Carpet bombing.

Firebombing.

Or... drop a few Russian FOAB's. (Most powerful non-nuclear, conventional bomb in the world.)

(11-17-2015 09:23 AM)Hitch Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 08:56 AM)Claw Wrote:  I would term my strategy Baby Hiroshmia.

I would recommend researching each dead terrorist and simply eradicating the village he grew up in. If he grew up in a city, eradicate his mosque and and 3-mile perimeter.

When the cost of their actions is more than they gain, they will quit.

You want it to stop? You have mama and daddy sending letters saying : "Don't do it son, or they will destroy our entire village. All of your family and friends will die. Are you trying to kill us, son? Come home."

Do this and you are done in 6 months. But you have to be ruthless and simply kill everyone. We don't have that will.

Everyone sees the irony of bombing civilians in retaliation for civilian bombings, right?

Actually I don't see the irony. In fact, civilians were largely a part of warfare for virtually all of human history aside from the last 40 years when ordinance became "smart" and during portions of the 1700s and 1800s in Europe during musket era warfare.

ROE's are why the war hasn't been won yet.

(11-17-2015 11:11 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 09:23 AM)Hitch Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 08:56 AM)Claw Wrote:  I would term my strategy Baby Hiroshmia.

I would recommend researching each dead terrorist and simply eradicating the village he grew up in. If he grew up in a city, eradicate his mosque and and 3-mile perimeter.

When the cost of their actions is more than they gain, they will quit.

You want it to stop? You have mama and daddy sending letters saying : "Don't do it son, or they will destroy our entire village. All of your family and friends will die. Are you trying to kill us, son? Come home."

Do this and you are done in 6 months. But you have to be ruthless and simply kill everyone. We don't have that will.

Everyone sees the irony of bombing civilians in retaliation for civilian bombings, right?

Actually I don't see the irony. In fact, civilians were largely a part of warfare for virtually all of human history aside from the last 40 years when ordinance became "smart" and during portions of the 1700s and 1800s in Europe during musket era warfare.

It's called collateral damage. It sucks.

The only way to get ISIS to stop using human shields and hiding in hospitals is to show them that the tactic won't work. How do we do that? Bomb the holy hell out of some of them, and show them that we HAVE the stomach for it, even if we don't. They'll change tactics.

Traditionally called fighting fire with fire.

(11-17-2015 11:14 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:11 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 09:23 AM)Hitch Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 08:56 AM)Claw Wrote:  I would term my strategy Baby Hiroshmia.

I would recommend researching each dead terrorist and simply eradicating the village he grew up in. If he grew up in a city, eradicate his mosque and and 3-mile perimeter.

When the cost of their actions is more than they gain, they will quit.

You want it to stop? You have mama and daddy sending letters saying : "Don't do it son, or they will destroy our entire village. All of your family and friends will die. Are you trying to kill us, son? Come home."

Do this and you are done in 6 months. But you have to be ruthless and simply kill everyone. We don't have that will.

Everyone sees the irony of bombing civilians in retaliation for civilian bombings, right?

Actually I don't see the irony. In fact, civilians were largely a part of warfare for virtually all of human history aside from the last 40 years when ordinance became "smart" and during portions of the 1700s and 1800s in Europe during musket era warfare.

It's called collateral damage. It sucks.

The only way to get ISIS to stop using human shields and hiding in hospitals is to show them that the tactic won't work. How do we do that? Bomb the holy hell out of some of them, and show them that we HAVE the stomach for it, even if we don't. They'll change tactics.

I get it. The alternative is to send ground troops into the region and to then risk our soldiers to fight against terrorists who use human shields - which puts U.S. soldiers at even greater risk because their orders are to minimize civilian casualties. Truman weighed these factors greatly until he elected to go with the nukes on Japan. Germany was carpet bombed without mercy because Hitler refused to surrender when it was obvious that he was going to lose the war.

You're right, it does suck. But I don't know what the alternatives are unless you make the Middle East a "no go" zone where you shut your borders completely against anyone from the ME coming to the U.S. and forbid anyone from the U.S. from going to the ME. Maybe the goal should be to shut the borders completely. Blockade all ME nations from leaving their countries and trade, until they clean up their own Jihadi mess.

(11-17-2015 11:14 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:11 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 09:23 AM)Hitch Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 08:56 AM)Claw Wrote:  I would term my strategy Baby Hiroshmia.

I would recommend researching each dead terrorist and simply eradicating the village he grew up in. If he grew up in a city, eradicate his mosque and and 3-mile perimeter.

When the cost of their actions is more than they gain, they will quit.

You want it to stop? You have mama and daddy sending letters saying : "Don't do it son, or they will destroy our entire village. All of your family and friends will die. Are you trying to kill us, son? Come home."

Do this and you are done in 6 months. But you have to be ruthless and simply kill everyone. We don't have that will.

Everyone sees the irony of bombing civilians in retaliation for civilian bombings, right?

Actually I don't see the irony. In fact, civilians were largely a part of warfare for virtually all of human history aside from the last 40 years when ordinance became "smart" and during portions of the 1700s and 1800s in Europe during musket era warfare.

It's called collateral damage. It sucks.

The only way to get ISIS to stop using human shields and hiding in hospitals is to show them that the tactic won't work. How do we do that? Bomb the holy hell out of some of them, and show them that we HAVE the stomach for it, even if we don't. They'll change tactics.

their is something to be learned from 'mafia tactics'.....threatening the familia doesn't change things...killing them does......

(11-17-2015 11:32 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:14 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:11 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 09:23 AM)Hitch Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 08:56 AM)Claw Wrote:  I would term my strategy Baby Hiroshmia.

I would recommend researching each dead terrorist and simply eradicating the village he grew up in. If he grew up in a city, eradicate his mosque and and 3-mile perimeter.

When the cost of their actions is more than they gain, they will quit.

You want it to stop? You have mama and daddy sending letters saying : "Don't do it son, or they will destroy our entire village. All of your family and friends will die. Are you trying to kill us, son? Come home."

Do this and you are done in 6 months. But you have to be ruthless and simply kill everyone. We don't have that will.

Everyone sees the irony of bombing civilians in retaliation for civilian bombings, right?

Actually I don't see the irony. In fact, civilians were largely a part of warfare for virtually all of human history aside from the last 40 years when ordinance became "smart" and during portions of the 1700s and 1800s in Europe during musket era warfare.

It's called collateral damage. It sucks.

The only way to get ISIS to stop using human shields and hiding in hospitals is to show them that the tactic won't work. How do we do that? Bomb the holy hell out of some of them, and show them that we HAVE the stomach for it, even if we don't. They'll change tactics.

their is something to be learned from 'mafia tactics'.....threatening the familia doesn't change things...killing them does......

"They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue." - The Untouchables

(11-17-2015 11:34 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:32 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:14 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:11 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 09:23 AM)Hitch Wrote:  Everyone sees the irony of bombing civilians in retaliation for civilian bombings, right?

Actually I don't see the irony. In fact, civilians were largely a part of warfare for virtually all of human history aside from the last 40 years when ordinance became "smart" and during portions of the 1700s and 1800s in Europe during musket era warfare.

It's called collateral damage. It sucks.

The only way to get ISIS to stop using human shields and hiding in hospitals is to show them that the tactic won't work. How do we do that? Bomb the holy hell out of some of them, and show them that we HAVE the stomach for it, even if we don't. They'll change tactics.

their is something to be learned from 'mafia tactics'.....threatening the familia doesn't change things...killing them does......

"They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue." - The Untouchables

The Untouchables have it right. We have been operating on "proportional" response. We need to have a disproportional response.

(11-17-2015 11:13 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  ROE's are why the war hasn't been won yet.

This!

When obummer took office, they changed the rules of engagement on us. Thats why 75% of all of the deaths in the war have occurred under potus

(11-17-2015 11:39 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:13 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  ROE's are why the war hasn't been won yet.

This!

When obummer took office, they changed the rules of engagement on us. Thats why 75% of all of the deaths in the war have occurred under potus

My brother (Major - US Army) did 2 tours in the Middle East (Iraq & Afghanistan) and when he was there, he had to have a stupid orange plug in the barrel of his rifle while on base. Pretty obvious to anyone who might want to kill him. Also, the Africans (Ugandans, maybe?) who were guarding the US base (makes no sense) also had their guns plugged.

(11-17-2015 11:42 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:39 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:13 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  ROE's are why the war hasn't been won yet.

This!

When obummer took office, they changed the rules of engagement on us. Thats why 75% of all of the deaths in the war have occurred under potus

My brother (Major - US Army) did 2 tours in the Middle East (Iraq & Afghanistan) and when he was there, he had to have a stupid orange plug in the barrel of his rifle while on base. Pretty obvious to anyone who might want to kill him. Also, the Africans (Ugandans, maybe?) who were guarding the US base (makes no sense) also had their guns plugged.

When was this? and yeah I remember the Ugandas, they wouldnt let us walk into the chow hall in TQ, an air force air base in Iraq, with our rifles, I always thought that was stupid.

It was a whole lot different once we got to Hurricane Point in Ramadi, where we were the only ones there

(11-17-2015 11:46 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:42 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:39 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:13 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  ROE's are why the war hasn't been won yet.

This!

When obummer took office, they changed the rules of engagement on us. Thats why 75% of all of the deaths in the war have occurred under potus

My brother (Major - US Army) did 2 tours in the Middle East (Iraq & Afghanistan) and when he was there, he had to have a stupid orange plug in the barrel of his rifle while on base. Pretty obvious to anyone who might want to kill him. Also, the Africans (Ugandans, maybe?) who were guarding the US base (makes no sense) also had their guns plugged.

When was this? and yeah I remember the Ugandas, they wouldnt let us walk into the chow hall in TQ, an air force air base in Iraq, with our rifles, I always thought that was stupid.

It was a whole lot different once we got to Hurricane Point in Ramadi, where we were the only ones there

Iraq in 2010 (Dhi Qar Province)
Afghanistan in 2013 (Bagram)

(11-17-2015 11:50 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:46 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:42 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:39 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:13 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  ROE's are why the war hasn't been won yet.

This!

When obummer took office, they changed the rules of engagement on us. Thats why 75% of all of the deaths in the war have occurred under potus

My brother (Major - US Army) did 2 tours in the Middle East (Iraq & Afghanistan) and when he was there, he had to have a stupid orange plug in the barrel of his rifle while on base. Pretty obvious to anyone who might want to kill him. Also, the Africans (Ugandans, maybe?) who were guarding the US base (makes no sense) also had their guns plugged.

When was this? and yeah I remember the Ugandas, they wouldnt let us walk into the chow hall in TQ, an air force air base in Iraq, with our rifles, I always thought that was stupid.

It was a whole lot different once we got to Hurricane Point in Ramadi, where we were the only ones there

Iraq in 2010 (Dhi Qar Province)
Afghanistan in 2013 (Bagram)

Yeah, that was way after me. I was in Ramadi from September 2006 to May 2007.

(11-17-2015 11:34 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:32 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:14 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:11 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 09:23 AM)Hitch Wrote:  Everyone sees the irony of bombing civilians in retaliation for civilian bombings, right?

Actually I don't see the irony. In fact, civilians were largely a part of warfare for virtually all of human history aside from the last 40 years when ordinance became "smart" and during portions of the 1700s and 1800s in Europe during musket era warfare.

It's called collateral damage. It sucks.

The only way to get ISIS to stop using human shields and hiding in hospitals is to show them that the tactic won't work. How do we do that? Bomb the holy hell out of some of them, and show them that we HAVE the stomach for it, even if we don't. They'll change tactics.

their is something to be learned from 'mafia tactics'.....threatening the familia doesn't change things...killing them does......

"They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue." - The Untouchables

the perspective of two different coon-asses:

I go to jewlane, I carry a latte

well I live in the swamps and don't give a shite.....you just entered the swamp that swallows alligator piss when there isn't another option...

I wonder who wins that conflict.....

These so called civilians in these occupied towns already gave their allegiance to ISIS when They were spared from Execution by converting to support ISIS. Many probably turned in the ones that were executed by ISIS fighters. ISIS also uses those same converts as the front line wave that gets killed when ISIS is under attack. One way or another They all will fight to the death either forcefully or willingly.

(11-17-2015 11:39 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:13 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  ROE's are why the war hasn't been won yet.

This!

When obummer took office, they changed the rules of engagement on us. Thats why 75% of all of the deaths in the war have occurred under potus

ROE's are why the Army clusterfucked Fallujah, then y'all went in and kind of sidestepped the ROE's and things improved rather quickly.

(11-17-2015 12:27 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:39 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(11-17-2015 11:13 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  ROE's are why the war hasn't been won yet.

This!

When obummer took office, they changed the rules of engagement on us. Thats why 75% of all of the deaths in the war have occurred under potus

ROE's are why the Army clusterfucked Fallujah, then y'all went in and kind of sidestepped the ROE's and things improved rather quickly.

we called it "Shoot first, ask questions later"

(11-17-2015 09:36 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-16-2015 09:52 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  To defeat ISIS you have to partition al-Anbar as a Sunni homeland for Iraqis. Go ahead and partition the Kurds and the Shia regions as well. Let the Jordanians provide security for the Sunnis.

Sunnis have their homeland then ISIS goes away. The hard core Sharia stuff didn't work in 2007-08

Blame the drunken Brit with the protractor for the fiasco.

Rather than stopping the Kurds, the best thing we could do would be to support their independence. An actual state would be better to control ISIS than two failed states in Syria and Iraq. And we would have an area that could be successful economically and be an example. Of course, it would be necessary to convince Turkey that it was in their interest as the Kurds would be landlocked with ISIS on the south and enemies in Iran and eventually Iraq in the south who wouldn't be cooperative.

I agree! The Kurds are the only ones that WILL FIGHT. The rest are cowards and cut & run!

(11-17-2015 06:17 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-16-2015 10:38 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The more you fight them the more opportunities you give for angry religious lunatics to kill Westerners.

The end result is more and more angry men show up to take advantage of that opportunity.

There is no military solution.

They seem to think the west can be defeated and are committed to that course of action. Eventually, one side or the other will run out of people that are committed to the respected causes.

Well, they know that we lack the resolve they do.

It's Vietnam syndrome. We care, for now. They care until they win.

The only way to handle this is to isolate and manipulate. We can't be in direct confrontation with them. This has got to turn into an Arab v Arab situation.

The biggest problem with that is Obama set us back 30 years by standing aside when most of our real allies were taken out. The greatest of which, in my opinion, was Ben Ali in Tunisia; a man who created a modern economy and who was a symbol of positive Western influence for the most part.