One problem that we've always had is with guys leaving the football program. It has caused depth problems and a loss of star power. Last season we'd have gone to a bowl game and perhaps played for the MAC championship if we'd have kept Kilby and Barnes. Given the kind of losses we had they would have been difference makers. And let's not forget that we lost T Porter, our only backup QB with experience.

Now I hear that Aristilde is leaving the program. I don't know what issues he had that kept him out, and yes I do remember the Western game. But I've been watching EMU football for decades and I'm convinced that we've never had a WR with the combination of size and speed that he has.

Maybe he's uncoachable. But that would be on our coaching staff as well as the player.

The coaches need to fix this and stop the talent drain.

Dear ljmhurons,
I don't believe Eastern's loss of players is any different then at other schools. They all complain about losing certain players. I think it boils down to a few things. As you have said, some are uncoachable, but that can mean more than coaching. Some players just will not accept what coaches tell them. That could mean the player thinks he knows more than the coach.
Some players get homesick, and miss their families and friends attending games, and lastly, some can't cut it academically. There may be other reasons for sure, but I think most fit what I have said.

(01-22-2018 03:44 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear ljmhurons,
I don't believe Eastern's loss of players is any different then at other schools. They all complain about losing certain players. I think it boils down to a few things. As you have said, some are uncoachable, but that can mean more than coaching. Some players just will not accept what coaches tell them. That could mean the player thinks he knows more than the coach.
Some players get homesick, and miss their families and friends attending games, and lastly, some can't cut it academically. There may be other reasons for sure, but I think most fit what I have said.

Observation our turnover under Creighton's has been less than some other coaches

(01-22-2018 03:44 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear ljmhurons,
I don't believe Eastern's loss of players is any different then at other schools. They all complain about losing certain players. I think it boils down to a few things. As you have said, some are uncoachable, but that can mean more than coaching. Some players just will not accept what coaches tell them. That could mean the player thinks he knows more than the coach.
Some players get homesick, and miss their families and friends attending games, and lastly, some can't cut it academically. There may be other reasons for sure, but I think most fit what I have said.

Some players also fail drug tests.

I heard the first month that CC was on board that he told the players what his rule was on failed drug tests.

Players can miss games or get booted for failed drug tests.

If there's a a talent drain how you explain a bowl appearance in 2016 and the most competitive season in our history last year?

Someone should inform this guy that EMU beat a P5 team for the first time ever.

While in a general sense, I believe in the “next man up” philosophy, the challenge facing EMU football has long been cultivating the depth needed for “next man up” to be something our team can excel with.

(01-22-2018 03:05 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  One problem that we've always had is with guys leaving the football program. It has caused depth problems and a loss of star power. Last season we'd have gone to a bowl game and perhaps played for the MAC championship if we'd have kept Kilby and Barnes. Given the kind of losses we had they would have been difference makers. And let's not forget that we lost T Porter, our only backup QB with experience.

Now I hear that Aristilde is leaving the program. I don't know what issues he had that kept him out, and yes I do remember the Western game. But I've been watching EMU football for decades and I'm convinced that we've never had a WR with the combination of size and speed that he has.

Maybe he's uncoachable. But that would be on our coaching staff as well as the player.

The coaches need to fix this and stop the talent drain.

Size and speed and potential means nothing if you can't stay on the field. Given his history, I'd guess there's a 99.9% chance this is on the player, not the coaches. I was his biggest fan, and pointed him out early, but he just never put it all together. Good luck to him.

Agree with other comments that we have no more turnover than any other schools. Said it many times, attrition is nearly 50% per all recruiting classes, for a myriad of different reasons. Weed and drug testing being a much bigger problem today, than even 10 years ago.

It is what it is, these are 17-22 year old kids, and sometimes they just don't seem to 'get it.' There is always going to be a bad apple here or there, or a good kid that just does something really stupid. Although you can always work harder to recruit better talent, this staff certainly doesn't have any history of recruiting 'high risk' kids.

This is a non issue.

(01-22-2018 05:20 PM)emu79 Wrote:  If there's a a talent drain how you explain a bowl appearance in 2016 and the most competitive season in our history last year?

Kilby and Barnes were key players on the 2016 team. Had they been on the 17 team there would have been another bowl.

We only won five games last year.

(01-22-2018 08:39 PM)Lefty One Wrote:  Someone should inform this guy that EMU beat a P5 team for the first time ever.

Oh gee, thanks. I forgot about our glorious victory over Rutgers. All those losses clouded my memory.

(01-23-2018 02:46 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 05:20 PM)emu79 Wrote:  If there's a a talent drain how you explain a bowl appearance in 2016 and the most competitive season in our history last year?

Kilby and Barnes were key players on the 2016 team. Had they been on the 17 team there would have been another bowl.

We only won five games last year.

And how many games did we use to win for decades?

Barnes and Kirby chose to transfer both cases of big egos in my opinion

(01-22-2018 09:14 PM)KPJ Wrote:  While in a general sense, I believe in the “next man up” philosophy, the challenge facing EMU football has long been cultivating the depth needed for “next man up” to be something our team can excel with.

We have at a full 85 scholies for a couple of years now we don't have enough for all the players we would like to sign

(01-22-2018 09:14 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 03:05 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  One problem that we've always had is with guys leaving the football program. It has caused depth problems and a loss of star power. Last season we'd have gone to a bowl game and perhaps played for the MAC championship if we'd have kept Kilby and Barnes. Given the kind of losses we had they would have been difference makers. And let's not forget that we lost T Porter, our only backup QB with experience.

Now I hear that Aristilde is leaving the program. I don't know what issues he had that kept him out, and yes I do remember the Western game. But I've been watching EMU football for decades and I'm convinced that we've never had a WR with the combination of size and speed that he has.

Maybe he's uncoachable. But that would be on our coaching staff as well as the player.

The coaches need to fix this and stop the talent drain.

Size and speed and potential means nothing if you can't stay on the field. Given his history, I'd guess there's a 99.9% chance this is on the player, not the coaches. I was his biggest fan, and pointed him out early, but he just never put it all together. Good luck to him.

Agree with other comments that we have no more turnover than any other schools. Said it many times, attrition is nearly 50% per all recruiting classes, for a myriad of different reasons. Weed and drug testing being a much bigger problem today, than even 10 years ago.

It is what it is, these are 17-22 year old kids, and sometimes they just don't seem to 'get it.' There is always going to be a bad apple here or there, or a good kid that just does something really stupid. Although you can always work harder to recruit better talent, this staff certainly doesn't have any history of recruiting 'high risk' kids.

This is a non issue.

In 2016 Kilby made critical catches against both BG and CMU, plays that were difference makersd. Losing him terribly hurt our offense.

In 16 a typical exchange of punts gained EMU three or four yards in field position. Without Barnes we lost three to four yards in '17.

Put those two back at EMU and we go to another bowl game.

(01-23-2018 02:52 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 02:46 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 05:20 PM)emu79 Wrote:  If there's a a talent drain how you explain a bowl appearance in 2016 and the most competitive season in our history last year?

Kilby and Barnes were key players on the 2016 team. Had they been on the 17 team there would have been another bowl.

We only won five games last year.

And how many games did we use to win for decades?

Barnes and Kirby chose to transfer both cases of big egos in my opinion

I thought Kilby had 'issues'??

Why it is really, really hard to discuss this stuff is that we don't really know why players leave.

CC runs a very clean program including failed drug tests. We probably lose players that other programs would retain. UofM FB fans might remember that Florida suspended what almost 10 players for their season opening game. You will never see that with CC. CC comes across to me as straight an arrow as one will find. He won't take kids with a GED from reform school.

Quite frankly with the way CC runs his program I'm surprised we don't lose more players.

(01-23-2018 03:03 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 09:14 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 03:05 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  One problem that we've always had is with guys leaving the football program. It has caused depth problems and a loss of star power. Last season we'd have gone to a bowl game and perhaps played for the MAC championship if we'd have kept Kilby and Barnes. Given the kind of losses we had they would have been difference makers. And let's not forget that we lost T Porter, our only backup QB with experience.

Now I hear that Aristilde is leaving the program. I don't know what issues he had that kept him out, and yes I do remember the Western game. But I've been watching EMU football for decades and I'm convinced that we've never had a WR with the combination of size and speed that he has.

Maybe he's uncoachable. But that would be on our coaching staff as well as the player.

The coaches need to fix this and stop the talent drain.

Size and speed and potential means nothing if you can't stay on the field. Given his history, I'd guess there's a 99.9% chance this is on the player, not the coaches. I was his biggest fan, and pointed him out early, but he just never put it all together. Good luck to him.

Agree with other comments that we have no more turnover than any other schools. Said it many times, attrition is nearly 50% per all recruiting classes, for a myriad of different reasons. Weed and drug testing being a much bigger problem today, than even 10 years ago.

It is what it is, these are 17-22 year old kids, and sometimes they just don't seem to 'get it.' There is always going to be a bad apple here or there, or a good kid that just does something really stupid. Although you can always work harder to recruit better talent, this staff certainly doesn't have any history of recruiting 'high risk' kids.

This is a non issue.

In 2016 Kilby made critical catches against both BG and CMU, plays that were difference makersd. Losing him terribly hurt our offense.

In 16 a typical exchange of punts gained EMU three or four yards in field position. Without Barnes we lost three to four yards in '17.

Put those two back at EMU and we go to another bowl game.

And if Aristilde doesn't block in the back during the WMU game we win and go to a bowl game. Lots of maybes. Sorry we can't keep kids who don't want to be here by following the rules, hitting the books, thinking out there on the field, discipline problems playing time do the conditioning work etc. etc. Barnes didn't really help himself by transferring and my prediction is neither did Kilby. By the way a healthy Buschman all year would have helped offset Kilby's transfer. And some guys who didn't come here or stay here and went JUCO aren't really getting top of the line offers out of JUCO.

And if Roback doesn't make an awful throw off of his back foot in the Ohio game, we are 7-5 again.

So many "ifs and buts". As someone already said, attrition is natural and common when you have 85 scholarship players and only 11 are on the field at any time. Especially at the MAC level, where some think they can do better in a bigger conference.

I'm glad Creighton runs a tight ship.

(01-23-2018 08:24 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  And if Roback doesn't make an awful throw off of his back foot in the Ohio game, we are 7-5 again.

So many "ifs and buts". As someone already said, attrition is natural and common when you have 85 scholarship players and only 11 are on the field at any time. Especially at the MAC level, where some think they can do better in a bigger conference.

I'm glad Creighton runs a tight ship.

Running a 'tight ship' pays off in the long run.

If a program acquires a good reputation parents and h.s. coaches trust the recruits with them.

No parent wants to send his or her kid to a situation like Florida had last season...

(01-23-2018 03:03 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 09:14 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 03:05 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  One problem that we've always had is with guys leaving the football program. It has caused depth problems and a loss of star power. Last season we'd have gone to a bowl game and perhaps played for the MAC championship if we'd have kept Kilby and Barnes. Given the kind of losses we had they would have been difference makers. And let's not forget that we lost T Porter, our only backup QB with experience.

Now I hear that Aristilde is leaving the program. I don't know what issues he had that kept him out, and yes I do remember the Western game. But I've been watching EMU football for decades and I'm convinced that we've never had a WR with the combination of size and speed that he has.

Maybe he's uncoachable. But that would be on our coaching staff as well as the player.

The coaches need to fix this and stop the talent drain.

Size and speed and potential means nothing if you can't stay on the field. Given his history, I'd guess there's a 99.9% chance this is on the player, not the coaches. I was his biggest fan, and pointed him out early, but he just never put it all together. Good luck to him.

Agree with other comments that we have no more turnover than any other schools. Said it many times, attrition is nearly 50% per all recruiting classes, for a myriad of different reasons. Weed and drug testing being a much bigger problem today, than even 10 years ago.

It is what it is, these are 17-22 year old kids, and sometimes they just don't seem to 'get it.' There is always going to be a bad apple here or there, or a good kid that just does something really stupid. Although you can always work harder to recruit better talent, this staff certainly doesn't have any history of recruiting 'high risk' kids.

This is a non issue.

In 2016 Kilby made critical catches against both BG and CMU, plays that were difference makersd. Losing him terribly hurt our offense.

In 16 a typical exchange of punts gained EMU three or four yards in field position. Without Barnes we lost three to four yards in '17.

Put those two back at EMU and we go to another bowl game.

You may or may not be right about that, but your bigger point seemed to be that this was somehow the coaches fault that these kids 'left.' A couple terrible Roback picks, a couple blocked punts, and the Dieuly block in the back is what kept us out of a bowl last year.

Kilby was 100% self inflicted. Football staff had nothing to do with him leaving.
Dieuly was 100% self inflicted. Actually, the staff probably gave him more chances than he deserved.
Barnes apparently had his mind set that he wanted to leave. The staff tried to convince him to stay, but there is only so much you can do at that point.

(01-23-2018 11:12 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 03:03 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 09:14 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(01-22-2018 03:05 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  One problem that we've always had is with guys leaving the football program. It has caused depth problems and a loss of star power. Last season we'd have gone to a bowl game and perhaps played for the MAC championship if we'd have kept Kilby and Barnes. Given the kind of losses we had they would have been difference makers. And let's not forget that we lost T Porter, our only backup QB with experience.

Now I hear that Aristilde is leaving the program. I don't know what issues he had that kept him out, and yes I do remember the Western game. But I've been watching EMU football for decades and I'm convinced that we've never had a WR with the combination of size and speed that he has.

Maybe he's uncoachable. But that would be on our coaching staff as well as the player.

The coaches need to fix this and stop the talent drain.

Size and speed and potential means nothing if you can't stay on the field. Given his history, I'd guess there's a 99.9% chance this is on the player, not the coaches. I was his biggest fan, and pointed him out early, but he just never put it all together. Good luck to him.

Agree with other comments that we have no more turnover than any other schools. Said it many times, attrition is nearly 50% per all recruiting classes, for a myriad of different reasons. Weed and drug testing being a much bigger problem today, than even 10 years ago.

It is what it is, these are 17-22 year old kids, and sometimes they just don't seem to 'get it.' There is always going to be a bad apple here or there, or a good kid that just does something really stupid. Although you can always work harder to recruit better talent, this staff certainly doesn't have any history of recruiting 'high risk' kids.

This is a non issue.

In 2016 Kilby made critical catches against both BG and CMU, plays that were difference makersd. Losing him terribly hurt our offense.

In 16 a typical exchange of punts gained EMU three or four yards in field position. Without Barnes we lost three to four yards in '17.

Put those two back at EMU and we go to another bowl game.

You may or may not be right about that, but your bigger point seemed to be that is what somehow the coaches fault that these kids 'left.' A couple terrible Roback picks, a couple blocked punts, and the Dieuly block in the back is what kept us out of a bowl last year.

Kilby was 100% self inflicted. Football staff had nothing to do with him leaving.
Dieuly was 100% self inflicted. Actually, the staff probably gave him more chances than he deserved.
Barnes apparently had his mind set that he wanted to leave. The staff tried to convince him to stay, but there is only so much you can do at that point.

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Losing a guy is not the same as an on field error.