Liberty wins...But they have yet made it to the playoffs...

Meantime Georgia State was not successful (in football) in both the CAA and now the Sun Belt. They have the chance to get better, but their lack of success in football is apparently trumped by their market.

The only thing that can help Liberty at this point is to continue to win. Winning will make the presidents look past Liberty's "downfalls".

(09-19-2014 08:48 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  Well maybe nobody wants them because the don't win?

I'd say that if GAST and Liberty swapped cities, Nobody would even be talking about inviting GAST and Liberty might have already been invited.

I'd say you're wrong. Lack of winning is not the motivating factor to keep them out. Swap founders and historical path? I'd agree with you.

But winning isn't a pre-req. Hell, Texas State (save for one year) was never a world beater or a perennial conference champion contender, and we got an invite (granted, I believe we got the invite because of our super awesome location).

(09-19-2014 09:36 AM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(09-19-2014 08:48 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  Well maybe nobody wants them because the don't win?

I'd say that if GAST and Liberty swapped cities, Nobody would even be talking about inviting GAST and Liberty might have already been invited.

I'd say you're wrong. Lack of winning is not the motivating factor to keep them out. Swap founders and historical path? I'd agree with you.

But winning isn't a pre-req. Hell, Texas State (save for one year) was never a world beater or a perennial conference champion contender, and we got an invite (granted, I believe we got the invite because of our super awesome location).

Location is my point. Atlanta would trump a lot of things. Winning (obviously) and even maybe the other stuff to.

(09-19-2014 09:41 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(09-19-2014 09:36 AM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(09-19-2014 08:48 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  Well maybe nobody wants them because the don't win?

I'd say that if GAST and Liberty swapped cities, Nobody would even be talking about inviting GAST and Liberty might have already been invited.

I'd say you're wrong. Lack of winning is not the motivating factor to keep them out. Swap founders and historical path? I'd agree with you.

But winning isn't a pre-req. Hell, Texas State (save for one year) was never a world beater or a perennial conference champion contender, and we got an invite (granted, I believe we got the invite because of our super awesome location).

Location is my point. Atlanta would trump a lot of things. Winning (obviously) and even maybe the other stuff to.

No

(09-19-2014 09:32 AM)LUcanesfan Wrote:  Liberty wins...But they have yet made it to the playoffs...

Meantime Georgia State was not successful (in football) in both the CAA and now the Sun Belt. They have the chance to get better, but their lack of success in football is apparently trumped by their market.

The only thing that can help Liberty at this point is to continue to win. Winning will make the presidents look past Liberty's "downfalls".

You know, I wouldn't be so down on LU if they would change their rhetoric. You (Liberty U. and its students) are entitled to your beliefs and stances but you don't recognize anyone else's and sometimes attack their position. The world is not made up of solely fundamentalist Southern Baptist. I'm a Southern Baptist and even I don't agree with everything that is said by LU's representatives. The self-righteous and condemning rhetoric has to stop in order for Liberty University to be embraced as a potential member. As it stands right now, LU is its own worst enemy.

(09-19-2014 08:44 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  I want a 12 member sooner than later. I don't care if it is Liberty, EKU or MSU.

I have no concern for the views of Liberty as nobody is going to assume that the rest of the teams in the conference share all the same opinions, that is just crazy stupid imop. My primary concerns about Liberty revolve around their ability to compete and not drag this conference down in football strength. They simply need to WIN! Come on Liberty. If you want in, then pour all those resources into recruiting and coaching and win the dang conference, make the playoffs and bring home a National Championship. If you cant at least be knocking on the door near the end of the playoffs then do you really think you are going to be an asset in football? BRING IT!

But I really am ready for a Conference Championship Game. I think the conference NEEDS it for exposure and excitement and potentially spring boarding the SBC champ into a bowl and eventually the playoff. Also, I hate split titles, had enough of that in the So Con. AND.. I'd love to see post season play at Paulson, that's one tradition I'd love to continue. BONUS Home games! That is something to look forward to.

...and that is why you are no making the money decisions. The exposure from CCG? Gimme a break. Other than the Houston/USM CCG what other G5 game has garnered this so called attention? As for Liberty winning or not winning, winning vs. realignment has been rehashed so much on CSNbbs that we are all a littl tired of it I would say. Suffice it to say that most schools that changed conferences the last three years had losing records at the time. Unless someone gets WACed in the Eastern part of the U.S. , Liberty isnt getting picked.

(09-19-2014 09:51 AM)panama Wrote:  

(09-19-2014 08:44 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  I want a 12 member sooner than later. I don't care if it is Liberty, EKU or MSU.

I have no concern for the views of Liberty as nobody is going to assume that the rest of the teams in the conference share all the same opinions, that is just crazy stupid imop. My primary concerns about Liberty revolve around their ability to compete and not drag this conference down in football strength. They simply need to WIN! Come on Liberty. If you want in, then pour all those resources into recruiting and coaching and win the dang conference, make the playoffs and bring home a National Championship. If you cant at least be knocking on the door near the end of the playoffs then do you really think you are going to be an asset in football? BRING IT!

But I really am ready for a Conference Championship Game. I think the conference NEEDS it for exposure and excitement and potentially spring boarding the SBC champ into a bowl and eventually the playoff. Also, I hate split titles, had enough of that in the So Con. AND.. I'd love to see post season play at Paulson, that's one tradition I'd love to continue. BONUS Home games! That is something to look forward to.

...and that is why you are no making the money decisions. The exposure from CCG? Gimme a break. Other than the Houston/USM CCG what other G5 game has garnered this so called attention? As for Liberty winning or not winning, winning vs. realignment has been rehashed so much on CSNbbs that we are all a littl tired of it I would say. Suffice it to say that most schools that changed conferences the last three years had losing records at the time. Unless someone gets WACed in the Eastern part of the U.S. , Liberty isnt getting picked.

Yea, we all know winning and realignment haven't always been in sink. As gast's invite proves.

But the focus has shifted as now there is $ incentive for being the best G5 and access to a big bowl that sos will help gain.

Things have changed, winning is very important. MAYBE if they were winning like NDSU is, SOME would feel differently - even if you wouldnt.

And a CCG DOES bring attention. People in general are going to care more about a game with the "championship" label than most regular season games. i know I watched several CCG games but didnt watch much of those conferences in the regular season.

You dont have to agree with the spring board theory, and im aware it can work in reverse - but I believe in it and I dont fear the negative side.

CCGs make sense to me.

I'm also glad that you dont make the money decisions.

(09-19-2014 10:01 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(09-19-2014 09:51 AM)panama Wrote:  

(09-19-2014 08:44 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  I want a 12 member sooner than later. I don't care if it is Liberty, EKU or MSU.

I have no concern for the views of Liberty as nobody is going to assume that the rest of the teams in the conference share all the same opinions, that is just crazy stupid imop. My primary concerns about Liberty revolve around their ability to compete and not drag this conference down in football strength. They simply need to WIN! Come on Liberty. If you want in, then pour all those resources into recruiting and coaching and win the dang conference, make the playoffs and bring home a National Championship. If you cant at least be knocking on the door near the end of the playoffs then do you really think you are going to be an asset in football? BRING IT!

But I really am ready for a Conference Championship Game. I think the conference NEEDS it for exposure and excitement and potentially spring boarding the SBC champ into a bowl and eventually the playoff. Also, I hate split titles, had enough of that in the So Con. AND.. I'd love to see post season play at Paulson, that's one tradition I'd love to continue. BONUS Home games! That is something to look forward to.

...and that is why you are no making the money decisions. The exposure from CCG? Gimme a break. Other than the Houston/USM CCG what other G5 game has garnered this so called attention? As for Liberty winning or not winning, winning vs. realignment has been rehashed so much on CSNbbs that we are all a littl tired of it I would say. Suffice it to say that most schools that changed conferences the last three years had losing records at the time. Unless someone gets WACed in the Eastern part of the U.S. , Liberty isnt getting picked.

Yea, we all know winning and realignment haven't always been in sink. As gast's invite proves.

But the focus has shifted as now there is $ incentive for being the best G5 and access to a big bowl that sos will help gain.

Things have changed, winning is very important. MAYBE if they were winning like NDSU is, SOME would feel differently - even if you wouldnt.

And a CCG DOES bring attention. People in general are going to care more about a game with the "championship" label than most regular season games. i know I watched several CCG games but didnt watch much of those conferences in the regular season.

You dont have to agree with the spring board theory, and im aware it can work in reverse - but I believe in it and I dont fear the negative side.

CCGs make sense to me.

I'm also glad that you dont make the money decisions.

They make sense but you dont add one just to add one. There are only a couple making money. So why add one just to say you added one and even worse, why add a school just to get a CCG?It has to be the right school and if that school existed and wanted to be added they would have been added with GS and App. That's the bottom line.

Conference presidents do not seem to want a CCG.

(09-19-2014 10:10 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Conference presidents do not seem to want a CCG.

Not at any cost anyway.

The biggest problem with Liberty posters is they assume the SBC is starving for their money. Conference ties foster academic ties. Faculty, Alumni, students follow their teams to other campuses and they collaborate and form educational, business and leadership friendships. Apparently, Liberty's goals in these areas does not mesh with the majority of the schools in the SBC. Therefore, no amount of money can buy the requisite number of votes to gain access to the SBC.

And with that I will say, if you cant get FloridaJag on board then sorry Liberty, you really ARE toast.

Guys, none of the issues that were present last year have been resolved this year.

1) Liberty still has never been to a FCS playoff game, much less won one.
2) Liberty still discriminates in hiring on the basis of religion, sexual orientation, and marital status
3) Liberty still continues its association with and promotion of extreme human rights violations, extremely offensive comments and proposals targeting some members of the Sun Belt community, and even has retained its discriminatory policies regarding admissions and qualifications to be a student. They aren't BYU or Baylor or Notre Dame.

Meanwhile

1) Do we need them for a CCG? Do we even need a CCG at this point?
2) We have to watch out for how future potential adds to the conference would look at LU in the event that we get raided again
3) Liberty still doesn't really bring much of a 'market'.
4) Their academic model of certificate and online education might not be consistent with the Belt.

If you think that LU's richly earned (by its' administration at least) reputation didn't play a role in the Sun Belt's decision making process, you're delusional. And that's another problem. We really cannot communicate properly with them because they'll whine everytime they don't get their way. They don't negotiate, but dictate. And then scream 'religious discrimination' while they are engaged in much worse religious discrimination than they are (incorrectly) accusing the Belt of doing (evangelicals can and do enrich each Sun Belt institution as students, faculty, staff, administrators, fans, and athletes). Their refusal to negotiate or compromise bodes very poorly for any conference that takes them. They sell shirts that say "Politically Incorrect since 1971". What that is really saying is "offending others is what we do, we know we're offending others, and we're proud of it". Its fine to be a bit politically incorrect if that is the result of a reasoned or rational opinion. But to be proud of the fact that your views offend others? That's something entirely different.

Want to know when Liberty is serious? When they enact employment and student policies consistent with SMU, Notre Dame, BYU, or Baylor. When they stop making offending others a 'selling point' at the school. When they expect that high ranking University officials represent the university in a manner consistent with common decency and goodwill. When they actually translate some of those supposed benefits that they can bring to the Belt to their current conference. The sad thing is......they could do all of this without violating one verse of the Bible.

Many of the students aren't the problem. But we have to deal with the administration.

My $0.02.

I hope Liberty ends up in C-USA with us.

Tom, why don't you go over to the Big 12 board and harass Baylor?

http://www.baylor.edu/student_policies/i...p?id=32295

(09-19-2014 08:17 PM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  I hope Liberty ends up in C-USA with us.

So does most of the members of the Sun Belt.

(09-19-2014 08:17 PM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  I hope Liberty ends up in C-USA with us.

Tom, why don't you go over to the Big 12 board and harass Baylor?

http://www.baylor.edu/student_policies/i...p?id=32295

The day that happens I hope Marshall is gone. If you want ODU associated with Liberty then have your admin join the Big South.

(09-18-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 09:35 AM)JoeJag Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 08:44 AM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  Another Liberty thread so I'll say my piece again, and completely avoid the religious, socio-political angle. It's always stated that Liberty is the most ready to move up, with a massive financial war chest. The rest of the SBC is 2nd tier state schools, and subject to all of the vagaries of state budget processes, why would we want to bring in a school that could theoretically spend their way to the top of the conference without any of the budgetary constraints that the rest of us are subject to. No thanks. They are not a fit.

I'm in agreement. PLEASE !! Let's just say no to Liberty. Or make that, SBC presidents, PLEASE say NO to Liberty.

They have...twice

How ever many times it takes to become final so they can go to coosa.

(09-19-2014 08:22 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  

(09-19-2014 08:17 PM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  I hope Liberty ends up in C-USA with us.

So does most of the members of the Sun Belt.

I would welcome Baylor to C-USA as well.

http://www.baylor.edu/student_policies/i...p?id=32295

(09-19-2014 08:17 PM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  I hope Liberty ends up in C-USA with us.

Tom, why don't you go over to the Big 12 board and harass Baylor?

http://www.baylor.edu/student_policies/i...p?id=32295

Several reasons.

1) The Big XII-II is not my home. The Sun Belt has been my home for 40 years. I've been attending Sun Belt events since the 1970's.

2) Baylor's policies are by far the worst of any FBS program (including BYU). But they still aren't as bad as Liberty's. If Baylor hired Mat Staver to be the new Dean of a Law School, there'd be strong opposition from the Baylor community.

3) There is strong and public opposition to those policies from within the Baylor community. Virtually no one in the Liberty community is willing to publicly challenge LU's policies.

4) Baylor would have fallen to at least the MWC had the Big XII fallen apart. Because of a variety of factors, including their policies. Baylor is where it is because of incumbency (and ironically because of the pressure put on the Big XII-II from a pro-Gay liberal Democratic Governor). And they could win a National Championship or two and still probably get left behind if they needed another home. The SEC doesn't want them. The ACC, B1G and PAC won't take them.

Am I happy with Baylor's policies? No. But its not in my home, its not as bad as LU and people within that community are saying 'this is wrong'.

(09-20-2014 09:40 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(09-19-2014 08:17 PM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  I hope Liberty ends up in C-USA with us.

Tom, why don't you go over to the Big 12 board and harass Baylor?

http://www.baylor.edu/student_policies/i...p?id=32295

Am I happy with Baylor's policies? No.

So what you are saying is when it comes to politics and religion it's "Your Way or The Highway". Gotcha! A lot of us disagree with you though?