(02-21-2017 10:26 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 10:16 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 09:20 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The article very much glosses over the exodus of old Big East basketball schools who were and are major football schools. As if we the C7 just woke up one day and decided to try this new, radical plan and swapping out Syracuse, West Virginia, Pitt and Louisville for SMU, Houston, Tulane and UCF had nothing to do with it.

(Sorry for the disrespect in that sentence, AAC, but compare the basketball hardware of those groups and you have to concede the point.)

I didn't read the article, but does it touch on how the C7 were all similarly aligned, and in some cases, really worn out of a 20 year football problem? Even if the Big East didn't have success on the court (which was basically impossible for them) they were 7 schools with the same athletic vision, found 3 others and a TV partner, and relieved themselves of the huge football burdon without diluting basketball. How is that anything other than a win-win?

The move was inevitable once Syracuse and Pitt left. 2 years of turmoil then happy sailing for the Big East.

That's a huge load of garbage. Why was it impossible? The football schools bullied them so much that they didn't have the confidence/know-how to field successful post-season basketball programs? Please...

Dont' know if I should speak for him, but I read that as it being impossible for the C7 to not play high-level basketball. Out of Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St Johns, Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul somebody or several somebodies are gonna be really good.

The other point, the institutional-identity big-city Catholic-Ivy point, is a better one. Looking at this move from the standpoint of 2050, it marks everyone's brand in competition with the Ionas and Loyolas and St Mary's , even if basketball power fades.

(02-21-2017 10:26 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 10:16 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 09:20 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The article very much glosses over the exodus of old Big East basketball schools who were and are major football schools. As if we the C7 just woke up one day and decided to try this new, radical plan and swapping out Syracuse, West Virginia, Pitt and Louisville for SMU, Houston, Tulane and UCF had nothing to do with it.

(Sorry for the disrespect in that sentence, AAC, but compare the basketball hardware of those groups and you have to concede the point.)

I didn't read the article, but does it touch on how the C7 were all similarly aligned, and in some cases, really worn out of a 20 year football problem? Even if the Big East didn't have success on the court (which was basically impossible for them) they were 7 schools with the same athletic vision, found 3 others and a TV partner, and relieved themselves of the huge football burdon without diluting basketball. How is that anything other than a win-win?

The move was inevitable once Syracuse and Pitt left. 2 years of turmoil then happy sailing for the Big East.

That's a huge load of garbage. Why was it impossible? The football schools bullied them so much that they didn't have the confidence/know-how to field successful post-season basketball programs? Please...

Because you were coming out of the 2012-2013 season with Georgetown and Marquette ranked, and they were adding Butler and Creighton. Villanova also played well. These schools took basketball seriously, had really good coaching and were committed to putting the best teams possible on the court.

It's a different scenario than Tulane, UCF, USF and ECU starting a new conference together.

(02-21-2017 10:52 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Well the Big East still has some core great Basketball schools, They did not ditch the Big East Football schools to become great. Louisville,Syracuse,Notre Dame, Pittsburgh ,Rutgers, and West Virgina all pulled out before the split altough it took Louisville and Rutgers another year to honor the contract. The Big East with Cincinnati and UConn along with additions of Houston, Memphis, SMU with the C7 would still have been as good or better than either on Their own currently in Basketball. But thats water under the bridge now.

That's would have been a good set up and a win-win for all involved. The football schools would have the benefit of the Big East brand and the C7 schools would benefit from the exposure of the brand during football season. A couple of the lower brand schools in the AAC would not have made the cut.

If the conference could have stopped expanding with Memphis, Houston and SMU, it's more likely the Big East would have stayed together. However, I think Rutgers was gone (it was a question of figuring out who was Big 10 #13, we would have been #14). Now on the basketball side it was hardly a loss, but it would have been the loss of another football school.

The real problem was having to add Tulane. Basketball became diluted with UCF (and USF and Rutgers were already not good), SDSU and Boise stayed in the Mountain West for football -- so we needed two more schools. From the perspective of the basketball onlies, how much time do you have to put into a problem for a sport you don't sponsor (or don't sponsor at the FBS/AQ level)? The split was going to happen, the C7 had solid programs leaving with them, and ran a conference as they were able to see fit. The American can develop both football and basketball, and really should get a better TV contract in the next go round.

(02-21-2017 11:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 10:52 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Well the Big East still has some core great Basketball schools, They did not ditch the Big East Football schools to become great. Louisville,Syracuse,Notre Dame, Pittsburgh ,Rutgers, and West Virgina all pulled out before the split altough it took Louisville and Rutgers another year to honor the contract. The Big East with Cincinnati and UConn along with additions of Houston, Memphis, SMU with the C7 would still have been as good or better than either on Their own currently in Basketball. But thats water under the bridge now.

That's would have been a good set up and a win-win for all involved. The football schools would have the benefit of the Big East brand and the C7 schools would benefit from the exposure of the brand during football season. A couple of the lower brand schools in the AAC would not have made the cut.

I see this point on here a lot. I don't see how people dogging on Big East Football all fall ever helped those basketball schools. Lee Corso and Mark May s***ing on the BE isn't a good way to boost Marquettes recruiting.

Title is misleading. Should say ditching Notre Dame as well as the other football members has made for a nice somewhat regional basketball conference for these private religious schools.

On an overall popularity scale the confernce has limited appeal now.

Just imagine what they could be had they managed to keep just Notre Dame.

(02-20-2017 08:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Wasn't much of a gamble. They already knew how much they were getting before they left. They were basically paid to leave. Not much of a gamble. That said, that's what they really wanted and it has worked out very well for the Catholic 7.

Agree. Not much of a gamble. Also the best thing to happen to AAC football, as well.

(02-21-2017 11:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 10:52 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Well the Big East still has some core great Basketball schools, They did not ditch the Big East Football schools to become great. Louisville,Syracuse,Notre Dame, Pittsburgh ,Rutgers, and West Virgina all pulled out before the split altough it took Louisville and Rutgers another year to honor the contract. The Big East with Cincinnati and UConn along with additions of Houston, Memphis, SMU with the C7 would still have been as good or better than either on Their own currently in Basketball. But thats water under the bridge now.

That's would have been a good set up and a win-win for all involved. The football schools would have the benefit of the Big East brand and the C7 schools would benefit from the exposure of the brand during football season. A couple of the lower brand schools in the AAC would not have made the cut.

The converse would have been true also, if the Big East football schools ditched the bball schools and expanded.
# = all times wins ranking in bball

Pitt #44
Cuse #6
WVU #23
Rutgers
Cincy #20
Ville #11
USF
ND (scheduling arrangement) #7
UConn #27
Temple #5
Houston
SMU

for 14 add 2 more

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Title is misleading. Should say ditching Notre Dame as well as the other football members has made for a nice somewhat regional basketball conference for these private religious schools.

On an overall popularity scale the confernce has limited appeal now.

Just imagine what they could be had they managed to keep just Notre Dame.

Would have been difficult since ND announced it was joining the ACC before the New Big East schools announced they were leaving. More likely that other schools like ND leaving are what caused them to decide that staying was just untenable in the long run.

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Title is misleading. Should say ditching Notre Dame as well as the other football members has made for a nice somewhat regional basketball conference for these private religious schools.

On an overall popularity scale the confernce has limited appeal now.

Just imagine what they could be had they managed to keep just Notre Dame.

Now tell us how irrelevant the Big East is...pretty please!!

(02-21-2017 02:17 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Title is misleading. Should say ditching Notre Dame as well as the other football members has made for a nice somewhat regional basketball conference for these private religious schools.

On an overall popularity scale the confernce has limited appeal now.

Just imagine what they could be had they managed to keep just Notre Dame.

Now tell us how irrelevant the Big East is...pretty please!!

LOL. You are so butthurt. I said they are not as popular becasue the footprint use to go all the way to Florida and now is very regional. Then you threw a hissy fit.

And never once did I say the conference was irrelevant or bad a BB. Quite the contrary, I acknowledge exactly what the NBE is, as well as what they aren't.

Title is misleading. The NBE didn't "ditch" anything. Quite the contrary, they actually got ditched by football. But it does show the benefit of having all members rowing in the same direction with the same goal which was the issue before.


Truthfully what saved the NBE more than anything was Villanova winning a championship.

(02-21-2017 03:02 PM)p23570 Wrote:  LOL. You are so butthurt. I said they are not as popular becasue the footprint use to go all the way to Florida and now is very regional. Then you threw a hissy fit.

Butthurt. So like..what grade in high school are you in? Excited to get your drivers license? Remember, complete stop at Stop signs, turn signal on, look both ways before making the turn to make sure its ok. Don't forget to study for the SAT or ACT and always eat your vegetables and be sure to drink your Ovaltine!

(02-21-2017 01:39 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 11:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 10:52 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Well the Big East still has some core great Basketball schools, They did not ditch the Big East Football schools to become great. Louisville,Syracuse,Notre Dame, Pittsburgh ,Rutgers, and West Virgina all pulled out before the split altough it took Louisville and Rutgers another year to honor the contract. The Big East with Cincinnati and UConn along with additions of Houston, Memphis, SMU with the C7 would still have been as good or better than either on Their own currently in Basketball. But thats water under the bridge now.

That's would have been a good set up and a win-win for all involved. The football schools would have the benefit of the Big East brand and the C7 schools would benefit from the exposure of the brand during football season. A couple of the lower brand schools in the AAC would not have made the cut.

The converse would have been true also, if the Big East football schools ditched the bball schools and expanded.
# = all times wins ranking in bball

Pitt #44
Cuse #6
WVU #23
Rutgers
Cincy #20
Ville #11
USF
ND (scheduling arrangement) #7
UConn #27
Temple #5
Houston
SMU

for 14 add 2 more

Well you are assuming that ND would have a scheduling arrangement and somehow an anchor bowl would have signed on with this federation (the Big East was an at-large selection for the BCS).

It would have been a better configuration than the AAC became but hard to tell if it would have kept up with the ACC. Water under the bridge and there was more value in basketball than we origianlly thought.

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Title is misleading. Should say ditching Notre Dame as well as the other football members has made for a nice somewhat regional basketball conference for these private religious schools.

On an overall popularity scale the confernce has limited appeal now.

Just imagine what they could be had they managed to keep just Notre Dame.

There really was zero chance of that happening, unfortunately.

They didn't want Notre Dame (football, might leave; ego) and Notre Dame didn't want (no P5 affiliation, no bowl ties, no conference network, etc..) them.

I think the "C7" fans would agree with that. It wasn't worth it to either side.

The Big East is happy with its current lineup and status, I believe. They don't seem to care whether people in other parts of the nation know about or agree with them.

They seem content right where they are, as is.

(02-21-2017 01:39 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 11:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 10:52 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Well the Big East still has some core great Basketball schools, They did not ditch the Big East Football schools to become great. Louisville,Syracuse,Notre Dame, Pittsburgh ,Rutgers, and West Virgina all pulled out before the split altough it took Louisville and Rutgers another year to honor the contract. The Big East with Cincinnati and UConn along with additions of Houston, Memphis, SMU with the C7 would still have been as good or better than either on Their own currently in Basketball. But thats water under the bridge now.

That's would have been a good set up and a win-win for all involved. The football schools would have the benefit of the Big East brand and the C7 schools would benefit from the exposure of the brand during football season. A couple of the lower brand schools in the AAC would not have made the cut.

The converse would have been true also, if the Big East football schools ditched the bball schools and expanded.
# = all times wins ranking in bball

Pitt #44
Cuse #6
WVU #23
Rutgers
Cincy #20
Ville #11
USF
ND (scheduling arrangement) #7
UConn #27
Temple #5
Houston
SMU

for 14 add 2 more

The Big East football schools had the "get out of jail free card" but were unwilling or unable to pull the trigger on it, for some reason.

(02-21-2017 03:07 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 03:02 PM)p23570 Wrote:  LOL. You are so butthurt. I said they are not as popular becasue the footprint use to go all the way to Florida and now is very regional. Then you threw a hissy fit.

Butthurt. So like..what grade in high school are you in? Excited to get your drivers license? Remember, complete stop at Stop signs, turn signal on, look both ways before making the turn to make sure its ok. Don't forget to study for the SAT or ACT and always eat your vegetables and be sure to drink your Ovaltine!

I thought this was about the NBE but all you seen to talk about is me. Try to stay on topic.

I think what we are seeing is hat can happen when a conference of schools all works together toward a common goal versus what was going on before with a steady flow of schools leaving for the ACC and constantly adding C-USA members to keep numbers up.

That is why I think it would be a mistake for both the NBE and UConn to join as they do not have the same long term goals.

(02-21-2017 03:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Title is misleading. Should say ditching Notre Dame as well as the other football members has made for a nice somewhat regional basketball conference for these private religious schools.

On an overall popularity scale the confernce has limited appeal now.

Just imagine what they could be had they managed to keep just Notre Dame.

There really was zero chance of that happening, unfortunately.

They didn't want Notre Dame (football, might leave; ego) and Notre Dame didn't want (no P5 affiliation, no bowl ties, no conference network, etc..) them.

I think the "C7" fans would agree with that. It wasn't worth it to either side.

The Big East is happy with its current lineup and status, I believe. They don't seem to care whether people in other parts of the nation know about or agree with them.

They seem content right where they are, as is.

I agree. Just a few insecure fans who can't come to terms with this. For the schools in the NBE there is not better conference. And for a non p-5 there is not a better BB conference than the NBE.

(02-21-2017 03:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  They didn't want Notre Dame (football, might leave; ego) and Notre Dame didn't want (no P5 affiliation, no bowl ties, no conference network, etc..) them.

We'd have wanted Notre Dame. EVery "we should split" thread/plan I wrote in 2011 and 2012 counted Notre Dame as one of our schools, usually with Xavier and Dayton. But that was assuming that Notre Dame didn't have any other options if they wanted football to stay independent. I figured Notre Dame would grudgingly pick us over UConn, Louisville, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, SMU, Houston, USF and UCF. (Not a lock--Jack Swarbrick picked half of those schools. But pretty likely.) Or the football side would kick you out in a fit of pique.

We weren't in any position to deliver on the things important to Notre Dame outside basketball, and didn't need Notre Dame badly enough to make big concessions if it came to that.

But much like UConn, Notre Dame would be welcome as an interloper in our league for as long as it lasts. (That's the kind of move you can make when you have security.)

(02-21-2017 03:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:02 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Title is misleading. Should say ditching Notre Dame as well as the other football members has made for a nice somewhat regional basketball conference for these private religious schools.

On an overall popularity scale the confernce has limited appeal now.

Just imagine what they could be had they managed to keep just Notre Dame.

There really was zero chance of that happening, unfortunately.

They didn't want Notre Dame (football, might leave; ego) and Notre Dame didn't want (no P5 affiliation, no bowl ties, no conference network, etc..) them.

I think the "C7" fans would agree with that. It wasn't worth it to either side.

The Big East is happy with its current lineup and status, I believe. They don't seem to care whether people in other parts of the nation know about or agree with them.

They seem content right where they are, as is.

Actually thats not the case. When the plan in the BE was to split after the necessary amount of years to keep an NCAA auto-bid the two 8 school sides were going to go their separate ways. Notre Dame was with the C7 in those plans.

Notre Dame would have absolutely be in with urban Catholic schools if circumstances didn't change. They went to the ACC for the scheduling alliance and a path to a BCS/New Years Bowl since they were becoming all contracted with conferences. What it seems like to the administration and BoG a perfect world for Notre Dame would be indy in FB and all other sports in the all Catholic conference. They are pretty much making the same amount now in the ACC for BBall as the members of the BE are making.

(02-21-2017 03:14 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 01:39 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 11:25 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 10:52 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Well the Big East still has some core great Basketball schools, They did not ditch the Big East Football schools to become great. Louisville,Syracuse,Notre Dame, Pittsburgh ,Rutgers, and West Virgina all pulled out before the split altough it took Louisville and Rutgers another year to honor the contract. The Big East with Cincinnati and UConn along with additions of Houston, Memphis, SMU with the C7 would still have been as good or better than either on Their own currently in Basketball. But thats water under the bridge now.

That's would have been a good set up and a win-win for all involved. The football schools would have the benefit of the Big East brand and the C7 schools would benefit from the exposure of the brand during football season. A couple of the lower brand schools in the AAC would not have made the cut.

The converse would have been true also, if the Big East football schools ditched the bball schools and expanded.
# = all times wins ranking in bball

Pitt #44
Cuse #6
WVU #23
Rutgers
Cincy #20
Ville #11
USF
ND (scheduling arrangement) #7
UConn #27
Temple #5
Houston
SMU

for 14 add 2 more

The Big East football schools had the "get out of jail free card" but were unwilling or unable to pull the trigger on it, for some reason.

It was complicated but the bball schools were anti football expansion. Tranghese and Meatball had bball in mind first, and guessing the bball schools had enough voting power to nix expansion.