(05-04-2015 09:31 AM)Saint Greg Wrote: I think Malone and Bradshaw are on a different level than some of the other "famous" people from some of the other schools in the conference. Heck I think they're on a different level than our other hall of famers.
Yes, they are, but hardly anyone associates either of them with Louisiana Tech. Ditto Verlander for ODU. Having a great current player or HOFer doesn't help one's national brand if that player is not prominently associated with his school. Berkman and Rendon, both national Player of the Years, were more associated with Rice on a national level, than Malone or Bradshaw. Besides, the strength of one's brand has more to do with historical context and national reach than simply former players associated with the schools.
You obviously don't watch sportscenter or Fox sport on Sunday. Bradshaw mentions Tech every chance he gets and Malone name is on the basketball court and has been shown at the games many times on ESPN. But I agree with you, its just not about the former players.
Yes academics and national prominence Rice is in league by themselves. Now separate that from Rice athletic brand which was known for 70 years as the whipping boy of the SWC, now you get the picture
But there's a point to the point some people made....
you can be the whipping boy and your brand will still be more well know because of who's beating you.
Actually when you think about it espn has proven this over the last 30 years. If you follow the timeline and the number of games espn has shown you will see a shift in who's brand is getting out and who's not....
even if a school is the whipping boy
All you need to do is to look at a lot of the bottom feeder programs from the BCS conferences (including the Big East) and see how those programs became household names ..well not really household but "known". Then look at who those bottom feeder programs now is considered better than the best ...nonbcs program.
Follow espn and their timeline and you will see the changes. Once espn starting giving contracts to a conference they pump the CONFERENCE not just the good programs. It's in their best interest if the bottom team in that conference gets better. So no longer do they just pimp unc or duke but also the programs at the bottom.
The same has been happening over the last 15 or so years to lady basketball. What was once the cream of the crop...ODU, Tech and WKU are now worse in the eyes of recruits than the bottom team in a BCS conference..
it took YEARS for espn to change this but once it took hold it was quick and deciding...BRANDING, even schools that had no history, meant more than schools that won championships or made the F4 or signed overall #1 recruits a short few years before.
So there's a point to be made you can be a whipping boy and your brand still more widely known. I think Rice is long gone from that and overall they are considered to be one of the others but it still has some value
Bingo. The strength of one's national brand is not simply correlated to recent performance; in fact, as a G5 school (save for Boise state), performance has very little to do with it. With all due respect to Marshall alums, you're nuts if you think your athletic brand is strong outside West Virginia and CUSA. No question you have history in football, but never in a major conference or on a national stage. And I hate to break this to people, but a school's national reputation and recognition is intertwined with one's athletic brand; their really not separable.
And as for Rice, while we were a second tier team in the SWC from the mid-1960s - the late 1980s (along with Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor and SMU for all but the 4 - 5 years they bought players in the late 1970s/early 1980s). Rice football was a perennial Top 20 team for a 20-year period from the early 1940s - the mid-1960s. Baseball may be a secondary sport in the NCAA landscape, but the fact is Rice is the only CUSA school that has won a D-1 national championship, and we've been a perennial Top 25 baseball team for the past 20 years...and one of the 4 - 5 (along with Texas, LSU, CSF, FSU and Miami) top performing teams in the Super-regional era (since 1997) and more consistent than Texas and LSU, who have each missed the post-season on multiple occasions during this period.
I agree and that's exactly why I included Rice in the known athletic brands and defended Rice because of it's association with the SWC, see my earlier posts in this thread.
Actually Marshall brand is well known outside of WV and this is from a native Texan. As far as "performance has very little to do with it" . That is by far the most important part of athletic branding; having a school in the national spotlight being viewed by millions.
To your point "a school's national reputation and recognition is intertwined with one's athletic brand; their really not separable." Well I hate to break to you, but that's just not reality; look at the top 20 most prominent schools (Ivy schools, MIT, Chicago, John Hopkins, CalTech, Washington St.Louis, Emory and besides Stanford or Duke, I can't remember one team or heck even 1 player from any of those schools (Jeremy Lin). Those schools have nonexistent athletic brands, besides Harvard or Princeton basketball teams
Not a fact, far from it; Rice is two behind Louisiana Tech, which has three D-1 National Championships in basketball and I believe ODU has 1 also.
(This post was last modified: 05-05-2015 05:46 PM by Dawgxas.)
(05-05-2015 04:15 PM)Cscollis Wrote: Goto a sporting goods store and look for your teams products. If there aren't any available outside your city, you have a branding problem.
I grew up in Charlottesville VA until the age of 9 and I can honestly say I had never heard of or seen anything ODU until they joined CUSA in 2013. I am almost 50 now.
If you are looking at Football branding, former players matter. MU crash,and Randy Moss, Bret Farve USM, Terry Bradshaw at Latech, are the most recognizable names for the CUSA school brands. When players excel at the next level, it builds your brand. Tech has received more pub for a second rate Qb that sells duck calls but it helps our brand.
Current success will help the older generations remember the greats of the past. If you have no past, you have no brand.
"Berkman and Rendon, both national Player of the Years, were more associated with Rice on a national level, than Malone or Bradshaw." Now that's funny, because I can't name 5 players in the MLB right now and where they attended college. There is huge disconnect between baseball players and their colleges. Ask any sports fan, or sports bettor.
With baseball players the majority of baseball players did not play college ball and the proving grounds for the pros is the minor league unlike football and basketball.
College baseball is not watch or televised like football and basketball. So fans don't have the opportunity to follow baseball players from college to the pros. Unlike basketball and football where one says "I remember watching him play in college, I knew he was going to be good" So the association between colleges and players is just not there in the MLB
(This post was last modified: 05-05-2015 11:30 PM by Dawgxas.)
Again, this is a great example of branding. Verlander's dad could have worn any other t-shirt and Ben Verlander could have been interviewed beside a brick wall. But that's not how ODU rolls. This is just one example of many that ODU does well to spread the brand.
Those who watched this video learned what school Justin and Ben went to. And that's priceless.
(This post was last modified: 05-05-2015 11:40 PM by Sirloin Burger.)
"Berkman and Rendon, both national Player of the Years, were more associated with Rice on a national level, than Malone or Bradshaw." Now that's funny, because I can't name 5 players in the MLB right now and where they attended college. There is huge disconnect between baseball players and their colleges. Ask any sports fan, or sports bettor.
With baseball players the majority of baseball players did not play college ball and the proving grounds for the pros is the minor league unlike football and basketball.
College baseball is not watch or televised like football and basketball. So fans don't have the opportunity to follow baseball players from college to the pros. Unlike basketball and football where one says "I remember watching him play in college, I knew he was going to be good" So the association between colleges and players is just not there in the MLB
And who the heck outside Louisiana followed-- or even knew about-- either Malone or Bradshaw-- before they were drafted? Nobody. I can still remember being shocked when the Steelers drafted Bradshaw with their #1. Remember, this was long before ESPN and the pre-draft coverage and build up.
Some of the older Rice fans should remember this. (I do)
From the Washington Post, December 6, 1984:
Rice junior center Dave Ramer will undergo reconstructive surgery Friday in Houston to repair multiple injuries suffered in what Coach Tommy Suitts says was an intentional elbowing incident in Monday’s game against Louisiana Tech. Ramer has a depressed cheekbone, fractures above and below his right eye socket and a collapsed sinus after the incident involving Louisiana Tech’s Karl Malone.
Malone had gone up for a rebound and came down swinging his elbows. Ramer was unfortunate enough to be in the same area code. The blow shattered Ramer’s cheekbone, and he went down screaming in pain. Malone just looked at him and walked away.
"Berkman and Rendon, both national Player of the Years, were more associated with Rice on a national level, than Malone or Bradshaw." Now that's funny, because I can't name 5 players in the MLB right now and where they attended college. There is huge disconnect between baseball players and their colleges. Ask any sports fan, or sports bettor.
With baseball players the majority of baseball players did not play college ball and the proving grounds for the pros is the minor league unlike football and basketball.
College baseball is not watch or televised like football and basketball. So fans don't have the opportunity to follow baseball players from college to the pros. Unlike basketball and football where one says "I remember watching him play in college, I knew he was going to be good" So the association between colleges and players is just not there in the MLB
And who the heck outside Louisiana followed-- or even knew about-- either Malone or Bradshaw-- before they were drafted? Nobody. I can still remember being shocked when the Steelers drafted Bradshaw with their #1. Remember, this was long before ESPN and the pre-draft coverage and build up.
I'm sure it was a shock to everyone when Bradshaw was drafted #1.
"Berkman and Rendon, both national Player of the Years, were more associated with Rice on a national level, than Malone or Bradshaw." Now that's funny, because I can't name 5 players in the MLB right now and where they attended college. There is huge disconnect between baseball players and their colleges. Ask any sports fan, or sports bettor.
With baseball players the majority of baseball players did not play college ball and the proving grounds for the pros is the minor league unlike football and basketball.
College baseball is not watch or televised like football and basketball. So fans don't have the opportunity to follow baseball players from college to the pros. Unlike basketball and football where one says "I remember watching him play in college, I knew he was going to be good" So the association between colleges and players is just not there in the MLB
And who the heck outside Louisiana followed-- or even knew about-- either Malone or Bradshaw-- before they were drafted? Nobody. I can still remember being shocked when the Steelers drafted Bradshaw with their #1. Remember, this was long before ESPN and the pre-draft coverage and build up.
I'm sure it was a shock to everyone when Bradshaw was drafted #1.
(05-06-2015 11:33 AM)T_Won1 Wrote: Some of the older Rice fans should remember this. (I do)
From the Washington Post, December 6, 1984:
Rice junior center Dave Ramer will undergo reconstructive surgery Friday in Houston to repair multiple injuries suffered in what Coach Tommy Suitts says was an intentional elbowing incident in Monday’s game against Louisiana Tech. Ramer has a depressed cheekbone, fractures above and below his right eye socket and a collapsed sinus after the incident involving Louisiana Tech’s Karl Malone.
Malone had gone up for a rebound and came down swinging his elbows. Ramer was unfortunate enough to be in the same area code. The blow shattered Ramer’s cheekbone, and he went down screaming in pain. Malone just looked at him and walked away.
One of many victims of Malone's elbows in his career
"Berkman and Rendon, both national Player of the Years, were more associated with Rice on a national level, than Malone or Bradshaw." Now that's funny, because I can't name 5 players in the MLB right now and where they attended college. There is huge disconnect between baseball players and their colleges. Ask any sports fan, or sports bettor.
With baseball players the majority of baseball players did not play college ball and the proving grounds for the pros is the minor league unlike football and basketball.
College baseball is not watch or televised like football and basketball. So fans don't have the opportunity to follow baseball players from college to the pros. Unlike basketball and football where one says "I remember watching him play in college, I knew he was going to be good" So the association between colleges and players is just not there in the MLB
And who the heck outside Louisiana followed-- or even knew about-- either Malone or Bradshaw-- before they were drafted? Nobody. I can still remember being shocked when the Steelers drafted Bradshaw with their #1. Remember, this was long before ESPN and the pre-draft coverage and build up.
(Not bashing college baseball) But that can be said about practically every college baseball player, outside of the CWS hardly anyone watches college baseball much less actually know the players. Add on top of that most MLB players don't even play college baseball and quite a few are from outside the US. There is hardly no connection between MLB players and colleges on a "national level"
The only time a remember what college a baseball player went to, is when I'm actually at a MLB game and it is put on the scoreboard. Because it is sure not talk about or mention on TV, unlike football and basketball. It is really no comparison to basketball and football.
I actually find what you said quite funny because it is the opposite of reality.
"Berkman and Rendon, both national Player of the Years, were more associated with Rice on a national level, than Malone or Bradshaw."
(05-06-2015 11:33 AM)T_Won1 Wrote: Some of the older Rice fans should remember this. (I do)
From the Washington Post, December 6, 1984:
Rice junior center Dave Ramer will undergo reconstructive surgery Friday in Houston to repair multiple injuries suffered in what Coach Tommy Suitts says was an intentional elbowing incident in Monday’s game against Louisiana Tech. Ramer has a depressed cheekbone, fractures above and below his right eye socket and a collapsed sinus after the incident involving Louisiana Tech’s Karl Malone.
Malone had gone up for a rebound and came down swinging his elbows. Ramer was unfortunate enough to be in the same area code. The blow shattered Ramer’s cheekbone, and he went down screaming in pain. Malone just looked at him and walked away.
Malone should have been in jail, not on a basketball court.
. That is by far the most important part of athletic branding; having a school in the national spotlight being viewed by millions.
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