(01-24-2023 09:45 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  79, I know you care. And more importantly I sincerely value the extensively informative side of your posting. That goes for most posters here as well. ‘79 raises a great point that this season is so dismal it is bound to hurt the program for some time to come. What recruit or parent would want to send their kid/player here with the current situation. Very true, but that is my point of treating the players with more respect.

What is a bigger zoo than the team at this moment is the fan base on this forum (or at least several posters). You can change the Coach, you can change the players, but what parent wants to send their kid to play at a school whose VERY LIMITED fan base are represented by a bunch of over opinionated jerks on this forum as we seem to be when we publicly say things like:

“this player doesn’t belong in D1”
“that player has a low bbiq”
“Ray Lee a player from five or 10 years ago had ruined EMU basketball forever with his poor attitude.”
“this or that player is a cancer”

Ray Lee played some pro ball, but now is just looking for normal jobs. When a prospective employer searches his name, this forum does comes up in the search. They are literally going to find overly strong and PROBABLY WRONG opinions on his character from years on this forum. What player or parent wants to read that or have others read that. And the same posters are now doing the same things with Emoni Bates but EVEN WORSE.

If you want to say Emoni Bates (or any other player) needs to develop his defense or improve his shot selection. No doubt. But if you want to obsessively scrutinize how he conducts himself in a huddle and then extrapolate his personality and character flaws out of it and make it a public statement- well, that is conjecture at best but more likely slander. What player or parent wants to come to a situation where this is what their LIMITED fanbase are like.

This is not about Emoni Bates. I brought this up last year too when some people would more passively deride McBride as not D1 capable (he is a strong contributor at a solid Youngstown State team right now, btw) or the same to Binelli (who played pro back in Italy this past year). These were people’s opinions, and were clearly wrong. So how about some restraint?

EMU does not have a media presence. We have some solid Twitter alternative journalists in theVanZee, SideLines, etc who do a great job and are very professional in their decorum. And we have this Forum. If a prospective player or parent wants to scope out EMU, they will probably find this forum before they find the Twitter accounts. So why not present the EMU community as one that not only is interested in good basketball but has patience and respect for the players as they develop. That would be a place I would want to send my kids. Not one that is so ready to slander and get rid of my kid as if you are dumping a losing commodity.

I know everyone here is a decent person. I just don’t think that everyone is thinking through their conclusions and regardless of those conclusions are not showing enough discretion with what they are saying. This forum is hurting the EMU basketball program far more than the dismal play on the court. I am not trying to frown on critique of the team, nor enter into debate with anyone on this, just describing why it is I keep defending these players. I see them as human beings that belong to the community of my alma mater. A community that I love very much. I ask you all to treat these young men fairly and respectfully.

Thank you, Ramy for bringing us back to treating each other with respect.

I tried to delete this thread and sent a request to the moderator to do so.

EMU is lucky to have Emoni - because he has a lot of potential for being a youngster.

(01-24-2023 10:15 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  Thank you, Ramy for bringing us back to treating each other with respect.

I tried to delete this thread and sent a request to the moderator to do so.

EMU is lucky to have Emoni - because he has a lot of potential for being a youngster.

Luckey, thanks for your receptiveness to my post. I personally don’t see anything inherently wrong with a thread such as this. The basketball program is in a bad spot, and I see no need to sugar coat it. We can discuss what we perceive as the problems (on the court) and what the prospects are for remedying it. So no need to delete the thread.

Splaining and Edified had a great exchange of ideas and information above.

(01-24-2023 10:07 AM)EdifiedVoyage6 Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 09:39 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  So here's where i think the team goes moving forward :
1.) Do whatever they can to keep Bates and Farrakhan
2.) Find a third guy who can score and keep Bates out of double and triple coverage
3.) Get another defensive grinder. Bates leads the team in rebounding which seems weird?

That is exactly the plan
Although I wouldn't be surprised is there was a 4th bullet where we get a new coach
Not actual news
Just a suspicion I have
I have no info to back that up that suspicion either

I think this is a very good plan, Splaining. I just don’t know how feasible it would be to execute. Hope it will work out.

Edified, thanks for the info.

(01-24-2023 10:15 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 09:45 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  79, I know you care. And more importantly I sincerely value the extensively informative side of your posting. That goes for most posters here as well. ‘79 raises a great point that this season is so dismal it is bound to hurt the program for some time to come. What recruit or parent would want to send their kid/player here with the current situation. Very true, but that is my point of treating the players with more respect.

What is a bigger zoo than the team at this moment is the fan base on this forum (or at least several posters). You can change the Coach, you can change the players, but what parent wants to send their kid to play at a school whose VERY LIMITED fan base are represented by a bunch of over opinionated jerks on this forum as we seem to be when we publicly say things like:

“this player doesn’t belong in D1”
“that player has a low bbiq”
“Ray Lee a player from five or 10 years ago had ruined EMU basketball forever with his poor attitude.”
“this or that player is a cancer”

Ray Lee played some pro ball, but now is just looking for normal jobs. When a prospective employer searches his name, this forum does comes up in the search. They are literally going to find overly strong and PROBABLY WRONG opinions on his character from years on this forum. What player or parent wants to read that or have others read that. And the same posters are now doing the same things with Emoni Bates but EVEN WORSE.

If you want to say Emoni Bates (or any other player) needs to develop his defense or improve his shot selection. No doubt. But if you want to obsessively scrutinize how he conducts himself in a huddle and then extrapolate his personality and character flaws out of it and make it a public statement- well, that is conjecture at best but more likely slander. What player or parent wants to come to a situation where this is what their LIMITED fanbase are like.

This is not about Emoni Bates. I brought this up last year too when some people would more passively deride McBride as not D1 capable (he is a strong contributor at a solid Youngstown State team right now, btw) or the same to Binelli (who played pro back in Italy this past year). These were people’s opinions, and were clearly wrong. So how about some restraint?

EMU does not have a media presence. We have some solid Twitter alternative journalists in theVanZee, SideLines, etc who do a great job and are very professional in their decorum. And we have this Forum. If a prospective player or parent wants to scope out EMU, they will probably find this forum before they find the Twitter accounts. So why not present the EMU community as one that not only is interested in good basketball but has patience and respect for the players as they develop. That would be a place I would want to send my kids. Not one that is so ready to slander and get rid of my kid as if you are dumping a losing commodity.

I know everyone here is a decent person. I just don’t think that everyone is thinking through their conclusions and regardless of those conclusions are not showing enough discretion with what they are saying. This forum is hurting the EMU basketball program far more than the dismal play on the court. I am not trying to frown on critique of the team, nor enter into debate with anyone on this, just describing why it is I keep defending these players. I see them as human beings that belong to the community of my alma mater. A community that I love very much. I ask you all to treat these young men fairly and respectfully.

Thank you, Ramy for bringing us back to treating each other with respect.

I tried to delete this thread and sent a request to the moderator to do so.

EMU is lucky to have Emoni - because he has a lot of potential for being a youngster.

The way a players treats others does matter whether in a hudfle or out of it. The way they react to playing badly does matter and do does the way they handle it. This not only a reflection of the the player but the team and the university and the students. Slander is lying a person's stated opinion isn't slander. Or I would have field day on this forum. Just because you don't like or agree with a persons opinion doesn't make it slander.:coffee3:

(01-24-2023 11:59 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  The way a players treats others does matter whether in a hudfle or out of it. The way they react to playing badly does matter and do does the way they handle it. This not only a reflection of the the player but the team and the university and the students. Slander is lying a person's stated opinion isn't slander. Or I would have field day on this forum. Just because you don't like or agree with a persons opinion doesn't make it slander.:coffee3:

Perhaps I should be saying libel rather than slander. The definition of libel:
“The legally indefensible publication or broadcast of words or images that are degrading to a person or injurious to his or her reputation.”

I think it is clear you are hurting Emoni Bates reputation. Do you think a court/jury would find your “opinions” legally defensible? Regardless, I am only suggesting you treat the players with fairness and respect. It seems like the decent thing to do and will reflect well for our EMU community. I am done discussing this.

(01-24-2023 01:24 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 11:59 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  The way a players treats others does matter whether in a hudfle or out of it. The way they react to playing badly does matter and do does the way they handle it. This not only a reflection of the the player but the team and the university and the students. Slander is lying a person's stated opinion isn't slander. Or I would have field day on this forum. Just because you don't like or agree with a persons opinion doesn't make it slander.

Perhaps I should be saying libel rather than slander. The definition of libel:
“The legally indefensible publication or broadcast of words or images that are degrading to a person or injurious to his or her reputation.”

I think it is clear you are hurting Emoni Bates reputation. Do you think a court/jury would find your “opinions” legally defensible? Regardless, I am only suggesting you treat the players with fairness and respect. It seems like the decent thing to do and will reflect well for our EMU community. I am done discussing this.

But, if it is true, it is not libel.

Show me some consistent effort like last night's Toledo game the rest of the way and I love to change my opinion about this team. One game doesn't a season make.

I'm afraid Emoni played himself into the 1st round last night and will be in the NBA next year. I'll repeat what I've said before, I doubt he comes out if he is projected 2nd rounder.

As I posted elsewhere, pro scouts need to judge talent in very, very different situations. A WR might be on a team with a weak armed QB; another may play for a great QB, wide open offense. That's why they have all-star games and combines to extract a prospect FROM his college situation and place in a more uniform situation where all prospects are judged in the same environment.

A MBB player may play on a very offensively efficient team which makes it easy to get a lot of easy buckets. Greg Kelser at MSU with Magic? Emoni's situation is the opposite. The EMU offense is generally stagnant w/out him. He has to create his own offense and sometimes it is from another zip code.

(01-25-2023 05:09 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Show me some consistent effort like last night's Toledo game the rest of the way and I love to change my opinion about this team. One game doesn't a season make.

I agree

(01-25-2023 05:09 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Show me some consistent effort like last night's Toledo game the rest of the way and I love to change my opinion about this team. One game doesn't a season make.

Sure the team played better but it was still the EMONI BATES show. Without him another blowout loss??

Emoni was the 1st half and Noah the 2nd.

(01-24-2023 11:08 PM)DallasTiger Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 01:24 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 11:59 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  The way a players treats others does matter whether in a hudfle or out of it. The way they react to playing badly does matter and do does the way they handle it. This not only a reflection of the the player but the team and the university and the students. Slander is lying a person's stated opinion isn't slander. Or I would have field day on this forum. Just because you don't like or agree with a persons opinion doesn't make it slander.

Perhaps I should be saying libel rather than slander. The definition of libel:
“The legally indefensible publication or broadcast of words or images that are degrading to a person or injurious to his or her reputation.”

I think it is clear you are hurting Emoni Bates reputation. Do you think a court/jury would find your “opinions” legally defensible? Regardless, I am only suggesting you treat the players with fairness and respect. It seems like the decent thing to do and will reflect well for our EMU community. I am done discussing this.

But, if it is true, it is not libel.

It’s not true. That’s the whole point. Now go enjoy your Memphis Tigers. Thanks for stopping by.

(01-25-2023 06:32 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-25-2023 05:09 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Show me some consistent effort like last night's Toledo game the rest of the way and I love to change my opinion about this team. One game doesn't a season make.

Sure the team played better but it was still the EMONI BATES show. Without him another blowout loss??

Emoni was the 1st half and Noah the 2nd.

And we are still 4 and 16 no matter who's show it is. Next. Let's try winning. We were up by 11 with six minutes to go. Whose show was the last six minutes? I applaud the individual players great effort Steve and a 110 per cent effort on defense compared with the open drawbridge defense we have played most of the season. Turnovers killed us and Bates had a few of those. Like I said let's hope we see the same effort going forward. It would be great to get Lovejoy and Geeter back.

(01-25-2023 11:55 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-25-2023 06:32 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-25-2023 05:09 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Show me some consistent effort like last night's Toledo game the rest of the way and I love to change my opinion about this team. One game doesn't a season make.

Sure the team played better but it was still the EMONI BATES show. Without him another blowout loss??

Emoni was the 1st half and Noah the 2nd.

And we are still 4 and 16 no matter who's show it is. Next. Let's try winning. We were up by 11 with six minutes to go. Whose show was the last six minutes? I applaud the individual players great effort Steve and a 110 per cent effort on defense compared with the open drawbridge defense we have played most of the season. Turnovers killed us and Bates had a few of those. Like I said let's hope we see the same effort going forward. It would be great to get Lovejoy and Geeter back.

We are some nights a 2-man team, Emoni and Noah.

Can't blame Emoni or Noah for that. Don't want to dump on Stan, but the rest of the team wasn't great. Accuff was as poor with the rock as I can remember seeing a PG.
He'd dribble, dribble and get his pocket picked.

Acuff was cited for 3 turnovers but I thought it was worse than that. Acuff is a SG, not a PG.

(01-25-2023 01:55 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-25-2023 11:55 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-25-2023 06:32 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-25-2023 05:09 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Show me some consistent effort like last night's Toledo game the rest of the way and I love to change my opinion about this team. One game doesn't a season make.

Sure the team played better but it was still the EMONI BATES show. Without him another blowout loss??

Emoni was the 1st half and Noah the 2nd.

And we are still 4 and 16 no matter who's show it is. Next. Let's try winning. We were up by 11 with six minutes to go. Whose show was the last six minutes? I applaud the individual players great effort Steve and a 110 per cent effort on defense compared with the open drawbridge defense we have played most of the season. Turnovers killed us and Bates had a few of those. Like I said let's hope we see the same effort going forward. It would be great to get Lovejoy and Geeter back.

We are some nights a 2-man team, Emoni and Noah.

Can't blame Emoni or Noah for that. Don't want to dump on Stan, but the rest of the team wasn't great. Accuff was as poor with the rock as I can remember seeing a PG.
He'd dribble, dribble and get his pocket picked.

Acuff was cited for 3 turnovers but I thought it was worse than that. Acuff is a SG, not a PG

Bates was also cited for 3 turnovers.. Luka is more of PG than either Acuff or Noah. We need to upgrade that position.

The hard part playing PG for this team is passing the ball to someone who can finish the play.

Playing Michigan, EMU led for most of the game even though Michigan's Center Hunter Dickinson had a field day scoring more than 30 points. EMU fell to Michigan due to continually fouling him and other Michigan players. I doubt Wilson is as good as Dickinson. Just hope EMU doesn't excessively foul or turn the ball over playing Ohio.

Stan needs to decide whether or not he has enough fuel in the tank to coach at this level. If Stan returns, then he has to only put layers on the floor who will run a structured offense. Toledo ran a nice offense vs EMU 1:1 disaster that was proudly displayed in front of a large cab.

If EMU could get a basketball hire correct and be a top 4 team, we would average 5k-7k fans. Instead we get guys cashing it in.

If we can’t recruit an 6’8”+ 240 lb center who can score and play D, we need one who can at least play D.

(02-12-2023 05:19 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  Stan needs to decide whether or not he has enough fuel in the tank to coach at this level. If Stan returns, then he has to only put layers on the floor who will run a structured offense. Toledo ran a nice offense vs EMU 1:1 disaster that was proudly displayed in front of a large cab.

If EMU could get a basketball hire correct and be a top 4 team, we would average 5k-7k fans. Instead we get guys cashing it in.

I wouldn't ask this forum for advice.

It 'ran' Murphy and his defense out of town and many, but certainly not all, wanted Heath and a NBA style offense. Note: I was among those wanting Heath.

This year's team was like a 6-cylcinder car with a couple cylinders misfiring.

We know, of course, that building a winning team isn't like going to the grocery store and picking the right food items for a salad.

It isn't even like a NBA draft where a team has a fair shot at a player of position at need.

It's a crap shoot. A school signs who they can and hopes for the best. A really good PG who can drive, dish and shoot the 3-ball are key to a good offense and are hard to come by. More often a mid-major gets one when the big boys make a mistake (example: Elijah Hawkins of Howard who went to DeMath H.S. but was considered too small by most high major schools - they seemed to have forgotten a PG named Boykins). I'll take one of those 5' 7" 145 lbs PGs who can run like a sprinter.

I do feel that Noah could be a very good PG. He's made an effort to slow down his game so he can make good passes. He still needs to cut out making bounce passes on the perimeter and getting up in the air and making a bad pass that's intercepted. He's making an effort mot to do so. He recently had a stretch of committing but five turnovers in 4 games. That's a very good stat.

I believe that EMU's offense would run smoother with Noah st PG, as Acuff is a natural SG, not a PG.

It's difficult to understand why Heath has reversed their natural positions as Acuff would be a far better player if he played off the ball and was not EMU's primary distributor.

Such would also result in Emoni not dominating the ball and would make the whole team operate more effectively with fewer turnovers.

Recently, opponents are doubling-up and taking away from Emoni and Acuff's 3-point shots.

That leaves Noah open, yet he takes few shots as Emoni dominates the ball.

Heath would be wise putting the ball in Noah's hands as he is far better in finding open space to shoot than either Emoni or Acuff are. Also, if Noah handles and distributes the ball more, both Emoni and Acuff would get better shots.