(04-22-2017 09:34 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 09:25 AM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 08:23 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 11:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 02:41 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Could there be cause-effect with "Tubby's way"? That is, could his results be dependent upon getting under-valued players? Are they hungrier? More coachable?

It's silly logic to say all other variables are constant, so the results from one recruit would be even greater with a higher rated recruit. Basketball is not a controlled environment.

The constant variable is that you do better when you have better recruits. Very few coaches win without them and the ones that do would win more if they had more of them.

Let's say Tubby makes the tournament with 4 top 20 Jucos, a couple of borderline 4 stars and 3 stars sprinkled in. Don't you think he would do better if his entire roster was comprised of players in the top 100 along with the occasional 5 star?

And Tubby's way until last year's stupidity on the part of our admin hadn't landed him a better opportunity than Minnesota or Texas Tech and 1 measly NCAA win the last 9 seasons.

Really...how far did Calipari get in the NCAA tourney this year and last year with all of those 5* recruits? If you can coach, you don't need an entire roster comprised of 4 and 5*s. Smdh

It just shows your lack of understanding

No lack of understanding here, Keith. I said if you can coach, your entire roster does not need all 5* in order to win. There have been mid majors that defied these odds due to great coaching skills. I still like Calipari but with the kind of talent he gets every year, he should have won more than one championship.

It might depend on your definition of "win". Tubby said his goal at Memphis was to win National Championships. He won't do that with the players he has now. That is his goal, mine is closer to Sweet 16s. That remains to be seen if he can do that, but I am skeptical.

(04-21-2017 11:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 02:41 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 10:01 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-20-2017 03:41 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-20-2017 02:58 PM)CUSA_NEWS Wrote:  He also said the Lawson's departure was as big as Cal leaving Memphis.

If only it was April 1st when he said that...

If you have a big picture mindset, it is huge.

Obviously, with Keelon we get Chandler and Johnathan. And KJ (yeah, i Know). Keeps up strong with DJ Jeffries.

Keelon's wife coaches the Team Penny U16 team. Keelon, as a father of Chandler and Johnathan, wasn't restricted by recruiting rules (no contact, dead periods, etc) to have contact with prospects.

He could have, in fact, had barbecues with the aau kids at his house, talked up Memphis to the parents, had those kid's "people" over. Plus he knew the Memphis landscape.

Instead you have Better not Call Saul leaving messages on D2 dad's office phones about coming to talk.

Pfft.

I agree with everything in this post. It really is unbelievable. Another thing that doesn't get mentioned very often is that even IF Tubby does well, he won't do as well as he should by virtue of his recruiting.

He is doing things his way and I suppose will get his type of recruits, but there are dozens of better recruits within a 200 mile radius of Memphis than there are in Minneapolis (or wherever they are) and Lubbock. Memphis also obviously has a much better brand than either Minnesota or Texas Tech.

Let's say you go to a store and there are 10 pairs of shoes and you can choose the shoes you like and have most of them. Tubby has that choice and isn't even in the running for 8 of them.

His crappy recruiting is leaving so much talent on the table, it's discouraging.

Could there be cause-effect with "Tubby's way"? That is, could his results be dependent upon getting under-valued players? Are they hungrier? More coachable?

It's silly logic to say all other variables are constant, so the results from one recruit would be even greater with a higher rated recruit. Basketball is not a controlled environment.

The constant variable is that you do better when you have better recruits. Very few coaches win without them and the ones that do would win more if they had more of them.

Let's say Tubby makes the tournament with 4 top 20 Jucos, a couple of borderline 4 stars and 3 stars sprinkled in. Don't you think he would do better if his entire roster was comprised of players in the top 100 along with the occasional 5 star?

And Tubby's way until last year's stupidity on the part of our admin hadn't landed him a better opportunity than Minnesota or Texas Tech and 1 measly NCAA win the last 9 seasons.

We have to wait till he actually pulls in some borderline 4 stars before we will know.

The entire premise of the original comment is that Saul should have never been a member of this staff.

There has long been speculation that the reason Orlando was fired at Minnesota is because he refused to fire Saul.

After Minnesota, Saul was turned down for a job as a Div 2 head coach.

Even Texas Tech would not allow Saul as an active coach.

Yet after all of this we not only allow him to be on staff but we allowed Orlando to run off a solid connection to the top recruits in the area in order to put Saul on staff.

Saul should have gotten job of DBO or video Coordinator at Memphis. He should have NEVER of been an active coach on staff.

As it is Bowen and Rudd should pressure Orlando to move Saul into a position where he cannot do any more damage.

(04-22-2017 09:41 AM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 09:34 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 09:25 AM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 08:23 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 11:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  The constant variable is that you do better when you have better recruits. Very few coaches win without them and the ones that do would win more if they had more of them.

Let's say Tubby makes the tournament with 4 top 20 Jucos, a couple of borderline 4 stars and 3 stars sprinkled in. Don't you think he would do better if his entire roster was comprised of players in the top 100 along with the occasional 5 star?

And Tubby's way until last year's stupidity on the part of our admin hadn't landed him a better opportunity than Minnesota or Texas Tech and 1 measly NCAA win the last 9 seasons.

Really...how far did Calipari get in the NCAA tourney this year and last year with all of those 5* recruits? If you can coach, you don't need an entire roster comprised of 4 and 5*s. Smdh

It just shows your lack of understanding

No lack of understanding here, Keith. I said if you can coach, your entire roster does not need all 5* in order to win. There have been mid majors that defied these odds due to great coaching skills. I still like Calipari but with the kind of talent he gets every year, he should have won more than one championship.

It might depend on your definition of "win". Tubby said his goal at Memphis was to win National Championships. He won't do that with the players he has now. That is his goal, mine is closer to Sweet 16s. That remains to be seen if he can do that, but I am skeptical.

He has won a national championship before, therefore, one would conclusively think the guy knows what it takes to build such a caliber type team. Skeptical, based on what? The guy's proven track record of rebuilding programs at other schools, getting beyond the 1st round in the NCAA tourney, being a tremendous X's and O's coach, or the guy being a reputable, legendary HOF coach? Again, I ask respectfully where does your skepticism lie?

Interesting article from the March 2013 Daily Gopher.....sound familiar?

Quote:After Tubby's honeymoon period, the Minnesota basketball program was rarely fun. A slew of players transferred. Royce White and Devoe Joseph took part in melodramas that would make for a great Bravo reality show. Tubby pointed fingers alternately at his players and the lack of a practice facility. Tubby often seemed unable in press conferences to pinpoint what ailed his teams. On most occasions Tubby's players didn't play with confidence. No one seemed to be having much fun.

But in my view the main reason Norwood Teague pulled the trigger on Tubby Smith is because of the relatively incompetent way he coached and built his team. It's been covered in comment sections, but here are a few recent examples:

Against Illinois in the B1G tournament opener, the Gophers, after a timeout, couldn't get the ball inbounds from the side when they had a chance to take a last shot. Brandon Paul said thank you and knocked down a buzzer beater. This was not the only time this happened and it was all rather bizarre watching the players look to achieve the inbounding feat.

Against Florida, the Gophers didn't seem to understand that the way to beat the press was to get the basketball to the middle of the floor. They were trying to pass cross-court or up the sidelines, in exactly the locations Florida was trapping. When they tried to get the ball inbounds against the press, on a couple of occasions Elliot Eliason sprinted to the corner. He should have been flashing to the middle to take away the sideline as a third defender.

Again against Florida, Tubby made a defensive adjustment and had the Gophers switch on every screen. He did this often. This worked temporarily until Billy Donovan exploited it and found low-post or perimeter mis-matches. This is what resulted in Andre Hollins' fourth foul. This is something that could work with 5 athletes on the floor, but once Tubby put Eliason back in the game, the big fella had no prayer in manning up against Florida's guards.

Throughout his tenure, Tubby's offense was cringe-worthy. This season the Gophers were running the flex offense along with some high-low and pick and roll looks. The flex in particular was run with a lackadaisical approach. Cuts were slow and deliberate. At times off-the-ball movement stopped. It was almost as if the players were still learning the offense.

And I've tried to block out of my mind how Tubby's teams dealt with zone defenses of any kind and I refuse to remember the game this year at Iowa.

In addition to Tubby's in-game tactics, Tubby Smith didn't seem to have a vision for the program. How did he want his team to play basketball and win game?. We heard a lot about the Gophers doing better out of conference because they could get away from the slow-it-down B1G pace. But if Tubby wanted a run and gun team with athletes, why did he recruit Ralph Sampson III? Maurice Walker? Maverick Ahanmisi? Colton Iverson? Andre Ingram? Oto Oseneiks? Round pegs, square holes. Or maybe just random pegs.

Tubby Smith wasn't fired Monday because he was a bad guy, immoral or a cheater. He was fired because his program wasn't fun, had no direction and his coaching was, at best, suspect.

(04-22-2017 09:53 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  He has won a national championship before, therefore, one would conclusively think the guy knows what it takes to build such a caliber type team.

Rick Pitino built that team. Tubby hasn't been able to build a national championship team of his own (or even a Final Four team for that matter).

yea...we do.

#ownit

(04-22-2017 10:02 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  Interesting article from the March 2013 Daily Gopher.....sound familiar?

Quote:After Tubby's honeymoon period, the Minnesota basketball program was rarely fun. A slew of players transferred. Royce White and Devoe Joseph took part in melodramas that would make for a great Bravo reality show. Tubby pointed fingers alternately at his players and the lack of a practice facility. Tubby often seemed unable in press conferences to pinpoint what ailed his teams. On most occasions Tubby's players didn't play with confidence. No one seemed to be having much fun.

But in my view the main reason Norwood Teague pulled the trigger on Tubby Smith is because of the relatively incompetent way he coached and built his team. It's been covered in comment sections, but here are a few recent examples:

Against Illinois in the B1G tournament opener, the Gophers, after a timeout, couldn't get the ball inbounds from the side when they had a chance to take a last shot. Brandon Paul said thank you and knocked down a buzzer beater. This was not the only time this happened and it was all rather bizarre watching the players look to achieve the inbounding feat.
Against Florida, the Gophers didn't seem to understand that the way to beat the press was to get the basketball to the middle of the floor. They were trying to pass cross-court or up the sidelines, in exactly the locations Florida was trapping. When they tried to get the ball inbounds against the press, on a couple of occasions Elliot Eliason sprinted to the corner. He should have been flashing to the middle to take away the sideline as a third defender.
Again against Florida, Tubby made a defensive adjustment and had the Gophers switch on every screen. He did this often. This worked temporarily until Billy Donovan exploited it and found low-post or perimeter mis-matches. This is what resulted in Andre Hollins' fourth foul. This is something that could work with 5 athletes on the floor, but once Tubby put Eliason back in the game, the big fella had no prayer in manning up against Florida's guards.
Throughout his tenure, Tubby's offense was cringe-worthy. This season the Gophers were running the flex offense along with some high-low and pick and roll looks. The flex in particular was run with a lackadaisical approach. Cuts were slow and deliberate. At times off-the-ball movement stopped. It was almost as if the players were still learning the offense.
And I've tried to block out of my mind how Tubby's teams dealt with zone defenses of any kind and I refuse to remember the game this year at Iowa.

In addition to Tubby's in-game tactics, Tubby Smith didn't seem to have a vision for the program. How did he want his team to play basketball and win game?. We heard a lot about the Gophers doing better out of conference because they could get away from the slow-it-down B1G pace. But if Tubby wanted a run and gun team with athletes, why did he recruit Ralph Sampson III? Maurice Walker? Maverick Ahanmisi? Colton Iverson? Andre Ingram? Oto Oseneiks? Round pegs, square holes. Or maybe just random pegs.

Tubby Smith wasn't fired Monday because he was a bad guy, immoral or a cheater. He was fired because his program wasn't fun, had no direction and his coaching was, at best, suspect.

This negative article proves what? A distortion of beliefs ingrained in the mindsets of the Tubby antagonists. His inability as a coach is such, according to this article, that Texas Tech was willing to pay him more than what Memphis offered him in order to keep him as their coach. The truth cannot be denied or fabricated no matter how it's depicted.

(04-22-2017 10:16 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:02 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  Interesting article from the March 2013 Daily Gopher.....sound familiar?

Quote:After Tubby's honeymoon period, the Minnesota basketball program was rarely fun. A slew of players transferred. Royce White and Devoe Joseph took part in melodramas that would make for a great Bravo reality show. Tubby pointed fingers alternately at his players and the lack of a practice facility. Tubby often seemed unable in press conferences to pinpoint what ailed his teams. On most occasions Tubby's players didn't play with confidence. No one seemed to be having much fun.

But in my view the main reason Norwood Teague pulled the trigger on Tubby Smith is because of the relatively incompetent way he coached and built his team. It's been covered in comment sections, but here are a few recent examples:

Against Illinois in the B1G tournament opener, the Gophers, after a timeout, couldn't get the ball inbounds from the side when they had a chance to take a last shot. Brandon Paul said thank you and knocked down a buzzer beater. This was not the only time this happened and it was all rather bizarre watching the players look to achieve the inbounding feat.
Against Florida, the Gophers didn't seem to understand that the way to beat the press was to get the basketball to the middle of the floor. They were trying to pass cross-court or up the sidelines, in exactly the locations Florida was trapping. When they tried to get the ball inbounds against the press, on a couple of occasions Elliot Eliason sprinted to the corner. He should have been flashing to the middle to take away the sideline as a third defender.
Again against Florida, Tubby made a defensive adjustment and had the Gophers switch on every screen. He did this often. This worked temporarily until Billy Donovan exploited it and found low-post or perimeter mis-matches. This is what resulted in Andre Hollins' fourth foul. This is something that could work with 5 athletes on the floor, but once Tubby put Eliason back in the game, the big fella had no prayer in manning up against Florida's guards.
Throughout his tenure, Tubby's offense was cringe-worthy. This season the Gophers were running the flex offense along with some high-low and pick and roll looks. The flex in particular was run with a lackadaisical approach. Cuts were slow and deliberate. At times off-the-ball movement stopped. It was almost as if the players were still learning the offense.
And I've tried to block out of my mind how Tubby's teams dealt with zone defenses of any kind and I refuse to remember the game this year at Iowa.

In addition to Tubby's in-game tactics, Tubby Smith didn't seem to have a vision for the program. How did he want his team to play basketball and win game?. We heard a lot about the Gophers doing better out of conference because they could get away from the slow-it-down B1G pace. But if Tubby wanted a run and gun team with athletes, why did he recruit Ralph Sampson III? Maurice Walker? Maverick Ahanmisi? Colton Iverson? Andre Ingram? Oto Oseneiks? Round pegs, square holes. Or maybe just random pegs.

Tubby Smith wasn't fired Monday because he was a bad guy, immoral or a cheater. He was fired because his program wasn't fun, had no direction and his coaching was, at best, suspect.

This negative article proves what? A distortion of beliefs ingrained in the mindsets of the Tubby antagonists. His inability as a coach is such, according to this article, that Texas Tech was willing to pay him more than what Memphis offered him in order to keep him as their coach. The truth cannot be denied or fabricated no matter how it's depicted.

Interesting article from Feb 2011 Star Tribune....sound familiar?

Quote:Uh, Kentucky: Y'all were right about Tubby

We figured a pungent blend of idiocy and racism drove Smith from a university built for and around basketball greatness, a place where he won a national title and his son played point guard.

Our suspicions were not baseless. Drive through Kentucky, and you still can find the odd Confederate flag and a museum featuring a dinosaur wearing a saddle, celebrating the belief that man and Magnosaurus co-existed.

To those Kentucky fans who based their assessment of Smith on facts and trends, though, let us apologize. You were right.

Four seasons after his arrival, Smith's tenure at the University of Minnesota is officially a disappointment.

Kentucky fans complained that Smith runs no discernible offense.

That he failed to recruit outstanding talent.

That his program had lost momentum and had slid into mediocrity.

So congratulations, Kentucky. We thought Tubby viewed Minnesota as a place he could win. Turns out that when he looks at Goldy Gopher, all he sees is a 401(k).

As a response to posts about types of players needed to win, getting players for a particular type of system, etc. , I will post the following.

Fuente came in here. he recruited no 'blue chip' recruits. But, he brought in good players who he thought would be a good fit for his system. Also, HE DID IT WITHOUT CAUSING A TON OF CHAOS AND TURMOIL HIS FIRST YEAR. After year one, he appeared to know what he was doing. He was a refreshing change after Porter. IMHO, you could say nothing more or nothing less about him at that point. But, it was much better place to be in than where we are now with basketball.

Obviously, this is not a perfect analogy ( football to basketball). But, it is a decent point worth considering.

(04-22-2017 10:16 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:02 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  Interesting article from the March 2013 Daily Gopher.....sound familiar?

Quote:After Tubby's honeymoon period, the Minnesota basketball program was rarely fun. A slew of players transferred. Royce White and Devoe Joseph took part in melodramas that would make for a great Bravo reality show. Tubby pointed fingers alternately at his players and the lack of a practice facility. Tubby often seemed unable in press conferences to pinpoint what ailed his teams. On most occasions Tubby's players didn't play with confidence. No one seemed to be having much fun.

But in my view the main reason Norwood Teague pulled the trigger on Tubby Smith is because of the relatively incompetent way he coached and built his team. It's been covered in comment sections, but here are a few recent examples:

Against Illinois in the B1G tournament opener, the Gophers, after a timeout, couldn't get the ball inbounds from the side when they had a chance to take a last shot. Brandon Paul said thank you and knocked down a buzzer beater. This was not the only time this happened and it was all rather bizarre watching the players look to achieve the inbounding feat.
Against Florida, the Gophers didn't seem to understand that the way to beat the press was to get the basketball to the middle of the floor. They were trying to pass cross-court or up the sidelines, in exactly the locations Florida was trapping. When they tried to get the ball inbounds against the press, on a couple of occasions Elliot Eliason sprinted to the corner. He should have been flashing to the middle to take away the sideline as a third defender.
Again against Florida, Tubby made a defensive adjustment and had the Gophers switch on every screen. He did this often. This worked temporarily until Billy Donovan exploited it and found low-post or perimeter mis-matches. This is what resulted in Andre Hollins' fourth foul. This is something that could work with 5 athletes on the floor, but once Tubby put Eliason back in the game, the big fella had no prayer in manning up against Florida's guards.
Throughout his tenure, Tubby's offense was cringe-worthy. This season the Gophers were running the flex offense along with some high-low and pick and roll looks. The flex in particular was run with a lackadaisical approach. Cuts were slow and deliberate. At times off-the-ball movement stopped. It was almost as if the players were still learning the offense.
And I've tried to block out of my mind how Tubby's teams dealt with zone defenses of any kind and I refuse to remember the game this year at Iowa.

In addition to Tubby's in-game tactics, Tubby Smith didn't seem to have a vision for the program. How did he want his team to play basketball and win game?. We heard a lot about the Gophers doing better out of conference because they could get away from the slow-it-down B1G pace. But if Tubby wanted a run and gun team with athletes, why did he recruit Ralph Sampson III? Maurice Walker? Maverick Ahanmisi? Colton Iverson? Andre Ingram? Oto Oseneiks? Round pegs, square holes. Or maybe just random pegs.

Tubby Smith wasn't fired Monday because he was a bad guy, immoral or a cheater. He was fired because his program wasn't fun, had no direction and his coaching was, at best, suspect.

This negative article proves what? A distortion of beliefs ingrained in the mindsets of the Tubby antagonists. His inability as a coach is such, according to this article, that Texas Tech was willing to pay him more than what Memphis offered him in order to keep him as their coach. The truth cannot be denied or fabricated no matter how it's depicted.

Having read zilch about him, my mind was totally open when Tubby got here. I heard people saying his recruiting was suspect, but that wasn't fazing me. This is Memphis, I was thinking. Recruiting will be a snap here!

Never mind all that now, though. His results and the pickle he's in now speak louder than any words defending or attacking him.

Interesting comments from Tubby himself:

Quote:In 2007, Smith said his move to Minnesota "would take him where he was wanted."

Quote:In 2013, Smith said, "I didn't mean it that way". he said when reminded of the inference that UK did not want him to remain as basketball coach. He noted the distinction between feeling wanted and feeling needed. It was not necessarily that he felt unwanted by UK. After 10 seasons as Kentucky coach, he sensed that Minnesota had a greater need for his talents."

"I tell recruits it's just as important to be needed as wanted," Smith said. "You have to make that determination. How much are you valued? ...

"You don't want to be where you're tolerated," he said, "but where you're celebrated."

(04-22-2017 10:55 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  Interesting comments from Tubby himself:

Quote:In 2007, Smith said his move to Minnesota "would take him where he was wanted."

Quote:In 2013, Smith said, "I didn't mean it that way". he said when reminded of the inference that UK did not want him to remain as basketball coach. He noted the distinction between feeling wanted and feeling needed. It was not necessarily that he felt unwanted by UK. After 10 seasons as Kentucky coach, he sensed that Minnesota had a greater need for his talents."

"I tell recruits it's just as important to be needed as wanted," Smith said. "You have to make that determination. How much are you valued? ...

"You don't want to be where you're tolerated," he said, "but where you're celebrated."

I'm curious as to what you think you've proven? A decade ago Tubby went to Minny and it didn't work out...we already knew that.

(04-22-2017 10:50 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:16 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:02 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  Interesting article from the March 2013 Daily Gopher.....sound familiar?

Quote:After Tubby's honeymoon period, the Minnesota basketball program was rarely fun. A slew of players transferred. Royce White and Devoe Joseph took part in melodramas that would make for a great Bravo reality show. Tubby pointed fingers alternately at his players and the lack of a practice facility. Tubby often seemed unable in press conferences to pinpoint what ailed his teams. On most occasions Tubby's players didn't play with confidence. No one seemed to be having much fun.

But in my view the main reason Norwood Teague pulled the trigger on Tubby Smith is because of the relatively incompetent way he coached and built his team. It's been covered in comment sections, but here are a few recent examples:

Against Illinois in the B1G tournament opener, the Gophers, after a timeout, couldn't get the ball inbounds from the side when they had a chance to take a last shot. Brandon Paul said thank you and knocked down a buzzer beater. This was not the only time this happened and it was all rather bizarre watching the players look to achieve the inbounding feat.
Against Florida, the Gophers didn't seem to understand that the way to beat the press was to get the basketball to the middle of the floor. They were trying to pass cross-court or up the sidelines, in exactly the locations Florida was trapping. When they tried to get the ball inbounds against the press, on a couple of occasions Elliot Eliason sprinted to the corner. He should have been flashing to the middle to take away the sideline as a third defender.
Again against Florida, Tubby made a defensive adjustment and had the Gophers switch on every screen. He did this often. This worked temporarily until Billy Donovan exploited it and found low-post or perimeter mis-matches. This is what resulted in Andre Hollins' fourth foul. This is something that could work with 5 athletes on the floor, but once Tubby put Eliason back in the game, the big fella had no prayer in manning up against Florida's guards.
Throughout his tenure, Tubby's offense was cringe-worthy. This season the Gophers were running the flex offense along with some high-low and pick and roll looks. The flex in particular was run with a lackadaisical approach. Cuts were slow and deliberate. At times off-the-ball movement stopped. It was almost as if the players were still learning the offense.
And I've tried to block out of my mind how Tubby's teams dealt with zone defenses of any kind and I refuse to remember the game this year at Iowa.

In addition to Tubby's in-game tactics, Tubby Smith didn't seem to have a vision for the program. How did he want his team to play basketball and win game?. We heard a lot about the Gophers doing better out of conference because they could get away from the slow-it-down B1G pace. But if Tubby wanted a run and gun team with athletes, why did he recruit Ralph Sampson III? Maurice Walker? Maverick Ahanmisi? Colton Iverson? Andre Ingram? Oto Oseneiks? Round pegs, square holes. Or maybe just random pegs.

Tubby Smith wasn't fired Monday because he was a bad guy, immoral or a cheater. He was fired because his program wasn't fun, had no direction and his coaching was, at best, suspect.

This negative article proves what? A distortion of beliefs ingrained in the mindsets of the Tubby antagonists. His inability as a coach is such, according to this article, that Texas Tech was willing to pay him more than what Memphis offered him in order to keep him as their coach. The truth cannot be denied or fabricated no matter how it's depicted.

Having read zilch about him, my mind was totally open when Tubby got here. I heard people saying his recruiting was suspect, but that wasn't fazing me. This is Memphis, I was thinking. Recruiting will be a snap here!

Never mind all that now, though. His results and the pickle he's in now speak louder than any words defending or attacking him.

I hear you, Snow. However, the bottom line is that a coach should be given more than one year to incorporate or implement his system after one freaking year. It's just ludicrous and unrealistic to blame and crucify a coach when he walked into a chaotic situation from the very beginning.

(04-22-2017 11:28 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:50 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:16 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:02 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  Interesting article from the March 2013 Daily Gopher.....sound familiar?

Quote:After Tubby's honeymoon period, the Minnesota basketball program was rarely fun. A slew of players transferred. Royce White and Devoe Joseph took part in melodramas that would make for a great Bravo reality show. Tubby pointed fingers alternately at his players and the lack of a practice facility. Tubby often seemed unable in press conferences to pinpoint what ailed his teams. On most occasions Tubby's players didn't play with confidence. No one seemed to be having much fun.

But in my view the main reason Norwood Teague pulled the trigger on Tubby Smith is because of the relatively incompetent way he coached and built his team. It's been covered in comment sections, but here are a few recent examples:

Against Illinois in the B1G tournament opener, the Gophers, after a timeout, couldn't get the ball inbounds from the side when they had a chance to take a last shot. Brandon Paul said thank you and knocked down a buzzer beater. This was not the only time this happened and it was all rather bizarre watching the players look to achieve the inbounding feat.
Against Florida, the Gophers didn't seem to understand that the way to beat the press was to get the basketball to the middle of the floor. They were trying to pass cross-court or up the sidelines, in exactly the locations Florida was trapping. When they tried to get the ball inbounds against the press, on a couple of occasions Elliot Eliason sprinted to the corner. He should have been flashing to the middle to take away the sideline as a third defender.
Again against Florida, Tubby made a defensive adjustment and had the Gophers switch on every screen. He did this often. This worked temporarily until Billy Donovan exploited it and found low-post or perimeter mis-matches. This is what resulted in Andre Hollins' fourth foul. This is something that could work with 5 athletes on the floor, but once Tubby put Eliason back in the game, the big fella had no prayer in manning up against Florida's guards.
Throughout his tenure, Tubby's offense was cringe-worthy. This season the Gophers were running the flex offense along with some high-low and pick and roll looks. The flex in particular was run with a lackadaisical approach. Cuts were slow and deliberate. At times off-the-ball movement stopped. It was almost as if the players were still learning the offense.
And I've tried to block out of my mind how Tubby's teams dealt with zone defenses of any kind and I refuse to remember the game this year at Iowa.

In addition to Tubby's in-game tactics, Tubby Smith didn't seem to have a vision for the program. How did he want his team to play basketball and win game?. We heard a lot about the Gophers doing better out of conference because they could get away from the slow-it-down B1G pace. But if Tubby wanted a run and gun team with athletes, why did he recruit Ralph Sampson III? Maurice Walker? Maverick Ahanmisi? Colton Iverson? Andre Ingram? Oto Oseneiks? Round pegs, square holes. Or maybe just random pegs.

Tubby Smith wasn't fired Monday because he was a bad guy, immoral or a cheater. He was fired because his program wasn't fun, had no direction and his coaching was, at best, suspect.

This negative article proves what? A distortion of beliefs ingrained in the mindsets of the Tubby antagonists. His inability as a coach is such, according to this article, that Texas Tech was willing to pay him more than what Memphis offered him in order to keep him as their coach. The truth cannot be denied or fabricated no matter how it's depicted.

Having read zilch about him, my mind was totally open when Tubby got here. I heard people saying his recruiting was suspect, but that wasn't fazing me. This is Memphis, I was thinking. Recruiting will be a snap here!

Never mind all that now, though. His results and the pickle he's in now speak louder than any words defending or attacking him.

I hear you, Snow. However, the bottom line is that a coach should be given more than one year to incorporate or implement his system after one freaking year. It's just ludicrous and unrealistic to blame and crucify a coach when he walked into a chaotic situation from the very beginning.

A Christfigure... is over the top. One of those dudes wasn't getting paid to start a religion.

Besides which, many coaches walk into chaos. Some look at the situation and realize they are not up to the challenge. This ain't Tubby's first rodeo.

Bottom line: What if some of us don't like his system and don't want to see it implemented here.

#Family

(04-20-2017 04:53 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(04-20-2017 03:41 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-20-2017 02:58 PM)CUSA_NEWS Wrote:  He also said the Lawson's departure was as big as Cal leaving Memphis.

If only it was April 1st when he said that...

Quote:Jason Smith says that Memphis Tigers has poorly put together staff!

If you have a big picture mindset, it is huge.

Obviously, with Keelon we get Chandler and Johnathan. And KJ (yeah, i Know). Keeps up strong with DJ Jeffries.

Keelon's wife coaches the Team Penny U16 team. Keelon, as a father of Chandler and Johnathan, wasn't restricted by recruiting rules (no contact, dead periods, etc) to have contact with prospects.

He could have, in fact, had barbecues with the aau kids at his house, talked up Memphis to the parents, had those kid's "people" over. Plus he knew the Memphis landscape.

Instead you have Better not Call Saul leaving messages on D2 dad's office phones about coming to talk.

Pfft.

So I was in a coma when the Lawson's led us to the sweet 16, what else did I miss?

Instead of hanging out in the weeds throwing darts at others opinions why don't you grow a pair and tell us what you think about the trajectory of the Memphis Tigers men's basketball program.

If you're right you'll be acknowledged. If you're wrong then you can take your lumps.

What have you got other than the he same three tired backhanded insults?

Anything?

(04-22-2017 11:52 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 11:28 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:50 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:16 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:02 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  Interesting article from the March 2013 Daily Gopher.....sound familiar?

This negative article proves what? A distortion of beliefs ingrained in the mindsets of the Tubby antagonists. His inability as a coach is such, according to this article, that Texas Tech was willing to pay him more than what Memphis offered him in order to keep him as their coach. The truth cannot be denied or fabricated no matter how it's depicted.

Having read zilch about him, my mind was totally open when Tubby got here. I heard people saying his recruiting was suspect, but that wasn't fazing me. This is Memphis, I was thinking. Recruiting will be a snap here!

Never mind all that now, though. His results and the pickle he's in now speak louder than any words defending or attacking him.

I hear you, Snow. However, the bottom line is that a coach should be given more than one year to incorporate or implement his system after one freaking year. It's just ludicrous and unrealistic to blame and crucify a coach when he walked into a chaotic situation from the very beginning.

A Christfigure... is over the top. One of those dudes wasn't getting paid to start a religion.

Besides which, many coaches walk into chaos. Some look at the situation and realize they are not up to the challenge. This ain't Tubby's first rodeo.

Bottom line: What if some of us don't like his system and don't want to see it implemented here.

#Family

Then so be it but I suffice to say some of you loved the failed system JP implemented though, right? Crying over 3 million when a coach who failed to get beyond the first round in the tourney made 10.7 million.

(04-22-2017 10:03 AM)Memphis-TN Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 09:53 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  He has won a national championship before, therefore, one would conclusively think the guy knows what it takes to build such a caliber type team.

Rick Pitino built that team. Tubby hasn't been able to build a national championship team of his own (or even a Final Four team for that matter).

Irrespective whether the team consisted of Petino's recruits or not..Tubby coached them all the way to a championship. Clearly, talent is a must in order to win but you also must have a skilled coach to lead the troops. He got them to sweet 16s and elite eights but that wasn't good enough for the psychopaths at Kentucky.

(04-22-2017 10:02 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  Interesting article from the March 2013 Daily Gopher.....sound familiar?

Quote:After Tubby's honeymoon period, the Minnesota basketball program was rarely fun. A slew of players transferred. Royce White and Devoe Joseph took part in melodramas that would make for a great Bravo reality show. Tubby pointed fingers alternately at his players and the lack of a practice facility. Tubby often seemed unable in press conferences to pinpoint what ailed his teams. On most occasions Tubby's players didn't play with confidence. No one seemed to be having much fun.

But in my view the main reason Norwood Teague pulled the trigger on Tubby Smith is because of the relatively incompetent way he coached and built his team. It's been covered in comment sections, but here are a few recent examples:

Against Illinois in the B1G tournament opener, the Gophers, after a timeout, couldn't get the ball inbounds from the side when they had a chance to take a last shot. Brandon Paul said thank you and knocked down a buzzer beater. This was not the only time this happened and it was all rather bizarre watching the players look to achieve the inbounding feat.

Against Florida, the Gophers didn't seem to understand that the way to beat the press was to get the basketball to the middle of the floor. They were trying to pass cross-court or up the sidelines, in exactly the locations Florida was trapping. When they tried to get the ball inbounds against the press, on a couple of occasions Elliot Eliason sprinted to the corner. He should have been flashing to the middle to take away the sideline as a third defender.

Again against Florida, Tubby made a defensive adjustment and had the Gophers switch on every screen. He did this often. This worked temporarily until Billy Donovan exploited it and found low-post or perimeter mis-matches. This is what resulted in Andre Hollins' fourth foul. This is something that could work with 5 athletes on the floor, but once Tubby put Eliason back in the game, the big fella had no prayer in manning up against Florida's guards.

Throughout his tenure, Tubby's offense was cringe-worthy. This season the Gophers were running the flex offense along with some high-low and pick and roll looks. The flex in particular was run with a lackadaisical approach. Cuts were slow and deliberate. At times off-the-ball movement stopped. It was almost as if the players were still learning the offense.

And I've tried to block out of my mind how Tubby's teams dealt with zone defenses of any kind and I refuse to remember the game this year at Iowa.

In addition to Tubby's in-game tactics, Tubby Smith didn't seem to have a vision for the program. How did he want his team to play basketball and win game?. We heard a lot about the Gophers doing better out of conference because they could get away from the slow-it-down B1G pace. But if Tubby wanted a run and gun team with athletes, why did he recruit Ralph Sampson III? Maurice Walker? Maverick Ahanmisi? Colton Iverson? Andre Ingram? Oto Oseneiks? Round pegs, square holes. Or maybe just random pegs.

Tubby Smith wasn't fired Monday because he was a bad guy, immoral or a cheater. He was fired because his program wasn't fun, had no direction and his coaching was, at best, suspect.

This is a mostly accurate assessment of Tubby:

"Against Florida, the Gophers didn't seem to understand that the way to beat the press was to get the basketball to the middle of the floor. They were trying to pass cross-court or up the sidelines, in exactly the locations Florida was trapping."

Our team did this this year; mostly Martin (but others too) dribbling or even passing into trap zones where the half court line and sidelines act as defenders. It happened all season so there was apparently no effort to correct it. Even if you don't turn it over, you have to burn a timeout or waste a lot of time off the clock resulting in late in shot clock hail marys. Sometimes we even did it against a half court trap (which is hard to do.)

as to his National Championship at KY (Wiki):

"Tubby Smith was introduced as the Wildcats' 20th head coach on May 12, 1997, charged with the task of replacing popular coach Rick Pitino, who left to become the head coach of the NBA's Boston Celtics. The Wildcats were at the top of the basketball world at the time, having won a national title in 1996 and played in the national title game in 1997. The team Smith inherited had seven players from the Arizona loss and five from the 1996 championship team." Many coaches would have won NC in that situation; it was tailor made to do so.

I'm tired of hearing about revised expectations-we are paying a Top 15 or so salary and should expect to be a Top 25 program; we have everything a program needs to be that except a Top 25 coach; Tubby recruits players Top 25 teams pass on. It ain't going to work.

(04-22-2017 11:28 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:50 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:16 AM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-22-2017 10:02 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  Interesting article from the March 2013 Daily Gopher.....sound familiar?

Quote:After Tubby's honeymoon period, the Minnesota basketball program was rarely fun. A slew of players transferred. Royce White and Devoe Joseph took part in melodramas that would make for a great Bravo reality show. Tubby pointed fingers alternately at his players and the lack of a practice facility. Tubby often seemed unable in press conferences to pinpoint what ailed his teams. On most occasions Tubby's players didn't play with confidence. No one seemed to be having much fun.

But in my view the main reason Norwood Teague pulled the trigger on Tubby Smith is because of the relatively incompetent way he coached and built his team. It's been covered in comment sections, but here are a few recent examples:

Against Illinois in the B1G tournament opener, the Gophers, after a timeout, couldn't get the ball inbounds from the side when they had a chance to take a last shot. Brandon Paul said thank you and knocked down a buzzer beater. This was not the only time this happened and it was all rather bizarre watching the players look to achieve the inbounding feat.
Against Florida, the Gophers didn't seem to understand that the way to beat the press was to get the basketball to the middle of the floor. They were trying to pass cross-court or up the sidelines, in exactly the locations Florida was trapping. When they tried to get the ball inbounds against the press, on a couple of occasions Elliot Eliason sprinted to the corner. He should have been flashing to the middle to take away the sideline as a third defender.
Again against Florida, Tubby made a defensive adjustment and had the Gophers switch on every screen. He did this often. This worked temporarily until Billy Donovan exploited it and found low-post or perimeter mis-matches. This is what resulted in Andre Hollins' fourth foul. This is something that could work with 5 athletes on the floor, but once Tubby put Eliason back in the game, the big fella had no prayer in manning up against Florida's guards.
Throughout his tenure, Tubby's offense was cringe-worthy. This season the Gophers were running the flex offense along with some high-low and pick and roll looks. The flex in particular was run with a lackadaisical approach. Cuts were slow and deliberate. At times off-the-ball movement stopped. It was almost as if the players were still learning the offense.
And I've tried to block out of my mind how Tubby's teams dealt with zone defenses of any kind and I refuse to remember the game this year at Iowa.

In addition to Tubby's in-game tactics, Tubby Smith didn't seem to have a vision for the program. How did he want his team to play basketball and win game?. We heard a lot about the Gophers doing better out of conference because they could get away from the slow-it-down B1G pace. But if Tubby wanted a run and gun team with athletes, why did he recruit Ralph Sampson III? Maurice Walker? Maverick Ahanmisi? Colton Iverson? Andre Ingram? Oto Oseneiks? Round pegs, square holes. Or maybe just random pegs.

Tubby Smith wasn't fired Monday because he was a bad guy, immoral or a cheater. He was fired because his program wasn't fun, had no direction and his coaching was, at best, suspect.

This negative article proves what? A distortion of beliefs ingrained in the mindsets of the Tubby antagonists. His inability as a coach is such, according to this article, that Texas Tech was willing to pay him more than what Memphis offered him in order to keep him as their coach. The truth cannot be denied or fabricated no matter how it's depicted.

Having read zilch about him, my mind was totally open when Tubby got here. I heard people saying his recruiting was suspect, but that wasn't fazing me. This is Memphis, I was thinking. Recruiting will be a snap here!

Never mind all that now, though. His results and the pickle he's in now speak louder than any words defending or attacking him.

I hear you, Snow. However, the bottom line is that a coach should be given more than one year to incorporate or implement his system after one freaking year. It's just ludicrous and unrealistic to blame and crucify a coach when he walked into a chaotic situation from the very beginning.

Chaotic is this:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketb...-one-year/

"And what Smith then inherited was a program featuring four former top-100 recruits (Dedric Lawson, K.J. Lawson, Markel Crawford, Nick Marshall) and another top-100 prospect (Charlie Moore) signed to a national letter of intent.

Not bad.

But it's pretty bad now."

(04-22-2017 10:38 AM)roachman48 Wrote:  As a response to posts about types of players needed to win, getting players for a particular type of system, etc. , I will post the following.

Fuente came in here. he recruited no 'blue chip' recruits. But, he brought in good players who he thought would be a good fit for his system. Also, HE DID IT WITHOUT CAUSING A TON OF CHAOS AND TURMOIL HIS FIRST YEAR. After year one, he appeared to know what he was doing. He was a refreshing change after Porter. IMHO, you could say nothing more or nothing less about him at that point. But, it was much better place to be in than where we are now with basketball.

Obviously, this is not a perfect analogy ( football to basketball). But, it is a decent point worth considering.

Great point worth considering. Fuente didn't WIN after his first year. Players who were defiant against his system he did not tolerate or keep them in his system. No one called for his head even after his second year of not getting to a bowl game. Fast forward to his last two years of tremendous success...he won football games with 2 and 3* or zero * type players. Why? Simply because Fuente was one hell of a coach.