(05-23-2017 12:53 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Looks absolutely great. Too bad you can't go directly to phase 2. I knew you were tearing down the current clam shell bleachers and putting in new stands on each side.

The pace of the process has been painfully slow. I think the main impediment to going straight to 30K is funding. We're trying to build this while lessening dependence on student fees due to state law and several other projects. There's not enough room to build too big there but there won't be a bad seat in the place. As you mentioned it will be 100% chairback when finished. Some would say that's excessive. In fact if you want to start some ****, go over to ODU's board and say that you think we could probably get a few thousand more seats in if we just made the upperdeck benchback or bleacher seating. It would actually be a nice break from the bickering over whether Jeff Jones deserves one more year or two to get us back to the NCAA's. The clamshells have to go though.

(05-23-2017 12:27 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 12:17 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 11:59 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 03:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Maybe. If its 2 million the media value concept behind a large footprint conference is essentially dead. You dont need to send volleyball across the nation for 2 million. Reorganization of the G5 would become a "when" not "if" proposition. That said, CUSA had slightly less travel and only made 1.4 million a team--so, maybe the schools prefer to stay with schools they perceive as "institutional peers". I think you'd do better at the gate and lower costs with little change in media value if the two AAC divisions simply became the core of two new smaller more regional conference (but that has other issues).

Let's say the AAC TV contract stays the same and the league decides to add a few teams. What do you think about adding USM, Marshall, App, and Ark. State? They would each provide a travel partner for a current member (USM/Tulane, Marshall/Cincy, App/ECU, A. State/Memphis), and they have a history of both on field success and solid attendance. It would make for two very reasonable 7 team divisions. For football Navy would play in the West in place of Wichita.

Here is their attendance from 2016 compared to current AAC members. Keep in mind these numbers are against some less than desirable opponents in the current conferences.

ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
S. Miss. 28,588
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
App St. 26,153
Marshall 24,760
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Ark St. 22,700
Tulsa 19,234

If the AAC did need or decide to expand, then a Southern Miss, Marshall, and Old Dominion, for example, would probably be at the top of list.

Old Dominion is really starting to grow on me with their ability to get a lot of ACC home games. If they had a nice big stadium.....from an ECU standpoint, I'd choose them.--if forced to expand. No expansion until that day comes.

Of course App has signed multiple ACC teams for home games as well. Had 35,000 for Miami last year, Wake coming this year, and UNC-CH in a few years. Expansion plans and track removal are being made as we speak.

(05-23-2017 11:59 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Let's say the AAC TV contract stays the same and the league decides to add a few teams. What do you think about adding USM, Marshall, App, and Ark. State? They would each provide a travel partner for a current member (USM/Tulane, Marshall/Cincy, App/ECU, A. State/Memphis), and they have a history of both on field success and solid attendance. It would make for two very reasonable 8 team divisions. For football Navy would play in the West in place of Wichita.

Here is their attendance from 2016 compared to current AAC members. Keep in mind these numbers are against some less than desirable opponents in the current conferences.

ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
S. Miss. 28,588
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
App St. 26,153
Marshall 24,760
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Ark St. 22,700
Tulsa 19,234

All in the bottom half, which negatively impacts the metrics and lowers the AAC's prestige.

Improve the conference metrics and prestige with the following:

BYU 58,569
ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
SDSU 37,289
UCF 35,802
Boise 34,273
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
AFA 29,587
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Tulsa 19,234

Within legitimate striking distance to have 6 teams over the 40K threshold, 9 over 35K, and 13 teams over the 30K threshold.

SMU and Tulane have a lot of work to do and I don't know that Tulsa even has capacity to get 30K attendance.

(05-23-2017 12:50 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 12:25 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Re: the AAC is like Round Rock in between Austin and Dallas.

Bad Analogy. The AAC is like a Temple/Killeen or Waco in between and Austin (G4) and Dallas (P5).

but it isn't

there is no metric out there where the aac comes close to being halfway between P5 and G5

In fairness, it's not accurate to define the AAC on metrics where it formally has no current control over the situation, like TV contracts and place in the CFP hierarchy. We already know that formally, by contract, the AAC is 100% a G5 conference no different from the MAC, Sun Belt, etc.

The issue is the informal measures, and on the two biggest ones, football performance on the field, and attendance, we're not a tweener. On the field, we're about 33% of the way between the G5 and P5, on attendance, about 25%.

So if the G5 is Los Angeles and the P5 is Miami, we're around El Paso. Still much closer, "out west", to the G5.

(05-23-2017 04:07 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 11:59 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Let's say the AAC TV contract stays the same and the league decides to add a few teams. What do you think about adding USM, Marshall, App, and Ark. State? They would each provide a travel partner for a current member (USM/Tulane, Marshall/Cincy, App/ECU, A. State/Memphis), and they have a history of both on field success and solid attendance. It would make for two very reasonable 8 team divisions. For football Navy would play in the West in place of Wichita.

Here is their attendance from 2016 compared to current AAC members. Keep in mind these numbers are against some less than desirable opponents in the current conferences.

ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
S. Miss. 28,588
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
App St. 26,153
Marshall 24,760
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Ark St. 22,700
Tulsa 19,234

All in the bottom half, which negatively impacts the metrics and lowers the AAC's prestige.

Improve the conference metrics and prestige with the following:

BYU 58,569
ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
SDSU 37,289
UCF 35,802
Boise 34,273
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
AFA 29,587
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Tulsa 19,234

Within legitimate striking distance to have 6 teams over the 40K threshold, 9 over 35K, and 13 teams over the 30K threshold.

SMU and Tulane have a lot of work to do and I don't know that Tulsa even has capacity to get 30K attendance.

Southern Mississippi would slip in between Air Force and Temple with their attendance. I saw that Old Dominion is stable with attendance, but building more seats to their stadium could boast them up some, but they also have the spending budget already for the AAC.

(05-23-2017 05:26 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 04:07 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 11:59 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Let's say the AAC TV contract stays the same and the league decides to add a few teams. What do you think about adding USM, Marshall, App, and Ark. State? They would each provide a travel partner for a current member (USM/Tulane, Marshall/Cincy, App/ECU, A. State/Memphis), and they have a history of both on field success and solid attendance. It would make for two very reasonable 8 team divisions. For football Navy would play in the West in place of Wichita.

Here is their attendance from 2016 compared to current AAC members. Keep in mind these numbers are against some less than desirable opponents in the current conferences.

ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
S. Miss. 28,588
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
App St. 26,153
Marshall 24,760
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Ark St. 22,700
Tulsa 19,234

All in the bottom half, which negatively impacts the metrics and lowers the AAC's prestige.

Improve the conference metrics and prestige with the following:

BYU 58,569
ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
SDSU 37,289
UCF 35,802
Boise 34,273
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
AFA 29,587
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Tulsa 19,234

Within legitimate striking distance to have 6 teams over the 40K threshold, 9 over 35K, and 13 teams over the 30K threshold.

SMU and Tulane have a lot of work to do and I don't know that Tulsa even has capacity to get 30K attendance.

Southern Mississippi would slip in between Air Force and Temple with their attendance. I saw that Old Dominion is stable with attendance, but building more seats to their stadium could boast them up some, but they also have the spending budget already for the AAC.

Southern Miss and Old Dominion would also fit in the footprint.

But, Air Force and Boise St. would *easily* and dramatically improve the AAC's prestige and the national perception of the AAC's position in the FBS ranks.

The simple add of bracket-busting Wichita St. promptly brought together the AAC tournament and the 2018 CBS broadcast.

(05-23-2017 05:53 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 05:26 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 04:07 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 11:59 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Let's say the AAC TV contract stays the same and the league decides to add a few teams. What do you think about adding USM, Marshall, App, and Ark. State? They would each provide a travel partner for a current member (USM/Tulane, Marshall/Cincy, App/ECU, A. State/Memphis), and they have a history of both on field success and solid attendance. It would make for two very reasonable 8 team divisions. For football Navy would play in the West in place of Wichita.

Here is their attendance from 2016 compared to current AAC members. Keep in mind these numbers are against some less than desirable opponents in the current conferences.

ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
S. Miss. 28,588
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
App St. 26,153
Marshall 24,760
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Ark St. 22,700
Tulsa 19,234

All in the bottom half, which negatively impacts the metrics and lowers the AAC's prestige.

Improve the conference metrics and prestige with the following:

BYU 58,569
ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
SDSU 37,289
UCF 35,802
Boise 34,273
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
AFA 29,587
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Tulsa 19,234

Within legitimate striking distance to have 6 teams over the 40K threshold, 9 over 35K, and 13 teams over the 30K threshold.

SMU and Tulane have a lot of work to do and I don't know that Tulsa even has capacity to get 30K attendance.

Southern Mississippi would slip in between Air Force and Temple with their attendance. I saw that Old Dominion is stable with attendance, but building more seats to their stadium could boast them up some, but they also have the spending budget already for the AAC.

Southern Miss and Old Dominion would also fit in the footprint.

But, Air Force and Boise St. would *easily* and dramatically improve the AAC's prestige and the national perception of the AAC's position in the FBS ranks.

The simple add of bracket-busting Wichita St. promptly brought together the AAC tournament and the 2018 CBS broadcast.

Well, that and the Big10 couldnt fill their normal broadcast slots due to a schedule shift required for MSG to accomodate the Big10 Tourney this coming season. That said, Im sure Wichita played a role in the AAC being considered as an interesting replacement for CBS.

2016 TV > 4M viewers

PAC = 5
B12 = 4
AAC = 3
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 3M viewers

PAC = 9
B12 = 9
AAC = 4
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 2M viewers

PAC = 17
B12 = 15
AAC = 10
MWC = 1
CUSA = 1

2016 TV > 1M viewers

PAC = 34
B12 = 29
AAC = 12
MWC = 3
CUSA = 2

2016 TV > 500K viewers

PAC = 48
B12 = 47
AAC = 19
MWC = 10
CUSA = 5

(05-23-2017 06:57 PM)YNot Wrote:  2016 TV > 4M viewers

PAC = 5
B12 = 4
AAC = 3
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 3M viewers

PAC = 9
B12 = 9
AAC = 4
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 2M viewers

PAC = 17
B12 = 15
AAC = 10
MWC = 1
CUSA = 1

2016 TV > 1M viewers

PAC = 34
B12 = 29
AAC = 12
MWC = 3
CUSA = 2

2016 TV > 500K viewers

PAC = 48
B12 = 47
AAC = 19
MWC = 10
CUSA = 5

Never seen it broken down like that. Interesting visual. Thanks for putting that together Ynot. +3

Given the AAC will command something in the 5-8 million dollar range, I think that makes a good case for the AAC likely attracting a fair amount of interest next time around. A network like NBC could do well using the AAC to pair with Notre Dame broadcasts. For ESPN, those numbers suggest the better AAC games would be good content to fill the Big10 inventory that is now heading over to FOX. Of course trhe AAC wont replace Michigan-Ohio St---but the better AAC games should be just fine plugging holes left by Rutgers-Indiana or Purdue-Minnesota. The streamers might see it as good mid-tier property to use as a way to enter the college football market as well. When I see numbers like that I get a bit more optimistic that the next deal wont be a disappointing bust.

(05-23-2017 06:57 PM)YNot Wrote:  2016 TV > 4M viewers

PAC = 5
B12 = 4
AAC = 3
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 3M viewers

PAC = 9
B12 = 9
AAC = 4
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 2M viewers

PAC = 17
B12 = 15
AAC = 10
MWC = 1
CUSA = 1

2016 TV > 1M viewers

PAC = 34
B12 = 29
AAC = 12
MWC = 3
CUSA = 2

2016 TV > 500K viewers

PAC = 48
B12 = 47
AAC = 19
MWC = 10
CUSA = 5

Are you counting PAC 12 network, CBS-SN, FS1, and ABC/ESPN games as the same thing? Only 2 of those 5 have any audience.

(05-23-2017 04:07 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 11:59 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Let's say the AAC TV contract stays the same and the league decides to add a few teams. What do you think about adding USM, Marshall, App, and Ark. State? They would each provide a travel partner for a current member (USM/Tulane, Marshall/Cincy, App/ECU, A. State/Memphis), and they have a history of both on field success and solid attendance. It would make for two very reasonable 8 team divisions. For football Navy would play in the West in place of Wichita.

Here is their attendance from 2016 compared to current AAC members. Keep in mind these numbers are against some less than desirable opponents in the current conferences.

ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
S. Miss. 28,588
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
App St. 26,153
Marshall 24,760
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Ark St. 22,700
Tulsa 19,234

All in the bottom half, which negatively impacts the metrics and lowers the AAC's prestige.

Improve the conference metrics and prestige with the following:

BYU 58,569
ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
SDSU 37,289
UCF 35,802
Boise 34,273
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
AFA 29,587
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Tulsa 19,234

Within legitimate striking distance to have 6 teams over the 40K threshold, 9 over 35K, and 13 teams over the 30K threshold.

SMU and Tulane have a lot of work to do and I don't know that Tulsa even has capacity to get 30K attendance.

It's actually kind of a shame that the Catholic 7 hadn't dumped the old Big East sooner. Tulane for all sports was allegedly the straw that broke the camel's back. Imagine if the full sports slots that became Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa could have been instead been used to build a 14-16 member coast to coast league with BYU, Boise St, San Diego St, and Air Force being the top 4 western picks. Fill it out with the the likes of Colorado St, New Mexico, and UNLV and maybe something could have been worked out. Maybe ECU still sneaks in to help out the East.

(05-20-2017 08:01 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Can the AAC become a true tweener conference?
NO

Can half of the AAC beat Georgia Tech? YES

(05-23-2017 08:24 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 06:57 PM)YNot Wrote:  2016 TV > 4M viewers

PAC = 5
B12 = 4
AAC = 3
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 3M viewers

PAC = 9
B12 = 9
AAC = 4
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 2M viewers

PAC = 17
B12 = 15
AAC = 10
MWC = 1
CUSA = 1

2016 TV > 1M viewers

PAC = 34
B12 = 29
AAC = 12
MWC = 3
CUSA = 2

2016 TV > 500K viewers

PAC = 48
B12 = 47
AAC = 19
MWC = 10
CUSA = 5

Are you counting PAC 12 network, CBS-SN, FS1, and ABC/ESPN games as the same thing? Only 2 of those 5 have any audience.

Neilson does not have FS2, Fox Sports local region, CBS Sports, NBC Sports, ESPNU, ESPNNews, SEC Network, Longhorn Network, PAC 12 Network, Big 10 Network and so forth. So, it is hard to determine what the ratings are for those games. The tv viewership ratings for college sports are determined by ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, Local Independent Channels that have college sports like one channel gets ABC Big 12 games when SEC interrupts ABC/ESPN in my area, FS1, ESPN, ESPN2. Even BET got college football tv ratings when they show HBCU games on there a few years back. What channels are missing sports programming that used to have sports? TBS, TNT, BET, USA, WGN, Etc. I would like to see TBS and TNT pick up college football like they did with college basketball. MWC, AAC, C-USA, MAC and Sun Belt Conference would love to sign a deal with them. Maybe some FCS conferences could try to get in the act?

(05-23-2017 08:24 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 06:57 PM)YNot Wrote:  2016 TV > 4M viewers

PAC = 5
B12 = 4
AAC = 3
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 3M viewers

PAC = 9
B12 = 9
AAC = 4
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 2M viewers

PAC = 17
B12 = 15
AAC = 10
MWC = 1
CUSA = 1

2016 TV > 1M viewers

PAC = 34
B12 = 29
AAC = 12
MWC = 3
CUSA = 2

2016 TV > 500K viewers

PAC = 48
B12 = 47
AAC = 19
MWC = 10
CUSA = 5

Are you counting PAC 12 network, CBS-SN, FS1, and ABC/ESPN games as the same thing? Only 2 of those 5 have any audience.

I used the empirical data from the reported TV viewership and ratings. PACN and CBSSN do not report viewership and ratings data. FS1 and all the ESPN and over-the-air channels do (including ESPNU and ESPNNews). [Also, BEIN reports viewership....and its pretty bad. Many CUSA games garnered >10K viewership].

I recognize that ABC and FS1 and ESPNU are not the same thing - the viewership clearly documents that.

And the very fact that the AAC is picked for better ABC or ESPN broadcasts over MWC, CUSA, Sun Belt, and MAC - and thus has a likelihood of better ratings - basically further establishes the point.

IMO, the attendance and viewership/broadcast selection results show that the AAC already is a tweener conference. Most of the conference gets attendance and viewership equal to the low-end P5 schools and significantly better than the average G5 schools.

The AAC lacks any true power schools - and this is precisely why the AAC is not, and likely never will be, a power conference. But, the AAC is mostly made up of schools that would fit in okay in the ACC or Big 12.

(05-23-2017 09:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It's actually kind of a shame that the Catholic 7 hadn't dumped the old Big East sooner. Tulane for all sports was allegedly the straw that broke the camel's back. Imagine if the full sports slots that became Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa could have been instead been used to build a 14-16 member coast to coast league with BYU, Boise St, San Diego St, and Air Force being the top 4 western picks. Fill it out with the the likes of Colorado St, New Mexico, and UNLV and maybe something could have been worked out. Maybe ECU still sneaks in to help out the East.

EAST
ECU 44,113
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
[Tulane 22,718]

WEST
BYU 58,569
Houston 38,953
SDSU 37,289
Boise 34,273
Navy 31,571
AFA 29,587
SMU 23,712
[Tulsa 19,234]

While I might agree that CSU, UNM, and UNLV have higher ceilings than Tulsa and Tulane, they don't have the metrics to support the decision.

(05-24-2017 11:02 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 09:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It's actually kind of a shame that the Catholic 7 hadn't dumped the old Big East sooner. Tulane for all sports was allegedly the straw that broke the camel's back. Imagine if the full sports slots that became Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa could have been instead been used to build a 14-16 member coast to coast league with BYU, Boise St, San Diego St, and Air Force being the top 4 western picks. Fill it out with the the likes of Colorado St, New Mexico, and UNLV and maybe something could have been worked out. Maybe ECU still sneaks in to help out the East.

EAST
ECU 44,113
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
[Tulane 22,718]

WEST
BYU 58,569
Houston 38,953
SDSU 37,289
Boise 34,273
Navy 31,571
AFA 29,587
SMU 23,712
[Tulsa 19,234]

While I might agree that CSU, UNM, and UNLV have higher ceilings than Tulsa and Tulane, they don't have the metrics to support the decision.

Take those 3 additional schools and throw in Army!

4 Pods of 5 schools each:

West: San Diego St, Boise St, UNLV, Colorado St, New Mexico
Central: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis
East: Central Florida, South Florida, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Connecticut
National: BYU, Army, Navy, Air Force, Temple

I placed Temple into the "National" division because they are in Philadelphia which is a major historical city, a common home for the Army-Navy game, among others.

(05-24-2017 11:02 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 09:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It's actually kind of a shame that the Catholic 7 hadn't dumped the old Big East sooner. Tulane for all sports was allegedly the straw that broke the camel's back. Imagine if the full sports slots that became Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa could have been instead been used to build a 14-16 member coast to coast league with BYU, Boise St, San Diego St, and Air Force being the top 4 western picks. Fill it out with the the likes of Colorado St, New Mexico, and UNLV and maybe something could have been worked out. Maybe ECU still sneaks in to help out the East.

EAST
ECU 44,113
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
[Tulane 22,718]

WEST
BYU 58,569
Houston 38,953
SDSU 37,289
Boise 34,273
Navy 31,571
AFA 29,587
SMU 23,712
[Tulsa 19,234]

While I might agree that CSU, UNM, and UNLV have higher ceilings than Tulsa and Tulane, they don't have the metrics to support the decision.

I'm sure BYU would love this as they have isolated themselves, but I doubt you're going to get the others to leave the MWC for basically a lateral move that would have them in a conference covering the entire country. Makes no sense for them.

(05-23-2017 09:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 04:07 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 11:59 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Let's say the AAC TV contract stays the same and the league decides to add a few teams. What do you think about adding USM, Marshall, App, and Ark. State? They would each provide a travel partner for a current member (USM/Tulane, Marshall/Cincy, App/ECU, A. State/Memphis), and they have a history of both on field success and solid attendance. It would make for two very reasonable 8 team divisions. For football Navy would play in the West in place of Wichita.

Here is their attendance from 2016 compared to current AAC members. Keep in mind these numbers are against some less than desirable opponents in the current conferences.

ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
S. Miss. 28,588
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
App St. 26,153
Marshall 24,760
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Ark St. 22,700
Tulsa 19,234

All in the bottom half, which negatively impacts the metrics and lowers the AAC's prestige.

Improve the conference metrics and prestige with the following:

BYU 58,569
ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
SDSU 37,289
UCF 35,802
Boise 34,273
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
AFA 29,587
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Tulsa 19,234

Within legitimate striking distance to have 6 teams over the 40K threshold, 9 over 35K, and 13 teams over the 30K threshold.

SMU and Tulane have a lot of work to do and I don't know that Tulsa even has capacity to get 30K attendance.

It's actually kind of a shame that the Catholic 7 hadn't dumped the old Big East sooner. Tulane for all sports was allegedly the straw that broke the camel's back. Imagine if the full sports slots that became Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa could have been instead been used to build a 14-16 member coast to coast league with BYU, Boise St, San Diego St, and Air Force being the top 4 western picks. Fill it out with the the likes of Colorado St, New Mexico, and UNLV and maybe something could have been worked out. Maybe ECU still sneaks in to help out the East.

Except for the pesky fact that Colorado State had announced that they were happy with the MW and wouldn't leave for what later became the AAC. Oh, and that Air Force also publicly refuted the BE/AAC when it was rumored that the Air Force Academy would move their Olympic Sports to the MVC and join the BE for FB. And that New Mexico and UNLV NEVER gave the slightest indication that they would be interested in joining the AAC.

The AAC got Tulsa and Tulane because they were the teams available. People talk about CSU and Air Force like somehow the AAC turned THEM down, but in fact it's the other way around.

You can't add teams that don't want to be part of your conference.

(05-24-2017 12:31 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 09:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 04:07 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 11:59 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Let's say the AAC TV contract stays the same and the league decides to add a few teams. What do you think about adding USM, Marshall, App, and Ark. State? They would each provide a travel partner for a current member (USM/Tulane, Marshall/Cincy, App/ECU, A. State/Memphis), and they have a history of both on field success and solid attendance. It would make for two very reasonable 8 team divisions. For football Navy would play in the West in place of Wichita.

Here is their attendance from 2016 compared to current AAC members. Keep in mind these numbers are against some less than desirable opponents in the current conferences.

ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
UCF 35,802
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
S. Miss. 28,588
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
App St. 26,153
Marshall 24,760
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Ark St. 22,700
Tulsa 19,234

All in the bottom half, which negatively impacts the metrics and lowers the AAC's prestige.

Improve the conference metrics and prestige with the following:

BYU 58,569
ECU 44,113
Houston 38,953
South Fla. 37,539
Memphis 37,346
SDSU 37,289
UCF 35,802
Boise 34,273
Cincinnati 33,585
Navy 31,571
AFA 29,587
Temple 27,225
UConn 26,796
SMU 23,712
Tulane 22,718
Tulsa 19,234

Within legitimate striking distance to have 6 teams over the 40K threshold, 9 over 35K, and 13 teams over the 30K threshold.

SMU and Tulane have a lot of work to do and I don't know that Tulsa even has capacity to get 30K attendance.

It's actually kind of a shame that the Catholic 7 hadn't dumped the old Big East sooner. Tulane for all sports was allegedly the straw that broke the camel's back. Imagine if the full sports slots that became Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa could have been instead been used to build a 14-16 member coast to coast league with BYU, Boise St, San Diego St, and Air Force being the top 4 western picks. Fill it out with the the likes of Colorado St, New Mexico, and UNLV and maybe something could have been worked out. Maybe ECU still sneaks in to help out the East.

Except for the pesky fact that Colorado State had announced that they were happy with the MW and wouldn't leave for what later became the AAC. Oh, and that Air Force also publicly refuted the BE/AAC when it was rumored that the Air Force Academy would move their Olympic Sports to the MVC and join the BE for FB. And that New Mexico and UNLV NEVER gave the slightest indication that they would be interested in joining the AAC.

The AAC got Tulsa and Tulane because they were the teams available. People talk about CSU and Air Force like somehow the AAC turned THEM down, but in fact it's the other way around.

You can't add teams that don't want to be part of your conference.

To be fair, because the C7 were adamantly opposed to "all sports" invites to western teams, the AAC "football only" memberships (that would have left CSU and AF olympic sports scrambling for subpar options) were not very attractive.

Most of the stuff Aresco takes flak on was realistically out of his control. However---this is the one place where I do think better strategic thinking on Aresco's part would have made a difference. He was well aware there was a very high chance the C7 were out the door no matter who he added. He should have kept his powder dry until the C7 had committed in writing one way or the other before making any more additions, Making additions that were acceptable to the C7 may (or may not) have been the best choice for a conference moving forward with no C7. It would have been better to wait before making any membership decisions until we knew everyone voting was sticking around.

If in December, there is no Tulane or ECU---upgrading Boise and SDSU to all sports members while extending all sports offers to multiple MW teams may have been a far more attractive offer than the "football only" offers that were rejected. There would have been a very solid "western division" with no issues about where to place olympic sports, Travel, could have been controled through the extensive use of divisions in non-revenue sports.

Maybe it wouldnt have mattered---but the decision certainly would have been more difficult. The reality is that is how it SHOULD have been played--but wasnt.

(05-24-2017 10:52 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 08:24 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 06:57 PM)YNot Wrote:  2016 TV > 4M viewers

PAC = 5
B12 = 4
AAC = 3
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 3M viewers

PAC = 9
B12 = 9
AAC = 4
MWC = 0
CUSA = 0

2016 TV > 2M viewers

PAC = 17
B12 = 15
AAC = 10
MWC = 1
CUSA = 1

2016 TV > 1M viewers

PAC = 34
B12 = 29
AAC = 12
MWC = 3
CUSA = 2

2016 TV > 500K viewers

PAC = 48
B12 = 47
AAC = 19
MWC = 10
CUSA = 5

Are you counting PAC 12 network, CBS-SN, FS1, and ABC/ESPN games as the same thing? Only 2 of those 5 have any audience.

I used the empirical data from the reported TV viewership and ratings. PACN and CBSSN do not report viewership and ratings data. FS1 and all the ESPN and over-the-air channels do (including ESPNU and ESPNNews). [Also, BEIN reports viewership....and its pretty bad. Many CUSA games garnered >10K viewership].

I recognize that ABC and FS1 and ESPNU are not the same thing - the viewership clearly documents that.

And the very fact that the AAC is picked for better ABC or ESPN broadcasts over MWC, CUSA, Sun Belt, and MAC - and thus has a likelihood of better ratings - basically further establishes the point.

IMO, the attendance and viewership/broadcast selection results show that the AAC already is a tweener conference. Most of the conference gets attendance and viewership equal to the low-end P5 schools and significantly better than the average G5 schools.

The AAC lacks any true power schools - and this is precisely why the AAC is not, and likely never will be, a power conference. But, the AAC is mostly made up of schools that would fit in okay in the ACC or Big 12.

Seems I remember MWC basketball championship was on CBS network and AAC was not. The AAC is no better than MW, let reality, in, you guys will feel better.


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