(07-24-2017 01:13 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 01:05 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 12:45 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 11:58 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 11:44 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  So the Big 12 ruse to evaluate expansion, only to pull the rug out from under us all, was orchestrated by some real estate investors in midtown Memphis? Interesting take

Interesting would be one word. Delusional might be better.

The ability of some posters on this board to invent revisionist history about the Big 12's dysfunctional process of considering league expansion never disappoints.

Well, the problem comes when someone, anyone, believed that the Big 12 was going to add Memphis. Some people knew it would never happen, some people thought it might, and some thought it was a sure thing. The smart people fell into the knew it would never happen category. That was me. Which category did you two geniuses fall into? Exactly.

I probably had about 100 posts in the Big 12 twitter smoke thread if you want to check. Never once said Memphis was in, was criticized for it often. The clown who can only post now in the Smack forum asked for me to be banned when I and others called out him and others saying Memphis had signed B12 papers "18 months ago".

None of which addresses your ridiculous theory of the some re-branding of the Highland Strip driving our Big 12 expansion efforts. Absurd.

"There's a sucker born every minute" - PT Barnum

Are you saying Barnum said that to your mom?

(07-24-2017 01:14 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 01:13 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 01:05 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 12:45 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 11:58 AM)Tigx Wrote:  Interesting would be one word. Delusional might be better.

The ability of some posters on this board to invent revisionist history about the Big 12's dysfunctional process of considering league expansion never disappoints.

Well, the problem comes when someone, anyone, believed that the Big 12 was going to add Memphis. Some people knew it would never happen, some people thought it might, and some thought it was a sure thing. The smart people fell into the knew it would never happen category. That was me. Which category did you two geniuses fall into? Exactly.

I probably had about 100 posts in the Big 12 twitter smoke thread if you want to check. Never once said Memphis was in, was criticized for it often. The clown who can only post now in the Smack forum asked for me to be banned when I and others called out him and others saying Memphis had signed B12 papers "18 months ago".

None of which addresses your ridiculous theory of the some re-branding of the Highland Strip driving our Big 12 expansion efforts. Absurd.

"There's a sucker born every minute" - PT Barnum

Are you saying Barnum said that to your mom?

This conversation went downhill fast

Wow.

More attacks and insults.

Par for the course.

(07-24-2017 12:45 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 11:58 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 11:44 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 12:34 PM)jamammy Wrote:  The Big 12 was never going to happen.

A bunch of big money hotshots used that as a bait to get investors to bite into the "Highland Revitalization Project."

So the Big 12 ruse to evaluate expansion, only to pull the rug out from under us all, was orchestrated by some real estate investors in midtown Memphis? Interesting take

Interesting would be one word. Delusional might be better.

The ability of some posters on this board to invent revisionist history about the Big 12's dysfunctional process of considering league expansion never disappoints.

Well, the problem comes when someone, anyone, believed that the Big 12 was going to add Memphis. Some people knew it would never happen, some people thought it might, and some thought it was a sure thing. The smart people fell into the knew it would never happen category. That was me. Which category did you two geniuses fall into? Exactly.

Well, I try not to do name-calling or yo-momma jokes.

I contend that IF the B12 ever decides to expand, that we are a credible candidate. Moreso than ever before in our history. I also contend that their expansion communication, our application, and subsequent withdrawal had zero to do with the Highland Strip.

Skepticism and conspiratorial paranoia can be independent.

But are they a credible conference? That's my question.

(07-24-2017 12:45 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 11:58 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 11:44 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 12:34 PM)jamammy Wrote:  The Big 12 was never going to happen.

A bunch of big money hotshots used that as a bait to get investors to bite into the "Highland Revitalization Project."

So the Big 12 ruse to evaluate expansion, only to pull the rug out from under us all, was orchestrated by some real estate investors in midtown Memphis? Interesting take

Interesting would be one word. Delusional might be better.

The ability of some posters on this board to invent revisionist history about the Big 12's dysfunctional process of considering league expansion never disappoints.

Well, the problem comes when someone, anyone, believed that the Big 12 was going to add Memphis. Some people knew it would never happen, some people thought it might, and some thought it was a sure thing. The smart people fell into the knew it would never happen category. THAT WAS ME. Which category did you two geniuses fall into? Exactly.

...and I warned them the Hindenburg would catch fire and be destroyed.

(07-24-2017 03:50 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  But are they a credible conference? That's my question.

Competitively, yes. Financially, yes.

Leadership, no.

(07-25-2017 08:34 AM)DALLAS TIGER 78 Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 12:45 PM)jamammy Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 11:58 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 11:44 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 12:34 PM)jamammy Wrote:  The Big 12 was never going to happen.

A bunch of big money hotshots used that as a bait to get investors to bite into the "Highland Revitalization Project."

So the Big 12 ruse to evaluate expansion, only to pull the rug out from under us all, was orchestrated by some real estate investors in midtown Memphis? Interesting take

Interesting would be one word. Delusional might be better.

The ability of some posters on this board to invent revisionist history about the Big 12's dysfunctional process of considering league expansion never disappoints.

Well, the problem comes when someone, anyone, believed that the Big 12 was going to add Memphis. Some people knew it would never happen, some people thought it might, and some thought it was a sure thing. The smart people fell into the knew it would never happen category. THAT WAS ME. Which category did you two geniuses fall into? Exactly.

...and I warned them the Hindenburg would catch fire and be destroyed.

You're old.

(07-22-2017 11:13 AM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but several of those who are really down on Tubby were pretty staunch Pastner supporters and probably don't share the opinions of some of us as to how low the program had sunk. I think that's why they don't think fixing things should be that big a deal.

The Keelon situation is a good example. If you didn't think that was a bad idea from the start, you probably don't think losing him was desirable. If you did, you're probably more likely to see the departure as a step in the right direction.

Different people looking at the same situation see completely different things, and that fuels a lot of the arguing. As has been stated, everybody will be happy if we win, and winning would unite the fanbase -- but that's not the only way to do it. This year we won't be very good, but if we're not the following year, there'll be a lot more unity and a lot less arguing.

Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

(07-25-2017 01:07 PM)thagr82008 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 11:13 AM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but several of those who are really down on Tubby were pretty staunch Pastner supporters and probably don't share the opinions of some of us as to how low the program had sunk. I think that's why they don't think fixing things should be that big a deal.

The Keelon situation is a good example. If you didn't think that was a bad idea from the start, you probably don't think losing him was desirable. If you did, you're probably more likely to see the departure as a step in the right direction.

Different people looking at the same situation see completely different things, and that fuels a lot of the arguing. As has been stated, everybody will be happy if we win, and winning would unite the fanbase -- but that's not the only way to do it. This year we won't be very good, but if we're not the following year, there'll be a lot more unity and a lot less arguing.

Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

The measuring stick for Tiger basketball season to be successful isn't a moving target. Generally, be in the running for the conference championship at the end of the season, get an NCAA tournament invite, and advance to the NCAA S16 or beyond.

There are exceptions of course like Kirk's last season when a loaded team that had a GREAT regular season was upset by LSU in the round of 32. I would still consider that a very good team and that they had a successful season with a disappointing ending.

Yes there will be the occasional rebuilding year, Yes there might be a year with a talented but very young team that might end up making a deep run in the NIT or have a first round exit from the NCAA tournament but that would come back and follow that up the next season with an NCAA S16.

Right now, it feels like Tiger basketball has been treading water for 3-4 years with more to come.......

(07-25-2017 01:07 PM)thagr82008 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 11:13 AM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but several of those who are really down on Tubby were pretty staunch Pastner supporters and probably don't share the opinions of some of us as to how low the program had sunk. I think that's why they don't think fixing things should be that big a deal.

The Keelon situation is a good example. If you didn't think that was a bad idea from the start, you probably don't think losing him was desirable. If you did, you're probably more likely to see the departure as a step in the right direction.

Different people looking at the same situation see completely different things, and that fuels a lot of the arguing. As has been stated, everybody will be happy if we win, and winning would unite the fanbase -- but that's not the only way to do it. This year we won't be very good, but if we're not the following year, there'll be a lot more unity and a lot less arguing.

Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

Pretty simple. We've got the X's and O's. We don't have the Jimmys and Joes. We probably won't be better than we were the early part of last year (when everybody pretty much agreed on those X's and O's.) On the other hand, I'm pretty sure even a bunch of Juco's and three freshmen will finish better.

As far as expectations, I don't expect us to do better than we have since Cal was here. If we do and somehow make a Sweet 16 or better, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Scratch that -- I'd go screaming and dancing through the streets of Memphis waving blue and grey streamers and embarrassing my kids till they wouldn't admit to knowing me. And believe me, I've been ready to do that for a long, long time.

(07-25-2017 01:07 PM)thagr82008 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 11:13 AM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but several of those who are really down on Tubby were pretty staunch Pastner supporters and probably don't share the opinions of some of us as to how low the program had sunk. I think that's why they don't think fixing things should be that big a deal.

The Keelon situation is a good example. If you didn't think that was a bad idea from the start, you probably don't think losing him was desirable. If you did, you're probably more likely to see the departure as a step in the right direction.

Different people looking at the same situation see completely different things, and that fuels a lot of the arguing. As has been stated, everybody will be happy if we win, and winning would unite the fanbase -- but that's not the only way to do it. This year we won't be very good, but if we're not the following year, there'll be a lot more unity and a lot less arguing.

Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

Do you know how math works?

(07-25-2017 04:08 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 01:07 PM)thagr82008 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 11:13 AM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but several of those who are really down on Tubby were pretty staunch Pastner supporters and probably don't share the opinions of some of us as to how low the program had sunk. I think that's why they don't think fixing things should be that big a deal.

The Keelon situation is a good example. If you didn't think that was a bad idea from the start, you probably don't think losing him was desirable. If you did, you're probably more likely to see the departure as a step in the right direction.

Different people looking at the same situation see completely different things, and that fuels a lot of the arguing. As has been stated, everybody will be happy if we win, and winning would unite the fanbase -- but that's not the only way to do it. This year we won't be very good, but if we're not the following year, there'll be a lot more unity and a lot less arguing.

Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

The measuring stick for Tiger basketball season to be successful isn't a moving target. Generally, be in the running for the conference championship at the end of the season, get an NCAA tournament invite, and advance to the NCAA S16 or beyond.

There are exceptions of course like Kirk's last season when a loaded team that had a GREAT regular season was upset by LSU in the round of 32. I would still consider that a very good team and that they had a successful season with a disappointing ending.

Yes there will be the occasional rebuilding year, Yes there might be a year with a talented but very young team that might end up making a deep run in the NIT or have a first round exit from the NCAA tournament but that would come back and follow that up the next season with an NCAA S16.

Right now, it feels like Tiger basketball has been treading water for 3-4 years with more to come.......

The NCAA changed the rule right after that road loss to a lower ranked team. I can't imagine that any school in NCAA Tournament history has been screwed like we have when it comes to tournament locations. LSU, UCLA and Texas A&M come to mind immediately and I know I am forgetting a couple of others.

(07-26-2017 09:04 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 01:07 PM)thagr82008 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 11:13 AM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but several of those who are really down on Tubby were pretty staunch Pastner supporters and probably don't share the opinions of some of us as to how low the program had sunk. I think that's why they don't think fixing things should be that big a deal.

The Keelon situation is a good example. If you didn't think that was a bad idea from the start, you probably don't think losing him was desirable. If you did, you're probably more likely to see the departure as a step in the right direction.

Different people looking at the same situation see completely different things, and that fuels a lot of the arguing. As has been stated, everybody will be happy if we win, and winning would unite the fanbase -- but that's not the only way to do it. This year we won't be very good, but if we're not the following year, there'll be a lot more unity and a lot less arguing.

Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

Do you know how math works?

Math is pretty simple. Talent evaluation not so much.

(07-26-2017 09:38 AM)SouthernBlue Wrote:  

(07-26-2017 09:04 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 01:07 PM)thagr82008 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 11:13 AM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but several of those who are really down on Tubby were pretty staunch Pastner supporters and probably don't share the opinions of some of us as to how low the program had sunk. I think that's why they don't think fixing things should be that big a deal.

The Keelon situation is a good example. If you didn't think that was a bad idea from the start, you probably don't think losing him was desirable. If you did, you're probably more likely to see the departure as a step in the right direction.

Different people looking at the same situation see completely different things, and that fuels a lot of the arguing. As has been stated, everybody will be happy if we win, and winning would unite the fanbase -- but that's not the only way to do it. This year we won't be very good, but if we're not the following year, there'll be a lot more unity and a lot less arguing.

Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

Do you know how math works?

Math is pretty simple. Talent evaluation not so much.

We have two players returning from last year's team, which when everyone was getting along and saying that Tubby was great, and playing awesome defense and running plays, and not going out all night in Florida and all that...was almost never in the top 100 of the RPI. That was when we were at our best.

This year we bring in the #45 recruiting class and almost none of our players have D1 experience. How can we even dream of being better than last year?

(07-26-2017 10:32 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-26-2017 09:38 AM)SouthernBlue Wrote:  

(07-26-2017 09:04 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 01:07 PM)thagr82008 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 11:13 AM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but several of those who are really down on Tubby were pretty staunch Pastner supporters and probably don't share the opinions of some of us as to how low the program had sunk. I think that's why they don't think fixing things should be that big a deal.

The Keelon situation is a good example. If you didn't think that was a bad idea from the start, you probably don't think losing him was desirable. If you did, you're probably more likely to see the departure as a step in the right direction.

Different people looking at the same situation see completely different things, and that fuels a lot of the arguing. As has been stated, everybody will be happy if we win, and winning would unite the fanbase -- but that's not the only way to do it. This year we won't be very good, but if we're not the following year, there'll be a lot more unity and a lot less arguing.

Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

Do you know how math works?

Math is pretty simple. Talent evaluation not so much.

We have two players returning from last year's team, which when everyone was getting along and saying that Tubby was great, and playing awesome defense and running plays, and not going out all night in Florida and all that...was almost never in the top 100 of the RPI. That was when we were at our best.

This year we bring in the #45 recruiting class and almost none of our players have D1 experience. How can we even dream of being better than last year?

Because our coaches have a wealth of experience in evaluating talent and know what players they need to form a team that will compete? Because the strife and division will be gone this year and they should play together as a team? Because they are athletic and have good size so they won't be pushed around inside like last year? Because by all accounts, of people who have have seen them play personally, they will be much better than many expected?

(07-26-2017 10:42 AM)SouthernBlue Wrote:  

(07-26-2017 10:32 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-26-2017 09:38 AM)SouthernBlue Wrote:  

(07-26-2017 09:04 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 01:07 PM)thagr82008 Wrote:  Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

Do you know how math works?

Math is pretty simple. Talent evaluation not so much.

We have two players returning from last year's team, which when everyone was getting along and saying that Tubby was great, and playing awesome defense and running plays, and not going out all night in Florida and all that...was almost never in the top 100 of the RPI. That was when we were at our best.

This year we bring in the #45 recruiting class and almost none of our players have D1 experience. How can we even dream of being better than last year?

Because our coaches have a wealth of experience in evaluating talent and know what players they need to form a team that will compete? Because the strife and division will be gone this year and they should play together as a team? Because they are athletic and have good size so they won't be pushed around inside like last year? Because by all accounts, of people who have have seen them play personally, they will be much better than many expected?

no
maybe
no
maybe

Two maybes outta 4 ain't bad tho.

(07-25-2017 04:39 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 01:07 PM)thagr82008 Wrote:  

(07-22-2017 11:13 AM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but several of those who are really down on Tubby were pretty staunch Pastner supporters and probably don't share the opinions of some of us as to how low the program had sunk. I think that's why they don't think fixing things should be that big a deal.

The Keelon situation is a good example. If you didn't think that was a bad idea from the start, you probably don't think losing him was desirable. If you did, you're probably more likely to see the departure as a step in the right direction.

Different people looking at the same situation see completely different things, and that fuels a lot of the arguing. As has been stated, everybody will be happy if we win, and winning would unite the fanbase -- but that's not the only way to do it. This year we won't be very good, but if we're not the following year, there'll be a lot more unity and a lot less arguing.

Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

Pretty simple. We've got the X's and O's. We don't have the Jimmys and Joes. We probably won't be better than we were the early part of last year (when everybody pretty much agreed on those X's and O's.) On the other hand, I'm pretty sure even a bunch of Juco's and three freshmen will finish better.

As far as expectations, I don't expect us to do better than we have since Cal was here. If we do and somehow make a Sweet 16 or better, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Scratch that -- I'd go screaming and dancing through the streets of Memphis waving blue and grey streamers and embarrassing my kids till they wouldn't admit to knowing me. And believe me, I've been ready to do that for a long, long time.

How exactly are we good with the x and o's?

Last year, Memphis lost 4 times as a favorite and won twice as a dog.

Memphis was 3-8 last year in games where the line was from +4 to -4.

One would suppose a good coach would win more games as a dog than lose as a favorite and would at least be 50/50 in games with close lines.

(07-26-2017 10:42 AM)SouthernBlue Wrote:  

(07-26-2017 10:32 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-26-2017 09:38 AM)SouthernBlue Wrote:  

(07-26-2017 09:04 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-25-2017 01:07 PM)thagr82008 Wrote:  Excellent post.... Very well stated as well as informative! I do have a question....How does one draw a conclusion that this years team WON'T be very good, and what is the measuring stick for that?

Most specifically: what are the expectations that you are ALREADY assured that this team will fall short of.....

I'm extremely interested to read your response......

Do you know how math works?

Math is pretty simple. Talent evaluation not so much.

We have two players returning from last year's team, which when everyone was getting along and saying that Tubby was great, and playing awesome defense and running plays, and not going out all night in Florida and all that...was almost never in the top 100 of the RPI. That was when we were at our best.

This year we bring in the #45 recruiting class and almost none of our players have D1 experience. How can we even dream of being better than last year?

Because our coaches have a wealth of experience in evaluating talent and know what players they need to form a team that will compete? Because the strife and division will be gone this year and they should play together as a team? Because they are athletic and have good size so they won't be pushed around inside like last year? Because by all accounts, of people who have have seen them play personally, they will be much better than many expected?

What do you think Coach K, Pitino, Izzo and Cal would be able to do with this roster? 4 different styles, all successful.

I'm thinking coaching requires a lot of steam--especially when teaching the x's and o's as opposed to running the dribble drive.

When questioned point blank, Saul says he likes that part best and knows the x's and o's. shrug. I guess we will find out. They have the players they want.

Here is an except from Saul's interview with Jason when Tubby first arrived:

http://archive.commercialappeal.com/spor...7971.html/

Jason--Question: Do you enjoy the recruiting part of it, the grinding and making the calls? I get the feeling (fellow Memphis assistant coach) Joe (Esposito) loves that part of it. He seems to really eat it up. Or do you enjoy the Xs and Os (of coaching) more?

Saul--Answer: If I had to put one ahead of the other, obviously I love the Xs and Os, the preparation on the court and the teaching and skill development stuff. The last few years I was doing a lot of analytics up at Texas Tech, which was new to me. I feel like I'm pretty decently well-versed in some of that stuff now, being that I've been to two or three seminars every summer mainly with NBA guys and the higher-level analytic guys.

Recruiting, to me, is the lifeblood of a program. But the great thing about working for a guy like Coach Smith is if a player is not interested or kind of puts us to the side, we don't even worry about it. We just move on to the next kid.

etc....