(02-11-2015 01:11 PM)fsquid Wrote:  damn forgot about UCLA. I know he's turned down USC, Illinois, NC State.

Yeah.

BTW, you still call him. But you expect a no.

(02-11-2015 01:15 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:11 PM)fsquid Wrote:  damn forgot about UCLA. I know he's turned down USC, Illinois, NC State.

Yeah.

BTW, you still call him. But you expect a no.

Sure - you gauge interest of the biggest names you can at first.

What you don't do is pee your slacks like RCJ did and turn to a third assistant once you hear one or two nos.

(02-11-2015 10:20 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 09:57 AM)memphis88 Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 09:52 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 09:16 AM)RCM1029 Wrote:  Seems to be a lot of conflicting information about what the powers that be have in mind. Typical. Just glad I don't know any of the powers that be.

We could win the AAC tourney and make a good run in the NCAA dance.

A few years ago UCONN was dead in the water, won the Big East tourney, and won the national championship. So you have to allow the season to play out before even thinking of making decisions of change.

You see a Kemba on our team? I sure dno't.

We had him the previous four years. He plays for Bakersfield now

Did Bakersfield get an NBA franchise?

(02-11-2015 10:54 AM)paulnatlanta Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:47 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:43 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:41 AM)paulnatlanta Wrote:  This is bad now and only going to get worse. The problem with firing Pastner is retaining the Lawsons. Those kids will scatter to the wind if their Dad isn't going to be on the Memphis bench.

I foresee very few scenarios where a new coach wouldn't retain Keelon.

Having the Lawsons onboard is a nice carrot for a prospective coach.

It might not be that easy. Keelon might have a good relationship with Pastner and not be happy being used as a carrot for a new coach.

He could probably get similar offers from a number of programs.

He didn't mind publicly stating that he would follow his kids, even though he could have accomplished the exact same thing by staying out of the media. I highly doubt he will mind.

(02-11-2015 01:17 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:15 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:11 PM)fsquid Wrote:  damn forgot about UCLA. I know he's turned down USC, Illinois, NC State.

Yeah.

BTW, you still call him. But you expect a no.

Sure - you gauge interest of the biggest names you can at first.

What you don't do is pee your slacks like RCJ did and turn to a third assistant once you hear one or two nos.

Indeed.

(02-11-2015 11:00 AM)tigergg Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:47 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:43 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:41 AM)paulnatlanta Wrote:  This is bad now and only going to get worse. The problem with firing Pastner is retaining the Lawsons. Those kids will scatter to the wind if their Dad isn't going to be on the Memphis bench.

I foresee very few scenarios where a new coach wouldn't retain Keelon.

Having the Lawsons onboard is a nice carrot for a prospective coach.

A Coach after this season would be much more inclined to come here with the pieces that are here and coming in next season.. But I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement.. A lot of players could bolt by then and he sure isn't getting any recruit worth a durn for the next class so the next Coach would have to start from scratch more than likely..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote: I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement

One by one, everyone in the "gang" that claims that Memphis is a GREAT job and ANYONE can win here except Pastner...now saying that it might be hard to find a good replacement.

IF it is as easy as you guys all say it is; great coaches should be falling all over themselves to take the job. Anyone but Pastner should be able to start from scratch and make the Sweet 16 within 3 years.

(02-11-2015 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:20 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 09:57 AM)memphis88 Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 09:52 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 09:16 AM)RCM1029 Wrote:  Seems to be a lot of conflicting information about what the powers that be have in mind. Typical. Just glad I don't know any of the powers that be.

We could win the AAC tourney and make a good run in the NCAA dance.

A few years ago UCONN was dead in the water, won the Big East tourney, and won the national championship. So you have to allow the season to play out before even thinking of making decisions of change.

You see a Kemba on our team? I sure dno't.

We had him the previous four years. He plays for Bakersfield now

Did Bakersfield get an NBA franchise?

Be nice, Joe was a great Tiger.

As Parish has said, it's hard to pull a successful coach that is well compensated away from any school. And what the fan base would want is a WOW hire, to regenerate the fan base. I'm inclined to think that Greg Marshall would be available after this season, for no other reason than Parrish revealed that on his show. And Parrish is not a stupid man, he revealed it for a reason.

The risk that the University would take is that Marshall would take the BEST available job. Would we be that? Our opinion about our programs may not line up with the National perception. But any new coach other than a proven winner, would be a roll of the dice.

I would not be opposed to a Damon Stoudimire type of hire. Especially if he would have the sense to surround himself with ex head coaches to help him out. Damon would be a bit enough name with recruits to get his foot in a lot of living rooms. To me, I think that we, the fan base, are more upset with the level of players that we have, not necessarily the coaching. How many layups' did those guys miss last night and all season long. That's the mark of weakness, and Memphis is a hardnosed town, the home of Grit and Grind, and Coach has a collection of nice boys. Had he landed Chris Jones, the toughness of the team would be completely different. We are accustomed to guys that are DOGS, and we have pups. Don't you remember Antonio Burks talking about one of our players that was considered soft, I think it was Earl Barron, playing like a dog leading up to that season. Our problem is that Coach doesn't really want the dog players as a rule, he did take G, and Dixon, but we don't have that dog in the backcourt that will say, screw this, we ain't losing to ECU, Tulsa, Tulane, etc etc,etc. That's the biggest culture change that is needed in my opinion. And maybe a new coach would realize that. We're a top 30 type of program, but not a blue blood, we have to do it a different way.

(02-11-2015 01:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 11:00 AM)tigergg Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:47 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:43 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:41 AM)paulnatlanta Wrote:  This is bad now and only going to get worse. The problem with firing Pastner is retaining the Lawsons. Those kids will scatter to the wind if their Dad isn't going to be on the Memphis bench.

I foresee very few scenarios where a new coach wouldn't retain Keelon.

Having the Lawsons onboard is a nice carrot for a prospective coach.

A Coach after this season would be much more inclined to come here with the pieces that are here and coming in next season.. But I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement.. A lot of players could bolt by then and he sure isn't getting any recruit worth a durn for the next class so the next Coach would have to start from scratch more than likely..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote: I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement

One by one, everyone in the "gang" that claims that Memphis is a GREAT job and ANYONE can win here except Pastner...now saying that it might be hard to find a good replacement.

IF it is as easy as you guys all say it is; great coaches should be falling all over themselves to take the job. Anyone but Pastner should be able to start from scratch and make the Sweet 16 within 3 years.

The question isn't "Are we guaranteed to be better without Pastner?" (we are NOT), but rather "Will Pastner meet the standard the program has set for success?"

If the answer to the second question is "No", you have to try something else, even with some risk involved. I don't think it is a slam dunk that the next guy will be better, since we do tend to downplay Pastner's actual accomplishments, but I do feel that it is time to consider the risk/reward potential of moving in a different direction.

There is no joy in this conversation for me. None what so ever :(

(02-11-2015 01:17 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:15 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:11 PM)fsquid Wrote:  damn forgot about UCLA. I know he's turned down USC, Illinois, NC State.

Yeah.

BTW, you still call him. But you expect a no.

Sure - you gauge interest of the biggest names you can at first.

What you don't do is pee your slacks like RCJ did and turn to a third assistant once you hear one or two nos.

You and RC think alike. We gauged interest from Pitino, Mike Anderson, Sean Miller, and Shaka Smart.

You don't do this at all unless you think you have a very realistic shot at landing one. The names will get out and it will be known that we whiffed on a bunch of candidates; which will make the job less attractive. Nobody wants to be 10th on the list.

(02-11-2015 01:24 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:20 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 09:57 AM)memphis88 Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 09:52 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  We could win the AAC tourney and make a good run in the NCAA dance.

A few years ago UCONN was dead in the water, won the Big East tourney, and won the national championship. So you have to allow the season to play out before even thinking of making decisions of change.

You see a Kemba on our team? I sure dno't.

We had him the previous four years. He plays for Bakersfield now

Did Bakersfield get an NBA franchise?

Be nice, Joe was a great Tiger.

He was a great Tiger. According to Bluto, Black had a great attitude, Self got him to the NBA and JJ is on par with Walker, who is averaging 19 points per game in the NBA.

Just trying to infuse a tiny sliver of reality into Bluto's brain.

(02-11-2015 01:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 11:00 AM)tigergg Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:47 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:43 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:41 AM)paulnatlanta Wrote:  This is bad now and only going to get worse. The problem with firing Pastner is retaining the Lawsons. Those kids will scatter to the wind if their Dad isn't going to be on the Memphis bench.

I foresee very few scenarios where a new coach wouldn't retain Keelon.

Having the Lawsons onboard is a nice carrot for a prospective coach.

A Coach after this season would be much more inclined to come here with the pieces that are here and coming in next season.. But I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement.. A lot of players could bolt by then and he sure isn't getting any recruit worth a durn for the next class so the next Coach would have to start from scratch more than likely..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote: I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement

One by one, everyone in the "gang" that claims that Memphis is a GREAT job and ANYONE can win here except Pastner...now saying that it might be hard to find a good replacement.

IF it is as easy as you guys all say it is; great coaches should be falling all over themselves to take the job. Anyone but Pastner should be able to start from scratch and make the Sweet 16 within 3 years.

Maybe not within 3 years. Definitely within 6 years.

(02-11-2015 01:28 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 11:00 AM)tigergg Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:47 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:43 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I foresee very few scenarios where a new coach wouldn't retain Keelon.

Having the Lawsons onboard is a nice carrot for a prospective coach.

A Coach after this season would be much more inclined to come here with the pieces that are here and coming in next season.. But I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement.. A lot of players could bolt by then and he sure isn't getting any recruit worth a durn for the next class so the next Coach would have to start from scratch more than likely..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote: I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement

One by one, everyone in the "gang" that claims that Memphis is a GREAT job and ANYONE can win here except Pastner...now saying that it might be hard to find a good replacement.

IF it is as easy as you guys all say it is; great coaches should be falling all over themselves to take the job. Anyone but Pastner should be able to start from scratch and make the Sweet 16 within 3 years.

The question isn't "Are we guaranteed to be better without Pastner?" (we are NOT), but rather "Will Pastner meet the standard the program has set for success?"

If the answer to the second question is "No", you have to try something else, even with some risk involved. I don't think it is a slam dunk that the next guy will be better, since we do tend to downplay Pastner's actual accomplishments, but I do feel that it is time to consider the risk/reward potential of moving in a different direction.

There is no joy in this conversation for me. None what so ever :(

Same here and I also probably agree that it is time to try.

(02-11-2015 01:27 PM)truest blue tiger Wrote:  Our problem is that Coach doesn't really want the dog players as a rule, he did take G, and Dixon, but we don't have that dog in the backcourt that will say, screw this, we ain't losing to ECU, Tulsa, Tulane, etc etc,etc. That's the biggest culture change that is needed in my opinion.

Memphis isn't pretty historically, it's raw. The best Tigers teams always played with a sense of menace. Our current team is filled with great guys, but you need some rough and tumble types as well. Besides Geron, that has been lacking recently...

Funny part is the whole roster doesn't have to be that way. You just need a few. Having Joey Dorsey and Antonio Anderson provided the backbone for the '08 team allowing CDR/Rose to do what they do.

Need a mix of good guys, skill, and muscle. It takes all kinds.

I wish someone would explain that to Pastner. Bigger issue than X/O is roster construction in my opinion. He gets skilled good guys and that is great for most of the roster, but where is our Charles Oakley type?

(02-11-2015 01:28 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 11:00 AM)tigergg Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:47 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:43 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I foresee very few scenarios where a new coach wouldn't retain Keelon.

Having the Lawsons onboard is a nice carrot for a prospective coach.

A Coach after this season would be much more inclined to come here with the pieces that are here and coming in next season.. But I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement.. A lot of players could bolt by then and he sure isn't getting any recruit worth a durn for the next class so the next Coach would have to start from scratch more than likely..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote: I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement

One by one, everyone in the "gang" that claims that Memphis is a GREAT job and ANYONE can win here except Pastner...now saying that it might be hard to find a good replacement.

IF it is as easy as you guys all say it is; great coaches should be falling all over themselves to take the job. Anyone but Pastner should be able to start from scratch and make the Sweet 16 within 3 years.

The question isn't "Are we guaranteed to be better without Pastner?" (we are NOT), but rather "Will Pastner meet the standard the program has set for success?"

If the answer to the second question is "No", you have to try something else, even with some risk involved. I don't think it is a slam dunk that the next guy will be better, since we do tend to downplay Pastner's actual accomplishments, but I do feel that it is time to consider the risk/reward potential of moving in a different direction.

There is no joy in this conversation for me. None what so ever :(

I completely agree with this assessment and said something similar in another thread ("Thinking Out Loud"). The question is can Pastner meet the program's standard for success? I think we all agree that the standard is a S16 run every five or six years and/or stronger performances against ranked opponents in the nationally marquee games.

To your point, I agree that Pastner's accomplishments have been downplayed. He's not garbage as some seem to think. Memphis can do worse. But, he also doesn't meet the standard of success at Memphis. So you can't blame fans for wanting to try to find someone who can.

(02-11-2015 01:32 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:28 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:24 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 11:00 AM)tigergg Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:47 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  Having the Lawsons onboard is a nice carrot for a prospective coach.

A Coach after this season would be much more inclined to come here with the pieces that are here and coming in next season.. But I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement.. A lot of players could bolt by then and he sure isn't getting any recruit worth a durn for the next class so the next Coach would have to start from scratch more than likely..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote: I'm afraid that if they wait another season they will be hard pressed to find a decent replacement

One by one, everyone in the "gang" that claims that Memphis is a GREAT job and ANYONE can win here except Pastner...now saying that it might be hard to find a good replacement.

IF it is as easy as you guys all say it is; great coaches should be falling all over themselves to take the job. Anyone but Pastner should be able to start from scratch and make the Sweet 16 within 3 years.

The question isn't "Are we guaranteed to be better without Pastner?" (we are NOT), but rather "Will Pastner meet the standard the program has set for success?"

If the answer to the second question is "No", you have to try something else, even with some risk involved. I don't think it is a slam dunk that the next guy will be better, since we do tend to downplay Pastner's actual accomplishments, but I do feel that it is time to consider the risk/reward potential of moving in a different direction.

There is no joy in this conversation for me. None what so ever :(

Same here and I also probably agree that it is time to try.

Yeah.

I really, really, really hope that this doesn't ruin Pastner's career long term if/when it happens. I still thinl he's going to be a really good HC in time. I hope he gets the next shot and applies lessons learned to achieve the promise he so clearly has...

Very little besides a Memphis title would make me happier than eventual full success for Josh Pastner. It's impossible not to root for him, but not at the expense of the program's long term health.

(02-11-2015 01:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:24 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:20 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 09:57 AM)memphis88 Wrote:  You see a Kemba on our team? I sure dno't.

We had him the previous four years. He plays for Bakersfield now

Did Bakersfield get an NBA franchise?

Be nice, Joe was a great Tiger.

He was a great Tiger. According to Bluto, Black had a great attitude, Self got him to the NBA and JJ is on par with Walker, who is averaging 19 points per game in the NBA.

Just trying to infuse a tiny sliver of reality into Bluto's brain.

Perhaps if Joe had been developed...

(02-11-2015 01:44 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:24 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:20 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  We had him the previous four years. He plays for Bakersfield now

Did Bakersfield get an NBA franchise?

Be nice, Joe was a great Tiger.

He was a great Tiger. According to Bluto, Black had a great attitude, Self got him to the NBA and JJ is on par with Walker, who is averaging 19 points per game in the NBA.

Just trying to infuse a tiny sliver of reality into Bluto's brain.

Perhaps if Joe had been developed...

We have posters that are clouded by so much hate, that it completely robs them of their ability to think rationally.

By any measure known to man, JJ made huge improvements in his floor game over the course of his career. For starters; his assist to turnover ratio went from less than 1/1 to better than 2/1. The only thing that held JJ back from having a near All America season, was that his outside shooting touch inexplicably left him.

If he shoots 48% from 3 last year, he probably averages 17 points per game, and opens everything else up for our offense; especially inside. His level of play was night and day from his freshman season.

(02-11-2015 01:44 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:31 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:24 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 10:20 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  We had him the previous four years. He plays for Bakersfield now

Did Bakersfield get an NBA franchise?

Be nice, Joe was a great Tiger.

He was a great Tiger. According to Bluto, Black had a great attitude, Self got him to the NBA and JJ is on par with Walker, who is averaging 19 points per game in the NBA.

Just trying to infuse a tiny sliver of reality into Bluto's brain.

Perhaps if Joe had been developed...

Joe averaged about 1150 minutes his Jr. and Sr. years. He played 765 and 914 his frosh and soph years.

Considering Joe should have been getting about 1,000 minutes each in his frosh and soph years, Pastner (by benching Joe) stunted his development by about 330 minutes, or about 11 games, which is a third of a regular season.

Just think about that. Joe lost about one-third of an entire season's worth of experience (more if you give him the same minutes as Will) in his first two seasons because of Pastner's refusal to let him get run. Will Barton played 2,306 (1,070 and 1,236) minutes his two years. Joe played 1,679--621 fewer than Will (or the equivalent of about 21 games).

Quote:'m inclined to think that Greg Marshall would be available after this season, for no other reason than Parrish revealed that on his show. And Parrish is not a stupid man, he revealed it for a reason.

Of course he did, Parrish loves him some Forbes.