(01-03-2019 10:34 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Gary, I don't disagree that it can be debated. But, let others do that. When you "self proclaim" you lose credibility IMO and come off as an insecure A-hole!

Agree 100%, and this has been one of the major knocks on Lebron since he came up.

Kobe was never like that, and neither was Jordan. Two recent guys who really dominated their peers consistently. Some of the blame (certainly a small portion at max because it's really a personality issue) can be due to the rise and popularity of social media during Lebron's career.

LeBron has made a habit of saying really dumb things that show he doesn't "get it" most of the time.

He once said he has never played on a "super team", when asked about the Warriors. Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh and Ray Allen should have all taken turns punching him in the face for saying that.

LeBron has constantly complained about the talent around him his entire career. And he does so even though he's basically had GM powers at each of his last 2 stops.

Did you guys also know that LeBron basically gave HIMSELF the "King James" nickname? He would often yell that in HS after a big dunk.

You can't give yourself your own nickname.

Basically I don't get why we're supposed to love this guy. He comes off as highly unlikable. Jordan, for all of his faults, at least had charisma and made watching him a ton of fun. LeBron doesn't have that, and it takes away from the "greatness" you need to be the absolute best at what you do.

(01-03-2019 10:24 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Fun topic, and I'm with the Jordan > Lebron camp.

That being said, this thread is being moved to our OFF TOPIC forum.

MJ is the GOAT, IMO, but I also really enjoy watching LeBron play basketball (for the most part). The whining bothers me, and so does his soccer-esque reaction to injuries. I try to avoid the comparisons and enjoy LeBron for what he is; I certainly loved watching MJ play. I get frustrated, mainly with my nephews, when they discount what LeBron had in Miami. There's more to the argument than the Finals record, but there is an unquantifiable difference between the two. As Nation said, MJ's competitive drive is second to none.

Good interview from Ray Allen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GZCjhl5tv8

(01-03-2019 10:49 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Did you guys also know that LeBron basically gave HIMSELF the "King James" nickname? He would often yell that in HS after a big dunk.

You can't give yourself your own nickname.

Basically I don't get why we're supposed to love this guy. He comes off as highly unlikable. Jordan, for all of his faults, at least had charisma and made watching him a ton of fun. LeBron doesn't have that, and it takes away from the "greatness" you need to be the absolute best at what you do.

I hated MJ during his prime because he always murdered my team. But, i had a high level of respect for him. All good points about the history with LEbron, he lost me at the nationally televised decision "I'm taking my talents to south beach". Lebron's book isn't written completely yet, as 08 mentioned, the tail end of his career could definitely effect negatively a lot of the numbers we use for cooperators.

I enjoy watching Lebron play basketball. He was given a gift from God in terms of size, and athleticism and achieved the rest through hard work. No denying that. However, as a personality and a guy that can't keep his mouth shut about things he's ignorant in (politics, social science issues) he's beyond annoying. I find a lot of his intellect off the court as misinformed. So I'm just relegating myself to enjoying his basketball talent for what it is.

(01-03-2019 11:00 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Good interview from Ray Allen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GZCjhl5tv8

That's a helluva good interview find. And should help settle the debate that MJ > LeBron. For now, lol.

(01-03-2019 11:27 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  I enjoy watching Lebron play basketball. He was given a gift from God in terms of size, and athleticism and achieved the rest through hard work. No denying that. However, as a personality and a guy that can't keep his mouth shut about things he's ignorant in (politics, social science issues) he's beyond annoying. I find a lot of his intellect off the court as misinformed. So I'm just relegating myself to enjoying his basketball talent for what it is.

Agree with all of this... The off the court stuff really shouldn't factor into the "GOAT" debate anyways, but naturally it does. MJ wasn't a Saint by any means, and benefited by not playing in the age of social media.

(01-03-2019 12:21 PM)Gary Miller Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 11:27 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  I enjoy watching Lebron play basketball. He was given a gift from God in terms of size, and athleticism and achieved the rest through hard work. No denying that. However, as a personality and a guy that can't keep his mouth shut about things he's ignorant in (politics, social science issues) he's beyond annoying. I find a lot of his intellect off the court as misinformed. So I'm just relegating myself to enjoying his basketball talent for what it is.

Agree with all of this... The off the court stuff really shouldn't factor into the "GOAT" debate anyways, but naturally it does. MJ wasn't a Saint by any means, and benefited by not playing in the age of social media.

and he just didn't say dumb things in interviews. Lebron just continues to put his foot in his mouth over and over and over again! the Slave mentality comment about NFL owners, The comments about having no use for "white people", talking about himself being the Goat, i could go on and on. Honestly, i'd compare him to say AROD and Bonds in baseball. Two of the greatest hitters ever, but(roids aside) they were remarkably unlikable guys. Therefore, they never got the benefit of the doubt.

Allen is a great interview, for some reason i have a difficult time taking him seriously with that jean shirt on
hahahaha

Many just like to count rings in determining who is the GOAT. But that would make Russell the GOAT, hands down. That is a factor for me when it comes to Jordan vs James. But there are many other things. The thing that most people don't consider is the fact that Jordan never gave up in a game. LeBron has. I.E., his first playoffs with Cleveland. He absolutely quit right in the middle of a game. In my book, that is something that separates Jordan from him. Jordan would will himself and his team to victory in many occasions.

(01-03-2019 01:37 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  Many just like to count rings in determining who is the GOAT. But that would make Russell the GOAT, hands down. That is a factor for me when it comes to Jordan vs James. But there are many other things. The thing that most people don't consider is the fact that Jordan never gave up in a game. LeBron has. I.E., his first playoffs with Cleveland. He absolutely quit right in the middle of a game. In my book, that is something that separates Jordan from him. Jordan would will himself and his team to victory in many occasions.

He also quit in the ECF against Boston, right before he bolted for Miami. As an NBA fan, that was really disappointing.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics...goat-boast

Interesting quote from Danny Ainge in regards to Lebron's "GOAT" comments.

(01-03-2019 01:37 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  Many just like to count rings in determining who is the GOAT. But that would make Russell the GOAT, hands down.

It would also put the following players in the Top 20:

Sam Jones (10 rings)
Tom Heinsohn (8)
K.C. Jones (8)
Tom "Satch" Sanders (8)
Jon Loscutoff (7)
Frank Ramsey (7)

While putting Charles Barkley (0) and Karl Malone (0) firmly out of any top 20 discussion.

(01-03-2019 02:47 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 01:37 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  Many just like to count rings in determining who is the GOAT. But that would make Russell the GOAT, hands down.

It would also put the following players in the Top 20:

Sam Jones (10 rings)
Tom Heinsohn (8)
K.C. Jones (8)
Tom "Satch" Sanders (8)
Jon Loscutoff (7)
Frank Ramsey (7)

While putting Charles Barkley (0) and Karl Malone (0) firmly out of any top 20 discussion.

Can't forget "Big Shot Bob" has 7 rings as well. 2 with Houston, 3 with the Lakers, and 2 with the Spurs.

(01-03-2019 03:16 PM)Gary Miller Wrote:  Can't forget "Big Shot Bob" has 7 rings as well. 2 with Houston, 3 with the Lakers, and 2 with the Spurs.

Yeah, didn't want to include him on that list, because I actually would put him in the Top 75 or 100 NBA Players of All-Time.

Havlicek has 8 rings as well.

(01-03-2019 03:32 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 03:16 PM)Gary Miller Wrote:  Can't forget "Big Shot Bob" has 7 rings as well. 2 with Houston, 3 with the Lakers, and 2 with the Spurs.

Yeah, didn't want to include him on that list, because I actually would put him in the Top 75 or 100 NBA Players of All-Time.

Havlicek has 8 rings as well.

I got you. That's an interesting take on Horry. Just off the top of my head I would consider Sam Jones a better NBA player than him. However, that is a debate for a different day lol...