The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(10-07-2019 02:16 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:12 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Guys were held accountable for their actions in the cmu game (the whole team was forced to do extra work for the mistakes of a few). Seems like it paid off as the toledo game was very disciplined.

Well, you know, except for that completely unnecessary unsportsmanlike that handed them 7 points out of nothing.

Are we now holding Tim Lester personally accountable as a failure for not preventing every single personal foul penalty in every game? Can any football coach at any level high school or above pass that test?

This is what I was talking about, toxic fandom. Many complained about the penalties, the coach addresses it and the team has its most disciplined game by far this season, and it's still cited as a mortal failure.

My anonymous sources say Tim Lester went back in time and shot JFK.

(10-07-2019 02:16 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:12 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Guys were held accountable for their actions in the cmu game (the whole team was forced to do extra work for the mistakes of a few). Seems like it paid off as the toledo game was very disciplined.

Well, you know, except for that completely unnecessary unsportsmanlike that handed them 7 points out of nothing.

Yep, sh!t happens. It wasn't a trend vs Toledo though. Toledo has almost twice the as many penalty yards as we did.

(10-07-2019 02:38 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:16 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:12 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Guys were held accountable for their actions in the cmu game (the whole team was forced to do extra work for the mistakes of a few). Seems like it paid off as the toledo game was very disciplined.

Well, you know, except for that completely unnecessary unsportsmanlike that handed them 7 points out of nothing.

Are we now holding Tim Lester personally accountable as a failure for not preventing every single personal foul penalty in every game? Can any football coach at any level high school or above pass that test?

This is what I was talking about, toxic fandom. Many complained about the penalties, the coach addresses it and the team has its most disciplined game by far this season, and it's still cited as a mortal failure.

My anonymous sources say Tim Lester went back in time and shot JFK.

0-14 MSU
0-14 SU
0-14 Toledo

I hold Tim accountable for having his team prepared ... period.

(10-07-2019 02:38 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:16 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:12 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Guys were held accountable for their actions in the cmu game (the whole team was forced to do extra work for the mistakes of a few). Seems like it paid off as the toledo game was very disciplined.

Well, you know, except for that completely unnecessary unsportsmanlike that handed them 7 points out of nothing.

Are we now holding Tim Lester personally accountable as a failure for not preventing every single personal foul penalty in every game? Can any football coach at any level high school or above pass that test?

This is what I was talking about, toxic fandom. Many complained about the penalties, the coach addresses it and the team has its most disciplined game by far this season, and it's still cited as a mortal failure.

My anonymous sources say Tim Lester went back in time and shot JFK.

I agree it was better. I'm not sure about "very disciplined". There is a difference IMO between personal fouls, which happen every game while trying to make plays, and unsportsmanlike garbage after the whistle. And we could've been flagged on at least one more in that first half. It should not be difficult for the team to get through a game without taking an unsportsmanlike penalty.

And to take it in that spot magnifies it more. Certainly it isn't all Lester's fault. But to me that was glaring if we're going to talk about the team being disciplined.

(10-07-2019 02:38 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:16 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:12 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Guys were held accountable for their actions in the cmu game (the whole team was forced to do extra work for the mistakes of a few). Seems like it paid off as the toledo game was very disciplined.

Well, you know, except for that completely unnecessary unsportsmanlike that handed them 7 points out of nothing.

Are we now holding Tim Lester personally accountable as a failure for not preventing every single personal foul penalty in every game? Can any football coach at any level high school or above pass that test?

This is what I was talking about, toxic fandom. Many complained about the penalties, the coach addresses it and the team has its most disciplined game by far this season, and it's still cited as a mortal failure.

My anonymous sources say Tim Lester went back in time and shot JFK.

I thought I saw him on the Zapruder film. Finally, confirmation!

(10-07-2019 02:45 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:38 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:16 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:12 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Guys were held accountable for their actions in the cmu game (the whole team was forced to do extra work for the mistakes of a few). Seems like it paid off as the toledo game was very disciplined.

Well, you know, except for that completely unnecessary unsportsmanlike that handed them 7 points out of nothing.

Are we now holding Tim Lester personally accountable as a failure for not preventing every single personal foul penalty in every game? Can any football coach at any level high school or above pass that test?

This is what I was talking about, toxic fandom. Many complained about the penalties, the coach addresses it and the team has its most disciplined game by far this season, and it's still cited as a mortal failure.

My anonymous sources say Tim Lester went back in time and shot JFK.

0-21 MSU
0-21 SU
0-14 Toledo

I hold Tim accountable for having his team prepared ... period.

Fixed it for you.

(10-07-2019 02:48 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:38 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:16 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:12 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Guys were held accountable for their actions in the cmu game (the whole team was forced to do extra work for the mistakes of a few). Seems like it paid off as the toledo game was very disciplined.

Well, you know, except for that completely unnecessary unsportsmanlike that handed them 7 points out of nothing.

Are we now holding Tim Lester personally accountable as a failure for not preventing every single personal foul penalty in every game? Can any football coach at any level high school or above pass that test?

This is what I was talking about, toxic fandom. Many complained about the penalties, the coach addresses it and the team has its most disciplined game by far this season, and it's still cited as a mortal failure.

My anonymous sources say Tim Lester went back in time and shot JFK.

I agree it was better. I'm not sure about "very disciplined". There is a difference IMO between personal fouls, which happen every game while trying to make plays, and unsportsmanlike garbage after the whistle. And we could've been flagged on at least one more in that first half. It should not be difficult for the team to get through a game without taking an unsportsmanlike penalty.

And to take it in that spot magnifies it more. Certainly it isn't all Lester's fault. But to me that was glaring if we're going to talk about the team being disciplined.

The stats say glaring improvement penalty-wise, which is what you were talking about.

Fleck's teams had some pretty slow starts as well, we've definitely been a second half time for some time. If Fleck was so much more talented in team discipline, then why did those slow unprepared starts happen?

To be serious, I do agree slow starts are bad and Lester has said they need to be addressed, which they weren't against Toledo. It seems our defense takes a while to heat up.

Maybe it has to do with Bellamy (like Corey Davis) and teams running wacky game plans to stop us, forcing a time to adjust. Fleck would often say they would run weird stuff against us. However, I think it's a confidence issue. Maybe instead Lester should tell the team how much our opponents suck rather than instilling a healthy respect for them. There's no reason for this team with this talent to be tentative until they get going. Maybe they come out of the locker room too disciplined and not crazy enough.

Here's a meaningful suggestion: screw the stat book and take the ball to start the game. We have a good offense and a defense that starts slow, so set the tone with the ball in your best players' hands. Notice a trend here:

MON: The started, punted. Win
MSU: They started, TD. Loss
GAST: We started, TD. Win
CUSE: They started, TD. Loss
CMU: They started, INT. Win
TOL: They started, TD. Loss

Football's a confidence game, so screw the stats and let your stud RB set the tone, rather than ask your high risk/high reward defense to come up with a great stop.

(10-07-2019 02:42 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:16 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:12 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Guys were held accountable for their actions in the cmu game (the whole team was forced to do extra work for the mistakes of a few). Seems like it paid off as the toledo game was very disciplined.

Well, you know, except for that completely unnecessary unsportsmanlike that handed them 7 points out of nothing.

Yep, sh!t happens. It wasn't a trend vs Toledo though. Toledo has almost twice the as many penalty yards as we did.

It has been a trend all year.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/sta...lPenalties

(10-07-2019 03:29 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  Here's a meaningful suggestion: screw the stat book and take the ball to start the game. We have a good offense and a defense that starts slow, so set the tone with the ball in your best players' hands. Notice a trend here:

MON: The started, punted. Win
MSU: They started, TD. Loss
GAST: We started, TD. Win
CUSE: They started, TD. Loss
CMU: They started, INT. Win
TOL: They started, TD. Loss

Football's a confidence game, so screw the stats and let your stud RB set the tone, rather than ask your high risk/high reward defense to come up with a great stop.

I actually agree with this school of thought in this instance. Play to your strength, punch the opposition in the mouth early. Go up early and quiet the opponents crowd or get ours fired up & behind the team when we're home. Get started on the right foot & see what the defense can do when the opponent takes over on O.

(10-07-2019 03:29 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  Here's a meaningful suggestion: screw the stat book and take the ball to start the game. We have a good offense and a defense that starts slow, so set the tone with the ball in your best players' hands. Notice a trend here:

MON: The started, punted. Win
MSU: They started, TD. Loss
GAST: We started, TD. Win
CUSE: They started, TD. Loss
CMU: They started, INT. Win
TOL: They started, TD. Loss

Football's a confidence game, so screw the stats and let your stud RB set the tone, rather than ask your high risk/high reward defense to come up with a great stop.

Our STUD running back didn't do $h!t against Toledo until he finally decided on his own to kick it outside ad run 45yards for a TD...

This offense is starting to "dud" right in front of our eyes...

If we can't jam our running game up the middle without success we turn to trying to jack up deep passes to open it up... if both fail we FAIL. Rinse and repeat. Toledo basically showed everyone in the MAC how to disrupt our offense... and its sad how easy it is.

Hard to believe teams we play won't have an idea how to defend us, especially our strengths.

I guess flush you would like us to try to beat them left-handed by doing what we don't do well or fooling them with gimmicks-gadgets.

(10-07-2019 03:36 PM)RaybanBronco Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 03:29 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  Here's a meaningful suggestion: screw the stat book and take the ball to start the game. We have a good offense and a defense that starts slow, so set the tone with the ball in your best players' hands. Notice a trend here:

MON: The started, punted. Win
MSU: They started, TD. Loss
GAST: We started, TD. Win
CUSE: They started, TD. Loss
CMU: They started, INT. Win
TOL: They started, TD. Loss

Football's a confidence game, so screw the stats and let your stud RB set the tone, rather than ask your high risk/high reward defense to come up with a great stop.

I actually agree with this school of thought in this instance. Play to your strength, punch the opposition in the mouth early. Go up early and quiet the opponents crowd or get ours fired up & behind the team when we're home. Get started on the right foot & see what the defense can do when the opponent takes over on O.

I've never understood the conventional wisdom in deferring till halftime. Seems like you'd want to start with the ball so you can score first so the other team is chasing you. By the time halftime rolls around, the games is already half over and lot probably happened in the first half where it won't matter who starts with it after half.

I'd always take the ball first.

(10-07-2019 05:24 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Hard to believe teams we play won't have an idea how to defend us, especially our strengths.

I guess flush you would like us to try to beat them left-handed by doing what we don't do well or fooling them with gimmicks-gadgets.

You can be succesfull opening up the run without having to jack 30 yard down field pass plays. Even you are smarter than that.

We had Moore open all day and yet we kept running deep routes and trying to get Toledo over the top... WR's were getting separation but after how may attempts to you start realizing Wassink was having an off day and couldn't complete?

Oh... and nobody talks about this...

We have the ball with just over 3 minutes to go... 1st down... marching. And we try to take a shot at the endzone...

What happens if we complete that? Sure we tie it up.... but then toledo has ample time to just get it to field goal range.

Why the F don't we just dink and dunk our way inside the red zone and take our time? Tie it up and force OT...

Oh... and we haven't connected ALL day on a deep throw... so yep. Keep on trying that. Or keep on trying to let it open up while Jon tries to not get killed in teh back field and takes a HUGE sack forcing a LONG 3rd down play....

Just ridiculous.


Oh wait... maybe don't get down again 14-0 early in the 1st quarter.

Lester has yet to prove he and his staff can get this team prepared to open up on the road with any fire... against an opponent that the team apparently already fears...

You've already lost at that point.

(10-07-2019 05:47 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Lester has yet to prove he and his staff can get this team prepared to open up on the road with any fire... against an opponent that the team apparently already fears...

You've already lost at that point.

We've won several games on the road. Last year it was actually at home where we struggled. CMU and Akron the year before that as well.

(10-07-2019 05:53 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 05:47 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Lester has yet to prove he and his staff can get this team prepared to open up on the road with any fire... against an opponent that the team apparently already fears...

You've already lost at that point.

We've won several games on the road. Last year it was actually at home where we struggled. CMU and Akron the year before that as well.

BSU last year... wow. But i guess you could say the same thing as an EMU fan licking wounds from the CMU beat down last weekend... eh...

Bowl projections I've seen have WMU making it. That makes me a little more confident but a lot of football left to be played..

ESPN:
Boca Raton or Potato Bowl
Also WMU, CMU, UT (MAC Champion), and OH all making it.

CBS Sports:
Camellia Bowl
Also NIU, EMU, Miami, Ohio (MAC Champion), Buffalo all making it

(I really hope I didn't jinx us posting about bowls........)

(10-07-2019 05:47 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Lester has yet to prove he and his staff can get this team prepared to open up on the road with any fire... against an opponent that the team apparently already fears...

You've already lost at that point.

Agreed, the play calling was piss poor Offensively against Toledo. The previous regime was good with time possession and ball control. That is not an emphasis with the Lester staff.