and funneling state students to them and attracting out of state students so that many smaller schools and universities can be closed or placed under the administration of the large state flagships, or re-tasked to teaching trades or specific disciplines. This isn't just about football. It is about exposure and funding.

(08-20-2023 03:28 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I do think the networks and the Power conferences have heard the anger loud and clear. Not from the fans from the schools left behind in the PAC 12, Big 12, ACC and G5, but from the fans from schools leaving the conferences. Oklahoma fans wants the Okie State games. PAC 12 fans in the Big 12 and Big 10 wants to continue their rivalries in the PAC 12. You see where I am getting at? You are also getting a lot of negative from sports fans including writers and people in the media that there are more worthy G5 schools that deserved to be in a P5. This is not over because I don't think ESPN will want to break the ACC up. Selling the ACC Network and half the contract to Apple in part of a partnership or with Amazon may give the ACC more money to play with to help keep FSU and the greedy leadership happy.

David, where are you hearing that OU fans want the OK St game? I'm often on DirtBurglars, and OU fans seem just to want the one or two more victories over the Cowboys that would give the Sooners the most victories over an in-state rival in football. They seem to think that OSU is cutting off its nose to spite its face.

(08-20-2023 01:25 PM)ken d Wrote:  My main objective in indulging in this exercise was to come up with a structure for college football that preserves as much of its heritage and traditions as possible to stave off what appears to be an inexorable march toward a small (32-40ish teams) NFL-lite model that relegates much of the FBS to second class status.

In doing this, I tried to maintain as much of a regional flavor to schedules as possible, while optimizing the number of marquee games throughout the regular season. I hoped to create divisions that produced CFP worthy champions every year, while preserving the path to a championship for schools that didn't win their division round robin, or who aren't likely to earn a bid in the current format.

And I tried to envision non-conference and out of division (OOD) games that gave as many schools as possible a regular season schedule that looks a lot like what they would have created for themselves.

So, similar to the SEC, My Big Ten would look like this:

East:
Ohio State.......Michigan, Southern Cal
Penn State......Oregon, Michigan St, Pitt
Indiana
Maryland
Purdue
Rutgers..........Syracuse

Central:
Wisconsin........Northwestern, Southern Cal
Michigan.........Ohio State, Washington, Notre Dame/2
Michigan St.....Penn State, UCLA, Notre Dame/2
Iowa..............Nebraska, Iowa State
Minnesota.......Nebraska
Illinois............Northwestern, Missouri

West:
Oregon...........Penn State, Oregon State
Washington.....Michigan, Washington St
Southern Cal...Ohio State, Wisconsin, Notre Dame
UCLA..............Michigan St, California
Nebraska.........Iowa, Minnesota
Northwestern...Illinois, Wisconsin, Duke

These schedules would give independent Notre Dame both as difficult and as reasonable as any would-be CFP team every year. They would typically play each year:

Alabama or LSU
Texas or Texas A&M
Michigan or Michigan State
Southern Cal
Stanford
5 ACC opponents
Navy

ken d: I'm counting 11 opponents for ND in a given season. Is there anyone else they would want to play?

(08-20-2023 06:18 PM)EdwordL Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 01:25 PM)ken d Wrote:  My main objective in indulging in this exercise was to come up with a structure for college football that preserves as much of its heritage and traditions as possible to stave off what appears to be an inexorable march toward a small (32-40ish teams) NFL-lite model that relegates much of the FBS to second class status.

In doing this, I tried to maintain as much of a regional flavor to schedules as possible, while optimizing the number of marquee games throughout the regular season. I hoped to create divisions that produced CFP worthy champions every year, while preserving the path to a championship for schools that didn't win their division round robin, or who aren't likely to earn a bid in the current format.

And I tried to envision non-conference and out of division (OOD) games that gave as many schools as possible a regular season schedule that looks a lot like what they would have created for themselves.

So, similar to the SEC, My Big Ten would look like this:

East:
Ohio State.......Michigan, Southern Cal
Penn State......Oregon, Michigan St, Pitt
Indiana
Maryland
Purdue
Rutgers..........Syracuse

Central:
Wisconsin........Northwestern, Southern Cal
Michigan.........Ohio State, Washington, Notre Dame/2
Michigan St.....Penn State, UCLA, Notre Dame/2
Iowa..............Nebraska, Iowa State
Minnesota.......Nebraska
Illinois............Northwestern, Missouri

West:
Oregon...........Penn State, Oregon State
Washington.....Michigan, Washington St
Southern Cal...Ohio State, Wisconsin, Notre Dame
UCLA..............Michigan St, California
Nebraska.........Iowa, Minnesota
Northwestern...Illinois, Wisconsin, Duke

These schedules would give independent Notre Dame both as difficult and as reasonable as any would-be CFP team every year. They would typically play each year:

Alabama or LSU
Texas or Texas A&M
Michigan or Michigan State
Southern Cal
Stanford
5 ACC opponents
Navy

ken d: I'm counting 11 opponents for ND in a given season. Is there anyone else they would want to play?

My guess is that they would want to schedule a relatively high profile G5 team in a region where they want to recruit both athletes and students, and it would be a different region every year because they always want as national a schedule as possible. That might be dictated by which 5 ACC teams they are scheduled to play that year.

I could see them wanting to play in Houston or Dallas in years when their Texas/Texas A&M game is played in South Bend. Occasionally, they may want to make an appearance in the Mountain Time Zone. Wherever they want to play, they will have no trouble finding somebody willing to play them.

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

I think its FSU and Clemson moving, whenever that happens. When FSU, Clemson, Miami and Notre Dame move to the Big 10 or SEC, that will account for all but 3 AP MNCs going all the way back to 1960 (Pitt '77, BYU '84 and CU '90). Penn St., Nebraska, USC, Texas and Oklahoma have moved. Washington has a coach's title. Oregon has been runnerup several times in the BCS/CFP era. Even going all the way back to 1936, the start of the AP poll, the SEC has 37 titles, the Big 10 24, FSU/Clemson/Miami/ND have 19 and all the rest only have 8.

Over the last 55 years, it looks like this:
2024 SEC/Big 10 38 champs, 116 top 3, 191 top 5
FSU/Clemson/Miami/ND 14 champs, 33 top 3, 47 top 5
Remaining ACC 1 champ, 4 top 3, 7 top 5
Big 12 2 champs, 10 top 3, 23 top 5
All others 0 champs, 2 top 3, 7 top 5. (in case you are curious-Boise, SMU, Stanford and Oregon St. account for these).

They will want to corral all the football powers and the schools likely to challenge for a title.

Basketball is nice, but football pays the bills and then some.

(08-21-2023 12:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

I think its FSU and Clemson moving, whenever that happens. When FSU, Clemson, Miami and Notre Dame move to the Big 10 or SEC, that will account for all but 3 AP MNCs going all the way back to 1960 (Pitt '77, BYU '84 and CU '90). Penn St., Nebraska, USC, Texas and Oklahoma have moved. Washington has a coach's title. Oregon has been runnerup several times in the BCS/CFP era. Even going all the way back to 1936, the start of the AP poll, the SEC has 37 titles, the Big 10 24, FSU/Clemson/Miami/ND have 19 and all the rest only have 8.

Over the last 55 years, it looks like this:
2024 SEC/Big 10 38 champs, 116 top 3, 191 top 5
FSU/Clemson/Miami/ND 14 champs, 33 top 3, 47 top 5
Remaining ACC 1 champ, 4 top 3, 7 top 5
Big 12 2 champs, 10 top 3, 23 top 5
All others 0 champs, 2 top 3, 7 top 5. (in case you are curious-Boise, SMU, Stanford and Oregon St. account for these).

They will want to corral all the football powers and the schools likely to challenge for a title.

Basketball is nice, but football pays the bills and then some.

Here's what college football will look like in 2026.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/colleg...ke-in-2026

(08-21-2023 12:57 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 12:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

I think its FSU and Clemson moving, whenever that happens. When FSU, Clemson, Miami and Notre Dame move to the Big 10 or SEC, that will account for all but 3 AP MNCs going all the way back to 1960 (Pitt '77, BYU '84 and CU '90). Penn St., Nebraska, USC, Texas and Oklahoma have moved. Washington has a coach's title. Oregon has been runnerup several times in the BCS/CFP era. Even going all the way back to 1936, the start of the AP poll, the SEC has 37 titles, the Big 10 24, FSU/Clemson/Miami/ND have 19 and all the rest only have 8.

Over the last 55 years, it looks like this:
2024 SEC/Big 10 38 champs, 116 top 3, 191 top 5
FSU/Clemson/Miami/ND 14 champs, 33 top 3, 47 top 5
Remaining ACC 1 champ, 4 top 3, 7 top 5
Big 12 2 champs, 10 top 3, 23 top 5
All others 0 champs, 2 top 3, 7 top 5. (in case you are curious-Boise, SMU, Stanford and Oregon St. account for these).

They will want to corral all the football powers and the schools likely to challenge for a title.

Basketball is nice, but football pays the bills and then some.

Here's what college football will look like in 2026.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/colleg...ke-in-2026

He did describe the same type of criteria I am when he wrote that back in 2016.

But that guy must have been a Stanford grad. No way they fit in the top 24. And he left out Washington.

There really are just 20 schools who have dominated the top of the rankings over the last half century with 53 of the last 55 titles and 150 of the last 165 top 3 finishes. Only Pitt and TCU outside that group have more than one top 3 finish. He had 18 of the 20. He didn't have Washington. He also didn't have Colorado, who has faded some. I don't know that Wisconsin, Michigan St., Arkansas, Texas A&M and UCLA would be in a group of 24, but they are reasonable choices. Stanford isn't.

(08-21-2023 02:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 12:57 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 12:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

I think its FSU and Clemson moving, whenever that happens. When FSU, Clemson, Miami and Notre Dame move to the Big 10 or SEC, that will account for all but 3 AP MNCs going all the way back to 1960 (Pitt '77, BYU '84 and CU '90). Penn St., Nebraska, USC, Texas and Oklahoma have moved. Washington has a coach's title. Oregon has been runnerup several times in the BCS/CFP era. Even going all the way back to 1936, the start of the AP poll, the SEC has 37 titles, the Big 10 24, FSU/Clemson/Miami/ND have 19 and all the rest only have 8.

Over the last 55 years, it looks like this:
2024 SEC/Big 10 38 champs, 116 top 3, 191 top 5
FSU/Clemson/Miami/ND 14 champs, 33 top 3, 47 top 5
Remaining ACC 1 champ, 4 top 3, 7 top 5
Big 12 2 champs, 10 top 3, 23 top 5
All others 0 champs, 2 top 3, 7 top 5. (in case you are curious-Boise, SMU, Stanford and Oregon St. account for these).

They will want to corral all the football powers and the schools likely to challenge for a title.

Basketball is nice, but football pays the bills and then some.

Here's what college football will look like in 2026.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/colleg...ke-in-2026

He did describe the same type of criteria I am when he wrote that back in 2016.

But that guy must have been a Stanford grad. No way they fit in the top 24. And he left out Washington.

There really are just 20 schools who have dominated the top of the rankings over the last half century with 53 of the last 55 titles and 150 of the last 165 top 3 finishes. Only Pitt and TCU outside that group have more than one top 3 finish. He had 18 of the 20. He didn't have Washington. He also didn't have Colorado, who has faded some. I don't know that Wisconsin, Michigan St., Arkansas, Texas A&M and UCLA would be in a group of 24, but they are reasonable choices. Stanford isn't.

Back in 2016 Stanford was pretty good and while there aren't a lot of college football fans, the Bay Area is a huge Market.

(08-17-2023 03:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

After all of this time, JR, nobody ever figured out how to untie the knot.
There were just too many schools in the wrong places and the valuations were not right to ever get to a 4 X 16.
When the SEC went to 16 every thing got lopsided and the B1G began to panic. They were blocked from coming down the east coast and they had to make the move "west". That even threw the balance more out of whack. The ACC tried to cut the B1G off in the west, but the move failed. Now we have 18 x 18 x 16 x 14+1. The ACC will add two schools soon for balance.

Funny isn't it. After all of those scenarios, nothing worked. What we needed was Alexander's sword, but I guess in the end the market will sort things out, which actually means that the networks will arrange things to suit themselves so that they can make money even if they eventually ruin the sport. They will continuously tell us that this is what we wanted all along, and nobody will believe them, but there won't be a good alternative except for those with deep pockets.

Who is joining the ACC? You guys couldn't agree to take Cal/Ford at a discount. Who else is going to be willing to join a conference that makes half that of the P2 and be stuck in a GOR until 2036? Are UConn & USF going to move the needle?

(08-22-2023 08:44 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 03:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

After all of this time, JR, nobody ever figured out how to untie the knot.
There were just too many schools in the wrong places and the valuations were not right to ever get to a 4 X 16.
When the SEC went to 16 every thing got lopsided and the B1G began to panic. They were blocked from coming down the east coast and they had to make the move "west". That even threw the balance more out of whack. The ACC tried to cut the B1G off in the west, but the move failed. Now we have 18 x 18 x 16 x 14+1. The ACC will add two schools soon for balance.

Funny isn't it. After all of those scenarios, nothing worked. What we needed was Alexander's sword, but I guess in the end the market will sort things out, which actually means that the networks will arrange things to suit themselves so that they can make money even if they eventually ruin the sport. They will continuously tell us that this is what we wanted all along, and nobody will believe them, but there won't be a good alternative except for those with deep pockets.

Who is joining the ACC? You guys couldn't agree to take Cal/Ford at a discount. Who else is going to be willing to join a conference that makes half that of the P2 and be stuck in a GOR until 2036? Are UConn & USF going to move the needle?

I think USF would make an excellent addition.
UConn won't be invited.

(08-23-2023 05:20 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-22-2023 08:44 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 03:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

After all of this time, JR, nobody ever figured out how to untie the knot.
There were just too many schools in the wrong places and the valuations were not right to ever get to a 4 X 16.
When the SEC went to 16 every thing got lopsided and the B1G began to panic. They were blocked from coming down the east coast and they had to make the move "west". That even threw the balance more out of whack. The ACC tried to cut the B1G off in the west, but the move failed. Now we have 18 x 18 x 16 x 14+1. The ACC will add two schools soon for balance.

Funny isn't it. After all of those scenarios, nothing worked. What we needed was Alexander's sword, but I guess in the end the market will sort things out, which actually means that the networks will arrange things to suit themselves so that they can make money even if they eventually ruin the sport. They will continuously tell us that this is what we wanted all along, and nobody will believe them, but there won't be a good alternative except for those with deep pockets.

Who is joining the ACC? You guys couldn't agree to take Cal/Ford at a discount. Who else is going to be willing to join a conference that makes half that of the P2 and be stuck in a GOR until 2036? Are UConn & USF going to move the needle?

I think USF would make an excellent addition.
UConn won't be invited.

If the ACC was open to non-power schools: Memphis, SMU, South Florida, Tulane. Any 2 but I think all 4 are deserving to be included. Take all 4 plus California and Stanford.

Atlantic: Clemson, Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St, Wake Forest
Coastal: California, Duke, North Carolina, Stanford, Virginia
Eastern: Boston College, Miami, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Metro: Louisville, Memphis, SMU, South Florida, Tulane

(08-23-2023 05:20 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-22-2023 08:44 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 03:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

After all of this time, JR, nobody ever figured out how to untie the knot.
There were just too many schools in the wrong places and the valuations were not right to ever get to a 4 X 16.
When the SEC went to 16 every thing got lopsided and the B1G began to panic. They were blocked from coming down the east coast and they had to make the move "west". That even threw the balance more out of whack. The ACC tried to cut the B1G off in the west, but the move failed. Now we have 18 x 18 x 16 x 14+1. The ACC will add two schools soon for balance.

Funny isn't it. After all of those scenarios, nothing worked. What we needed was Alexander's sword, but I guess in the end the market will sort things out, which actually means that the networks will arrange things to suit themselves so that they can make money even if they eventually ruin the sport. They will continuously tell us that this is what we wanted all along, and nobody will believe them, but there won't be a good alternative except for those with deep pockets.

Who is joining the ACC? You guys couldn't agree to take Cal/Ford at a discount. Who else is going to be willing to join a conference that makes half that of the P2 and be stuck in a GOR until 2036? Are UConn & USF going to move the needle?

I think USF would make an excellent addition.
UConn won't be invited.

USF will be a good backfill when FSU leaves.

(08-21-2023 02:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 12:57 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 12:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

I think its FSU and Clemson moving, whenever that happens. When FSU, Clemson, Miami and Notre Dame move to the Big 10 or SEC, that will account for all but 3 AP MNCs going all the way back to 1960 (Pitt '77, BYU '84 and CU '90). Penn St., Nebraska, USC, Texas and Oklahoma have moved. Washington has a coach's title. Oregon has been runnerup several times in the BCS/CFP era. Even going all the way back to 1936, the start of the AP poll, the SEC has 37 titles, the Big 10 24, FSU/Clemson/Miami/ND have 19 and all the rest only have 8.

Over the last 55 years, it looks like this:
2024 SEC/Big 10 38 champs, 116 top 3, 191 top 5
FSU/Clemson/Miami/ND 14 champs, 33 top 3, 47 top 5
Remaining ACC 1 champ, 4 top 3, 7 top 5
Big 12 2 champs, 10 top 3, 23 top 5
All others 0 champs, 2 top 3, 7 top 5. (in case you are curious-Boise, SMU, Stanford and Oregon St. account for these).

They will want to corral all the football powers and the schools likely to challenge for a title.

Basketball is nice, but football pays the bills and then some.

Here's what college football will look like in 2026.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/colleg...ke-in-2026

He did describe the same type of criteria I am when he wrote that back in 2016.

But that guy must have been a Stanford grad. No way they fit in the top 24. And he left out Washington.

There really are just 20 schools who have dominated the top of the rankings over the last half century with 53 of the last 55 titles and 150 of the last 165 top 3 finishes. Only Pitt and TCU outside that group have more than one top 3 finish. He had 18 of the 20. He didn't have Washington. He also didn't have Colorado, who has faded some. I don't know that Wisconsin, Michigan St., Arkansas, Texas A&M and UCLA would be in a group of 24, but they are reasonable choices. Stanford isn't.

Look at what Boise State did in a short amount of time being in FBS between 2000 to now? They have made it inside the top 5 a number of times in the final polls. They been in the top 10 a lot. Plus in so many top 25s. They have more top 25 than some of the schools that are in the Big 10 and SEC. They have been better than UCLA, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Northwestern, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, Oklahoma, Texas, Baylor, Arkansas, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State, Florida, FSU, Miami, Clemson, UNC, Duke, Wake Forest, the rest of the ACC, West Virginia, etc. I think that is why Boise State do get the ratings better than several of the P2 which is why they were an expansion target by the Big 12. Boise State proved it on the field and ratings, and they are still being overlooked.

(08-17-2023 03:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

After all of this time, JR, nobody ever figured out how to untie the knot.
There were just too many schools in the wrong places and the valuations were not right to ever get to a 4 X 16.
When the SEC went to 16 every thing got lopsided and the B1G began to panic. They were blocked from coming down the east coast and they had to make the move "west". That even threw the balance more out of whack. The ACC tried to cut the B1G off in the west, but the move failed. Now we have 18 x 18 x 16 x 14+1. The ACC will add two schools soon for balance.

Funny isn't it. After all of those scenarios, nothing worked. What we needed was Alexander's sword, but I guess in the end the market will sort things out, which actually means that the networks will arrange things to suit themselves so that they can make money even if they eventually ruin the sport. They will continuously tell us that this is what we wanted all along, and nobody will believe them, but there won't be a good alternative except for those with deep pockets.

Please explain how the ACC tried but failed to cut off the BIG in the west. I don't see any scenario where given the choice of a BIG membership or an ACC membership any school out west would choose the ACC. Cal/ford is only interested in AAC membership, because they failed to get into the BIG, and alienated the B12. Right now, NO school would willingly leave the BIG for the ACC (actually no B12 school either), but probably seven ACC schools would leave for the BIG.

The ACC could find at least three G5 schools willing to join. half the AAC would accept an offer. Then the ACC could truly be an all East cost conference by adding UConn, Temple, USF; or add Memphis instead.

If there is relegation from the BIG or SEC, then there will be some decent second level schools available for the ACC to pick up.

(08-28-2023 09:04 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 03:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2023 02:29 PM)XLance Wrote:  Hopefully by next summer Florida State can get all of their financing arranged and will be able to make a payment an move into the SEC with Kansas to get the SEC to 18 teams.
The ACC will find three teams to move to 16 teams to match the Big 12.
The PAC 4 will find enough teams to get them to full conference status.

We'll rock along like that for a couple of years until things change again and the true P2 conferences emerge.
The SEC will take the best of the ACC and the B1G will take the best of the Big 12. At that point I predict some relegation as the make up of all four leagues will change.

That's quite likely X. Although I think the ACC could be morphed into a conference for privates, spearheaded by Notre Dame. Syracuse, Duke, Wake Forest, Miami, Boston College, possibly Pitt as a hybrid, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and by 2030, USC and Stanford and Cal could stick even though Cal is public. Pick up T.C.U. and Baylor, Brigham Young, and the 3 service academies and you have an 18 school conference.

That would shake up a few things.

After all of this time, JR, nobody ever figured out how to untie the knot.
There were just too many schools in the wrong places and the valuations were not right to ever get to a 4 X 16.
When the SEC went to 16 every thing got lopsided and the B1G began to panic. They were blocked from coming down the east coast and they had to make the move "west". That even threw the balance more out of whack. The ACC tried to cut the B1G off in the west, but the move failed. Now we have 18 x 18 x 16 x 14+1. The ACC will add two schools soon for balance.

Funny isn't it. After all of those scenarios, nothing worked. What we needed was Alexander's sword, but I guess in the end the market will sort things out, which actually means that the networks will arrange things to suit themselves so that they can make money even if they eventually ruin the sport. They will continuously tell us that this is what we wanted all along, and nobody will believe them, but there won't be a good alternative except for those with deep pockets.

Please explain how the ACC tried but failed to cut off the BIG in the west. I don't see any scenario where given the choice of a BIG membership or an ACC membership any school out west would choose the ACC. Cal/ford is only interested in AAC membership, because they failed to get into the BIG, and alienated the B12. Right now, NO school would willingly leave the BIG for the ACC (actually no B12 school either), but probably seven ACC schools would leave for the BIG.

The ACC could find at least three G5 schools willing to join. half the AAC would accept an offer. Then the ACC could truly be an all East cost conference by adding UConn, Temple, USF; or add Memphis instead.

If there is relegation from the BIG or SEC, then there will be some decent second level schools available for the ACC to pick up.

I don't recall the ACC ever looking west until the recent StanCal desperado stuff. I know folks dreamed about UTx (along with the headaches that go with the Horns) in years gone by, but that was about it. The ACC's expansion plans over the past 20 years have been exclusively focused on picking off Big East schools until very recently and desperately.