(01-19-2017 02:56 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:05 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 11:44 AM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 10:58 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Elliot in a short time has done an excellent job on his first class.

If these guys can actually coach in games, things could get interesting.

He'll be able to motivate as well. The only real unknown about Elliot is his ability to manage late game situations (just no experience there).

GA St.'s athletic department in 2017 has more 2008-2010 App St. AD employees than App does in 2017. Football will be a priority. The east division in two years could be special.

The real question is will people show up to games? Without an atmosphere to play in, kids will still choose Southern, App or Coastal....or any of the other 75 FBS schools that recruit Georgia.

Keep hope alive eh? LOL

It's actually a pretty realistic question for anyone that knows how fans in ATL are. Likely one of the worst fan support towns i've ever seen personally unless you're in the running for a championship.

(01-19-2017 03:43 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  It's actually a pretty realistic question for anyone that knows how fans in ATL are. Likely one of the worst fan support towns i've ever seen personally unless you're in the running for a championship.

It's only a question if you recruit Atlanta and now see the real possibility of GSU recruiting 10 to 15 three stars annually.

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(01-19-2017 02:23 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:38 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:31 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:27 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:23 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  App has a safety commit that was a borderline 4 star recruit as a Jr because he was generating interest from UGA and some other SEC schools. The day after committing to App he was downgraded to barely a 3 star (81). That's a perfect example of the experts evaluating high school talent.

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That's extremely common in recruiting rankings. A recruiting service partially bases their evaluation of a kid on his offer list. If there are offers from stronger SEC programs, they get a higher rating. If that recruit than commits to a G5 programs, it's almost as if the service assumes that the SEC school must have pulled their offer, so they get downgraded.

It helps if you have a dedicated person working for a service who can fight for that players rating, but if you don't, you'll spend a lot of time watching all your commitments get downgraded.

Exactly why I put so little credibility in these guys.

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I've joked about this for a while, but Arkansas State went the first 19 years of their time in FBS without a designated writer covering us for one of the major recruiting services. During that time, we never once finished ranked tops in the Sun Belt.

The first time we got our own website on scout and our own writer who covered us extensively, we had the top class in the conference on that website.

South Alabama and Georgia State are going to love 247 because they have guys who work for those sites who can keep their commitments up to date, and fight to get more players with a 3 star rating. Those of us without the service, don't see the same benefit. That's how those guys operate. They want you to sign up with them so you can get the same access and they make more money.

I can absolutely assure you that the publishers of the 247 sites have no influence with the ratings. All you can do is update the list, request a ranking if the player is unrated and start saying your Our Fathers....

Somebody has influence somewhere. The day AFTER signing day 2013, 8 players in UNCC's first ever class magically morphed from mid 2 star into 3 star prospects. Considering only 1 of the 8 had a committable offer from another FBS program (GA State) somebody pulled some strings to get these guys bumped up.

(01-19-2017 05:48 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 03:43 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  It's actually a pretty realistic question for anyone that knows how fans in ATL are. Likely one of the worst fan support towns i've ever seen personally unless you're in the running for a championship.

It's only a question if you recruit Atlanta and now see the real possibility of GSU recruiting 10 to 15 three stars annually.

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But how many other programs recruit Atlanta and the surrounding area? Nearly every FBS program will recruit Georgia. Georgia State has to compete not only with UGA, Georgia Southern, and Georgia Tech; but other FCS programs and 3/4 of FBS schools. With next to no fan support and only a vision of success to work with, how long will it take Elliot to get GSU to a bowl game? 2 bowl games? Conference Championships?

Ultimately, it will come down to fan support to pull those recruits who are teetering on staying home and playing in front of Mom and Dad or going else where and playing in front of 30,000 people week in and week out (unless they go to play at GSU).

(01-19-2017 07:15 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 05:48 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 03:43 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  It's actually a pretty realistic question for anyone that knows how fans in ATL are. Likely one of the worst fan support towns i've ever seen personally unless you're in the running for a championship.

It's only a question if you recruit Atlanta and now see the real possibility of GSU recruiting 10 to 15 three stars annually.

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But how many other programs recruit Atlanta and the surrounding area? Nearly every FBS program will recruit Georgia. Georgia State has to compete not only with UGA, Georgia Southern, and Georgia Tech; but other FCS programs and 3/4 of FBS schools. With next to no fan support and only a vision of success to work with, how long will it take Elliot to get GSU to a bowl game? 2 bowl games? Conference Championships?

Ultimately, it will come down to fan support to pull those recruits who are teetering on staying home and playing in front of Mom and Dad or going else where and playing in front of 30,000 people week in and week out (unless they go to play at GSU).

We had 5 three stars commit from one weekend. I do not need every Atlanta kid. So not worried.

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(01-19-2017 07:15 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 05:48 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 03:43 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  It's actually a pretty realistic question for anyone that knows how fans in ATL are. Likely one of the worst fan support towns i've ever seen personally unless you're in the running for a championship.

It's only a question if you recruit Atlanta and now see the real possibility of GSU recruiting 10 to 15 three stars annually.

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But how many other programs recruit Atlanta and the surrounding area? Nearly every FBS program will recruit Georgia. Georgia State has to compete not only with UGA, Georgia Southern, and Georgia Tech; but other FCS programs and 3/4 of FBS schools. With next to no fan support and only a vision of success to work with, how long will it take Elliot to get GSU to a bowl game? 2 bowl games? Conference Championships?

Ultimately, it will come down to fan support to pull those recruits who are teetering on staying home and playing in front of Mom and Dad or going else where and playing in front of 30,000 people week in and week out (unless they go to play at GSU).

I think that's a legit concern and totally deserved. It may still take another decade for our numbers to get where we want them but Panama is right, it's all about being a Winner. I've seen the Dome less than half full in down Falcon years and I've seen streaks like now where you can't find a ticket. Winning solves nearly all attendance problems in Atlanta. I think there is a segment of the metro population eager to support this program based on our first season and we have hopefully found the coach to get us back there.

(01-19-2017 07:24 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 07:15 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 05:48 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 03:43 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  It's actually a pretty realistic question for anyone that knows how fans in ATL are. Likely one of the worst fan support towns i've ever seen personally unless you're in the running for a championship.

It's only a question if you recruit Atlanta and now see the real possibility of GSU recruiting 10 to 15 three stars annually.

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But how many other programs recruit Atlanta and the surrounding area? Nearly every FBS program will recruit Georgia. Georgia State has to compete not only with UGA, Georgia Southern, and Georgia Tech; but other FCS programs and 3/4 of FBS schools. With next to no fan support and only a vision of success to work with, how long will it take Elliot to get GSU to a bowl game? 2 bowl games? Conference Championships?

Ultimately, it will come down to fan support to pull those recruits who are teetering on staying home and playing in front of Mom and Dad or going else where and playing in front of 30,000 people week in and week out (unless they go to play at GSU).

We had 5 three stars commit from one weekend. I do not need every Atlanta kid. So not worried.

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You could not take every ATL kid there is enough talent for four or five teams just in the ATL area probably.

(01-19-2017 08:01 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 07:24 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 07:15 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 05:48 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 03:43 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  It's actually a pretty realistic question for anyone that knows how fans in ATL are. Likely one of the worst fan support towns i've ever seen personally unless you're in the running for a championship.

It's only a question if you recruit Atlanta and now see the real possibility of GSU recruiting 10 to 15 three stars annually.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

But how many other programs recruit Atlanta and the surrounding area? Nearly every FBS program will recruit Georgia. Georgia State has to compete not only with UGA, Georgia Southern, and Georgia Tech; but other FCS programs and 3/4 of FBS schools. With next to no fan support and only a vision of success to work with, how long will it take Elliot to get GSU to a bowl game? 2 bowl games? Conference Championships?

Ultimately, it will come down to fan support to pull those recruits who are teetering on staying home and playing in front of Mom and Dad or going else where and playing in front of 30,000 people week in and week out (unless they go to play at GSU).

We had 5 three stars commit from one weekend. I do not need every Atlanta kid. So not worried.

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You could not take every ATL kid there is enough talent for four or five teams just in the ATL area probably.

Easily. This staff is just proving that with hard work and relationships you can get so,e quality players.


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(01-19-2017 12:58 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 12:54 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I don't trust recruiting rankings at all outside of 5 star players. After that, recruiting services pretty much stand a stronger chance of whiffing on a kid than coaches do.

247 does pretty well

Very well as it is a composite of all four sites and is probably more accurate than its own individual rating or the others alone. If you dont trust ratings out of five star the NFL draft and % of each population in the NFL, the % of each population that play and get a second contract, All American selections, w/l records and conf championships should convince you otherwise.

I can provide the links.

(01-19-2017 08:03 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 08:01 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 07:24 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 07:15 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 05:48 PM)panama Wrote:  It's only a question if you recruit Atlanta and now see the real possibility of GSU recruiting 10 to 15 three stars annually.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

But how many other programs recruit Atlanta and the surrounding area? Nearly every FBS program will recruit Georgia. Georgia State has to compete not only with UGA, Georgia Southern, and Georgia Tech; but other FCS programs and 3/4 of FBS schools. With next to no fan support and only a vision of success to work with, how long will it take Elliot to get GSU to a bowl game? 2 bowl games? Conference Championships?

Ultimately, it will come down to fan support to pull those recruits who are teetering on staying home and playing in front of Mom and Dad or going else where and playing in front of 30,000 people week in and week out (unless they go to play at GSU).

We had 5 three stars commit from one weekend. I do not need every Atlanta kid. So not worried.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

You could not take every ATL kid there is enough talent for four or five teams just in the ATL area probably.

Easily. This staff is just proving that with hard work and relationships you can get so,e quality players.


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Just saying you can only take 25+/- when there are hundreds to be had. Once you are full tell them about the other G5 team as they seem to have forgotten this year.

(01-19-2017 08:06 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 08:03 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 08:01 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 07:24 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 07:15 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  But how many other programs recruit Atlanta and the surrounding area? Nearly every FBS program will recruit Georgia. Georgia State has to compete not only with UGA, Georgia Southern, and Georgia Tech; but other FCS programs and 3/4 of FBS schools. With next to no fan support and only a vision of success to work with, how long will it take Elliot to get GSU to a bowl game? 2 bowl games? Conference Championships?

Ultimately, it will come down to fan support to pull those recruits who are teetering on staying home and playing in front of Mom and Dad or going else where and playing in front of 30,000 people week in and week out (unless they go to play at GSU).

We had 5 three stars commit from one weekend. I do not need every Atlanta kid. So not worried.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

You could not take every ATL kid there is enough talent for four or five teams just in the ATL area probably.

Easily. This staff is just proving that with hard work and relationships you can get so,e quality players.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just saying you can only take 25+/- when there are hundreds to be had.

Are you making my point or some other point. I just said I don not need every kid in Atlanta. Not sure how that is different from you can only take 25. My point is that answering the contention that Atlanta is recruited by dozens of schools, I say left me have 10 to 15 three stars a year and lets roll.


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(01-19-2017 02:53 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:38 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:31 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:27 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:23 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  App has a safety commit that was a borderline 4 star recruit as a Jr because he was generating interest from UGA and some other SEC schools. The day after committing to App he was downgraded to barely a 3 star (81). That's a perfect example of the experts evaluating high school talent.

Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app

That's extremely common in recruiting rankings. A recruiting service partially bases their evaluation of a kid on his offer list. If there are offers from stronger SEC programs, they get a higher rating. If that recruit than commits to a G5 programs, it's almost as if the service assumes that the SEC school must have pulled their offer, so they get downgraded.

It helps if you have a dedicated person working for a service who can fight for that players rating, but if you don't, you'll spend a lot of time watching all your commitments get downgraded.

Exactly why I put so little credibility in these guys.

Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app

I've joked about this for a while, but Arkansas State went the first 19 years of their time in FBS without a designated writer covering us for one of the major recruiting services. During that time, we never once finished ranked tops in the Sun Belt.

The first time we got our own website on scout and our own writer who covered us extensively, we had the top class in the conference on that website.

South Alabama and Georgia State are going to love 247 because they have guys who work for those sites who can keep their commitments up to date, and fight to get more players with a 3 star rating. Those of us without the service, don't see the same benefit. That's how those guys operate. They want you to sign up with them so you can get the same access and they make more money.

What's wrong with having a tactic to increase revenue?

Nothing, but I inherently don't trust sites that insist upon receiving money for a service.

(01-19-2017 02:07 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:27 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  That's extremely common in recruiting rankings. A recruiting service partially bases their evaluation of a kid on his offer list. If there are offers from stronger SEC programs, they get a higher rating. If that recruit than commits to a G5 programs, it's almost as if the service assumes that the SEC school must have pulled their offer, so they get downgraded.

It helps if you have a dedicated person working for a service who can fight for that players rating, but if you don't, you'll spend a lot of time watching all your commitments get downgraded.

I've seen a few of you post similar statements and I often wonder how much of that is hyperbole based on a myth. Maybe you've seen it happen once or twice and want to exaggerate it's frequency (human nature) or make a cause/effect analysis that isn't really correct (misunderstanding the composite when another service's rating is added, as one example).

I've followed Troy recruiting for nearly a decade, and I've never once seen it happen to a Troy commit. My experience is completely anecdotal. There are enough people saying they've seen it happen for me to give it some thought. I'm willing to believe, but I'm gonna need some proof, not just "I seen it".

It was very common on Scout and Rivals. I once watched an AState commitment who was a 2 star commit to Arkansas right before signing day, and magically become a 3 star.

I can't say for sure on 247 because I don't follow their rankings, but there are a lot of people who had Scout/Rivals who could give examples of what happened.

Don't know about the recruiting services but it was kind of fun seeing pictures of some of our coaches visiting one of our recruits on their ranch this week. They were on horseback but you could tell some of them had never been around horses before; let alone ridden one.

(01-19-2017 08:33 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 02:53 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:38 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:31 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:27 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  That's extremely common in recruiting rankings. A recruiting service partially bases their evaluation of a kid on his offer list. If there are offers from stronger SEC programs, they get a higher rating. If that recruit than commits to a G5 programs, it's almost as if the service assumes that the SEC school must have pulled their offer, so they get downgraded.

It helps if you have a dedicated person working for a service who can fight for that players rating, but if you don't, you'll spend a lot of time watching all your commitments get downgraded.

Exactly why I put so little credibility in these guys.

Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app

I've joked about this for a while, but Arkansas State went the first 19 years of their time in FBS without a designated writer covering us for one of the major recruiting services. During that time, we never once finished ranked tops in the Sun Belt.

The first time we got our own website on scout and our own writer who covered us extensively, we had the top class in the conference on that website.

South Alabama and Georgia State are going to love 247 because they have guys who work for those sites who can keep their commitments up to date, and fight to get more players with a 3 star rating. Those of us without the service, don't see the same benefit. That's how those guys operate. They want you to sign up with them so you can get the same access and they make more money.

What's wrong with having a tactic to increase revenue?

Nothing, but I inherently don't trust sites that insist upon receiving money for a service.

So you don't believe in money....for a service....

I'm confused...

You don't trust them due to the lack of access to Arkansas State information....which would require money to pay people to spend their time, time they could use actually earning money, researching and following Arkansas State athletics.

(01-19-2017 08:45 PM)CatMom Wrote:  Don't know about the recruiting services but it was kind of fun seeing pictures of some of our coaches visiting one of our recruits on their ranch this week. They were on horseback but you could tell some of them had never been around horses before; let alone ridden one.

Everyone in Texas knows how to right a horse, no?

(01-19-2017 08:48 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 08:33 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 02:53 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:38 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:31 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Exactly why I put so little credibility in these guys.

Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app

I've joked about this for a while, but Arkansas State went the first 19 years of their time in FBS without a designated writer covering us for one of the major recruiting services. During that time, we never once finished ranked tops in the Sun Belt.

The first time we got our own website on scout and our own writer who covered us extensively, we had the top class in the conference on that website.

South Alabama and Georgia State are going to love 247 because they have guys who work for those sites who can keep their commitments up to date, and fight to get more players with a 3 star rating. Those of us without the service, don't see the same benefit. That's how those guys operate. They want you to sign up with them so you can get the same access and they make more money.

What's wrong with having a tactic to increase revenue?

Nothing, but I inherently don't trust sites that insist upon receiving money for a service.

So you don't believe in money....for a service....

I'm confused...

You don't trust them due to the lack of access to Arkansas State information....which would require money to pay people to spend their time, time they could use actually earning money, researching and following Arkansas State athletics.

More about trusting a service in which I could get the same information for free somewhere else.

Thanks To Twitter, I can get 99 percent of recruiting information I need for free, I don't need to send a recruiting service 10 bucks a month to do it for me.

(01-19-2017 08:48 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 08:45 PM)CatMom Wrote:  Don't know about the recruiting services but it was kind of fun seeing pictures of some of our coaches visiting one of our recruits on their ranch this week. They were on horseback but you could tell some of them had never been around horses before; let alone ridden one.

Everyone in Texas knows how to right a horse, no?

What's your definition of "right?"

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(01-19-2017 08:38 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 02:07 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(01-19-2017 01:27 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  That's extremely common in recruiting rankings. A recruiting service partially bases their evaluation of a kid on his offer list. If there are offers from stronger SEC programs, they get a higher rating. If that recruit than commits to a G5 programs, it's almost as if the service assumes that the SEC school must have pulled their offer, so they get downgraded.

It helps if you have a dedicated person working for a service who can fight for that players rating, but if you don't, you'll spend a lot of time watching all your commitments get downgraded.

I've seen a few of you post similar statements and I often wonder how much of that is hyperbole based on a myth. Maybe you've seen it happen once or twice and want to exaggerate it's frequency (human nature) or make a cause/effect analysis that isn't really correct (misunderstanding the composite when another service's rating is added, as one example).

I've followed Troy recruiting for nearly a decade, and I've never once seen it happen to a Troy commit. My experience is completely anecdotal. There are enough people saying they've seen it happen for me to give it some thought. I'm willing to believe, but I'm gonna need some proof, not just "I seen it".

It was very common on Scout and Rivals. I once watched an AState commitment who was a 2 star commit to Arkansas right before signing day, and magically become a 3 star.

I can't say for sure on 247 because I don't follow their rankings, but there are a lot of people who had Scout/Rivals who could give examples of what happened.

It is not magic and it does not happen all the time. Out of 25+ last year we only had one kid have a signing day eval and one kid downgraded due to a knee injury than anything else just on one site but all others had him at three anyway and we are a Sun Belt G5, you cant get much lower on the priority list than us. Some kids dont get a look until they are recruited by multiple schools also some sites do better as schools have accounts on those sites. GS has one on Scout and remains up to date daily where as 24/7 really does not get to most of our recruits until right before signing day. If you dont have a rep on a site you almost have to depend on a conference team to request a kid have his profile updated before signing day. Ark could have had an account on that site. Most FBS recruits are given a two star for being FBS level offered then it takes time to get to every kid. Also if a kid is being recruited by a decent SEC school or above I doubt the kid is just a two star and is at least a low .795-.85 three star kid. Again three star is not some even ranking it goes from .795 to .894. The top end you are likely ranked nationally at your position going to AL, the low end you might headed to Alabama St.