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Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
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Post: #61
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 01:05 PM)FlyHawk98 Wrote:  Oh one other thing.....

So sick of you guys constantly trying to claim that you are the only CUSA team to have won at least 7 games over the last 4 years. You guys have only been in CUSA for 2 seasons....

During that time Marshall has won CUSA East BOTH TIMES and have had double digit wins BOTH years.

So how does that change the fact I stated?

Western is the only school in CUSA ....today, TODAY, playing in 2015...TODAY

so again tell me how that changes the fact of Western being the only school playing in CUSA to win 7 or more games (winning season) in each of the last 4 years?
05-04-2015 01:26 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
Mine's about 6 1/2 inches.
05-04-2015 01:26 PM
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Post: #63
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 01:26 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  Mine's about 6 1/2 inches.

I'm sorry. 02-13-banana Couldn't resist.
05-04-2015 01:27 PM
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Post: #64
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
One thing this exercise does make obvious (and painfully so for us Blue Raiders) is that a brand can be manufactured in many different ways and doesn't necessarily require success across the board to matter. That's where I believe Middle Tennessee has failed. We are universally competitive across the board. Sans softball nearly every other sport on our campus is competing for championships annually or at least in the mix. That actually sounds like a good thing right? Except its not enough. Heck, even toss in a few wins here and there over the "big" programs that we aren't supposed to beat and stir it all up and what we have to show for it isn't much.

However, some schools that have poured more into a single sport while virtually ignoring all the other sports are benefitting in the realm of public perception and thus "brand" along the way.

Western and Marshall are two examples in our conference. Western couldn't have given two turds about football for decades as their basketball program was playing at an elite level back in that ancient era. Now, Western has certainly shifted that strategy in the modern era but they had something to build on by that point most of us aren't as fortunate to have. Marshall's brand? How was it built? A tragic accident and being the go to place for stud drop downs who couldn't cut it socially or stay out of trouble at the so called power schools. Marshall's non-football facilities indicate where their priority lies. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just pointing out the obvious.

You can even look at Boise St that built theirs on some improbable upsets and then parlayed that into money, which they have summarily dumped right back into football to build a bigger program. There's lots of ways to build brand and I'm not saying any one way is right or wrong. But it's not always about doing it the right way, being competive and winning.

None of us. Let me repeat none of us come from the silver spoon fed origins that provided inherent and automatic brands by being that state's land grand institution and the noteriety that comes from being affiliated with the specific set of other schools in a conference that also all have that same type of designation. We are indeed at an inherent disadvantage that pre dates all of us before we were even born by 100 years and as much as 200 years in some instances. That, more than anything else, despite its roots centuries ago had already pre-ordained "brands" when it came to colleges, universities and their sports teams. There isn't much sense in getting bent out of shape over something that we actually have so little control over.

As for Middle Tennessee, I once took pride in our "complete" athletic department but now I wish we would have and would still just go all in on football while sacrificing some of the other sports in the short term to build a better brand. Something a little more similar to what Marshall and Boise have done. But then again we can't even brand our university and its athletics programs with the same name, so we have a long way to go.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 01:31 PM by ThreeifbyLightning.)
05-04-2015 01:29 PM
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Post: #65
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
Whenever I talk to casual fans about who's in CUSA, the first three teams I mention are Marshall, Southern Miss., and Rice.
05-04-2015 01:32 PM
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RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 01:19 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  Agree with those above about how difficult it is to define "brand". It's also a generational thing. Folks in their 40's, 50's, and 60's see things differently than those in their 20's and 30's.

With that said, when I think of "brand" I think of national awareness based on performance on the field/court and also throw in the "uniqueness" factor too. The only current CUSA schools that I think even comes close are UAB, USM and UTEP. All three get mentioned in national media somewhat regularly because of performance (past or present). Rice gets it for the "elite private school" uniqueness factor sometimes. ODU gets it because of the uniqueness of their name. LaTech has the benefit of not having a hyphen or directional name attached so they can benefit from the loose association with other "techs"...i.e. GaTech, VaTech, etc. There is a stigma that is almost unsurmountable if your school is a directional school or hypenated school. Marshall get it's because of a sympathetic movie.

WKU, FIU, FAU, UTSA, MTSU, UNT, UTSA, and UNCC (Charlotte now) have no national brand in my perspective. Each have had some success in certain areas over the years but nothing sustained that drives it home...i.e. VCU/Butler. Ten year ago, no one talked about or considered VCU or Butler as anything more than quaint mid majors, if they'd ever even heard of them at all.

I can't argue with WKUYG's data above. It's accurate and I think WKU is generally known as a basketball school and yes, Petrino's hire made folks aware that we were FBS, but that press is waining and not sustainable.

You mention UAB when was the last time before this year's NCAA tourney have you seen them in the "national press"? Or UTEP? USM for their football is the only school out of the 3 you listed had any "national brand" out of those 3.

Western had more "national branding" than both UAB and UTEP in the last 2 football games than either of those schools in the last 10 years. So while Western is a new name to FBS football and BP got our name out there ....

Western has continue to build off that and will most likely be the "media darlings" of the G5 this year...as long as we TCB. So how is that not sustaining? You or I don't know the future so that's yet to be seen but while Western laid a egg early in conference play....

the "national branding" was build on in the last 2 football games from 2014 and the table is set to build on it even more in 2015
05-04-2015 01:38 PM
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Post: #67
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 01:38 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  You mention UAB when was the last time before this year's NCAA tourney have you seen them in the "national press"? Or UTEP? USM for their football is the only school out of the 3 you listed had any "national brand" out of those 3.

Western had more "national branding" than both UAB and UTEP in the last 2 football games than either of those schools in the last 10 years. So while Western is a new name to FBS football and BP got our name out there ....

Western has continue to build off that and will most likely be the "media darlings" of the G5 this year...as long as we TCB. So how is that not sustaining? You or I don't know the future so that's yet to be seen but while Western laid a egg early in conference play....

the "national branding" was build on in the last 2 football games from 2014 and the table is set to build on it even more in 2015

As to UAB and UTEP, it doesn't matter whether WKU has had more success than those schools in the last 20-30 years. What matters is those two were playing in much better conferences during that time, playing nationally branded schools regularly and talked about....WKU won games, had a handful of nice upsets here and there, got some votes occassionally and even made the tourney more but in the mind of the average person on the street, they heard more about UAB and UTEP in the last 20-30 years than they did WKU.

As to football, if we fail out of the gate in the fall, your argument is moot. That's why this thread is about what was/is rather than what will be.
05-04-2015 01:46 PM
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Post: #68
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 01:46 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 01:38 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  You mention UAB when was the last time before this year's NCAA tourney have you seen them in the "national press"? Or UTEP? USM for their football is the only school out of the 3 you listed had any "national brand" out of those 3.

Western had more "national branding" than both UAB and UTEP in the last 2 football games than either of those schools in the last 10 years. So while Western is a new name to FBS football and BP got our name out there ....

Western has continue to build off that and will most likely be the "media darlings" of the G5 this year...as long as we TCB. So how is that not sustaining? You or I don't know the future so that's yet to be seen but while Western laid a egg early in conference play....

the "national branding" was build on in the last 2 football games from 2014 and the table is set to build on it even more in 2015

As to UAB and UTEP, it doesn't matter whether WKU has had more success than those schools in the last 20-30 years. What matters is those two were playing in much better conferences during that time, playing nationally branded schools regularly and talked about....WKU won games, had a handful of nice upsets here and there, got some votes occassionally and even made the tourney more but in the mind of the average person on the street, they heard more about UAB and UTEP in the last 20-30 years than they did WKU.

As to football, if we fail out of the gate in the fall, your argument is moot. That's why this thread is about what was/is rather than what will be.

Again that;s your opinion and I guess that's what this whole topic is about...opinions. But if you could point me to this national branding it would save me the time spent on searching...

because no matter the conference or who each played I can't find enough to say they are any different than any other school.

As for the football and this year...

you said it "wasn't" sustainable. Which to me points to future days and years. So while you're right if we lose out of the gate, and over the last few years from reading your post...you seem to look at things more of they will go bad, I understand your point of view. But the past also reflects...Western is more likely to come out of the gate strong, then flounder, if we are going to...

it also reflects Western should win 7 or more games but then again that would be something no current CUSA school has done
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 02:06 PM by WKUYG.)
05-04-2015 01:59 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 01:59 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Again that;s your opinion and I guess that's what this whole topic is about...opinions. But if you could point me to this national branding it would save me the time spent on searching...

because no matter the conference or who each played I can't find enough to say they are any different than any other school.

As for the football and this year...

you said it "wasn't" sustainable. Which to me points to future days and years. So while you're right if we lose out of the gate, and over the last few years from reading your post...you seem to look at things more of they will go bad, I understand your point of view. But the past also reflects...Western is more likely to come out of the gate strong, then flounder, if we are going to...

it also reflects Western should win 7 or more games but then again that would be something no current CUSA school has done

Yes, it's an opinion, as are all these posts on subjective topics. My first post in this thread stated that I agree that it's difficult to define "brand" and I stated what I thought it was....."awareness". One must hear about or see in order to be aware. In my humble opinion, UAB and UTEP have been heard about and seen in the media far more...over time...in the last couple decades than WKU. WKU was stuck in the lowly SBC with little to no mention during the season in the national media. UAB and UTEP were playing Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, etc. on national TV on a regular basis. Americans are aware of UAB and UTEP, regardless of how many NCAA tournaments they played in.

As to football, I mentioned that the press we got from Petrino was not sustainable.....and since he no longer coaches at WKU, I think my point is valid. We got our bang for the buck out of him in his short tenure here but that press is going, going, gone.

Do we have potential this fall to be media darlings? Absolutely but until then, our "brand" is....we finished above 500 for four straight years.....yeehaaa...
05-04-2015 02:14 PM
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RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 10:28 AM)FlyHawk98 Wrote:  Marshall
So Miss
UTEP
Rice
Old Dominion


Everyone else

Looking at that list, only the Rice Owls are destined to be in CUSA forever.

I'd argue that UAB belongs on that list too; and UAB has been, and would always be, a stalwart member of CUSA. Marshall, So Miss, and ODU, may conceivably be in line for AAC membership; while UTEP may be in the MWC someday.

If the strength of our brands are, indeed, relative to certain sports, then would having olympic-only members really be that bad? That concession may open up CUSA to more profitable additions to our membership in the future. I'd love to add a Dallas Baptist in baseball and there are a few basketball schools out there that would help with the heavy lifting in that sport.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 02:18 PM by BoKnows.)
05-04-2015 02:18 PM
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RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 12:04 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 11:37 AM)Dawgxas Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 10:52 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 10:04 AM)WKUApollo Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 09:46 AM)Dawgxas Wrote:  There has been multitudes of one and done teams, brand awareness in the tournament would come from advancing to at least the second weekend or sweet sixteen.

Even lower-tiered bowl games will have more viewers than most tournament basketball games. Overall athletic brand awareness comes from football and basketball a distance second. That's why many list include Marshall, Southern Miss, Tech, UTEP, Rice, UAB and the rest. These teams have been playing FBS football longer

Although there's some truth to what you say, I'd wager that to the average man/woman/transgender on the street, the basketball tournament is more broadly known than the dozens of lesser known Bowl games. For example, millions and millions of folks do their tourney brackets every year (heck, my 65 year old mother does one). Each and every year, millions of people see the names of these schools and many times, the non-P5 schools bust their brackets. They remember them. They may not know anything about that school but they "recognize" the names, especially if that same school appears year after year. Outside the football hotbed areas (i.e. the deep south), only diehard sports fans pay attention to football Bowls beyond the "big" bowls...and even then, the average man/woman/transgender on the street only pays attention to the National Championship Bowl.

According to TV by the Numbers, NCAA tournament games (opening round on up) well outdrew lower/mid tier bowls.

CUSA made its' name and rep based on "basketball first" schools. When first formed, it was considered (by the media) to be a major conference (bball). One unbiased way to gauge brand value would to compare licensing and rights fees. Kind of "You are what they pay you for."

ETA: SportsMediaWatch for comparison.


Why will TV networks will pay so much more for football coverage? Because Football outdraws basketball, and it is not even close. I played basketball and it is my favorite sport but it doesn't hold a candle to football as far as popularity not only in the deep South but the US.

Article:
"Arizona's win over Texas Southern in the N.C.A.A. tournament, left, had 501,000 viewers, the fewest among the tournament's opening games. The inaugural Camellia Bowl, right, had the fewest viewers of the 38 N.C.A.A. bowl games — it drew 1.1 million"
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/sports....html?_r=0

You are correct if you include the playin games. From Thursday on, ratings favored bball...which is saying something considering times and dates (holiday/vacation time vs. workday mid-march). No doubt, TV is paying for Fball. BUT, this thread is about brand value. It can be established via bball and possibly, at more bang for the buck.

ETA: My nod to licensing and rights fees. There are several schools considered "bball first" being paid a bit more. IIRC, WKU and ODU have the most lucrative contracts. Saying that, I wasn't able to locate all teams when I looked at it months ago. Interesting nonetheless.

From the article:
Quote:The early afternoon window brought up the rear with a respectable 4.6, even with last year, up 12% from 2013 (4.1), and tied as the top overnight for the window on record. The window featured two #14-over-#3 upsets, Georgia State/Baylor on TBS and UAB/Iowa State on TNT, as well as Northeastern’s near-upset of Notre Dame on CBS.

Compared to:

1.6/2.25M 11:00 AM Nevada/UL-Lafayette
New Orleans Bowl ESPN
1.4/2.12M
Las Vegas Bowl ABC
1.3/1.92M
New Mexico Bowl ESPN
0.9/1.45M
Western Michigan/Air Force
Famous Idaho Potato Bowl ESPN
0.7/1.11M
So. Alabama/Bowling Green
Camellia Bowl ESPN
0.9/1.32M
BYU/Memphis
1.6/2.46M
9:30 PM Navy/San Diego State
Poinsettia Bowl ESPN
1.4/2.25M
6:00 PM Marshall/No. Illinois
Boca Raton Bowl ESPN
1.3/1.91M
Fresno State/Rice
Hawaii Bowl ESPN
1.1/1.50M
Cent. Michigan/W. Kentucky
Bahamas Bowl ESPN

The ratings don't favor bball, and it hasn't for the last 25 years.

NCAA football championship games blows the basketball championship game away every year. Take away Duke and the viewership would have been a lot lower and wouldn't even matched Football New Year's semifinal games which drew 28 million viewers just many as the bball national championship game. That's why TV pays for football, way more viewers. Follow the money, same thing I told ODUSmitty


As far as licensing fees, Yes there are a few schools that have more established basketball brand than football brand Duke, UNC, Kansas. If team can consistently make deep in the tournament such as Gongzaga, Butler, Wichita State. Then I would definitely agree more bang for the buck. But no current CUSA has done that in today's game. The schools mentioned are because WKU moved to FBS a few years ago and ODU just started a football team
05-04-2015 02:25 PM
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RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 02:14 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 01:59 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Again that;s your opinion and I guess that's what this whole topic is about...opinions. But if you could point me to this national branding it would save me the time spent on searching...

because no matter the conference or who each played I can't find enough to say they are any different than any other school.

As for the football and this year...

you said it "wasn't" sustainable. Which to me points to future days and years. So while you're right if we lose out of the gate, and over the last few years from reading your post...you seem to look at things more of they will go bad, I understand your point of view. But the past also reflects...Western is more likely to come out of the gate strong, then flounder, if we are going to...

it also reflects Western should win 7 or more games but then again that would be something no current CUSA school has done

Yes, it's an opinion, as are all these posts on subjective topics. My first post in this thread stated that I agree that it's difficult to define "brand" and I stated what I thought it was....."awareness". One must hear about or see in order to be aware. In my humble opinion, UAB and UTEP have been heard about and seen in the media far more...over time...in the last couple decades than WKU. WKU was stuck in the lowly SBC with little to no mention during the season in the national media. UAB and UTEP were playing Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, etc. on national TV on a regular basis. Americans are aware of UAB and UTEP, regardless of how many NCAA tournaments they played in.

As to football, I mentioned that the press we got from Petrino was not sustainable.....and since he no longer coaches at WKU, I think my point is valid. We got our bang for the buck out of him in his short tenure here but that press is going, going, gone.

Do we have potential this fall to be media darlings? Absolutely but until then, our "brand" is....we finished above 500 for four straight years.....yeehaaa...

So I think I get your point

UAB and UTEP got more press ..."branding" for who beat the dogcrap out of them...not anything they did?

As for the sustainable just because a coach or player is no longer there doesn't mean you can't sustain the press coverage.


So didn't that national branding go out the same door..UofL, Memphis, Cinn went out of? So I believe this topic means...TODAY
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 02:45 PM by WKUYG.)
05-04-2015 02:35 PM
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RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 02:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 02:14 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 01:59 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Again that;s your opinion and I guess that's what this whole topic is about...opinions. But if you could point me to this national branding it would save me the time spent on searching...

because no matter the conference or who each played I can't find enough to say they are any different than any other school.

As for the football and this year...

you said it "wasn't" sustainable. Which to me points to future days and years. So while you're right if we lose out of the gate, and over the last few years from reading your post...you seem to look at things more of they will go bad, I understand your point of view. But the past also reflects...Western is more likely to come out of the gate strong, then flounder, if we are going to...

it also reflects Western should win 7 or more games but then again that would be something no current CUSA school has done

Yes, it's an opinion, as are all these posts on subjective topics. My first post in this thread stated that I agree that it's difficult to define "brand" and I stated what I thought it was....."awareness". One must hear about or see in order to be aware. In my humble opinion, UAB and UTEP have been heard about and seen in the media far more...over time...in the last couple decades than WKU. WKU was stuck in the lowly SBC with little to no mention during the season in the national media. UAB and UTEP were playing Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, etc. on national TV on a regular basis. Americans are aware of UAB and UTEP, regardless of how many NCAA tournaments they played in.

As to football, I mentioned that the press we got from Petrino was not sustainable.....and since he no longer coaches at WKU, I think my point is valid. We got our bang for the buck out of him in his short tenure here but that press is going, going, gone.

Do we have potential this fall to be media darlings? Absolutely but until then, our "brand" is....we finished above 500 for four straight years.....yeehaaa...

So I think I get your point

UAB and UTEP got more press ..."branding" for who beat the dogcrap out of them...not anything they did?

As for the sustainable just because a coach or player is no longer there doesn't mean you can't sustain the press coverage. If we are going to look at things in that light...

every school that played in any of the previous versions of CUSA including UAB, UTEP, has ZERO chance to at sustaining the press they got from playing UofL, Memphis, Cinn...right?

But since you are saying Western can't just because a coach is no longer there....

didn't UAB and UTEP stop sustaining their "national brand" the day those other schools left? If so and this topic is about TODAY...

or is it?

OK...you're comparing decades of media exposure and press those schools got for playing widely considered great teams (and many times playing them well and beating them) against WKU's one year trist with Bobby Petrino? OK, gotcha..

Listen, I love WKU. I think we are a great addition to CUSA and will be a top tier program in the league for years to come in both basketball and football.....as we've always been in every league we've ever played in. I think we have the potential, now that we have quality programs to work play with, to reach greater heights than we have in the last couple decades. I'm just trying to be real here. I think WKU has a good brand. When you put MBB, WBB, and Football together, regardless of the level or league we've played in, we've always had sustained success on the national level. Final Fours in both Men's and Women's Basketball, 3 national title games at the DivII/FCS level in football, awesome lists of 20 win seasons in MBB and WBB, decades of football winning seasons, etc., etc., etc. All of that means very little in the mind of the casual sports fan. In essence, when VCU, ODU, UAB, LaTech, etc. left us behind in the SBC back in the early 90's, we've essentially been playing Division II basketball in the minds of the casual sports fan......just as we were with football until we moved to FBS.

Fwiw, no SBC fan was intentionally harmed by this post.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 02:50 PM by WKUApollo.)
05-04-2015 02:48 PM
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RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 02:48 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 02:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 02:14 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 01:59 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Again that;s your opinion and I guess that's what this whole topic is about...opinions. But if you could point me to this national branding it would save me the time spent on searching...

because no matter the conference or who each played I can't find enough to say they are any different than any other school.

As for the football and this year...

you said it "wasn't" sustainable. Which to me points to future days and years. So while you're right if we lose out of the gate, and over the last few years from reading your post...you seem to look at things more of they will go bad, I understand your point of view. But the past also reflects...Western is more likely to come out of the gate strong, then flounder, if we are going to...

it also reflects Western should win 7 or more games but then again that would be something no current CUSA school has done

Yes, it's an opinion, as are all these posts on subjective topics. My first post in this thread stated that I agree that it's difficult to define "brand" and I stated what I thought it was....."awareness". One must hear about or see in order to be aware. In my humble opinion, UAB and UTEP have been heard about and seen in the media far more...over time...in the last couple decades than WKU. WKU was stuck in the lowly SBC with little to no mention during the season in the national media. UAB and UTEP were playing Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, etc. on national TV on a regular basis. Americans are aware of UAB and UTEP, regardless of how many NCAA tournaments they played in.

As to football, I mentioned that the press we got from Petrino was not sustainable.....and since he no longer coaches at WKU, I think my point is valid. We got our bang for the buck out of him in his short tenure here but that press is going, going, gone.

Do we have potential this fall to be media darlings? Absolutely but until then, our "brand" is....we finished above 500 for four straight years.....yeehaaa...

So I think I get your point

UAB and UTEP got more press ..."branding" for who beat the dogcrap out of them...not anything they did?

As for the sustainable just because a coach or player is no longer there doesn't mean you can't sustain the press coverage. If we are going to look at things in that light...

every school that played in any of the previous versions of CUSA including UAB, UTEP, has ZERO chance to at sustaining the press they got from playing UofL, Memphis, Cinn...right?

But since you are saying Western can't just because a coach is no longer there....

didn't UAB and UTEP stop sustaining their "national brand" the day those other schools left? If so and this topic is about TODAY...

or is it?

OK...you're comparing decades of media exposure and press those schools got for playing widely considered great teams (and many times playing them well and beating them) against WKU's one year trist with Bobby Petrino? OK, gotcha..

Listen, I love WKU. I think we are a great addition to CUSA and will be a top tier program in the league for years to come in both basketball and football.....as we've always been in every league we've ever played in. I think we have the potential, now that we have quality programs to work play with, to reach greater heights than we have in the last couple decades. I'm just trying to be real here. I think WKU has a good brand. When you put MBB, WBB, and Football together, regardless of the level or league we've played in, we've always had sustained success on the national level. Final Fours in both Men's and Women's Basketball, 3 national title games at the DivII/FCS level in football, awesome lists of 20 win seasons in MBB and WBB, decades of football winning seasons, etc., etc., etc. All of that means very little in the mind of the casual sports fan. In essence, when VCU, ODU, UAB, LaTech, etc. left us behind in the SBC back in the early 90's, we've essentially been playing Division II basketball in the minds of the casual sports fan......just as we were with football until we moved to FBS.

Fwiw, no SBC fan was intentionally harmed by this post.




It was you that was comparing UAB and UTEP ( who never was in the conference with any of them) playing those schools...11 years ago as making them a "national brand". Yes it's been 11 YEARS since they played in CUSA.

It was also you that made the argument that the NCAA Tourney would probably make a team more known than a lot of bowl games. So I didn't only use BP in my argument...I also used basketball. And while I used numbers from as far back as 30 years ago...

I also used numbers from 5 and ten years ago.

As far as BP goes Western received a TON of top flight media coverage..espn, Yahoo, USA Today, Fox Sports...NATIONAL COVERAGE and does it really matter if some or even most of that was about BP's past?...

can't to this argument. Not if you are using the fact UAB got a national branding because of schools who beat them.

Again....you used both argument and I gave my opinion on why I thought they were wrong. Western has used the BP coverage and building on it and while you are right Western hasn't sustain the national coverage BP brought...

it's only been a little over a year and those last 2 games of 2014 game gave Western another foothold into that NATIONAL COVERAGE. With the team coming back it also gives Western the chance to build on to that. If you can't admit to that...

you get the last word because I don't need to waste any more time on this.

(edit) causal fans don't build a national branding...most fans can't name the schools in their conference muchless one team in CUSA. The media builds branding. So 11 years ago UAB got the benefit of [playing in a strong conference just as the bottom feeder P5 schools get today. But that was 11 yeas ago and I don't know how you can say any of that plays into national branding today...

not when the attention span of the average sports fan last to yesterday (last game) and as far as media goes unless you do something on the field or court to standout for a new of years...

WIN ALL YOUR GAMES
HOT NEW COACH
NCAA RUN
TOP 25
A HOT OLD COACH THAT GOT FIRED

they are not going to make any of us a national brand...other than that small time frame
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 03:44 PM by WKUYG.)
05-04-2015 03:09 PM
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CajunFanatico Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 12:02 PM)T_Won1 Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 11:48 AM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  The UNTs, Hayden Fry, ranked no. 17 in 1977, nuff said.


They have the football history over ULL.

UNT record: 424-391-31 (.52)
ULL record: 512-514-30 (.49)

Sun Belt championships: UNT 3, ULL 0

Head to Head: 9-8, UNT

Having dominated the Cajuns alone is enough to prove my point. They are legends and the rest of you guys couldn't hold their jocks.
05-04-2015 03:13 PM
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WKUApollo Online
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Post: #76
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 03:09 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  It was you that was comparing UAB and UTEP ( who never was in the conference with any of them) playing those schools...11 years ago as making them a "national brand". Yes it's been 11 YEARS since they played in CUSA.

It was also you that made the argument that the NCAA Tourney would probably make a team more known than a lot of bowl games. So I didn't only use BP in my argument...I also used basketball. And while I used numbers from as far back as 30 years ago...

I also used numbers from 5 and ten years ago.

As far as BP goes Western received a TON of top flight media coverage..espn, Yahoo, USA Today, Fox Sports...NATIONAL COVERAGE and does it really matter if some or even most of that was about BP's past?...

can't to this argument. Not if you are using the fact UAB got a national branding because of schools who beat them.

Again....you used both argument and I gave my opinion on why I thought they were wrong. Western has used the BP coverage and building on it and while you are right Western hasn't sustain the national coverage BP brought...

it's only been a little over a year and those last 2 games of 2014 game gave Western another foothold into that NATIONAL COVERAGE. With the team coming back it also gives Western the chance to build on to that. If you can't admit to that...

you get the last word because I don't need to waste any more time on this.

Actually, I was gonna let you have the last word but I decided to make one clarification...I listed Louisville, Cincy, Memphis but I also said "etc." because I knew UTEP had played in the WAC with Utah, BYU, UNLV, Fresno ,etc before coming to CUSA so they had regularly played other "name" programs as well.
05-04-2015 03:35 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #77
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 03:35 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 03:09 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  It was you that was comparing UAB and UTEP ( who never was in the conference with any of them) playing those schools...11 years ago as making them a "national brand". Yes it's been 11 YEARS since they played in CUSA.

It was also you that made the argument that the NCAA Tourney would probably make a team more known than a lot of bowl games. So I didn't only use BP in my argument...I also used basketball. And while I used numbers from as far back as 30 years ago...

I also used numbers from 5 and ten years ago.

As far as BP goes Western received a TON of top flight media coverage..espn, Yahoo, USA Today, Fox Sports...NATIONAL COVERAGE and does it really matter if some or even most of that was about BP's past?...

can't to this argument. Not if you are using the fact UAB got a national branding because of schools who beat them.

Again....you used both argument and I gave my opinion on why I thought they were wrong. Western has used the BP coverage and building on it and while you are right Western hasn't sustain the national coverage BP brought...

it's only been a little over a year and those last 2 games of 2014 game gave Western another foothold into that NATIONAL COVERAGE. With the team coming back it also gives Western the chance to build on to that. If you can't admit to that...

you get the last word because I don't need to waste any more time on this.

Actually, I was gonna let you have the last word but I decided to make one clarification...I listed Louisville, Cincy, Memphis but I also said "etc." because I knew UTEP had played in the WAC with Utah, BYU, UNLV, Fresno ,etc before coming to CUSA so they had regularly played other "name" programs as well.

Well I intended to give you the last word but wanted to add this one thing...

you kept talking about SBC SBC SBC and the lack of respect playing in it.

Out of UAB, UTEP and WKU....

I will give you a guess on which one of the 3 playing in the...SBC, CUSA, WAC

last had a AP preseason top 20 team

respect is earned and will find you once you earn it but I guess you can get national branding by who beats you...
all we have to do is look at how espn sells the bottom feeder P5 programs
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 04:55 PM by WKUYG.)
05-04-2015 04:43 PM
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gulfcoastgal Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 02:25 PM)Dawgxas Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 12:04 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 11:37 AM)Dawgxas Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 10:52 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 10:04 AM)WKUApollo Wrote:  Although there's some truth to what you say, I'd wager that to the average man/woman/transgender on the street, the basketball tournament is more broadly known than the dozens of lesser known Bowl games. For example, millions and millions of folks do their tourney brackets every year (heck, my 65 year old mother does one). Each and every year, millions of people see the names of these schools and many times, the non-P5 schools bust their brackets. They remember them. They may not know anything about that school but they "recognize" the names, especially if that same school appears year after year. Outside the football hotbed areas (i.e. the deep south), only diehard sports fans pay attention to football Bowls beyond the "big" bowls...and even then, the average man/woman/transgender on the street only pays attention to the National Championship Bowl.

According to TV by the Numbers, NCAA tournament games (opening round on up) well outdrew lower/mid tier bowls.

CUSA made its' name and rep based on "basketball first" schools. When first formed, it was considered (by the media) to be a major conference (bball). One unbiased way to gauge brand value would to compare licensing and rights fees. Kind of "You are what they pay you for."

ETA: SportsMediaWatch for comparison.


Why will TV networks will pay so much more for football coverage? Because Football outdraws basketball, and it is not even close. I played basketball and it is my favorite sport but it doesn't hold a candle to football as far as popularity not only in the deep South but the US.

Article:
"Arizona's win over Texas Southern in the N.C.A.A. tournament, left, had 501,000 viewers, the fewest among the tournament's opening games. The inaugural Camellia Bowl, right, had the fewest viewers of the 38 N.C.A.A. bowl games — it drew 1.1 million"
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/sports....html?_r=0

You are correct if you include the playin games. From Thursday on, ratings favored bball...which is saying something considering times and dates (holiday/vacation time vs. workday mid-march). No doubt, TV is paying for Fball. BUT, this thread is about brand value. It can be established via bball and possibly, at more bang for the buck.

ETA: My nod to licensing and rights fees. There are several schools considered "bball first" being paid a bit more. IIRC, WKU and ODU have the most lucrative contracts. Saying that, I wasn't able to locate all teams when I looked at it months ago. Interesting nonetheless.

From the article:
Quote:The early afternoon window brought up the rear with a respectable 4.6, even with last year, up 12% from 2013 (4.1), and tied as the top overnight for the window on record. The window featured two #14-over-#3 upsets, Georgia State/Baylor on TBS and UAB/Iowa State on TNT, as well as Northeastern’s near-upset of Notre Dame on CBS.

Compared to:

1.6/2.25M 11:00 AM Nevada/UL-Lafayette
New Orleans Bowl ESPN
1.4/2.12M
Las Vegas Bowl ABC
1.3/1.92M
New Mexico Bowl ESPN
0.9/1.45M
Western Michigan/Air Force
Famous Idaho Potato Bowl ESPN
0.7/1.11M
So. Alabama/Bowling Green
Camellia Bowl ESPN
0.9/1.32M
BYU/Memphis
1.6/2.46M
9:30 PM Navy/San Diego State
Poinsettia Bowl ESPN
1.4/2.25M
6:00 PM Marshall/No. Illinois
Boca Raton Bowl ESPN
1.3/1.91M
Fresno State/Rice
Hawaii Bowl ESPN
1.1/1.50M
Cent. Michigan/W. Kentucky
Bahamas Bowl ESPN

The ratings don't favor bball, and it hasn't for the last 25 years.

NCAA football championship games blows the basketball championship game away every year. Take away Duke and the viewership would have been a lot lower and wouldn't even matched Football New Year's semifinal games which drew 28 million viewers just many as the bball national championship game. That's why TV pays for football, way more viewers. Follow the money, same thing I told ODUSmitty


As far as licensing fees, Yes there are a few schools that have more established basketball brand than football brand Duke, UNC, Kansas. If team can consistently make deep in the tournament such as Gongzaga, Butler, Wichita State. Then I would definitely agree more bang for the buck. But no current CUSA has done that in today's game. The schools mentioned are because WKU moved to FBS a few years ago and ODU just started a football team

OK, now we're comparing Champ games vs. champ games. FBall is supreme, no getting around it. But, NCAA rules allow non P5 to shine.
05-04-2015 06:12 PM
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Sirloin Burger Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
It isn't about past accomplishments or hall of famers. It's about name recognition. A lot of G5 schools don't get a lot of media exposure, so when you have a Top 10 Play of the Day on ESPN, you better have a school name that someone can remember. Announcers mispronounce directional schools all the time. For instances, West Kentucky as opposed to Western Kentucky. I'm just glad my team's name isn't directional or part of a university system. .
(This post was last modified: 05-05-2015 09:55 AM by Sirloin Burger.)
05-04-2015 08:31 PM
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winston70 Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Who are CUSA's greatest athletic brands?
(05-04-2015 03:13 PM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 12:02 PM)T_Won1 Wrote:  
(05-04-2015 11:48 AM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  The UNTs, Hayden Fry, ranked no. 17 in 1977, nuff said.


They have the football history over ULL.

UNT record: 424-391-31 (.52)
ULL record: 512-514-30 (.49)

Sun Belt championships: UNT 3, ULL 0

Head to Head: 9-8, UNT

Having dominated the Cajuns alone is enough to prove my point. They are legends and the rest of you guys couldn't hold their jocks.

I think Tech has faired a little bit better over the Cajuns in football than UNT 07-coffee3
05-04-2015 08:41 PM
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