Put the program out for bids to Blue Apron, Walmart, Amazon, Aldi etc. Separate bids for each state which will greatly reduce shipping costs. Anything that needs refrigeration or be frozen must be purchased in a store, so everything isnt shipped by parcel.

If you think theft is bad now. Wait until thieves know that on the 15th. Everybody gets their boxes left on the front porch.

(02-14-2018 12:32 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Not one of those has anything to do with what we are talking about

Look I made a simple statement. That if there is "dignity" in someone handing you a cash card then there is "dignity" in them handing you a box of food.

IOW... Beggars can't be choosers.

You went all apeshaq crazy talking about that attitude was the equivalent of wanting a toltarian government.

Take your straw men down the slippery slope with someone else.

(02-14-2018 01:15 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Common sense will tell you it's going to cost at the very least $5 dollars a box to process and then shipping cost...my guess well over $5

Citation needed... Amazon is offering looking to free food delivery to prime members. The US mail *ALREADY* delivers stuff every day.

Quote:Now I'm finished

son, on this one you were finished the minute you opened your mouth and started to spout of without reading what I said, for what it was.

(02-14-2018 06:59 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  If you think theft is bad now. Wait until thieves know that on the 15th. Everybody gets their boxes left on the front porch.

He's right, you know.

I'm still for not changing the actual benefit per se.

If we want to save $$$ then the real pay-off is to move recipients off SNAP and into personal productivity.

All recipients should be assigned a rep who will help them develop an education/career plan.

Once the plan has been completed the recipient should be able to get a job and move off government assistance.

The way to decrease costs is to decrease the number of people participating in the program. Move them from government dependency to self-sufficiency.


Of course, it the recipient is verified as truly disabled then there could be a different course of action.

(02-14-2018 11:01 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 06:59 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  If you think theft is bad now. Wait until thieves know that on the 15th. Everybody gets their boxes left on the front porch.

He's right, you know.

Heck,yeah, he's right.

(02-14-2018 11:00 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 01:15 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Common sense will tell you it's going to cost at the very least $5 dollars a box to process and then shipping cost...my guess well over $5

Citation needed... Amazon is offering looking to free food delivery to prime members. The US mail *ALREADY* delivers stuff every day.

Quote:Now I'm finished

son, on this one you were finished the minute you opened your mouth and started to spout of without reading what I said, for what it was.

So you draw me back.....

You really don't seem to know much about USPS. While I'n sure the US Government will get the discount rate for bulk shipping....

you can bet your ass these boxes will not be shipped that way. There will be a cheaper service than USPS. Surely you didn't think USPS was shipping these big heavy boxes for nothing?

USPS is an independent agency of the United States federal government.

But then again...you really didn't have any ideal what a grant was and I'm 100% positive you don't have a freaking clue about how this program will be handled.

It will be farmed out to one or more bidders and for you to think those private companies would get to use the US Mail free of charge. Well I just shake my head at that.

Let me finish by repeating ...your beer vs a coke is still not close to be in context. Don't take it so personal, that you don't really have a clue about how government works. Or how private business works off of 10s of billion dollar US Government contracts..

I will LOL at the thought of you thinking USPS was going to ship these at no cost.

Now you can have the last word since you let this get personal, to you

At the end of the day there are more pressing and important issues that our President needs to address IMO.

(02-14-2018 12:23 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Let me finish by repeating ...your beer vs a coke is still not close to be in context. Don't take it so personal, that you don't really have a clue about how government works.

Appeal to authority fallacy... Wow you really are full of it today... or is it full of yourself, it's hard to tell given the shaq that's coming out of your mouth.

Quote:Or how private business works off of 10s of billion dollar US Government contracts..

As someone who has worked on Both ends of government contracts (govt for the Army and private sector for major providers), and big ones at that.... I bet I have an idea of how they work.

But see, I'm not going to rely on that experience... You said it will cost x$... well son, back it up...

Quote:I will LOL at the thought of you thinking USPS was going to ship these at no cost.

And I LOL at you injecting "no cost" into what I said when it was not there.

Quote:Now you can have the last word since you let this get personal, to you

I did let it get personal, you're right. Your stupid shtick completely misrepresented what I said and you've done nothing but spit out fallacies in an attempt to get away from that instead of just saying that you misread me.

You're still fighting a scare crow... Because I never said *THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA* I merely said try to see it from the perspective that "giving you a box of food" is not the same as "telling you what you can and can't eat".

For some reason your panties got all wadded up and you went off hunting straw men.

(02-14-2018 12:23 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 11:00 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 01:15 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Common sense will tell you it's going to cost at the very least $5 dollars a box to process and then shipping cost...my guess well over $5

Citation needed... Amazon is offering looking to free food delivery to prime members. The US mail *ALREADY* delivers stuff every day.

Quote:Now I'm finished

son, on this one you were finished the minute you opened your mouth and started to spout of without reading what I said, for what it was.

So you draw me back.....

You really don't seem to know much about USPS. While I'n sure the US Government will get the discount rate for bulk shipping....

you can bet your ass these boxes will not be shipped that way. There will be a cheaper service than USPS. Surely you didn't think USPS was shipping these big heavy boxes for nothing?

USPS is an independent agency of the United States federal government.

But then again...you really didn't have any ideal what a grant was and I'm 100% positive you don't have a freaking clue about how this program will be handled.

It will be farmed out to one or more bidders and for you to think those private companies would get to use the US Mail free of charge. Well I just shake my head at that.

Let me finish by repeating ...your beer vs a coke is still not close to be in context. Don't take it so personal, that you don't really have a clue about how government works. Or how private business works off of 10s of billion dollar US Government contracts..

I will LOL at the thought of you thinking USPS was going to ship these at no cost.

Now you can have the last word since you let this get personal, to you

USPS only makes about a dollar on every large Amazon package they deliver. They are way cheaper than UPS or Fed Ex. If this program gets started, the government will either use USPS or an independent contractor (I've seen those in my neighborhood delivering Blue Apron).

Actually though USPS might work out because I'll assume a lot of people getting these SNAP boxes wouldn't be in high income areas where the mail folks are delivering many packages on a daily basis. There is no way any of the big 3 delivery services could handle significant new volume on a heavy parcel area, but the inner-city delivery routes don't get nearly the parcel volume that richer neighborhoods do.

If this happens the company that gets the contract might go with USPS but I don't see it for one of the reasons you said.

These will be going to a lot of low income housing, especially large cities. We are taking 60,70,90 % of neighborhoods getting heavy boxes of food, twice a month. With that you are talking 3 to 20 stories building. And even the low income housing (houses) there's usually mail box units that only holds a 8 or 10 inch by 4 inch box.

So this will not be part of every day mail carriers load...impossible

Lets say in these areas you mostly have families of 3 to on up in people. I'm sure these are the ones getting top dollar in stamps. So lets say you have a small 100 unit building and the average is $450 a month. So twice a month each unit is getting a box of food valued at $180. We are talking the staples...can good, rice, milk, eggs, can meat, flour, meal (5 pound each) juice many other items. You don't get that in 1 box or 2 boxes. If you can get it in 2 boxes we are talking boxes with some weight.

There is no way USPS takes that door to door...if they do they need to create a whole new unit with 1000s of trucks which means 1000s of truck drivers and then 1000s of loaders. We are talking about trucks that are refrigerated.

This is just two of Chicago's housing projects and I bet there's 10 more just as large. One is large apt building the other town houses. Now tell me how those thousands of box gets to all the units in these apts? How many trucks and people would it take to just service one of those tall buildings? Then you leave those boxes of food by the front door if no one is home? You talking a all day job for 50 people just for one building and that's if they got free control over the elevators.

Look this is just a guess on my part but you are not getting the same discount as Amazon. We are talking about more planes needed, more trucks, more workers, and not small numbers...we are talking a lot of weight in good size packing crate type boxes. To me it looks like billions of dollars being spend up front just on people, trucks, planes, forklifts, back braces and 100s of other things.
I see more of a premium charge instead of huge discounts on bulk shipping. One other thing we are talking some perishable items.

I personally don't see this happening, not with door delivery. We are talking 12 billion a year in savings...that's the government est. that's only a 18% savings. Once you contract this out I see a huge loss. Not savings. But saving or loss I don't see a way over the door delivery.

But it should add 1000s of new jobs but then again if stores are no longer getting those dollars spent locally you are taking billions out of those stores....lost of jobs.

(02-14-2018 11:01 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 06:59 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  If you think theft is bad now. Wait until thieves know that on the 15th. Everybody gets their boxes left on the front porch.

He's right, you know.

Lots of these “services” will be coming in via drone, and can be put in your fridge for you.

As all I’ve said, this day and age it could made work.

I don't know about you but I personally don't want drones carrying 50 pound packages flying above me. Maybe 1 pound and less, but mini-fridges? No thank you. And not that I'm condoning it, but if faced with the possibility of stealing a package of canned goods or a drone, I'll take the drone. A lot of those drones flying into the poorer neighborhoods aren't coming back intact.

Good point on the large apartment complexes WKUYG. I sent you a PM.

(02-15-2018 04:48 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I don't know about you but I personally don't want drones carrying 50 pound packages flying above me. Maybe 1 pound and less, but mini-fridges? No thank you. And not that I'm condoning it, but if faced with the possibility of stealing a package of canned goods or a drone, I'll take the drone. A lot of those drones flying into the poorer neighborhoods aren't coming back intact.

Good point on the large apartment complexes WKUYG. I sent you a PM.

Not saying I’m in favor of it, no way in hell Im giving someone else a key to my house and access to my fridge.

Just saying it’s here. It’s a thing.

Ups/usps/ fedex need start looking at new models.

Amazon will soon rule the world...

(02-15-2018 05:26 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 04:48 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I don't know about you but I personally don't want drones carrying 50 pound packages flying above me. Maybe 1 pound and less, but mini-fridges? No thank you. And not that I'm condoning it, but if faced with the possibility of stealing a package of canned goods or a drone, I'll take the drone. A lot of those drones flying into the poorer neighborhoods aren't coming back intact.

Good point on the large apartment complexes WKUYG. I sent you a PM.

Not saying I’m in favor of it, no way in hell Im giving someone else a key to my house and access to my fridge.

Just saying it’s here. It’s a thing.

Ups/usps/ fedex need start looking at new models.

Amazon will soon rule the world...

If they keep marching towards brick and mortar stores, they're going to end up getting themselves broken up by the feds.

(02-13-2018 03:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:54 PM)VA49er Wrote:  lol, I drove to my neighbors house yesterday and didn't see anyone speeding. I guess no one speeds. Look, it happens, a lot. It's natural for folks to take advantage of any system. I don't blame them, I blame the system.

Then stop bringing up personal examples. I was simply playing along. No one denied there is abuse.

Having food stamps doesn't mean you can't have other income or buy cigarettes and beer. Most of those people have a small additional income and buy things THEY WANT with that money. That is a basic American freedom.

What you just described is the lack of personal responsibility. If someone has enough money to buy alcohol/cigarettes, etc then they have enough money to buy food. The REST of of us should not be paying for their food while they buy their "fun" stuff.

(02-16-2018 07:58 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:54 PM)VA49er Wrote:  lol, I drove to my neighbors house yesterday and didn't see anyone speeding. I guess no one speeds. Look, it happens, a lot. It's natural for folks to take advantage of any system. I don't blame them, I blame the system.

Then stop bringing up personal examples. I was simply playing along. No one denied there is abuse.

Having food stamps doesn't mean you can't have other income or buy cigarettes and beer. Most of those people have a small additional income and buy things THEY WANT with that money. That is a basic American freedom.

What you just described is the lack of personal responsibility. If someone has enough money to buy alcohol/cigarettes, etc then they have enough money to buy food. The REST of of us should not be paying for their food while they buy their "fun" stuff.

Actually, that is not how the system works at all. A high percentage of the people on SNAP have income, their income simply falls below the bar which allows them to receive benefits.

People should absolutely be able to use the SNAP for food and use what few spare dollars they have on whatever they choose. If they want to blow it on a pack of cigs, or take their wife/kids out to a movie, ice cream or whatever they choose that is still their right (and it should be).

(02-16-2018 08:32 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 07:58 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:54 PM)VA49er Wrote:  lol, I drove to my neighbors house yesterday and didn't see anyone speeding. I guess no one speeds. Look, it happens, a lot. It's natural for folks to take advantage of any system. I don't blame them, I blame the system.

Then stop bringing up personal examples. I was simply playing along. No one denied there is abuse.

Having food stamps doesn't mean you can't have other income or buy cigarettes and beer. Most of those people have a small additional income and buy things THEY WANT with that money. That is a basic American freedom.

What you just described is the lack of personal responsibility. If someone has enough money to buy alcohol/cigarettes, etc then they have enough money to buy food. The REST of of us should not be paying for their food while they buy their "fun" stuff.

Actually, that is NOT how the system works at all. A high percentage of the people on SNAP have income, their income simply falls below the bar which allows them to receive benefits.

If that's the case then the income should be spent wisely on needed items so my point still stands. I all for helping folks that need it, I just don't like subsidizing those abusing the system. Like I've mentioned before, I don't totally blame the people, I blame the system and those that allow the system to be manipulated.

(02-16-2018 08:38 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 08:32 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 07:58 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:54 PM)VA49er Wrote:  lol, I drove to my neighbors house yesterday and didn't see anyone speeding. I guess no one speeds. Look, it happens, a lot. It's natural for folks to take advantage of any system. I don't blame them, I blame the system.

Then stop bringing up personal examples. I was simply playing along. No one denied there is abuse.

Having food stamps doesn't mean you can't have other income or buy cigarettes and beer. Most of those people have a small additional income and buy things THEY WANT with that money. That is a basic American freedom.

What you just described is the lack of personal responsibility. If someone has enough money to buy alcohol/cigarettes, etc then they have enough money to buy food. The REST of of us should not be paying for their food while they buy their "fun" stuff.

Actually, that is NOT how the system works at all. A high percentage of the people on SNAP have income, their income simply falls below the bar which allows them to receive benefits.

If that's the case then the income should be spent wisely on needed items so my point still stands. I all for helping folks that need it, I just don't like subsidizing those abusing the system. Like I've mentioned before, I don't totally blame the people, I blame the system and those that allow the system to be manipulated.

A lot of people do spend it wisely, some abuse it. None of the alternatives so far fix the abuse problems, some actually open a lot of new doors for the abusers.

It's designed to supplement people in low-income households based on their actual income.