(03-24-2015 09:21 AM)Strat57 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:22 PM)John44932 Wrote:  I don't think the media really matters. I would guess it is money. Yeah, the boosters have lots of money, but that doesn't mean they want to spend it so carelessly. We are in a bad long term deal, and may just have to ride it out for some time.

Think back to when Cal left. We were the only team with 4 30 win seasons in a row with 1 Sweet Sixteen, 2 Elite Eights, and a runner up to National Champion. We had a loaded recruiting class coming in. I know he said money wasn't an issue, but I think we only offered to match Kentucky. If there was ever time to spend some money, then that was it.

I don't know much the boosters really care about basketball. I remember we were told about a "wow" hire. Yeah, we got Josh Pastner. I guess that is a "wow" hire.

Calipari was offered far more than Kentucky to stay. He knew the letter was going to sink him if he stayed so no amount of money could have kept thin here. he was looking for a job during the season to a point that he visited Arizona but their salary was far less so he didn't take it. Our boosters did their best to get him to stay. His response was to get us to hire Barbee.

Correct. There was more money offered to stay was my understanding, plus other perks - rumor was a spot on the FedEx board of directors. Fact is he was out of here, if not UK he would likely be at Arizona or somewhere else. The Barbee thing was laughable.

(03-24-2015 09:16 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Watching the NCAA tournament makes me realize just how far we have fallen and how far we are from competing at that level.

I 1000% agree. It's very disheartening, but at the very least, now I feel like we will only have to deal with this for 1 more year before we can get on with the business of growing the program again.

I have no doubt that the discussions happening right now are all about what expectations will have to be met next season in order to continue the relationship with JP.

With so much uncertainty re: the B12/P5 conferences, it makes sense that the boosters are going to hang onto their $$ a little while longer just in case it's needed for other things, but at the same time they won't continue to lose money hand over fist on their investment for years to come.

(03-23-2015 10:38 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 08:53 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  State fires coach prematurely in most people's eyes - he had done what he had been asked to do, except win. In a way that's similar to Josh...

So, you believe Rick Ray's 37-60 record over the past 3 years is similar to Josh's
73-29?

Now, take the first part of your sentence again; if most people believe a guy that went 37-60 in the past 3 years was fired prematurely, how idiotic is it to think the guy that just went 73-29 should be fired?

Think about it.

This should conclude any further attempts at comparing Rick Ray to Josh Pastner.

(03-24-2015 08:16 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  The OP's comparison loses validity beyond the timeframe of hiring & firing. Nothing similar about the performance of JP & the MSU coach. JP is in top 10 territory in wins for a new head coach over 6 years & the MSU coach near the bottom. I believe JP is showing his limitations as a coach which will prevent our Tigers from reaching the tourney levels we all want but comparing his status & the decisions of the Memphis Admin versus the decisions MSU made is an invalid non-starter. And to fire JP now would be very bad for the Memphis admin rep in the eyes of potential candidates & the general sports public. JP has the player tools for next year to be very good, if he fails, if folks don't buy tickets & if there aren't extenuating circumstances, then yes start lookng for a new coach.

I knew my post would go over some people's heads...

(03-24-2015 10:51 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:38 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 08:53 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  State fires coach prematurely in most people's eyes - he had done what he had been asked to do, except win. In a way that's similar to Josh...

So, you believe Rick Ray's 37-60 record over the past 3 years is similar to Josh's
73-29?

Now, take the first part of your sentence again; if most people believe a guy that went 37-60 in the past 3 years was fired prematurely, how idiotic is it to think the guy that just went 73-29 should be fired?

Think about it.

This should conclude any further attempts at comparing Rick Ray to Josh Pastner.

(03-24-2015 08:16 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  The OP's comparison loses validity beyond the timeframe of hiring & firing. Nothing similar about the performance of JP & the MSU coach. JP is in top 10 territory in wins for a new head coach over 6 years & the MSU coach near the bottom. I believe JP is showing his limitations as a coach which will prevent our Tigers from reaching the tourney levels we all want but comparing his status & the decisions of the Memphis Admin versus the decisions MSU made is an invalid non-starter. And to fire JP now would be very bad for the Memphis admin rep in the eyes of potential candidates & the general sports public. JP has the player tools for next year to be very good, if he fails, if folks don't buy tickets & if there aren't extenuating circumstances, then yes start lookng for a new coach.

I knew my post would go over some people's heads...

And you believe your narrow analogy would be considered separate from a coach's record of wins & losses? Question your own logic & intelligence regards.......

(03-24-2015 11:07 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 10:51 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:38 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 08:53 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  State fires coach prematurely in most people's eyes - he had done what he had been asked to do, except win. In a way that's similar to Josh...

So, you believe Rick Ray's 37-60 record over the past 3 years is similar to Josh's
73-29?

Now, take the first part of your sentence again; if most people believe a guy that went 37-60 in the past 3 years was fired prematurely, how idiotic is it to think the guy that just went 73-29 should be fired?

Think about it.

This should conclude any further attempts at comparing Rick Ray to Josh Pastner.

(03-24-2015 08:16 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  The OP's comparison loses validity beyond the timeframe of hiring & firing. Nothing similar about the performance of JP & the MSU coach. JP is in top 10 territory in wins for a new head coach over 6 years & the MSU coach near the bottom. I believe JP is showing his limitations as a coach which will prevent our Tigers from reaching the tourney levels we all want but comparing his status & the decisions of the Memphis Admin versus the decisions MSU made is an invalid non-starter. And to fire JP now would be very bad for the Memphis admin rep in the eyes of potential candidates & the general sports public. JP has the player tools for next year to be very good, if he fails, if folks don't buy tickets & if there aren't extenuating circumstances, then yes start lookng for a new coach.

I knew my post would go over some people's heads...

And you believe your narrow analogy would be considered separate from a coach's record of wins & losses? Question your own logic & intelligence regards.......

I think most people here understand the overarching point. I am in no way insinuating that CJP is worse than Rick Ray. Obviously the records would prove that to be incorrect.

I'm saying THE SITUATIONS are similar. Ray did what he was asked to do OFF THE COURT. Same goes for Josh. Ray didn't get the job done ON THE COURT. I think most would agree...same for Josh - though to a different degree. Memphis standards are higher than State's.

All of which was stated in the OP.

As far as how the firing of CJP would be perceived, I agreed with you - to an extent. It wouldn't be praised by all (maybe here) - but if we made a savvy hire and it worked out, no one would care. Just like 48 hours after Ray's premature firing (everyone thought he deserved & would get another year) the narrative has gone from SHAME ON YOU, to NICE HIRE.

Anything else you pulled from that is on you...

Point being - you pull the plug when you have to pull the plug, especially if it means getting the guy who would be your top target.

(03-24-2015 11:19 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Point being - you pull the plug when you have to pull the plug, especially if it means getting the guy who would be your top target.

Exactly.

(03-23-2015 10:38 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 08:53 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  State fires coach prematurely in most people's eyes - he had done what he had been asked to do, except win. In a way that's similar to Josh...

So, you believe Rick Ray's 37-60 record over the past 3 years is similar to Josh's
73-29?

Now, take the first part of your sentence again; if most people believe a guy that went 37-60 in the past 3 years was fired prematurely, how idiotic is it to think the guy that just went 73-29 should be fired?

Think about it.

This should conclude any further attempts at comparing Rick Ray to Josh Pastner.

It always come back to the inflated records with these pastner lovers. He was in C-USA it was hard to lose to teams in that conference. Anytime we play teams with equal or better talent we get exposed. See the last three NCAA tourney exits. We were not even competitive. So u can quote inflated records over outmatched C-USA teams but in the end basketball people can see we don't get better. We don't develop players. We have no system. We have no identity. We have no leader. We need someone to take over to revive this thing cause apathy has set in and the longer u keep this guy the farther u are going to fall into an afterthought. The next hire is key to the future of tiger basketball. Let's hope they make the right one and hopefully after this next season.

(03-24-2015 11:19 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Point being - you pull the plug when you have to pull the plug, especially if it means getting the guy who would be your top target.

Yup if u already know u are going to do it why wait one more year to be fair? So we are basically throwing this year away and delaying the inevitable. Maybe Marshall turns down Alabama and they come calling Pastner that would be best case scenario.

(03-24-2015 12:15 PM)jason80 Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 11:19 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Point being - you pull the plug when you have to pull the plug, especially if it means getting the guy who would be your top target.

Yup if u already know u are going to do it why wait one more year to be fair? So we are basically throwing this year away and delaying the inevitable. Maybe Marshall turns down Alabama and they come calling Pastner that would be best case scenario.

You want to know what the dumbest businessmen in the world do? You know, the ones that dont last very long in business? They kneejerk a decision to pull a plug, before they secure an alternative plan.

So the best case scenario would not be Alabama to come after pastner. If would be best for the powers that be to secure a replacement first.

Since the guys running the show arent dumb, you are not going to hear of Pastners firing until they have someone they want secured. Therefore, the worst case scenario is for Pastner to leave prior to that happening. You go from the ability to wait and secure an ideal fit, to knee-jerking and having to hire either an interim, or whoever is currently available. You do not want to put the program in a position to hire an interim or the best available.

(03-24-2015 03:38 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:15 PM)jason80 Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 11:19 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Point being - you pull the plug when you have to pull the plug, especially if it means getting the guy who would be your top target.

Yup if u already know u are going to do it why wait one more year to be fair? So we are basically throwing this year away and delaying the inevitable. Maybe Marshall turns down Alabama and they come calling Pastner that would be best case scenario.

You want to know what the dumbest businessmen in the world do? You know, the ones that dont last very long in business? They kneejerk a decision to pull a plug, before they secure an alternative plan.

So the best case scenario would not be Alabama to come after pastner. If would be best for the powers that be to secure a replacement first.

Since the guys running the show arent dumb, you are not going to hear of Pastners firing until they have someone they want secured. Therefore, the worst case scenario is for Pastner to leave prior to that happening. You go from the ability to wait and secure an ideal fit, to knee-jerking and having to hire either an interim, or whoever is currently available. You do not want to put the program in a position to hire an interim or the best available.

Kneejerk?

Reported.

(03-24-2015 12:12 PM)jason80 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:38 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 08:53 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  State fires coach prematurely in most people's eyes - he had done what he had been asked to do, except win. In a way that's similar to Josh...

So, you believe Rick Ray's 37-60 record over the past 3 years is similar to Josh's
73-29?

Now, take the first part of your sentence again; if most people believe a guy that went 37-60 in the past 3 years was fired prematurely, how idiotic is it to think the guy that just went 73-29 should be fired?

Think about it.

This should conclude any further attempts at comparing Rick Ray to Josh Pastner.

It always come back to the inflated records with these pastner lovers. He was in C-USA it was hard to lose to teams in that conference. Anytime we play teams with equal or better talent we get exposed. See the last three NCAA tourney exits. We were not even competitive. So u can quote inflated records over outmatched C-USA teams but in the end basketball people can see we don't get better. We don't develop players. We have no system. We have no identity. We have no leader. We need someone to take over to revive this thing cause apathy has set in and the longer u keep this guy the farther u are going to fall into an afterthought. The next hire is key to the future of tiger basketball. Let's hope they make the right one and hopefully after this next season.

Has nothing to do with being a "Pastner lover" which most of us aren't. Has everything to do with sports public perception & how that sports public, including potential candidates, would perceive a university who would fire a coach with JP's won-loss record. That's why our university admin will give JP at least another year, not withstanding your narrow logic to the contrary.