(08-04-2013 10:19 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:14 AM)Smaug Wrote:  So, we have the bitching, and the bitching about the bitching.

The question is, when all the bitching is done, what are we, as a society, going to do about it?

Nothing.

As long as people believe that the problems minorities have stem from their skin color rather than economic problems and social status.

It's got a hell of a lot more to do with the complete failure of African-American "fathers". Few things make me happier than meeting a black man that takes responsibility for his wife, loves his children and will do anything to help them succeed in life. Sadly those guys are in a smaller supply by %. I have no idea why but I doubt it has a lot to do with being poor or slavery from ~150 yrs ago. I don't care what anybody says that's a piss poor excuse in 2013.

One thing that's always annoyed me is the misrepresentation of slavery itself. Roughly 25% of white families in American had slaves. To read public school history books you'd think the % was more like 75-90%.

(08-04-2013 11:20 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:23 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:19 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:14 AM)Smaug Wrote:  So, we have the bitching, and the bitching about the bitching.

The question is, when all the bitching is done, what are we, as a society, going to do about it?

Nothing.

As long as people believe that the problems minorities have stem from their skin color rather than economic problems and social status.

Who believes that?...other than the very minority to which you refer? Ironic..huh?

People of all races are equal in every way shape and form. Therefore, to believe that someone's economic or social status is different because of something they themselves are doing is in and of itself a racist statement.

BS..It's stating facts. I guess the 70% rate of unwed mothers is due to simple economics and social status? That's GD hogwash. Actions have consequences. In what world do people live in which they can't figure out how to screw and not get pregnant? They will GIVE you condoms at the health department for free. There is NO excuse for piss poor behavior.

You are missing the point. There may be more unwed mothers in the black community but that doesn't mean it is because they are black.

(08-04-2013 10:46 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:38 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:36 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:19 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:14 AM)Smaug Wrote:  So, we have the bitching, and the bitching about the bitching.

The question is, when all the bitching is done, what are we, as a society, going to do about it?

Nothing.

As long as people believe that the problems minorities have stem from their skin color rather than economic problems and social status.

Ignorant answer. It's time that those struggling learn to do more for themselves and to rely less on others. Now, how to go about that is the problem. As a society we cannot remove assistance to those that need it most, but somehow we must instill in them a sense of personal responsibility that will lead them to wanting to get off those assistance programs, not rely on them.

You are suggesting that somehow because they are black that they have less personal responsibility?

What is it about their skin color that causes that?

It has absolutely nothing to do with skin color. There are poor and uneducated white people that face the same struggles and have no sense of personal responsibility. Tell me, does a man that has 3 or 4 children by 3 or 4 different mothers that he may or may not support sound like a person with a great deal of personal responsibility? There has been a support system created in this country that traps many people, among them african-americans, and erodes personal responsibility as they become more and more used to living off government checks. Those checks need to be reallocated to provide an incentive to leave programs rather than to rely on them, in other words personal responsibility.

I agree. The system incentives poor choices and the cycle of dependency. The second ANYONE takes a subsidy from the public they should have to submit to implanted contraception. That should be the first condition to receive public charity. If you can not financially take care of yourself..you damn sure have no business bring a child into the mess.

This thread should've stopped at the first post. I can't believe what this board has turned into.

(08-04-2013 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:46 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:38 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:36 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:19 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Nothing.

As long as people believe that the problems minorities have stem from their skin color rather than economic problems and social status.

Ignorant answer. It's time that those struggling learn to do more for themselves and to rely less on others. Now, how to go about that is the problem. As a society we cannot remove assistance to those that need it most, but somehow we must instill in them a sense of personal responsibility that will lead them to wanting to get off those assistance programs, not rely on them.

You are suggesting that somehow because they are black that they have less personal responsibility?

What is it about their skin color that causes that?

It has absolutely nothing to do with skin color. There are poor and uneducated white people that face the same struggles and have no sense of personal responsibility. Tell me, does a man that has 3 or 4 children by 3 or 4 different mothers that he may or may not support sound like a person with a great deal of personal responsibility? There has been a support system created in this country that traps many people, among them african-americans, and erodes personal responsibility as they become more and more used to living off government checks. Those checks need to be reallocated to provide an incentive to leave programs rather than to rely on them, in other words personal responsibility.

I agree. The system incentives poor choices and the cycle of dependency. The second ANYONE takes a subsidy from the public they should have to submit to implanted contraception. That should be the first condition to receive public charity. If you can not financially take care of yourself..you damn sure have no business bring a child into the mess.

What you and others are assuming however is that the system has more failure than success.

The statistics show however that these safety nets are actually a good investment for most.

Most people get off of government assistance and become productive, tax paying citizens paying for more in taxes over their lifetime than they ever took from the system.

(08-04-2013 11:24 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:20 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:23 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:19 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Nothing.

As long as people believe that the problems minorities have stem from their skin color rather than economic problems and social status.

Who believes that?...other than the very minority to which you refer? Ironic..huh?

People of all races are equal in every way shape and form. Therefore, to believe that someone's economic or social status is different because of something they themselves are doing is in and of itself a racist statement.

BS..It's stating facts. I guess the 70% rate of unwed mothers is due to simple economics and social status? That's GD hogwash. Actions have consequences. In what world do people live in which they can't figure out how to screw and not get pregnant? They will GIVE you condoms at the health department for free. There is NO excuse for piss poor behavior.

You are missing the point. There may be more unwed mothers in the black community but that doesn't mean it is because they are black.

It is not racist to believe someones economic or social status is different because of something they themselves are doing. It is stating a fact. Our behavior directly influences both of those things..either positively or negatively...regardless of one skin color.

My dad told me once..."Son..If you want to be a bum?..go do what bum's do. If you want to be successful?..go do what successful people do..It ain't complicated"

(08-04-2013 11:28 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This thread should've stopped at the first post. I can't believe what this board has turned into.

Huh? This is the political board. The OP just stated facts for discussion. It's a controversial topic sure but it very appropriate here. If you don't like it, don't read it.

(08-04-2013 11:35 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:46 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:38 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:36 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Ignorant answer. It's time that those struggling learn to do more for themselves and to rely less on others. Now, how to go about that is the problem. As a society we cannot remove assistance to those that need it most, but somehow we must instill in them a sense of personal responsibility that will lead them to wanting to get off those assistance programs, not rely on them.

You are suggesting that somehow because they are black that they have less personal responsibility?

What is it about their skin color that causes that?

It has absolutely nothing to do with skin color. There are poor and uneducated white people that face the same struggles and have no sense of personal responsibility. Tell me, does a man that has 3 or 4 children by 3 or 4 different mothers that he may or may not support sound like a person with a great deal of personal responsibility? There has been a support system created in this country that traps many people, among them african-americans, and erodes personal responsibility as they become more and more used to living off government checks. Those checks need to be reallocated to provide an incentive to leave programs rather than to rely on them, in other words personal responsibility.

I agree. The system incentives poor choices and the cycle of dependency. The second ANYONE takes a subsidy from the public they should have to submit to implanted contraception. That should be the first condition to receive public charity. If you can not financially take care of yourself..you damn sure have no business bring a child into the mess.

What you and others are assuming however is that the system has more failure than success.

The statistics show however that these safety nets are actually a good investment for most.

Most people get off of government assistance and become productive, tax paying citizens paying for more in taxes over their lifetime than they ever took from the system.

I don't propose removing the safety net. In fact..I have no problem making it more beneficial to those that need it. I propose closing the loopholes that allow abuse of it and propagation of the cycle of welfare dependency. This BTW is not a black/white issue with me. This is an American issue.

(08-04-2013 11:40 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:28 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This thread should've stopped at the first post. I can't believe what this board has turned into.

Huh? This is the political board. The OP just stated facts for discussion. It's a controversial topic sure but it very appropriate here. If you don't like it, don't read it.

My comment was very appropriate also. I have a right to have grievance don't I? It's not just this topic, every topic seems to devolve into this now.

(08-04-2013 11:45 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:40 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:28 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This thread should've stopped at the first post. I can't believe what this board has turned into.

Huh? This is the political board. The OP just stated facts for discussion. It's a controversial topic sure but it very appropriate here. If you don't like it, don't read it.

My comment was very appropriate also. I have a right to have grievance don't I? It's not just this topic, every topic seems to devolve into this now.

Blame Bill O'Reilly.

(08-04-2013 11:49 AM)Paul M Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:45 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:40 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:28 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This thread should've stopped at the first post. I can't believe what this board has turned into.

Huh? This is the political board. The OP just stated facts for discussion. It's a controversial topic sure but it very appropriate here. If you don't like it, don't read it.

My comment was very appropriate also. I have a right to have grievance don't I? It's not just this topic, every topic seems to devolve into this now.

Blame Bill O'Reilly.

I blame the blacks.

(08-04-2013 11:51 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:49 AM)Paul M Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:45 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:40 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:28 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This thread should've stopped at the first post. I can't believe what this board has turned into.

Huh? This is the political board. The OP just stated facts for discussion. It's a controversial topic sure but it very appropriate here. If you don't like it, don't read it.

My comment was very appropriate also. I have a right to have grievance don't I? It's not just this topic, every topic seems to devolve into this now.

Blame Bill O'Reilly.

I blame the blacks.

I blame everyone that acts like an idiot....regardless of the color of their skin. This is not just a black problem. Everywhere I look I see irresponsible people.

(08-04-2013 11:40 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:35 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:46 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 10:38 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  You are suggesting that somehow because they are black that they have less personal responsibility?

What is it about their skin color that causes that?

It has absolutely nothing to do with skin color. There are poor and uneducated white people that face the same struggles and have no sense of personal responsibility. Tell me, does a man that has 3 or 4 children by 3 or 4 different mothers that he may or may not support sound like a person with a great deal of personal responsibility? There has been a support system created in this country that traps many people, among them african-americans, and erodes personal responsibility as they become more and more used to living off government checks. Those checks need to be reallocated to provide an incentive to leave programs rather than to rely on them, in other words personal responsibility.

I agree. The system incentives poor choices and the cycle of dependency. The second ANYONE takes a subsidy from the public they should have to submit to implanted contraception. That should be the first condition to receive public charity. If you can not financially take care of yourself..you damn sure have no business bring a child into the mess.

What you and others are assuming however is that the system has more failure than success.

The statistics show however that these safety nets are actually a good investment for most.

Most people get off of government assistance and become productive, tax paying citizens paying for more in taxes over their lifetime than they ever took from the system.

I don't propose removing the safety net. In fact..I have no problem making it more beneficial to those that need it. I propose closing the loopholes that allow abuse of it and propagation of the cycle of welfare dependency. This BTW is not a black/white issue with me. This is an American issue.

This. The system need improving, not just expanding by dumping more and more money and more and more benefits into it.

(08-04-2013 09:00 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  It's obvious that the blacks are what is wrong with America. So I suggest that we round them all up and put them into concentration camps where they will be summarily exterminated. Then we can go back to living in Utopia and winning presidential elections.

A bunch of folks on here took this seriously...

(08-04-2013 12:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:51 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:49 AM)Paul M Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:45 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:40 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Huh? This is the political board. The OP just stated facts for discussion. It's a controversial topic sure but it very appropriate here. If you don't like it, don't read it.

My comment was very appropriate also. I have a right to have grievance don't I? It's not just this topic, every topic seems to devolve into this now.

Blame Bill O'Reilly.

I blame the blacks.

I blame everyone that acts like an idiot....regardless of the color of their skin. This is not just a black problem. Everywhere I look I see irresponsible people.

Ok. Blame the Jews and Muslims too.

I love how people that never lived a day in a hood wants to bring up facts that they know little about. Casting stones aye. The entire premise of this thread screams racism IMO.

(08-04-2013 12:24 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 09:00 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  It's obvious that the blacks are what is wrong with America. So I suggest that we round them all up and put them into concentration camps where they will be summarily exterminated. Then we can go back to living in Utopia and winning presidential elections.

A bunch of folks on here took this seriously...

It's as serious as the radio(Sirius).

(08-04-2013 12:29 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I love how people that never lived a day in a hood wants to bring up facts that they know little about. Casting stones aye. The entire premise of this thread screams racism IMO.

Hey I don't blame Blacks I blame white liberals... That's how we got here, the soft racism of lowered expectations applied at the federal level. The same thing would befall any racial group which was treated as if they were too backwards to form their own families and education themselves.

So the question is this CP... Is the near 80% out of wedlock birth rate helping or hurting the AA community? what do we do to fix it if it's a problem?

I'm part Italian, Irish, German, and Armenian. My grandparents used to tell me that 100 years ago the discrimination against the Italians and Irish was horrible. In fact, my Irish grandfather used to tell me about shops and factories having signs saying that "Irish need not apply." Back then there were no social programs or national leaders to speak out on their behalf, you either made it or you didn't. We now have a black president, but when did we ever have an Italian, German, Irish, or Armenian one?

Being part Armenian, you don't see me blaming the Turks for what happened a long time ago to people I will never know, by people who I will never know. And there is no Rev. Al Sharptanian to keep the Armenian holocaust alive even though it happened long after slavery in this country ended.

I see part of the problem as the economic status of each ethnic group. As the Irish and Italians worked their asses off and gained economic power and respect, those without that power and respect now fell to the bottom and were considered lower class. Growing up on the outskirts of NYC, we used to look at Puerto Ricans as the low economic class and they were treated as such. They eventually moved up a notch when the Dominicans flooded into the city and they became the new lower class.

For the percentage of black people we have in this country their economic clout is out of whack. This is possibly due to the high unemployment within their community along with the low paying jobs they tend to get. I also feel that blacks haven't taken advantage of the America Dream. To the Irish and Italians the American dream was only fulfilled with hard work, it was an opportunity, not a guarantee. I feel many in the black community these days see the America Dream as freebies. Look at the Mexican illegals, they will work their asses off for a few bucks and they are already becoming an economic power house.

Blacks need to police their own but doing so would mean they have to admit to dropping the ball. And if we tell them to get their collective **** together we're racists. One of the biggest disappoints we have in this area is listening to pro athletes speak, you would never know they went to college at all. Blacks are given every opportunity to get ahead and then some. I just don't see them collectively taking advantage of it.

I blame whomever takes NO responsibility for their lives, actions and families, then the enablers who make excuses for them. Including the f'ing lawyers.