The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(11-16-2014 10:06 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(11-16-2014 09:52 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(11-16-2014 09:35 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-16-2014 09:21 AM)EA3 Wrote:  You want to wager on either of them getting to 7 wins next year? 6?

I don't see it happening for either.

You maybe right, but -

None of the Fleck fans here thought HE would do a Darnell/Cubit-type turnaround this year, either. Even most optimistic predictions were for around four wins.

No they didn't, they were hedging against the four gimmies and the chance at stealing two this season. Weren't at all hopeful.

I expect both EMU and Miami to be much better next year, and in the years to come. Miami gets "that schedule" next year, it could show in "W's" there first but both will make strides.

Martin has had success and seen it first hand. He even saw it across the field playing WMU. Maybe he'll go get a stud RB, an awesome WR ah la Rutgers style, and light the world on fire. It's a proven formula to pull a team out of the basement, regardless of how you got there.

Miami, likely. EMU, not likely.

I wouldn't bet against either. I'm sure people said that last year when they saw our team visiting, right?

There's an old saying used in the coaching fraternity:

"Once is a fluke. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is a trend."

Point is building something that lasts, that has staying power, is not easy and takes more than one or two good seasons.

Even more difficult in MAC because of parity and coaching turnover (including assistants).

That's one reason why most MAC headers who experience any success move up quickly. Those who don't and stay eventually get fired.

Have only to look at our own coaching history to see validity of latter.

(11-16-2014 10:13 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  There's an old saying used in the coaching fraternity:

"Once is a fluke. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is a trend."

Point is building something that lasts, that has staying power, is not easy and takes more than one or two good seasons.

Even more difficult in MAC because of parity and coaching turnover (including assistants).

That's one reason why most MAC headers who experience any success move up quickly. Those who don't and stay eventually get fired.

Have only to look at our own coaching history to see validity of latter.

Agree, not an easy gig, and loyalty doesn't get rewarded for enduring the lay of the land either, Toledo Tom comes to mind, although I know there were other issues. The shelf life of a MAC Header is a short one, anyone who tries to make it last is setting themselves up for a bad ending IMHO.

That's why I think the talk of getting anyone who is successful to stay is flat out delusional. Not much upside to that decision tree for the coach.

I see Miami being a force down the road, but not EMU.

Martin is recruiting well and having them play much better than they were last year.

Creighton is not recruiting well and they're playing worse than they were last year. They almost look like they've quit on him.

I don't really care about either situation to be honest. I care about us. And right now, I'm very happy with where we are at.

Well, you should put us on ignore because we might just discuss this for a while HJ. We seem to have some interest even if you don't. Comprende`?

(11-16-2014 09:21 AM)EA3 Wrote:  You want to wager on either of them getting to 7 wins next year? 6? I don't see it happening for either.

2015 non-conference schedules:

Miami: Presbyterian, at Wisconsin, Cincinnati, @ Western Kentucky
Most likely 1-3; outside chance at 2-2

EMU: Old Dominion, at Wyoming, Army, @ LSU
This is a brutal nonconference schedule for EMU with four FBS opponents. Maybe they stumble onto a win; most likely 0-4

Being in the far weaker MAC East, I think Miami has a chance to hit six wins next year. I don't see any way EMU comes anywhere close to that.

(11-16-2014 09:46 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(11-16-2014 09:43 AM)EA3 Wrote:  They also lose their QB transfer from Notre Dame. I wouldn't bet on it. It's unlikely IMO.

I can't confirm nor deny where I heard this, or have any firsthand knowledge of the people who wrote the past record books, but winning six or seven in your first or second season isn't unheard of in the MAC. We've had a number of coaches who have done that here.

But let's not act like it's a foregone conclusion, I think that's bad form and reflects negatively on our fan base, makes us almost "chimp like".

The problem with being too critical of the Chimps and being "chimp like" is that they've won a ton a MAC championships, WMU, not so much.

(11-16-2014 10:08 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(11-16-2014 10:06 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(11-16-2014 09:52 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(11-16-2014 09:35 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-16-2014 09:21 AM)EA3 Wrote:  You want to wager on either of them getting to 7 wins next year? 6?

I don't see it happening for either.

You maybe right, but -

None of the Fleck fans here thought HE would do a Darnell/Cubit-type turnaround this year, either. Even most optimistic predictions were for around four wins.

No they didn't, they were hedging against the four gimmies and the chance at stealing two this season. Weren't at all hopeful.

I expect both EMU and Miami to be much better next year, and in the years to come. Miami gets "that schedule" next year, it could show in "W's" there first but both will make strides.

Martin has had success and seen it first hand. He even saw it across the field playing WMU. Maybe he'll go get a stud RB, an awesome WR ah la Rutgers style, and light the world on fire. It's a proven formula to pull a team out of the basement, regardless of how you got there.

Miami, likely. EMU, not likely.

I wouldn't bet against either. I'm sure people said that last year when they saw our team visiting, right?

EMU's situation is almost untenable, it's in a run down, crime ridden community, saddled with a perpetually bad economy in the shadows of UM. Look at it this way: put WMU in Battle Creek and UM in Kalamazoo., it'd be hell.

EMU may occasionally put together a decent team, everyone does, but you really can't compare WMU's overall situation to that of EMU. And you can't compare EMU to Miami, which is a tradition rich school on a beautiful campus that is academically renowned. Plus Miami is in the weaker east? EMU is just in a tough situation in a variety of ways. Let's talk when Creighton puts together an all-time recruiting class. I'm doubtful.

Let's talk if he wins, great recruiting class notwithstanding.

(11-17-2014 08:27 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Let's talk if he wins, great recruiting class notwithstanding.

Of course. Bottom line always.

Dear Broncos,
Next years out of conference schedule is not brutal. Both Old Dominion and Wyoming have losing seasons this year, and Old Dominion is losing their quarterback. Army is Army. They may beat us, and we may beat them. Louisiana State is the probable loss.
Eastern could have a real gem in Reggie Bell. If, he develops like we all hope, he could be a real threat for coming seasons.
As far as recruiting goes we have several three star recruits, and even not having the best recruiting class in the MAC, we should do okay this year. It really depends on how any recruit is developed beyond their skill set.
We just hope Eastern is competitive next year with our in-State rivals.

(11-17-2014 09:25 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Broncos,
Next years out of conference schedule is not brutal. Both Old Dominion and Wyoming have losing seasons this year, and Old Dominion is losing their quarterback. Army is Army. They may beat us, and we may beat them. Louisiana State is the probable loss.
Eastern could have a real gem in Reggie Bell. If, he develops like we all hope, he could be a real threat for coming seasons.
As far as recruiting goes we have several three star recruits, and even not having the best recruiting class in the MAC, we should do okay this year. It really depends on how any recruit is developed beyond their skill set.
We just hope Eastern is competitive next year with our in-State rivals.

Bell could be a building block for you if developed correctly. EMU hasn't really had an identity since genyk and a dual threat qb spread offense could be something to work with

I see both EMU and Miami(OH) getting better... However it appears that Miami(oh) is losing with much better regard for discipline... and basically just getting outworked due to missing pieces all over the field. EMU... they just looked aweful... they played with very little discipline (at least what I saw in the WMU game). When you are outmatched in talent, you have to be better with regard to things you CAN control... and discipline is one of those areas...

That alone gives me a feel that Martin is going to outpace Creighton down teh stretch if we are comparing the upsides.

(11-17-2014 09:39 AM)Ubish Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 09:25 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Broncos,
Next years out of conference schedule is not brutal. Both Old Dominion and Wyoming have losing seasons this year, and Old Dominion is losing their quarterback. Army is Army. They may beat us, and we may beat them. Louisiana State is the probable loss.
Eastern could have a real gem in Reggie Bell. If, he develops like we all hope, he could be a real threat for coming seasons.
As far as recruiting goes we have several three star recruits, and even not having the best recruiting class in the MAC, we should do okay this year. It really depends on how any recruit is developed beyond their skill set.
We just hope Eastern is competitive next year with our in-State rivals.

Bell could be a building block for you if developed correctly. EMU hasn't really had an identity since genyk and a dual threat qb spread offense could be something to work with

Dear Ken,

As much as a work at being a horses azz and piling on the EMU faithful, Saturday was just brutal. I had to stop watching it. Maybe that gagle of transfers that Murphy brought in can make you forget about these last two games.

As much as a dog you EMU guys a admire your loyalty and would take you over any scUM fan alive.

I don't know who started this thread but the mod should tar and feather him.

(11-17-2014 09:25 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Broncos,
Next years out of conference schedule is not brutal. Both Old Dominion and Wyoming have losing seasons this year, and Old Dominion is losing their quarterback. Army is Army. They may beat us, and we may beat them. Louisiana State is the probable loss.
Eastern could have a real gem in Reggie Bell. If, he develops like we all hope, he could be a real threat for coming seasons.
As far as recruiting goes we have several three star recruits, and even not having the best recruiting class in the MAC, we should do okay this year. It really depends on how any recruit is developed beyond their skill set.
We just hope Eastern is competitive next year with our in-State rivals.

I like EMU, you're campus is underrated, and I hope I'm off target and you do well, good luck.

I saw the guy holding that giant pipe wrench on the sideline letting it rest at his feet multiple times. That is not good discipline IMO. I thought the point was that it needed to be held up at all times.

But seriously, it's hard to guage what direction EMU is heading with Creighton right now just like it was last year with Fleck. I noticed EMU's sidelines were pretty thin. I wonder if Creighton is cleaning house like Fleck did, because it sure seemed like they were pretty thin depth-wise.

Bell can be a good piece for them, and I actually thought he made some good throws at times. But the problem is that he just has no protection, and nobody to throw the ball to besides that tight end (who has a real shot at the NFL IMO).

Creighton has been recruiting just okay... nothing off the charts. Middle of the pack to lower third. I'll give him another 2 years until I make my final judgement on him.

It's very easy to see the potential at Miami right now because he's got a rag-tag team playing very competitively over there in Oxford, he's building a nice recruiting class, and he definitely knows how to coach.

My gut tells me Creighton isn't going to be successful, but he might eventually get them to bowl eligibility at best... who knows.

EMU is like going all in in poker.

A coach takes that job knowing if he can turn it around he will get serious looks, and if not he'll never be a head coach again. It's a risky job to take because it may be the hardest rebuilding job in football.

Quote:But seriously, it's hard to gauge what direction EMU is heading with Creighton right now just like it was last year with Fleck.

EMU is nothing like WMU, no it is not just like Fleck last year for a ton of reasons, none of which have anything to do with the competence or skills of the coaches or administration at EMU.

Just remember too that Creighton's experience has come at small programs (D III and NAIA). Yeah, his last stop, Drake, is classified D1, but they give no football scholarships, meaning its not really D1 and they likely would not beat most D II or NAIA schools who give 54 or so schollys.

Not only is there the UM shadow hanging over EMU, but their football tradition is awful. I looked at their webpage, which only goes back to 1999, not a single winning season in 15 years, not one. OUCH.

Plus, of any school in the MAC the surrounding community of YPSI is the least welcoming and least attractive. I'd like to be wrong and wish him and EMU all the luck in the world, but wow......tough row to hoe.

Not everyone can have a foundation of awesome and great history of success like the WMU Athletic Department. Please. Listen to yourself. You sound like....

(11-17-2014 01:56 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Not everyone can have a foundation of awesome and great history of success like the WMU Athletic Department. Please. Listen to yourself. You sound like....

look at their track record. No winning record going back to 99, facts are facts. Moreover, WMU has underachieved. Notice, I was very careful not to criticize EMU, good folks, bad situation.