(03-31-2015 02:27 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  That's when Memphis was running hot, amigo.

Memphis trending down means guys like Stokes, Skal, etc catch the train outta town.

Can't even get the Mitchell PG - that's how quick this stuff happens.

When has Tennessee every pulled more than one elite recruit a decade out of Memphis? The Tigers have had plenty of periods where they weren't that hot but even during those periods, UT has never made serious inroads. Could it happen? Of course it could. I just think there are a lot of things in play that keep Memphis kids from going east.

BTW, Memphis could currently be in the Top 10 and Skal would still have gone to UK. Kentucky is the hottest thing going right now and Calipari pretty much gets who he wants.

There has been enough discussion on how Stokes wound up at UT that it's not even worth taking time to go into again.

(03-31-2015 10:58 AM)cleveland2854 Wrote:  Great hire for TN. How often can you get a proven coach with actual mileage left on him that has been to FF's, Elite 8's, and sweet 16s? He was the big 12 coach of the year just last year. He will do well at TN. Not final fours and NC well. But, he will be in tourney and give them real shots at the sweet 16s. Hell, who wouldn't take that right now at Memphis?

Reminds me of how excited all of the Ole Miss folks were when they picked up Houston Nutt after he was fired from Arkansas a couple of years ago.

How did that one work out for the Rebels?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barn_(unit)

(03-31-2015 02:17 PM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 12:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  It's not Knoxville.

It's the bad basketball program.

"Knoxville" never hurt in football recruiting.

Tennessee was pretty good during Pearl's tenure. He still had a lot of trouble pulling kids out of Memphis.

He had trouble pulling kids out of Memphis because there was a fall-off in Memphis talent during most of his tenure (remember when JP Prince was the local stud?) When it finally came back to a high level, it was kids who wanted to be Tigers. If Pearl hadnt been fired, he would have started making inroads in this environment.

(03-31-2015 03:33 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 10:58 AM)cleveland2854 Wrote:  Great hire for TN. How often can you get a proven coach with actual mileage left on him that has been to FF's, Elite 8's, and sweet 16s? He was the big 12 coach of the year just last year. He will do well at TN. Not final fours and NC well. But, he will be in tourney and give them real shots at the sweet 16s. Hell, who wouldn't take that right now at Memphis?

Reminds me of how excited all of the Ole Miss folks were when they picked up Houston Nutt after he was fired from Arkansas a couple of years ago.

How did that one work out for the Rebels?

Two cotton bowl victories.

Bobby Knight was fired and Texas Tech got some good seasons out of it.

(03-31-2015 04:08 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 02:17 PM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 12:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  It's not Knoxville.

It's the bad basketball program.

"Knoxville" never hurt in football recruiting.

Tennessee was pretty good during Pearl's tenure. He still had a lot of trouble pulling kids out of Memphis.

He had trouble pulling kids out of Memphis because there was a fall-off in Memphis talent during most of his tenure (remember when JP Prince was the local stud?) When it finally came back to a high level, it was kids who wanted to be Tigers. If Pearl hadnt been fired, he would have started making inroads in this environment.

He had gotten to the point where Adonis, Tarik and Crawford all had UTk on their final lists. Then guys like Stokes and Nichols were considering them, too. Even Leslie McDonald.

It was an incremental step that would have likely evolved into more.

(03-31-2015 12:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  It's not Knoxville.

It's the bad basketball program.

"Knoxville" never hurt in football recruiting.

Pretty much. If a kid is good enough to play for a "Memphis", they're good enough to play most places. The kicker, though, is they're going to want to play for a team at the same level or better. That team doesn't exist in Tennessee by a long shot.....or even close by, for that matter. They're going to have to travel a bit. Something a lot of 18 year olds probably dream of doing.

(03-31-2015 04:16 PM)MuchLuck Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 12:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  It's not Knoxville.

It's the bad basketball program.

"Knoxville" never hurt in football recruiting.

Pretty much. If a kid is good enough to play for a "Memphis", they're good enough to play most places. The kicker, though, is they're going to want to play for a team at the same level or better. That team doesn't exist in Tennessee by a long shot.....or even close by, for that matter. They're going to have to travel a bit. Something a lot of 18 year olds probably dream of doing.

Ole Miss, Arky, TN, Mizzou and Vandy are good programs.

(03-31-2015 04:12 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 03:33 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 10:58 AM)cleveland2854 Wrote:  Great hire for TN. How often can you get a proven coach with actual mileage left on him that has been to FF's, Elite 8's, and sweet 16s? He was the big 12 coach of the year just last year. He will do well at TN. Not final fours and NC well. But, he will be in tourney and give them real shots at the sweet 16s. Hell, who wouldn't take that right now at Memphis?

Reminds me of how excited all of the Ole Miss folks were when they picked up Houston Nutt after he was fired from Arkansas a couple of years ago.

How did that one work out for the Rebels?

Two cotton bowl victories.

Bobby Knight was fired and Texas Tech got some good seasons out of it.

Bobby Knight > Rick Barnes.

I will admit that this is the perfect hire for Tennessee. What they need in Knoxville is stability. Barnes may not be the "wow" hire that Bruce Pearl was, but he comes with a solid reputation, and a strong resume. He's just not going to be someone that electrifies the campus the way Pearl did at UT, or Calipari did at Memphis.

(03-31-2015 04:44 PM)blue68 Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 04:16 PM)MuchLuck Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 12:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  It's not Knoxville.

It's the bad basketball program.

"Knoxville" never hurt in football recruiting.

Pretty much. If a kid is good enough to play for a "Memphis", they're good enough to play most places. The kicker, though, is they're going to want to play for a team at the same level or better. That team doesn't exist in Tennessee by a long shot.....or even close by, for that matter. They're going to have to travel a bit. Something a lot of 18 year olds probably dream of doing.

Ole Miss, Arky, TN, Mizzou and Vandy are good programs.

I guess you could say the same about East TN, Austin Peay, Middle TN, etc....

Skal recruiting had nothing to do with Pastner, memphis or negativity. It had to do with his guardian who was looking for the biggest immediate payout (..WWW..boosters..etc). If 'whoever' had a bigger payout from memphis than KY then he would have been at memphis

(03-31-2015 05:01 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 04:12 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 03:33 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 10:58 AM)cleveland2854 Wrote:  Great hire for TN. How often can you get a proven coach with actual mileage left on him that has been to FF's, Elite 8's, and sweet 16s? He was the big 12 coach of the year just last year. He will do well at TN. Not final fours and NC well. But, he will be in tourney and give them real shots at the sweet 16s. Hell, who wouldn't take that right now at Memphis?

Reminds me of how excited all of the Ole Miss folks were when they picked up Houston Nutt after he was fired from Arkansas a couple of years ago.

How did that one work out for the Rebels?

Two cotton bowl victories.

Bobby Knight was fired and Texas Tech got some good seasons out of it.

Bobby Knight > Rick Barnes.

I will admit that this is the perfect hire for Tennessee. What they need in Knoxville is stability. Barnes may not be the "wow" hire that Bruce Pearl was, but he comes with a solid reputation, and a strong resume. He's just not going to be someone that electrifies the campus the way Pearl did at UT, or Calipari did at Memphis.

Bruce Pearl wasn't a "wow" hire anymore than Stan Heath was a "wow" hire for Arkansas.

Pearl had a good run in the NCAA. UTK stumbled into a great coach.

(03-31-2015 09:27 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 09:15 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 09:12 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Just decent?

400+ career wins.

NCAA appearances at three DI programs: Providence, Clemson, Texas.

3 Sweet 16s, 2 Elite 8s, and a Final Four.

21 NCAA appearances in 28 seasons coaching, including a string of 17 straight appearances (Clemson and Texas).

Yep, just decent. How many coaches on their way down, like Barnes is, have come back to shock the college bball landscape? Tubby, Sampson, Doherty, Davis, etc.

He'll bring stability, but won't take UT to much post-season success IMO.

They need stability more than anything, so this works out.

I guess it's different degrees of "on the way down."

Most of the guys you listed were NIT bubbling while Barnes is still in and out of the Top 25 every year, making NCAAt and recruiting guys on the NBA radar.

A couple bounces here or there and they have 2 more S16's the past few years and all is ok.

But I agree that stability is most important with integrity #2. Pretty sure Barnes is seen as one of the good guys.

Hell, that sounds like Pastner which should tell us something. But the perception of Barnes is that he was vastly underperforming with the talent he had.

Barnes is a good coach, but wasn't keeping up at an elite program. He'll do well for UT, which is all they need. He won't be as impactful as Bruce Pearl, but will be better than Tyndall or Martin. Solid hire; not a "wow"hire, but solid.

(03-31-2015 12:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  It's not Knoxville.

It's the bad basketball program.

"Knoxville" never hurt in football recruiting.

Eh, Knoxville hurts recruiting in all sports. No recruiting base, gotta reach into Memphis, Atlanta, Charlotte, Virginia.

(03-31-2015 04:12 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 03:33 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 10:58 AM)cleveland2854 Wrote:  Great hire for TN. How often can you get a proven coach with actual mileage left on him that has been to FF's, Elite 8's, and sweet 16s? He was the big 12 coach of the year just last year. He will do well at TN. Not final fours and NC well. But, he will be in tourney and give them real shots at the sweet 16s. Hell, who wouldn't take that right now at Memphis?

Reminds me of how excited all of the Ole Miss folks were when they picked up Houston Nutt after he was fired from Arkansas a couple of years ago.

How did that one work out for the Rebels?

Two cotton bowl victories.

Bobby Knight was fired and Texas Tech got some good seasons out of it.

Define "good". 7 seasons with a single S16 and a conference record barely over .500? Crap for Bobby Knight, yet pretty decent for Texas Tech.

Sort of illustrates the point I tried to make earlier.

(03-31-2015 07:45 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 12:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  It's not Knoxville.

It's the bad basketball program.

"Knoxville" never hurt in football recruiting.

Eh, Knoxville hurts recruiting in all sports. No recruiting base, gotta reach into Memphis, Atlanta, Charlotte, Virginia.

You miss the point. It isn't about Knoxville's recruiting base. It's about whether or not going to Knoxville as a city is appalling to Memphis kids. As a city and as a University, UTK isn't going to be a turn-off as implied. It's the state of UTK's basketball program that was always the deterrent.

(03-31-2015 07:50 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 04:12 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 03:33 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 10:58 AM)cleveland2854 Wrote:  Great hire for TN. How often can you get a proven coach with actual mileage left on him that has been to FF's, Elite 8's, and sweet 16s? He was the big 12 coach of the year just last year. He will do well at TN. Not final fours and NC well. But, he will be in tourney and give them real shots at the sweet 16s. Hell, who wouldn't take that right now at Memphis?

Reminds me of how excited all of the Ole Miss folks were when they picked up Houston Nutt after he was fired from Arkansas a couple of years ago.

How did that one work out for the Rebels?

Two cotton bowl victories.

Bobby Knight was fired and Texas Tech got some good seasons out of it.

Define "good". 7 seasons with a single S16 and a conference record barely over .500? Crap for Bobby Knight, yet pretty decent for Texas Tech.

Sort of illustrates the point I tried to make earlier.

Good for TTU with national attention, some NCAA tourneys, a sweet 16.

For a school with few basketball aspirations, that's great.

Not good enough for Memphis fans of course.

(04-01-2015 06:25 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 07:50 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 04:12 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 03:33 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 10:58 AM)cleveland2854 Wrote:  Great hire for TN. How often can you get a proven coach with actual mileage left on him that has been to FF's, Elite 8's, and sweet 16s? He was the big 12 coach of the year just last year. He will do well at TN. Not final fours and NC well. But, he will be in tourney and give them real shots at the sweet 16s. Hell, who wouldn't take that right now at Memphis?

Reminds me of how excited all of the Ole Miss folks were when they picked up Houston Nutt after he was fired from Arkansas a couple of years ago.

How did that one work out for the Rebels?

Two cotton bowl victories.

Bobby Knight was fired and Texas Tech got some good seasons out of it.

Define "good". 7 seasons with a single S16 and a conference record barely over .500? Crap for Bobby Knight, yet pretty decent for Texas Tech.

Sort of illustrates the point I tried to make earlier.

Good for TTU with national attention, some NCAA tourneys, a sweet 16.

For a school with few basketball aspirations, that's great.

Not good enough for Memphis fans of course.

Football is King in Knoxvegas.

They went from hiring the head coach of Southern Miss to hiring the head coach of Texas with a Final Four on his resume.

Not a bad trade-off.

It does lead credence to Gary Parrish's theory that a coach should never stay longer than 10 years anywhere - in his first ten years, Barnes had a Final Four, 2 Elite 8s, and 2 Sweet 16s. The last seven years he never got to the Sweet 16 or better.

We will see if he was simply burned out, or if he's washed up.

(04-01-2015 08:28 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  They went from hiring the head coach of Southern Miss to hiring the head coach of Texas with a Final Four on his resume.

Not a bad trade-off.

It does lead credence to Gary Parrish's theory that a coach should never stay longer than 10 years anywhere - in his first ten years, Barnes had a Final Four, 2 Elite 8s, and 2 Sweet 16s. The last seven years he never got to the Sweet 16 or better.

We will see if he was simply burned out, or if he's washed up.

Like I said, they could've done a lot worse.