(10-31-2014 01:47 PM)cmt Wrote:  Say what you want about message board coaches and talent evaluators, but I can tell you this…
If you spend your whole life watching basketball as a fan and not a coach, scout, etc, it has become very obvious to me that you see things quite a bit differently than when you are submerged in the sport like coaches and scouts are.

Let's go through the list of sure fire college stars and NBA players, some even lottery picks (so said the scouts and coaches)
Joe Jackson
Adonis Thomas
Tarik Black
Dejuan Wagner
Sean Banks
Darius Washington
Paris London
Duece Ford
and on and on, and thats just here at home. The first time you saw Durant play at Texas, you just knew. There are guys who are just stars and then there are guys who find there niche. But there are a lot of guys the experts say are stars that just flat out aren't.

From a distance you could see right away that Haraway had it and Wagner didn't, even if he was the Messiah
From a distance you can see that Joe Jackson was way too small and weak to ever hold his own with the big boys even in college, let alone the NBA
From a distance it was obvious Will Barton and Rose and Tyreke could play and Adonis Thomas could not.

So say what you want, but waaaay more often than you would think, the so-called experts can't see the forest for the trees. All the drills and practice squads and high school dunks and AAU circuses can't take the place of getting out there with the TV cameras rolling, 20,000 people in the stands and everyone is hanging on your performance.

You proved my point. Why do we need coaches when we have all these expert coaches on this board. I would love to you see what you could do we our team. Plus why don't you become a volunteer recruiter for the tigers. It seems that you think you have all the answers.

(10-31-2014 01:47 PM)cmt Wrote:  Say what you want about message board coaches and talent evaluators, but I can tell you this…
If you spend your whole life watching basketball as a fan and not a coach, scout, etc, it has become very obvious to me that you see things quite a bit differently than when you are submerged in the sport like coaches and scouts are.

Let's go through the list of sure fire college stars and NBA players, some even lottery picks (so said the scouts and coaches)
Joe Jackson
Adonis Thomas
Tarik Black
Dejuan Wagner
Sean Banks
Darius Washington
Paris London
Duece Ford
and on and on, and thats just here at home. The first time you saw Durant play at Texas, you just knew. There are guys who are just stars and then there are guys who find there niche. But there are a lot of guys the experts say are stars that just flat out aren't.

From a distance you could see right away that Haraway had it and Wagner didn't, even if he was the Messiah
From a distance you can see that Joe Jackson was way too small and weak to ever hold his own with the big boys even in college, let alone the NBA
From a distance it was obvious Will Barton and Rose and Tyreke could play and Adonis Thomas could not.

So say what you want, but waaaay more often than you would think, the so-called experts can't see the forest for the trees. All the drills and practice squads and high school dunks and AAU circuses can't take the place of getting out there with the TV cameras rolling, 20,000 people in the stands and everyone is hanging on your performance.

Wagner was a player...Much better than Barton without question.

(10-31-2014 02:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:47 PM)cmt Wrote:  Say what you want about message board coaches and talent evaluators, but I can tell you this…
If you spend your whole life watching basketball as a fan and not a coach, scout, etc, it has become very obvious to me that you see things quite a bit differently than when you are submerged in the sport like coaches and scouts are.

Let's go through the list of sure fire college stars and NBA players, some even lottery picks (so said the scouts and coaches)
Joe Jackson
Adonis Thomas
Tarik Black
Dejuan Wagner
Sean Banks
Darius Washington
Paris London
Duece Ford
and on and on, and thats just here at home. The first time you saw Durant play at Texas, you just knew. There are guys who are just stars and then there are guys who find there niche. But there are a lot of guys the experts say are stars that just flat out aren't.

From a distance you could see right away that Haraway had it and Wagner didn't, even if he was the Messiah
From a distance you can see that Joe Jackson was way too small and weak to ever hold his own with the big boys even in college, let alone the NBA
From a distance it was obvious Will Barton and Rose and Tyreke could play and Adonis Thomas could not.

So say what you want, but waaaay more often than you would think, the so-called experts can't see the forest for the trees. All the drills and practice squads and high school dunks and AAU circuses can't take the place of getting out there with the TV cameras rolling, 20,000 people in the stands and everyone is hanging on your performance.

Wagner was a player...Much better than Barton without question.

Not in Will's second year. Not "much" better, if any.

(10-31-2014 02:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:47 PM)cmt Wrote:  Say what you want about message board coaches and talent evaluators, but I can tell you this…
If you spend your whole life watching basketball as a fan and not a coach, scout, etc, it has become very obvious to me that you see things quite a bit differently than when you are submerged in the sport like coaches and scouts are.

Let's go through the list of sure fire college stars and NBA players, some even lottery picks (so said the scouts and coaches)
Joe Jackson
Adonis Thomas
Tarik Black
Dejuan Wagner
Sean Banks
Darius Washington
Paris London
Duece Ford
and on and on, and thats just here at home. The first time you saw Durant play at Texas, you just knew. There are guys who are just stars and then there are guys who find there niche. But there are a lot of guys the experts say are stars that just flat out aren't.

From a distance you could see right away that Haraway had it and Wagner didn't, even if he was the Messiah
From a distance you can see that Joe Jackson was way too small and weak to ever hold his own with the big boys even in college, let alone the NBA
From a distance it was obvious Will Barton and Rose and Tyreke could play and Adonis Thomas could not.

So say what you want, but waaaay more often than you would think, the so-called experts can't see the forest for the trees. All the drills and practice squads and high school dunks and AAU circuses can't take the place of getting out there with the TV cameras rolling, 20,000 people in the stands and everyone is hanging on your performance.

Wagner was a player...Much better than Barton without question.

Barton was a GREAT D1 player his sophomore year; much better than Wagner.

If Iverson is talented enough to play he will play. There doesn't need to be any speculation about it.

(10-31-2014 02:35 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:47 PM)cmt Wrote:  Say what you want about message board coaches and talent evaluators, but I can tell you this…
If you spend your whole life watching basketball as a fan and not a coach, scout, etc, it has become very obvious to me that you see things quite a bit differently than when you are submerged in the sport like coaches and scouts are.

Let's go through the list of sure fire college stars and NBA players, some even lottery picks (so said the scouts and coaches)
Joe Jackson
Adonis Thomas
Tarik Black
Dejuan Wagner
Sean Banks
Darius Washington
Paris London
Duece Ford
and on and on, and thats just here at home. The first time you saw Durant play at Texas, you just knew. There are guys who are just stars and then there are guys who find there niche. But there are a lot of guys the experts say are stars that just flat out aren't.

From a distance you could see right away that Haraway had it and Wagner didn't, even if he was the Messiah
From a distance you can see that Joe Jackson was way too small and weak to ever hold his own with the big boys even in college, let alone the NBA
From a distance it was obvious Will Barton and Rose and Tyreke could play and Adonis Thomas could not.

So say what you want, but waaaay more often than you would think, the so-called experts can't see the forest for the trees. All the drills and practice squads and high school dunks and AAU circuses can't take the place of getting out there with the TV cameras rolling, 20,000 people in the stands and everyone is hanging on your performance.

Wagner was a player...Much better than Barton without question.

Barton was a GREAT D1 player his sophomore year; much better than Wagner.

I'm not too sure about that, and Wagner left after his freshman year as a lottery pick

(10-31-2014 12:06 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 11:46 AM)holyterror Wrote:  I see it the same way, Hometown. Kuran could be a 12 and 6 PF in CUSA. He's got an uphill battle getting on the floor for us this season, at least, and probably next season, as well.

He's the kid of guy (think Roger Flowers) that places like USM have relied heavily on, and been good for.

I think he has a great shot at seeing the floor. Shaq, Austin and Godfrey will split 75 minutes per game at the 4/5. That will leave 15 minutes for Iverson, King and Hawkins. Iverson, King, Burrell and Hawkins will split minutes at the 3.

If the players split the minutes evenly, that will leave 15 minutes apiece for Iverson and King. If Iverson and King went through growing pains as freshmen; I fully expect the same to happen with Hawkins and Burrell. I would think that there will be 20 minutes per game available to both Iverson and King.

Maybe I'm dense or showing my age but can't get this 90 minute game wrapped around my head. How can you split 75 minutes PER GAME with 15 left over in a 40 minute game? Since you didn't say anything about sharing some of those minutes it's thrown me into a brain cramp. Straighten me out Stammers and you have my permission to call me a dumb a..! I agree with your point BTW.

(10-31-2014 03:02 PM)Antonio5fan Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 12:06 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 11:46 AM)holyterror Wrote:  I see it the same way, Hometown. Kuran could be a 12 and 6 PF in CUSA. He's got an uphill battle getting on the floor for us this season, at least, and probably next season, as well.

He's the kid of guy (think Roger Flowers) that places like USM have relied heavily on, and been good for.

I think he has a great shot at seeing the floor. Shaq, Austin and Godfrey will split 75 minutes per game at the 4/5. That will leave 15 minutes for Iverson, King and Hawkins. Iverson, King, Burrell and Hawkins will split minutes at the 3.

If the players split the minutes evenly, that will leave 15 minutes apiece for Iverson and King. If Iverson and King went through growing pains as freshmen; I fully expect the same to happen with Hawkins and Burrell. I would think that there will be 20 minutes per game available to both Iverson and King.

Maybe I'm dense or showing my age but can't get this 90 minute game wrapped around my head. How can you split 75 minutes PER GAME with 15 left over in a 40 minute game? Since you didn't say anything about sharing some of those minutes it's thrown me into a brain cramp. Straighten me out Stammers and you have my permission to call me a dumb a..! I agree with your point BTW.

Oops. I got caught up in Shaq and Nichols getting 25 minutes each and Godfrey getting 15 and screwed up the math. Thank you for pointing that out. I did luck out and guess that there are 40 minutes available at the 3.

(10-31-2014 02:57 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:35 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:47 PM)cmt Wrote:  Say what you want about message board coaches and talent evaluators, but I can tell you this…
If you spend your whole life watching basketball as a fan and not a coach, scout, etc, it has become very obvious to me that you see things quite a bit differently than when you are submerged in the sport like coaches and scouts are.

Let's go through the list of sure fire college stars and NBA players, some even lottery picks (so said the scouts and coaches)
Joe Jackson
Adonis Thomas
Tarik Black
Dejuan Wagner
Sean Banks
Darius Washington
Paris London
Duece Ford
and on and on, and thats just here at home. The first time you saw Durant play at Texas, you just knew. There are guys who are just stars and then there are guys who find there niche. But there are a lot of guys the experts say are stars that just flat out aren't.

From a distance you could see right away that Haraway had it and Wagner didn't, even if he was the Messiah
From a distance you can see that Joe Jackson was way too small and weak to ever hold his own with the big boys even in college, let alone the NBA
From a distance it was obvious Will Barton and Rose and Tyreke could play and Adonis Thomas could not.

So say what you want, but waaaay more often than you would think, the so-called experts can't see the forest for the trees. All the drills and practice squads and high school dunks and AAU circuses can't take the place of getting out there with the TV cameras rolling, 20,000 people in the stands and everyone is hanging on your performance.

Wagner was a player...Much better than Barton without question.

Barton was a GREAT D1 player his sophomore year; much better than Wagner.

I'm not too sure about that, and Wagner left after his freshman year as a lottery pick

Wagner
21.2 ppg
41.0 fg%
31.7 3pt%
72.2 ft%
2.5 reb
3.6 apg
2.9 to
1.2 st

Barton
18.0 ppg
50.9 fg%
34.6 3pt%
74.9 ft%
8.0 reb
2.9 apg
2.1 to
1.4 st

Better across the board IMO.

(10-31-2014 01:46 PM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:20 PM)Rob Wrote:  I've been down on him from day 1 because of his age. If he had come in as a 17 year old and been as raw as he is I would have seen things differently but he came in at 20 years old and looked completely lost. There isn't a long list of guys who fit his profile that suddenly become awesome. I've said all along that I hope to be as wrong as I can be but I still don't expect he'll ever put it all together. He does look very talented in spurts, though.

If you disagree, let's hear it.

(10-31-2014 03:43 PM)Rob Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:46 PM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:20 PM)Rob Wrote:  I've been down on him from day 1 because of his age. If he had come in as a 17 year old and been as raw as he is I would have seen things differently but he came in at 20 years old and looked completely lost. There isn't a long list of guys who fit his profile that suddenly become awesome. I've said all along that I hope to be as wrong as I can be but I still don't expect he'll ever put it all together. He does look very talented in spurts, though.

If you disagree, let's hear it.

Some internet guy decided that he was going to be "down" on a Memphis Tiger before he even set foot on campus is hilarious in a pathetic way. I doubt that anyone agrees with you.

Quote:There isn't a long list of guys who fit his profile that suddenly become awesome

D1 players who don't perform at a high level and make huge improvements their second season is actually the standard. You are laughably out of touch with reality when you make a statement like this.

Check out Deandre Daniels' profile and let us know what you think.

(10-31-2014 12:59 PM)2tigers Wrote:  I love all the expert coaches we have on this board. They know everything that needs to be done without seeing them practice. I don't know why we even have paid coaches. We have hundreds of them on this board and they are free. Like my dad always said you don't get nothing worth anything for free.

I am simply “thinking out loud” and wanted put this out there for discussion.

Pathetic? Did I run over a baby or something? It's an opinion on a basketball player, which has so far been right. I even made sure to add that I'd like to be wrong so people like you wouldn't get your feelings hurt. Of course second year guys make a leap but you ignore the core of my argument, his age. You constantly drag down the level of decorum of this board with your pettiness. Your only apparent interest is to take shots at everyone with whom you disagree, not discuss Tiger related ideas with any civility. There's no mystery as to why you are regularly banned. It's Friday, go have a beer and relax.

This board seems less friendly the last week or so, I wonder what could have changed?

(10-31-2014 03:28 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:57 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:35 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 01:47 PM)cmt Wrote:  Say what you want about message board coaches and talent evaluators, but I can tell you this…
If you spend your whole life watching basketball as a fan and not a coach, scout, etc, it has become very obvious to me that you see things quite a bit differently than when you are submerged in the sport like coaches and scouts are.

Let's go through the list of sure fire college stars and NBA players, some even lottery picks (so said the scouts and coaches)
Joe Jackson
Adonis Thomas
Tarik Black
Dejuan Wagner
Sean Banks
Darius Washington
Paris London
Duece Ford
and on and on, and thats just here at home. The first time you saw Durant play at Texas, you just knew. There are guys who are just stars and then there are guys who find there niche. But there are a lot of guys the experts say are stars that just flat out aren't.

From a distance you could see right away that Haraway had it and Wagner didn't, even if he was the Messiah
From a distance you can see that Joe Jackson was way too small and weak to ever hold his own with the big boys even in college, let alone the NBA
From a distance it was obvious Will Barton and Rose and Tyreke could play and Adonis Thomas could not.

So say what you want, but waaaay more often than you would think, the so-called experts can't see the forest for the trees. All the drills and practice squads and high school dunks and AAU circuses can't take the place of getting out there with the TV cameras rolling, 20,000 people in the stands and everyone is hanging on your performance.

Wagner was a player...Much better than Barton without question.

Barton was a GREAT D1 player his sophomore year; much better than Wagner.

I'm not too sure about that, and Wagner left after his freshman year as a lottery pick

Wagner
21.2 ppg
41.0 fg%
31.7 3pt%
72.2 ft%
2.5 reb
3.6 apg
2.9 to
1.2 st

Barton
18.0 ppg
50.9 fg%
34.6 3pt%
74.9 ft%
8.0 reb
2.9 apg
2.1 to
1.4 st

Better across the board IMO.

True...His second year Barton performed better than Wagner as a freshmen but Wagner was a better talent...Wagner just couldn't stay healthy in the league.

Now lets not forget that Wagner was in the league at 19 and Barton was still in High School. But hey why would we compare freshmen to freshmen since we are talking evaluations...Yup seems fair to compare an 18 year old freshmen to a 21 year old Sophomore.

Yep...Lets compare a Junior CDR to a freshmen Rose based on stats...Yep Across the board better

(10-31-2014 04:15 PM)Rob Wrote:  Pathetic? Did I run over a baby or something? It's an opinion on a basketball player, which has so far been right. I even made sure to add that I'd like to be wrong so people like you wouldn't get your feelings hurt. Of course second year guys make a leap but you ignore the core of my argument, his age. You constantly drag down the level of decorum of this board with your pettiness. Your only apparent interest is to take shots at everyone with whom you disagree, not discuss Tiger related ideas with any civility. There's no mystery as to why you are regularly banned. It's Friday, go have a beer and relax.

Great post. As far as I'm concerned you should have the right to give your opinions here. Keep posting.

(10-31-2014 04:15 PM)Rob Wrote:  Pathetic? Did I run over a baby or something? It's an opinion on a basketball player, which has so far been right. I even made sure to add that I'd like to be wrong so people like you wouldn't get your feelings hurt. Of course second year guys make a leap but you ignore the core of my argument, his age. You constantly drag down the level of decorum of this board with your pettiness. Your only apparent interest is to take shots at everyone with whom you disagree, not discuss Tiger related ideas with any civility. There's no mystery as to why you are regularly banned. It's Friday, go have a beer and relax.

Funny that you take some pretty serious shots at Iverson and that is fine, but it is not fine for someone to call you out on it. I didn't ignore anything. Here are your main points...

Quote:I've been down on him from day 1 because of his age.

Ok for you to be down on a Tiger the minute he sets foot on campus, but apparently not ok for someone to call you on it. What you said about Iverson is 10X worse than what I said about you.

Quote:he came in at 20 years old and looked completely lost.

Apparently once someone hits the age of 20; you can say with certainty that they are too old to learn anything. It seems like you are saying that Iverson is a word beginning with a "d" and is destined to be this word forever.

Quote:Of course second year guys make a leap

But you have already decided that Iverson will never be good.

Quote:I even made sure to add that I'd like to be wrong so people like you wouldn't get your feelings hurt

I merely commented on how it is funny in a pathetic way for someone to be "down" on a 20 year kid the second he sets food on campus and to give up on him forever because his age makes it unlikely that he can learn anything over the next 4 years.

My feelings aren't hurt; yours are.

(10-31-2014 04:59 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 03:28 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:57 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:35 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:24 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Wagner was a player...Much better than Barton without question.

Barton was a GREAT D1 player his sophomore year; much better than Wagner.

I'm not too sure about that, and Wagner left after his freshman year as a lottery pick

Wagner
21.2 ppg
41.0 fg%
31.7 3pt%
72.2 ft%
2.5 reb
3.6 apg
2.9 to
1.2 st

Barton
18.0 ppg
50.9 fg%
34.6 3pt%
74.9 ft%
8.0 reb
2.9 apg
2.1 to
1.4 st

Better across the board IMO.

True...His second year Barton performed better than Wagner as a freshmen but Wagner was a better talent...Wagner just couldn't stay healthy in the league.

Now lets not forget that Wagner was in the league at 19 and Barton was still in High School. But hey why would we compare freshmen to freshmen since we are talking evaluations...Yup seems fair to compare an 18 year old freshmen to a 21 year old Sophomore.

Yep...Lets compare a Junior CDR to a freshmen Rose based on stats...Yep Across the board better

Wagner would have turned out to be a better pro; but that has nothing to do with the debate about who was a better D1 player. The blanket statement was made that Wagner was better than Barton. Wagner wasn't better than Barton as a sophomore. Barton was a great D1 two guard. Wagner was a talented but flawed D1 point guard. A stats comparison solidifies the argument in favour of Barton.

Quote:Yep...Lets compare a Junior CDR to a freshmen Rose based on stats...Yep Across the board better

Why would anyone do that?

Holy cow. I don't think a kid will live up to his recruiting ranking and that makes me the worst person on the planet. I'm actually impressed you read between the lines, though. You're the only one who realized that, when I said that I didn't think he'd live up to the hype on the basketball court, I actually meant that I hate him as a human and only wish terrible things upon him. You're much too clever for my subtlety.

(11-01-2014 09:28 AM)Rob Wrote:  Holy cow. I don't think a kid will live up to his recruiting ranking and that makes me the worst person on the planet. I'm actually impressed you read between the lines, though. You're the only one who realized that, when I said that I didn't think he'd live up to the hype on the basketball court, I actually meant that I hate him as a human and only wish terrible things upon him. You're much too clever for my subtlety.