(08-01-2021 02:12 PM)TerryD Wrote:  -

(08-01-2021 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

So Terry do you see the SEC being in play for ND at all? No buy in, no exit fee, more revenue, and games in the hottest recruiting regions are not an attractive lure? I'd truly value your reasoning as it would be informative.

Why not? My overall point is that if the conferences are going to force ND to do what it doesn't want to do, then ND should pick the best street corner where it can get the best price for it.

Why sell independence cheaply??

If the SEC and the Big Ten at some point were going to 20-24 super conference status and wanted to extend an invitation to ND (independence then being untenable and super conferences inevitable), then ND should join the super conference that offers it the best overall deal.

That may likely be the SEC.

I think that sticking it to the Big Ten one final time would find some appeal with ND.

Would love that last stick in the eye to the Big 10.

(08-01-2021 02:27 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 02:12 PM)TerryD Wrote:  -

(08-01-2021 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

So Terry do you see the SEC being in play for ND at all? No buy in, no exit fee, more revenue, and games in the hottest recruiting regions are not an attractive lure? I'd truly value your reasoning as it would be informative.

Why not? My overall point is that if the conferences are going to force ND to do what it doesn't want to do, then ND should pick the best street corner where it can get the best price for it.

Why sell independence cheaply??

If the SEC and the Big Ten at some point were going to 20-24 super conference status and wanted to extend an invitation to ND (independence then being untenable and super conferences inevitable), then ND should join the super conference that offers it the best overall deal.

That may likely be the SEC.

I think that sticking it to the Big Ten one final time would find some appeal with ND.

Would love that last stick in the eye to the Big 10.

See ? :)

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

The existing contract between ND and the ACC already restricts membership in other conferences. Therefore, the ACC GOR through 2036 seems like a settled issue.

IMO, ND’s choice is whether it wants to lead the ACC and its media rights deal for the remaining 15 years. Unfortunately, the SEC and BIG have differentiated themselves financially and the ACC media deal is a mess. Given that the NCAA has lost authority and there is an opportunity to design new structures, autonomous conferences will have much more power in the near future. The real issue is what sort of leadership role does ND want in college athletics.

(08-01-2021 04:19 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  ... Also, I assume this is only for football. Shipping all the Olympic sports across the country would be asinine.

It's for all sports.

Out of habit we imagine a 'super-conference' of 24-36 schools working something like a 14-school 'conference' does now--bigger, but basically the same. That's what I mean by armchair generals fighting the last war.

It will not work that way. It will work like its own NCAA.

Miami and Washington sit at opposite corners of the country. They're both in the NCAA. Does this obligate their tennis teams to play home-and-home every year? No. They can do that if they want to let themselves in for it, but they don't have to.

There's never been an expectation that every NCAA team will routinely face every other. You play the teams on your schedule, right? That's how my proposed CAA would work. It's how any 'super-conferences' that emerge will work.

A 'super-conference' will be its own NCAA. Its own collegiate-level MLB/NFL/NBA/NHL/etc. Within this big association, member schools can sort themselves into conferences, with divisions and subdivisions, as they see the need.

If your school is on the Atlantic coast, you can expect its teams to play Atlantic-coast schools in a 'super-conference.' And you can bet they will when the matchups draw streaming audiences.

(08-01-2021 02:52 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 02:27 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 02:12 PM)TerryD Wrote:  -

(08-01-2021 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

So Terry do you see the SEC being in play for ND at all? No buy in, no exit fee, more revenue, and games in the hottest recruiting regions are not an attractive lure? I'd truly value your reasoning as it would be informative.

Why not? My overall point is that if the conferences are going to force ND to do what it doesn't want to do, then ND should pick the best street corner where it can get the best price for it.

Why sell independence cheaply??

If the SEC and the Big Ten at some point were going to 20-24 super conference status and wanted to extend an invitation to ND (independence then being untenable and super conferences inevitable), then ND should join the super conference that offers it the best overall deal.

That may likely be the SEC.

I think that sticking it to the Big Ten one final time would find some appeal with ND.

Would love that last stick in the eye to the Big 10.

See ? :)

Thanks Terry. I was speaking with an ND fan on another site who did a map of the SEC which included FSU, North Carolina, Va Tech and ND and he highlighted Indiana as the middle finger of the SEC pointed right at Michigan. Thought you might get a chuckle out of that mental picture!

(08-01-2021 03:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Thanks Terry. I was speaking with an ND fan on another site who did a map of the SEC which included FSU, North Carolina, Va Tech and ND and he highlighted Indiana as the middle finger of the SEC pointed right at Michigan. Thought you might get a chuckle out of that mental picture!

Being a Hoosier by birth even I get a kick out of that

(08-01-2021 03:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 02:52 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 02:27 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 02:12 PM)TerryD Wrote:  -

(08-01-2021 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  So Terry do you see the SEC being in play for ND at all? No buy in, no exit fee, more revenue, and games in the hottest recruiting regions are not an attractive lure? I'd truly value your reasoning as it would be informative.

Why not? My overall point is that if the conferences are going to force ND to do what it doesn't want to do, then ND should pick the best street corner where it can get the best price for it.

Why sell independence cheaply??

If the SEC and the Big Ten at some point were going to 20-24 super conference status and wanted to extend an invitation to ND (independence then being untenable and super conferences inevitable), then ND should join the super conference that offers it the best overall deal.

That may likely be the SEC.

I think that sticking it to the Big Ten one final time would find some appeal with ND.

Would love that last stick in the eye to the Big 10.

See ? :)

Thanks Terry. I was speaking with an ND fan on another site who did a map of the SEC which included FSU, North Carolina, Va Tech and ND and he highlighted Indiana as the middle finger of the SEC pointed right at Michigan. Thought you might get a chuckle out of that mental picture!

It would be a work of art.

(08-01-2021 04:19 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 03:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Thanks Terry. I was speaking with an ND fan on another site who did a map of the SEC which included FSU, North Carolina, Va Tech and ND and he highlighted Indiana as the middle finger of the SEC pointed right at Michigan. Thought you might get a chuckle out of that mental picture!

Being a Hoosier by birth even I get a kick out of that

I could live with that. I'd still want to play UVA every year OOC and our old ACC and BE rivals OOC. It would make for a ton of interesting OOC match ups.

ND, VT, KY, Tenn, Vandy
UNC, USC, UGA, Fla, FSU
Ala, Aub, Miss, MSU, LSU
Tex, A&M, Okl, Ark, Mizzou

(07-31-2021 05:05 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  ...Conferences that go past 16 members are bidding to become more than conferences. They want a role as The Next Big Thing that replaces the NCAA.

(08-01-2021 12:10 AM)tj_2009 Wrote:  It is not just NIL, it is the internet streaming revolution that is changing viewing habits around the world. At some point it might be worth each college sport to have a super league where only the best teams in the country would compete in it. This league would have packaged television rights and sold across the country and around the world (if the sport is popular around the world). Regional conferences like the ACC, SEC, B1G and Pac12 might cease to exist if super leagues for various sports were created nation wide to package up to sell to the world. It seems to work well for the Premier League in the UK or La Liga in Spain. They have a world wide audience for what we call soccer.

Yes, cord cutting is another big factor here. So is the proposed 12-team football playoff, and the collapse of the NCAA, and the upcoming expiration of several conference media contracts, and the sudden need for some structure to help schools compensate athletes. Add a festering source of tension--networks willingly creating a gap between two leagues over others--and a new urgency--revenue shortfalls due to Covid--and we've got a perfect storm.

College sport has to change, because change is already here.
--

Some are worrying about lost rivalries, but I suspect that's fighting the last war. Cable-era expansions broke up a lot of regional rivalries as conferences competed to annex new turf. Things are a bit different now.

In streaming, the priority for networks is compelling matchups. Schools, as always, want to keep travel costs down.

Both pressures argue for restoring old rivalries like Nebraska-Oklahoma, and for pulling both sides of OOC matches like Florida State-UF and North Carolina-South Carolina under one tent. If you've got an athletic association that can claim 32 member schools whose teams people watch, spread across 1/3 of the country, you're in a position to set up contests like that. In any sport you want. And if you think people will watch, you will do it.
---

As you say, it could all merge into one big entity in the end. The NCAA is dead, long live The Next Big Thing. I doubt that's inevitable, though. As you also point out, networks themselves have change to deal with. A P1 can expect legal challenges under anti-trust laws. A P2 is what ESPN and Fox have been paying for, but Amazon, Google, Netflix and other players may have more to say about that. We'll see.

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

Terry, I don’t disagree about the money aspect. The BIG and the SEC are certianly better deals in terms of $$$.

Both UT and ND are proud institutes. The news that the mighty Texas applied for the SEC abandoning its BIG 12 is probably unsettling.

IMO the difference between UT and ND is that UT is a controlling type while ND is a high maintenance type.

And the ACC would be much more flexibile and accomodating than the BIG would. I think the ACC would be willing to give the 1) prime time TV slots, 2) seven conference games and/or 3) the ability to keep ND’s fighting irish TV. Ask the BIG or the SEC if they want to go that far.

Another big advantage for the ACC is that it will take the first shot because ND is contractually bound until 2036. I still think if ND decides to join a conference, it would be the ACC.

(08-01-2021 03:11 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

The existing contract between ND and the ACC already restricts membership in other conferences. Therefore, the ACC GOR through 2036 seems like a settled issue.

IMO, ND’s choice is whether it wants to lead the ACC and its media rights deal for the remaining 15 years. Unfortunately, the SEC and BIG have differentiated themselves financially and the ACC media deal is a mess. Given that the NCAA has lost authority and there is an opportunity to design new structures, autonomous conferences will have much more power in the near future. The real issue is what sort of leadership role does ND want in college athletics.

What makes you think that ND wants any kind of a leadership role in the ACC?

Why not just continue being an independent for the next 10-15 years ?

You see, it is all these "conference" things that are causing all this trouble and turmoil in the first place.

Better to stay as untangled from those things as possible for as long as possible.

(08-01-2021 05:05 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

Terry, I don’t disagree about the money aspect. The BIG and the SEC are certianly better deals in terms of $$$.

Both UT and ND are proud institutes. The news that the mighty Texas applied for the SEC abandoning its BIG 12 is probably unsettling.

IMO the difference between UT and ND is that UT is a controlling type while ND is a high maintenance type.

And the ACC would be much more flexibile and accomodating than the BIG would. I think the ACC would be willing to give the 1) prime time TV slots, 2) seven conference games and/or 3) the ability to keep ND’s fighting irish TV. Ask the BIG or the SEC if they want to go that far.

Another big advantage for the ACC is that it will take the first shot because ND is contractually bound until 2036. I still think if ND decides to join a conference, it would be the ACC.

Yes, the ACC will be more flexible....for $40 million a year or so less to ND.

Why sell independence that cheaply and perhaps only for a short time?

How much can ND get in 2025 when it renews its TV deal? Why not stay indy and see?

In 2036, the ACC is toast. The GOR will expire and the best schools will be picked off.

I see no big moves for the ACC to be able to avert that fate then.

(08-01-2021 05:14 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 03:11 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

The existing contract between ND and the ACC already restricts membership in other conferences. Therefore, the ACC GOR through 2036 seems like a settled issue.

IMO, ND’s choice is whether it wants to lead the ACC and its media rights deal for the remaining 15 years. Unfortunately, the SEC and BIG have differentiated themselves financially and the ACC media deal is a mess. Given that the NCAA has lost authority and there is an opportunity to design new structures, autonomous conferences will have much more power in the near future. The real issue is what sort of leadership role does ND want in college athletics.

What makes you think that ND wants any kind of a leadership role in the ACC?

Why not just continue being an independent for the next 10-15 years ?

You see, it is all these "conference" things that are causing all this trouble and turmoil in the first place.

Better to stay as untangled from those things as possible for as long as possible.

IMO, conferences aren’t creating all this trouble and turmoil…they can be positive vehicles for reforming and advancing college athletics. The NCAA has had failed leadership and individual schools have too many different interests. Bottom-line, student-athletes are not adequately benefiting from the growth of their sports.

(08-01-2021 05:49 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 05:14 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 03:11 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

The existing contract between ND and the ACC already restricts membership in other conferences. Therefore, the ACC GOR through 2036 seems like a settled issue.

IMO, ND’s choice is whether it wants to lead the ACC and its media rights deal for the remaining 15 years. Unfortunately, the SEC and BIG have differentiated themselves financially and the ACC media deal is a mess. Given that the NCAA has lost authority and there is an opportunity to design new structures, autonomous conferences will have much more power in the near future. The real issue is what sort of leadership role does ND want in college athletics.

What makes you think that ND wants any kind of a leadership role in the ACC?

Why not just continue being an independent for the next 10-15 years ?

You see, it is all these "conference" things that are causing all this trouble and turmoil in the first place.

Better to stay as untangled from those things as possible for as long as possible.

IMO, conferences aren’t creating all this trouble and turmoil…they can be positive vehicles for reforming and advancing college athletics. The NCAA has had failed leadership and individual schools have too many different interests. Bottom-line, student-athletes are not adequately benefiting from the growth of their sports.

There are larger extant economic and demographic issues at play here which have nothing to do with sports or universities which are also a driving force from which these issues and the NCAA are smaller spin up tornadoes in a much vaster storm.

(08-01-2021 05:18 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 05:05 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

Terry, I don’t disagree about the money aspect. The BIG and the SEC are certianly better deals in terms of $$$.

Both UT and ND are proud institutes. The news that the mighty Texas applied for the SEC abandoning its BIG 12 is probably unsettling.

IMO the difference between UT and ND is that UT is a controlling type while ND is a high maintenance type.

And the ACC would be much more flexibile and accomodating than the BIG would. I think the ACC would be willing to give the 1) prime time TV slots, 2) seven conference games and/or 3) the ability to keep ND’s fighting irish TV. Ask the BIG or the SEC if they want to go that far.

Another big advantage for the ACC is that it will take the first shot because ND is contractually bound until 2036. I still think if ND decides to join a conference, it would be the ACC.

Yes, the ACC will be more flexible....for $40 million a year or so less to ND.

Why sell independence that cheaply and perhaps only for a short time?

How much can ND get in 2025 when it renews its TV deal? Why not stay indy and see?

In 2036, the ACC is toast. The GOR will expire and the best schools will be picked off.

I see no big moves for the ACC to be able to avert that fate then.

* I didn’t say ND should join the ACC. I didn’t even say ND should join a conference although I do think it’s a possibility.

* I don’t think the ACC would be toast in 2036. I actually believe the ACC schools would extend the GOR well before 2036.

* Didn’t you believe UT/OU would stay and the status quo would continue? Now do you believe two superconferences will emerge and the ACC schools would be picked off? Personally I don’t think the SEC / the BIG would go beyond 16.

(08-01-2021 04:49 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 05:05 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  ...Conferences that go past 16 members are bidding to become more than conferences. They want a role as The Next Big Thing that replaces the NCAA.

(08-01-2021 12:10 AM)tj_2009 Wrote:  It is not just NIL, it is the internet streaming revolution that is changing viewing habits around the world. At some point it might be worth each college sport to have a super league where only the best teams in the country would compete in it. This league would have packaged television rights and sold across the country and around the world (if the sport is popular around the world). Regional conferences like the ACC, SEC, B1G and Pac12 might cease to exist if super leagues for various sports were created nation wide to package up to sell to the world. It seems to work well for the Premier League in the UK or La Liga in Spain. They have a world wide audience for what we call soccer.

Yes, cord cutting is another big factor here. So is the proposed 12-team football playoff, and the collapse of the NCAA, and the upcoming expiration of several conference media contracts, and the sudden need for some structure to help schools compensate athletes. Add a festering source of tension--networks willingly creating a gap between two leagues over others--and a new urgency--revenue shortfalls due to Covid--and we've got a perfect storm.

College sport has to change, because change is already here.
--

Some are worrying about lost rivalries, but I suspect that's fighting the last war. Cable-era expansions broke up a lot of regional rivalries as conferences competed to annex new turf. Things are a bit different now.

In streaming, the priority for networks is compelling matchups. Schools, as always, want to keep travel costs down.

Both pressures argue for restoring old rivalries like Nebraska-Oklahoma, and for pulling both sides of OOC matches like Florida State-UF and North Carolina-South Carolina under one tent. If you've got an athletic association that can claim 32 member schools whose teams people watch, spread across 1/3 of the country, you're in a position to set up contests like that. In any sport you want. And if you think people will watch, you will do it.
---

As you say, it could all merge into one big entity in the end. The NCAA is dead, long live The Next Big Thing. I doubt that's inevitable, though. As you also point out, networks themselves have change to deal with. A P1 can expect legal challenges under anti-trust laws. A P2 is what ESPN and Fox have been paying for, but Amazon, Google, Netflix and other players may have more to say about that. We'll see.

It is an interesting time for the various media companies. For example, ESPN and its parent Disney have both the cable operation, ESPN+ streaming and Disney Streaming. The cable component of ESPN still brings in a lot of money but with cord cutting that is decreasing. ESPN+ streaming has content but is not generating as much money for the parent Disney and then there is the Disney streaming product that may be the way to go for distribution of programming outside of the US to a world audience. I suspect eventually there will be some overlap between cable and streaming. I said that the ACC has an opportunity to build the best college basketball league in the US even more by offering Kansas (blue blood college basketball) and one other school (not sure which one but their basketball would have to be good). The idea would be to sell the ACC college basketball streaming package to a world audience. There are between 2.5 billion and 3 billion people living in middle income to rich countries around the world. Basketball is the number 2 sport in the world. If they could get $3 per month from 100 million subscribers times 12 months would generate $3.6 billion per year. Sure there would be costs but that is a lot bigger than the TV contracts being earned by the B1G and SEC so the ACC may have the last laugh. I wonder whether there might be an idea of doing a basketball super league between the best basketball schools regardless of conference and sell it to the world might be something that all the schools might explore (regardless of conference). I think it may only work for basketball, because the other college sports may not be popular enough worldwide. A strategy like this might make conferences obsolete especially if you can sell content to the rest of the world. The money would be too great to not look into this more. This is years down the road but i think something like this is coming.

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

Terry, I think the ACC has as much of Notre Dame as the need and more that it wants.

If ESPN could engineer, bankroll, facilitate Texas and Oklahoma's move to the SEC, what could they possible do to boost the ACC's value for the long term?
The mouse may be looking to pull a rabbit out of Mickey's hat by adding Penn State and any or all of West Virginia, Maryland or Rutgers to the ACC.
Impossible? I didn't think it was possible for the SEC to land both Oklahoma and Texas.

Perhaps then the Irish could transfer into the SEC with Kansas? and the B1G at 11 could take all 9 of the AAU schools in the PAC for 20.
Adios Amigo.

(08-02-2021 05:16 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-01-2021 01:47 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This is obviously an unpopular opinion here, but I just don't see any good business reasons for ND football to react to this and join the ACC.

If two super conferences are inevitable, then the best bet seems for ND to remain an independent, renew its TV deal in four years and ride things out until it has to join the Big Ten super conference.

Joining the ACC for football means ND jettisons independence but gets less way money for it (and will tie itself up further with the ACC/GOR) in a non-super conference than if it just waits until the Big Ten grabs Southern Cal and Stanford, among others.

Even if ND joined the ACC in full, would the latter still survive in the age of super conferences or would ND just be climbing aboard a sinking ship with a bucket and a mop?

Doesn't the ACC just blow up whenever the GOR expires ?

Don't the best pieces just break off for the two super conferences at that point, no matter what?

Just exactly what would ND football joining the ACC do for either of those entities, long term??

Tell me how ND football joining stops the SEC and Big Ten in their tracks, because if it doesn't, then why do it at all?

Terry, I think the ACC has as much of Notre Dame as the need and more that it wants.

If ESPN could engineer, bankroll, facilitate Texas and Oklahoma's move to the SEC, what could they possible do to boost the ACC's value for the long term?
The mouse may be looking to pull a rabbit out of Mickey's hat by adding Penn State and any or all of West Virginia, Maryland or Rutgers to the ACC.
Impossible? I didn't think it was possible for the SEC to land both Oklahoma and Texas.

Perhaps then the Irish could transfer into the SEC with Kansas? and the B1G at 11 could take all 9 of the AAU schools in the PAC for 20.
Adios Amigo.

I think that it is mutual, Lance.

Penn State, Maryland and Rutgers are happy as h$ll in the Big Ten and Fox properties, not ESPN's properties. There is a GOR too, no?

I think it more likely that the Big Ten will pick off Southern Cal, Stanford and a couple of others, then wait to pick off the best of the ACC when possible.

(08-02-2021 05:16 AM)XLance Wrote:  Terry, I think the ACC has as much of Notre Dame as the need and more that it wants.

If ESPN could engineer, bankroll, facilitate Texas and Oklahoma's move to the SEC, what could they possible do to boost the ACC's value for the long term?
The mouse may be looking to pull a rabbit out of Mickey's hat by adding Penn State and any or all of West Virginia, Maryland or Rutgers to the ACC.
Impossible? I didn't think it was possible for the SEC to land both Oklahoma and Texas.

Perhaps then the Irish could transfer into the SEC with Kansas? and the B1G at 11 could take all 9 of the AAU schools in the PAC for 20.
Adios Amigo.

You want to go raid the B1G ... and your list has Rutgers in it.


F. See me after class.

(07-27-2021 01:55 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  Penn State and Notre Dame

(07-27-2021 02:12 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  We are already talking to ND and I doubt Penn State's President would take the call.

Penn State would take the call for an ACC with ND in it. Everyone involved would need to see the right numbers from ESPN, of course.