(02-13-2018 03:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 02:55 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 02:48 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  And before the libs come scrambling in and say "I thought Republicans didn't like the government telling people what to do?!?!?! Hypocrites!!!"
...

I don’t think the government should EVER force ANYONE on things such as the foods they eat, churches they attend, schools they go to, etc. People should be allowed to have a choice, make their own decisions, and live with the consequences.

The only thing about food stamps is - you’re getting money from the government. They are providing the money, they get a say in what you get.

I look at it like this: When we received a grant from the federal government there were often times requirements that we buy specific products unless we could legitimately justify buying another. Food Stamps should be no different. If they can legitimately justify deviation so be it, but if Uncle Sam is paying the fiddler Uncle Sam gets to pick the jigs that are played.

I think buying a steak once and a while instead of 100 boxes of Roman noodles still qualifies as spending the money on food.

People hear a few stories of extremely stupid cases and then project that out to everyone, then get outraged and decide its better to strip ALL these people of all choice within in the program. Now the government has the power over what these people eat specifically simply because they are the poorest Americans.

Its also a straw man because its not the only way to improve the program, its just the most restrictive and controlling via big government.

You opened the door to big government when you went on the program to begin with. If you don't want the government to have a say on what food you eat then don't ask for assistance. It's literally that simple.

(02-13-2018 03:19 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Here's the problem with that list of food or any list....

the government is going to end up spending twice to three times as much for a can of corn as you get at discount market. They should be paying 1/3 of the cost because of the amount they buy. But we all know that's not going to be the case.

NOTHING the government buys, even in large qualities, are cheaper. Add in the cost of shipping and packaging and you will easily spend more money. The amount of people processing the people is not going down. Add in those taking off the top in the huge warehouses and the jobs to do this work....

it's costing more

If the government does this any labor job should have to be offered to a person getting this before anyone else. But in the end we are going to add another government program with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of government jobs

Conservatives and libertarians arguing big government can do this more efficiently and save money.

Strange times we live in.

Instead, the government will indeed spend 3 times as much on the food, plus create a whole new bloated big government department, plus it's likely a much higher % of the food is wasted and not eaten as opposed to the current system.

They create a whole new and much larger mess than we have now.

(02-13-2018 03:13 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  If you dont think EBT abuse is rampant, I'll gladly give you the location of a kroger store in mid-town Memphis where you will likely get an EBT offer in the parking lot, 2 or 3 in the store, then another in the parking lot when you leave.

EBT's are atms for drugs.

Cutting back on the amount loaded on an EBT, and sending proper food, is the way to go.

How many of those did you report? I bet you got your food, went to your car and not once called this in. If you had you might have stopped this or cut it down.

If you see someone stealing your neighbors tools....

you call the cops or at least go to the cops and give a statement. Don't complain about a problem when a call or trip to the police might have help stop it. Or get a few off the system.

I agree before you say it...it shouldn't be your job. But seeing a crime committed and not reporting it is not the way to fix a problem. Because for every 15 to 20 you see abusing the system...80 to 85 others are not.

(02-13-2018 03:19 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:05 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 12:49 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  There is an argument to be made that...yes...those who give charity do indeed have a right to dictate what that charity is.

You are poor. I feel bad. I give you a pizza. You get mad and claim that you want a steak and that I have no RIGHT to dictate your food choices. Uh, sorry buddy.

That said, you also have a danger of government choosing people's diets, their exercise programs, and exchanging food for "proper" political behavior. Creating two-classes of rights. Food as a means of control.





Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Yea, that’s known as North Korea.

I don’t think that’s what’s being suggested here.

Sounds like once a month, twice a month a box of dry stalled arrives. Probably include minute rice, breads, peanut butter, cheese slices, maybe milk, cereals etc. near everyone has refrigeration of some sort, and most products have a couple weeks shelf life.

This then frees up the other welfare credits or monies for other items the people would like. If they are otherwise responsible and stretch that dollar, then a steak or pot roast here and there I have no problem with.

It’s a floor, not necessarily a ceiling.

Here's the problem with that list of food or any list....

the government is going to end up spending twice to three times as much for a can of corn as you get at discount market. They should be paying 1/3 of the cost because of the amount they buy. But we all know that's not going to be the case.

NOTHING the government buys, even in large qualities, are cheaper. Add in the cost of shipping and packaging and you will easily spend more money. The amount of people processing the people is not going down. Add in those taking off the top in the huge warehouses and the jobs to do this work....

it's costing more

If the government does this any labor job should have to be offered to a person getting this before anyone else. But in the end we are going to add another government program with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of government jobs

All valid concerns.

But there is also an issue that we throw away tens of millions of pounds of foods and grains every year around this joint. This could be a wide and varying selection of shelf life stuff that is surplus or specifically set aside for this distribution.

Most packing and boxing could likely be automated to some degree, and tossing 8 more boxes in the mail truck for that particular route isn’t going to be all that.

As I said, I think this “idea” has some merit as a floor. Those truly in need/ desperate could count on the knowledge that on the dayX they would have food to put on the table.

Beyond that there is still funds for picking what they’d like, within certain parameters, however they’d like.

Taking the “cash” out of a pretty horribly abused system could do additional good in sucking the life’s blood out of the opioid/drug epidemic we have going on.

(02-13-2018 03:16 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:09 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 02:55 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 02:48 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  And before the libs come scrambling in and say "I thought Republicans didn't like the government telling people what to do?!?!?! Hypocrites!!!"
...

I don’t think the government should EVER force ANYONE on things such as the foods they eat, churches they attend, schools they go to, etc. People should be allowed to have a choice, make their own decisions, and live with the consequences.

The only thing about food stamps is - you’re getting money from the government. They are providing the money, they get a say in what you get.

I look at it like this: When we received a grant from the federal government there were often times requirements that we buy specific products unless we could legitimately justify buying another. Food Stamps should be no different. If they can legitimately justify deviation so be it, but if Uncle Sam is paying the fiddler Uncle Sam gets to pick the jigs that are played.

I think buying a steak once and a while instead of 100 boxes of Roman noodles still qualifies as spending the money on food.

People hear a few stories of extremely stupid cases and then project that out to everyone, then get outraged and decide its better to strip ALL these people of all choice within in the program.

It's not a few cases. I worked in a grocery store through high school and most of college and saw it multiple times a week. No need to think it still does not happen. I won't even get into all the folks that bought $300 worth of food with food stamps and then pulled out $100 for their cigarettes and booze.

And I stand in long lines at the store every single week and see countless people using a snap card and I don't see hardly any of these extreme cases. I see people trying to squeeze as much possible out of the card. I can see with my own 2 eyes the items in their basket and how they are paying.

lol, I drove to my neighbors house yesterday and didn't see anyone speeding. I guess no one speeds. Look, it happens, a lot. It's natural for folks to take advantage of any system. I don't blame them, I blame the system.

(02-13-2018 03:54 PM)VA49er Wrote:  lol, I drove to my neighbors house yesterday and didn't see anyone speeding. I guess no one speeds. Look, it happens, a lot. It's natural for folks to take advantage of any system. I don't blame them, I blame the system.

Then stop bringing up personal examples. I was simply playing along. No one denied there is abuse.

Having food stamps doesn't mean you can't have other income or buy cigarettes and beer. Most of those people have a small additional income and buy things THEY WANT with that money. That is a basic American freedom.

(02-13-2018 03:26 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:13 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  If you dont think EBT abuse is rampant, I'll gladly give you the location of a kroger store in mid-town Memphis where you will likely get an EBT offer in the parking lot, 2 or 3 in the store, then another in the parking lot when you leave.

EBT's are atms for drugs.

Cutting back on the amount loaded on an EBT, and sending proper food, is the way to go.

How many of those did you report? I bet you got your food, went to your car and not once called this in. If you had you might have stopped this or cut it down.

If you see someone stealing your neighbors tools....

you call the cops or at least go to the cops and give a statement. Don't complain about a problem when a call or trip to the police might have help stop it. Or get a few off the system.

I agree before you say it...it shouldn't be your job. But seeing a crime committed and not reporting it is not the way to fix a problem. Because for every 15 to 20 you see abusing the system...80 to 85 others are not.

It was reported to the MPD. There have been plenty of big busts in Memphis over the years, but it is very difficult to reign in the individuals.

(02-13-2018 12:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I understand some abused the benefit, but I'd rather see Trump continue to focus on incentivising people to get off these things by working than making changes that further restrict those who really depend on the program.

People in genuine need of the program should not be forced to jump through a bunch more hoops to use it. If you need the program you are already very limited in funds, transportation and other areas. And the government has NO BUSINESS dictating what food choices people make just because they are poor.

What kind of conservative are you??

Blue Apron my ass!

Quote:Blue Apron has two plans: a 2-person and a 4-person subscription, both with 3 meals per week. The 2-person plan is $59.94 per week ($9.99 per person) while the family plan is $139.84 per week ($8.74 per person). Hello Fresh costs a bit more, again with 2-person and 4-person subscription options and 3 meals per week.

Not to mention Blue Apron lets you choose your own food.

(02-13-2018 03:39 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:19 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:05 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 12:49 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  There is an argument to be made that...yes...those who give charity do indeed have a right to dictate what that charity is.

You are poor. I feel bad. I give you a pizza. You get mad and claim that you want a steak and that I have no RIGHT to dictate your food choices. Uh, sorry buddy.

That said, you also have a danger of government choosing people's diets, their exercise programs, and exchanging food for "proper" political behavior. Creating two-classes of rights. Food as a means of control.





Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Yea, that’s known as North Korea.

I don’t think that’s what’s being suggested here.

Sounds like once a month, twice a month a box of dry stalled arrives. Probably include minute rice, breads, peanut butter, cheese slices, maybe milk, cereals etc. near everyone has refrigeration of some sort, and most products have a couple weeks shelf life.

This then frees up the other welfare credits or monies for other items the people would like. If they are otherwise responsible and stretch that dollar, then a steak or pot roast here and there I have no problem with.

It’s a floor, not necessarily a ceiling.

Here's the problem with that list of food or any list....

the government is going to end up spending twice to three times as much for a can of corn as you get at discount market. They should be paying 1/3 of the cost because of the amount they buy. But we all know that's not going to be the case.

NOTHING the government buys, even in large qualities, are cheaper. Add in the cost of shipping and packaging and you will easily spend more money. The amount of people processing the people is not going down. Add in those taking off the top in the huge warehouses and the jobs to do this work....

it's costing more

If the government does this any labor job should have to be offered to a person getting this before anyone else. But in the end we are going to add another government program with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of government jobs

All valid concerns.

But there is also an issue that we throw away tens of millions of foods and grains every year around this joint. This could be a wide and varying selection of shelf life stuff that is surplus or specifically set aside for this distribution.

Most packing and boxing could likely be automated to some degree, and tossing 8 more boxes in the mail truck for that particular route isn’t going to be all that.

As I said, I think this “idea” has some merit as a floor. Those truly in need/ desperate could count on the knowledge that on the dayX they would have food to put on the table.

Beyond that there is still funds for picking what they’d like, within certain parameters, however they’d like.

Taking the “cash” out of a pretty horribly abused system could do additional good in sucking the life’s blood out of the opioid/drug epidemic we have going on.

As a person who has seen many many many family and friends dealing with both of those life problems...drugs and government asst. We are going to have different views in solving both.

As a person who ate off "government cheese" for a few months a few times in my childhood. We are coming from different places. What some of you don't realize....

a box of food, twice a month was tried before

If someone wanted to trade it for booze or drugs...they did. A addict will not stop being a addict because they are getting a box of food twice a month. As a matter of fact a convicted drug user will not be able to sign up for SNAP unless they went through treatment.

As for those tens of millions of foods and grains being thrown away every year ....

it cost more giving it away instead of writing it off.

My 22 year old son was working in retail and saw all the new or slightly damaged items being thrown in the dumpster each week. So on one trash day he took his lunch and drove behind 3 shopping centers that had dumpsters picked up around 3 pm.

His SUV was loaded with new items and after doing it for a second and third week he quit his job and started selling on ebay. In a little over a year he's sold $80,000 just on ebay and another $64,000 at the peddlers mall...cost $150 a month to sit up and 6% of total sells. You setup and do nothing else. For $150 + 6% the mall sells your items and collects the money.

So it's cheaper for stores to throw items away and write it off. I will try to get him to send me a picture of the garage...full of new, free, thrown away items....
below is his ebay

Just give them all some government cheese.

(02-13-2018 04:30 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Blue Apron my ass!

Quote:Blue Apron has two plans: a 2-person and a 4-person subscription, both with 3 meals per week. The 2-person plan is $59.94 per week ($9.99 per person) while the family plan is $139.84 per week ($8.74 per person). Hello Fresh costs a bit more, again with 2-person and 4-person subscription options and 3 meals per week.

Not to mention Blue Apron lets you choose your own food.

Maybe my parents were different but their favorite saying was, my house, my rules, you'll eat what we serve or starve.

So what I'm getting at is if the government is buying your food you don't get to be picky. Although I'm not a fan of it. I don't like the government telling me what doctor I have to see or anything of that nature.

(02-13-2018 12:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 12:52 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 12:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I understand some abused the benefit, but I'd rather see Trump continue to focus on incentivising people to get off these things by working than making changes that further restrict those who really depend on the program.

People in genuine need of the program should not be forced to jump through a bunch more hoops to use it. If you need the program you are already very limited in funds, transportation and other areas. And the government has NO BUSINESS dictating what food choices people make just because they are poor.

So..It is OK for someone that gets $90 per month to spend all of it on a whole prime rib? I have no problem with them buying healthy value cuts of meat and seafood along with fresh vegetables and fruits. I do have a problem with the prime rib....that I don't even buy because it is too expensive. Should they not be forced if necessary..to use OUR money in a responsible manner?

I fully agree with your initial assertion BTW. We need to get people working and off assistance first.

This is big brother territory imo. If you are going to give them some funds each month then give it to them. Hovering over every item they purchase in an Orwellian fashion is going way too far. Surely there are much better ways we can go about it.

No hovering required. Just a list of things eligible to purchase with the fruits of others labors. I see nothing onerous about that.
Again. Id rather they not get a dime from me at the point of gun anyway. Ill be more than happy to voluntarily donate to organizations that will help them..and..not let people abuse that charity. Additionally..those organization will do the most with the money. It is an established fact that charity returns over 75% of its funding to those in need..whereas that government programs return aprox. 25%. Most of the money goes to the middle class bureaucrats that administer the welfare.

(02-13-2018 03:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 02:55 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 02:48 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  And before the libs come scrambling in and say "I thought Republicans didn't like the government telling people what to do?!?!?! Hypocrites!!!"
...

I don’t think the government should EVER force ANYONE on things such as the foods they eat, churches they attend, schools they go to, etc. People should be allowed to have a choice, make their own decisions, and live with the consequences.

The only thing about food stamps is - you’re getting money from the government. They are providing the money, they get a say in what you get.

I look at it like this: When we received a grant from the federal government there were often times requirements that we buy specific products unless we could legitimately justify buying another. Food Stamps should be no different. If they can legitimately justify deviation so be it, but if Uncle Sam is paying the fiddler Uncle Sam gets to pick the jigs that are played.

I think buying a steak once and a while instead of 100 boxes of Roman noodles still qualifies as spending the money on food.

People hear a few stories of extremely stupid cases and then project that out to everyone, then get outraged and decide its better to strip ALL these people of all choice within in the program. Now the government has the power over what these people eat specifically simply because they are the poorest Americans.

Its also a straw man because its not the only way to improve the program, its just the most restrictive and controlling via big government.

I don't have a problem with a steak once in a while. I have no problem with them being able to buy a sirloin and no problem with it being on the list. Like WIC..Just have a list of items that are reasonably priced and healthy. I don't see what is so horrible or unreasonable about that.

(02-13-2018 03:09 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 02:55 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 02:48 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  And before the libs come scrambling in and say "I thought Republicans didn't like the government telling people what to do?!?!?! Hypocrites!!!"
...

I don’t think the government should EVER force ANYONE on things such as the foods they eat, churches they attend, schools they go to, etc. People should be allowed to have a choice, make their own decisions, and live with the consequences.

The only thing about food stamps is - you’re getting money from the government. They are providing the money, they get a say in what you get.

I look at it like this: When we received a grant from the federal government there were often times requirements that we buy specific products unless we could legitimately justify buying another. Food Stamps should be no different. If they can legitimately justify deviation so be it, but if Uncle Sam is paying the fiddler Uncle Sam gets to pick the jigs that are played.

I think buying a steak once and a while instead of 100 boxes of Roman noodles still qualifies as spending the money on food.

People hear a few stories of extremely stupid cases and then project that out to everyone, then get outraged and decide its better to strip ALL these people of all choice within in the program.

It's not a few cases. I worked in a grocery store through high school and most of college and saw it multiple times a week. No need to think it still does not happen. I won't even get into all the folks that bought $300 worth of food with food stamps and then pulled out $100 for their cigarettes and booze.

I know for a fact people buy items with the benefits and sell them in the parking lot. Ive seen it with my own eyes. They were not selling ramen noodles either. They were selling trays of steaks.

I'm for it if they can deliver quality and save money. It's the government, so I have my doubts.

I've seen the word "fresh" probably 100 times today, seems to be an alt-left talking point. What's the first word in SNAP? Exactly, supplemental. SNAP isn't meant to be your primary source of food, it's meant to be a supplement. A blue-apron style box with some non-perishable essentials seems to be right up the ally for such a program. Buy your FRESH VEGGIES with the remainder of the cash benefit or with your own money.

(02-13-2018 03:22 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-13-2018 03:19 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Here's the problem with that list of food or any list....

the government is going to end up spending twice to three times as much for a can of corn as you get at discount market. They should be paying 1/3 of the cost because of the amount they buy. But we all know that's not going to be the case.

NOTHING the government buys, even in large qualities, are cheaper. Add in the cost of shipping and packaging and you will easily spend more money. The amount of people processing the people is not going down. Add in those taking off the top in the huge warehouses and the jobs to do this work....

it's costing more

If the government does this any labor job should have to be offered to a person getting this before anyone else. But in the end we are going to add another government program with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of government jobs

Conservatives and libertarians arguing big government can do this more efficiently and save money.

Strange times we live in.

Instead, the government will indeed spend 3 times as much on the food, plus create a whole new bloated big government department, plus it's likely a much higher % of the food is wasted and not eaten as opposed to the current system.

They create a whole new and much larger mess than we have now.

I will not attempt to argue this point. It is a valid one for sure.

It would seem to be as simple as the generation of a list of items similar to the WIC program. Im sure you are correct. It would end up much more complicated than that with government bureaucrats involved. Bureaucratic red tape is why I oppose the entire USDA program in the first place. It should be done by private charity that is incentivized to be frugal and actually help those in need.

(02-13-2018 04:30 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Blue Apron my ass!

Quote:Blue Apron has two plans: a 2-person and a 4-person subscription, both with 3 meals per week. The 2-person plan is $59.94 per week ($9.99 per person) while the family plan is $139.84 per week ($8.74 per person). Hello Fresh costs a bit more, again with 2-person and 4-person subscription options and 3 meals per week.

Not to mention Blue Apron lets you choose your own food.

My daughter did a Hello Fresh with a Goupon for my birthday. 3 meals for 2 people. Got the cost down to $4.44 +- per supposed meal, and each of them was plenty of food for at least 3, one Stuffed peppers, was enough for SIX! Good stuff, too.

No, the feds won't be sending a bunch or much of that type stuff, but for staples, I don't really see a problem here. Maybe they give you a magnet chart for the side of your fridge and every two weeks you pick which box, of say 3, you want to come two weeks hence.

I'm not gonna expend any energy for or against this thing, but just saying these days it could work.

(02-13-2018 04:54 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  Just give them all some government cheese.

That should definitely one of the staples. Versatile, doesn't need refrigeration necessarily, good source of protein and calcium, and damn it, it tastes good.

That and we throw away millions of pounds of the perfectly good stuff every year.

I don't think you can find very many if any households that use "staples" and actually prepare meals every day. This is a McDonald's and Domino's world we now live in.