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(10-05-2019 09:19 PM)WMU2013 Wrote:  With Saturday's loss, WMU falls to 0-8 in road games against teams with winning records during Lester's tenure.

https://www.mlive.com/broncos/2019/10/5-...oledo.html

For some reason we come out flat on the road. Especially against good teams. It’s killing us.

(10-05-2019 10:20 PM)RaybanBronco Wrote:  

(10-05-2019 09:19 PM)WMU2013 Wrote:  With Saturday's loss, WMU falls to 0-8 in road games against teams with winning records during Lester's tenure.

https://www.mlive.com/broncos/2019/10/5-...oledo.html

For some reason we come out flat on the road. Especially against good teams. It’s killing us.

Yes, this is a problem, at home against good teams as well. Thankfully this team can claw itself out of holes. I didn’t see this game, but they come out tense and make mistakes. I think it’s a confidence thing more than anything else. This team comes out guns blazing against less talented teams and puts them away. If they can figure it out they would win big games.

The 2nd half they were a whole different team. It's there, we just need to figure out how to come out from the get go.

Whatever they said, adjustments they made at half, the D was ballin in the 2nd half. Not thinking, just playing and minding their gaps for the most part.

edit: This is where a Fleckdashian usually chimes in and derides me for being an optimistic fan

Lester is 2-1/2 years into his into his head coaching regime at WMU -- I give him a half year because of the situation he was thrown into. We were on Toledo's doorstep from putting this game into OT -- AT TOLEDO. The defense stepped up big time in the second half -- the team, as a whole, outplayed Toledo in the second half.

My point? The team is improving and the future outlook looks great.

I attended the UM-Iowa game in Ann Arbor today. I would have preferred to attend the WMU-UT game but my brother-in-law, a huge Michigan fan, was in town. After the game, I thought about where our offense is versus Michigan. There is no comparison - we are much further ahead of UM AND MSU, offensively.

Lester needs time.

Quote:With Saturday's loss, WMU falls to 0-8 in road games against teams with winning records during Lester's tenure.

Butt, what does KB think?

UGH. I can't sleep.

To be more precise -- sone girl's sitting in my bed. I have NO IDEA who she is. It's not KB, I know that.

UGH. I'm still upset.

BTW: I need my website back up.

(10-05-2019 09:45 PM)Rasser Wrote:  

(10-05-2019 09:37 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Christ. All this talk about Fleck, as if we weren't talking about setting higher standards before him.

There was a loud contingent of posters on this forum hoping to raise our expectations long before Fleck was hired. We felt that it wasn't unreasonable to compete consistently for the MAC West and show up in bowl games.

Think we don't know a trip to the Cotton Bowl was an anomaly? Please! Of course we knew, which is why I couldn't understand why so-called fans were still dogging the coach that entire year.

We should never settle for a .500 program. We shouldn't settle for mediocrity. And we shouldn't feel bad when calling it out.

That's not to say this season hasn't progressed exactly as I expected (check the predictions thread). Still hoping for 8 wins and a bowl win.

Quit brow beating posters on here as if your constant whining about us not being "great" makes you care more than others and that proves it for us to see.

It. Does. Not.

I hated Fleck, but I wanted him to win. I predicted the undefeated regular season and his backers whined and cried when I did that because they thought I was setting unreasonable expectations. I pulled for us to win, and I hoped he would leave, knowing he would if he did win big.


Win win.

Now you guys (The same Fleckdashians) act like you're entitled to that type of season and if you aren't "seeing it" you can call anyone out for being a fan and optimistic. It rings hollow.

Amazing. Literally nothing you just said is true.

Same old DB.

(10-05-2019 11:43 PM)BroncoMD Wrote:  Lester is 2-1/2 years into his into his head coaching regime at WMU -- I give him a half year because of the situation he was thrown into. We were on Toledo's doorstep from putting this game into OT -- AT TOLEDO. The defense stepped up big time in the second half -- the team, as a whole, outplayed Toledo in the second half.

My point? The team is improving and the future outlook looks great.

I attended the UM-Iowa game in Ann Arbor today. I would have preferred to attend the WMU-UT game but my brother-in-law, a huge Michigan fan, was in town. After the game, I thought about where our offense is versus Michigan. There is no comparison - we are much further ahead of UM AND MSU, offensively.

Lester needs time.

Finish w/ just 7 wins and I'll give him another year. Anything less (6 or less) and it's just a bad hire.
(Then again, you don't want to get into a cycle of firing and hiring, firing and hiring, and not letting the guy build a program, so maybe that's not such a good idea? IDK. 6-6, 7-6, 6-6 speaks for itself, I guess)

Also, nice seeing the Defense step up. I've been saying for a few weeks now, they're better then last year's defense. Either that, or Toledo's offense is just bad and they'll get upset a couple times.

(10-06-2019 02:12 AM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:With Saturday's loss, WMU falls to 0-8 in road games against teams with winning records during Lester's tenure.

Butt, what does KB think?

UGH. I can't sleep.

To be more precise -- sone girl's sitting in my bed. I have NO IDEA who she is. It's not KB, I know that.

UGH. I'm still upset.

BTW: I need my website back up.

My guess is a lot of teams have abysmal records against teams with winning records on the road. Also Consider 4 (if not more) or so of those are ranked P5 teams.

Quote:Fleck took over a stagnant program that went 4-8 the year before. Lester took over a rising program that went 13-1 with a MACC. That of course isn't going to be the norm, but it would be silly to pretend it doesn't help shape expectations.

We would have hit a very solid dip if the Minnesota debacle didn't happen where they needed a new coach & Fleck stayed for a few more years.

Have the HC leave, the dip, no matter who comes in, will be even greater.

That said, going 6-6 and then 7-5 -- and what looks to be roughly the same this year -- would have likely seen things iron out at least somewhat better. More like going 7-5, 8-4 leading up to this year with 9/10W expectations (despite tough schedule).

Quote:We should never settle for a .500 program. We shouldn't settle for mediocrity. And we shouldn't feel bad when calling it out.

We shouldn't -- and nobody does (well, except may EMU historically would have been happy about that). But that's not what this is about. It's about what to be WTF about VS not so WTF about. What is one's mindset on their Realistic Expectations going into things?

Should I expect us to be 13-0 every season, battling it out for the NY bowl? Absolutely Not.
Should I expect us to be 6-6 every season with an easy schedule, 5-7 on a tough schedule? Nope.

Should I expect us to be 6-6 sometimes, over a span of time? Yep. Depends what's going on leading into said season. Many times No, sometimes Yes.

With hiring Lester, what is going to make me go from disappointed-but-not-surprising to WTF?! Being below .500 when there's not a slew of key injuries in a reloading year. Or being 7-5 when it's an "our year" situation like 2016, stacked to the hilt without a harsh schedule.

(10-06-2019 06:20 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:Fleck took over a stagnant program that went 4-8 the year before. Lester took over a rising program that went 13-1 with a MACC. That of course isn't going to be the norm, but it would be silly to pretend it doesn't help shape expectations.

We would have hit a very solid dip if the Minnesota debacle didn't happen where they needed a new coach & Fleck stayed for a few more years.

Have the HC leave, the dip, no matter who comes in, will be even greater.

That said, going 6-6 and then 7-5 -- and what looks to be roughly the same this year -- would have likely seen things iron out at least somewhat better. More like going 7-5, 8-4 leading up to this year with 9/10W expectations (despite tough schedule).

Quote:We should never settle for a .500 program. We shouldn't settle for mediocrity. And we shouldn't feel bad when calling it out.

We shouldn't -- and nobody does (well, except may EMU historically would have been happy about that). But that's not what this is about. It's about what to be WTF about VS not so WTF about. What is one's mindset on their Realistic Expectations going into things?

Should I expect us to be 13-0 every season, battling it out for the NY bowl? Absolutely Not.
Should I expect us to be 6-6 every season with an easy schedule, 5-7 on a tough schedule? Nope.

Should I expect us to be 6-6 sometimes, over a span of time? Yep. Depends what's going on leading into said season. Many times No, sometimes Yes.

With hiring Lester, what is going to make me go from disappointed-but-not-surprising to WTF?! Being below .500 when there's not a slew of key injuries in a reloading year. Or being 7-5 when it's an "our year" situation like 2016, stacked to the hilt without a harsh schedule.

2010 to 2016 felt similar for Toledo fans. The league cream of the crop was NIU, Ohio and BGSU. Even with plenty of wins, dwelling in 7-10 win land was tough. In 2017 we broke through and won a title, but graduated a lot. We accepted the 2018 team which had a good offense but sucked on D, because it was a transition year . Now with a mostly young team, the attitude has changed again and Toledo is gelling. The program is thriving. It's the 6-6 CMU land that's even rougher than 7-10 win not championship land... So be greatful. Until you don't see yourself getting out of this spot. Re-load. Suck for a year. And get a staff that can win these games.

I think we all like the guy, regardless of how we feel about his predecessor.

The issue most of us (I think) have is that he hasn't been able to deliver. This started with hiring Cubit retreads. If there was a scenario in which Ed Pinkham and the defensive staff could have remained in place, I think that would have been a lot better situation.

We all want the guy to succeed, but his seemingly ambivalent personality after losing winnable games is what is starting to wear thin on some of us.

From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

I sat next to two different player’s parents who said the opposite. So there’s that.

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Have heard this as well but can only rely so much on hearsay.

I don't think sideline demeanor matters in and of itself but combined with the seeming lack of discipline and subsequent lack of accountability (not talking about screaming at guys) it just doesn't seem to me that he has the makeup of a great head coach.

I do think he calls a good game as an OC.

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Was talking with a previous player from both regimes... all I’ll
say... I’ll also say I hope what you are saying is true...

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Guys were held accountable for their actions in the cmu game (the whole team was forced to do extra work for the mistakes of a few). Seems like it paid off as the toledo game was very disciplined.

(10-07-2019 02:12 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 02:00 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

Practices look essentially the same to me. They seem to talk about accountability an awful lot.

Guys were held accountable for their actions in the cmu game (the whole team was forced to do extra work for the mistakes of a few). Seems like it paid off as the toledo game was very disciplined.

Well, you know, except for that completely unnecessary unsportsmanlike that handed them 7 points out of nothing.

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

"From reliable sources" likely means you pulled that from your azz because it is a bunch of crap.

(10-07-2019 02:20 PM)GullLake Wrote:  

(10-07-2019 12:19 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  From reliable sources... PJ ran an incredibly tight ship based on DAILY accountability. Lester not so much. Apparently practices are less structured and personal accountability isn’t stressed as much.

So... that sucks.

"From reliable sources" likely means you pulled that from your azz because it is a bunch of crap.

In all my years posting here do I ever play that card? Why would I do this out of the blue? I have NO agenda and I want TL to succeed.

I hear these things and I pass them on.

Another thing.

It takes time for a TEAM to gel under a new regime... especially if the new regime is not connected to the previous. There will he those who still have some sort of loyalty built in for the previous staff... so new staff has to work harder over time to get everyone on board.

It’s about creating a SYSTEM that everyone buys into. 2016... everyone was willing to run into gunfire for PJ. Do we see that with this team?

Next year to me is the official start of the Lester go big or go home tenure!