(03-25-2013 05:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Right but what I'm getting at, if he gets VCU in the Big East, I would hope that he would be able to get the better athletes to compete. If he can't at that point and has to leave, that speaks more to our conference than anything else.

I don't see how the potential recruiting of one coach speaks about the conference at any level.

If he wasn't able to get recruits to come there to play Big East Basketball- it speaks volumes about big east basketball. It'd be like if Xavier or Butler couldn't recruit top level talent to play Big East ball- it'd speak volumes there as well. Or Creighton.

(03-25-2013 05:12 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:59 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  But it's not just about paying him. It's also about being able to build the type of facilities that will get the best kids to come to VCU. Conferences like SEC and B1G can afford those things. The UM game showed some serious flaws in Smarts style. He needs better athletes to compete at the highest level.

So, we're building a practice facility that when all is said and done will be in the $20 million dollar range. Planning for this began immediately after the Final Four run. Ground breaking is this spring. Shaka and VCU are the first school and coach in Virginia to ever graduate back-to-back first round NBA draftees. Aside from upgrading the stadium from 7,500 to, say, 10,000, that's about as top-of-the-line as it gets in terms of getting recruits. Somehow an extra $2.5 million in TV money is going get us a rented 18,000 seat arena? No.

The UM game showed "flaws" in the style in that the style was matched with the best ball-handling team in the country (at home) with a front court full of future first round NBA draftees. Oh, and the style lost its 7-footer just before the tournament. You can't make the press work when the shots aren't dropping and you don't have a tree like Dieng to keep people honest in the lane and around the rim, but that's situational and NOT structural. Imagine what that same "flawed" style would have done to a KU team that shot 0% from 3 and got turned over 17 times by WKU. If you really think Shaka went home and said "darn, if only I was in the Big East we could have lost by 15 instead of 25!" then I don't know what to tell you.

So it wasn't that they had better athletes who beat your press all game long? Just that you lost your 7 footer? If you want to be a real contender you're going to come across teams full of future first round picks.

Playing in the A-10 will not let you out recruit the power schools. Im sorry but VCU does not have the same resources as bigger name schools. They just don't.

Like I said before, if you don't think he will leave you will be disappointed one day. That day could be very soon.

(03-25-2013 06:04 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If he wasn't able to get recruits to come there to play Big East Basketball- it speaks volumes about big east basketball. It'd be like if Xavier or Butler couldn't recruit top level talent to play Big East ball- it'd speak volumes there as well. Or Creighton.

No, it speaks volumes about that coach. Coaches in power conferences flop all the time.

(03-25-2013 06:16 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 05:12 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:59 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  But it's not just about paying him. It's also about being able to build the type of facilities that will get the best kids to come to VCU. Conferences like SEC and B1G can afford those things. The UM game showed some serious flaws in Smarts style. He needs better athletes to compete at the highest level.

So, we're building a practice facility that when all is said and done will be in the $20 million dollar range. Planning for this began immediately after the Final Four run. Ground breaking is this spring. Shaka and VCU are the first school and coach in Virginia to ever graduate back-to-back first round NBA draftees. Aside from upgrading the stadium from 7,500 to, say, 10,000, that's about as top-of-the-line as it gets in terms of getting recruits. Somehow an extra $2.5 million in TV money is going get us a rented 18,000 seat arena? No.

The UM game showed "flaws" in the style in that the style was matched with the best ball-handling team in the country (at home) with a front court full of future first round NBA draftees. Oh, and the style lost its 7-footer just before the tournament. You can't make the press work when the shots aren't dropping and you don't have a tree like Dieng to keep people honest in the lane and around the rim, but that's situational and NOT structural. Imagine what that same "flawed" style would have done to a KU team that shot 0% from 3 and got turned over 17 times by WKU. If you really think Shaka went home and said "darn, if only I was in the Big East we could have lost by 15 instead of 25!" then I don't know what to tell you.

So it wasn't that they had better athletes who beat your press all game long? Just that you lost your 7 footer? If you want to be a real contender you're going to come across teams full of future first round picks.

Playing in the A-10 will not let you out recruit the power schools. Im sorry but VCU does not have the same resources as bigger name schools. They just don't.

Like I said before, if you don't think he will leave you will be disappointed one day. That day could be very soon.

If they joined the Big East, they would have the same resources.

(03-25-2013 06:20 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 06:16 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 05:12 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:59 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  But it's not just about paying him. It's also about being able to build the type of facilities that will get the best kids to come to VCU. Conferences like SEC and B1G can afford those things. The UM game showed some serious flaws in Smarts style. He needs better athletes to compete at the highest level.

So, we're building a practice facility that when all is said and done will be in the $20 million dollar range. Planning for this began immediately after the Final Four run. Ground breaking is this spring. Shaka and VCU are the first school and coach in Virginia to ever graduate back-to-back first round NBA draftees. Aside from upgrading the stadium from 7,500 to, say, 10,000, that's about as top-of-the-line as it gets in terms of getting recruits. Somehow an extra $2.5 million in TV money is going get us a rented 18,000 seat arena? No.

The UM game showed "flaws" in the style in that the style was matched with the best ball-handling team in the country (at home) with a front court full of future first round NBA draftees. Oh, and the style lost its 7-footer just before the tournament. You can't make the press work when the shots aren't dropping and you don't have a tree like Dieng to keep people honest in the lane and around the rim, but that's situational and NOT structural. Imagine what that same "flawed" style would have done to a KU team that shot 0% from 3 and got turned over 17 times by WKU. If you really think Shaka went home and said "darn, if only I was in the Big East we could have lost by 15 instead of 25!" then I don't know what to tell you.

So it wasn't that they had better athletes who beat your press all game long? Just that you lost your 7 footer? If you want to be a real contender you're going to come across teams full of future first round picks.

Playing in the A-10 will not let you out recruit the power schools. Im sorry but VCU does not have the same resources as bigger name schools. They just don't.

Like I said before, if you don't think he will leave you will be disappointed one day. That day could be very soon.

If they joined the Big East, they would have the same resources.

The same as they have now? If thats what you meant then no, they would have more money, exposure and membership in a power conference.

IMO, it shouldnt even be a debate. st louis should be number 11

(03-25-2013 06:04 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If he wasn't able to get recruits to come there to play Big East Basketball- it speaks volumes about big east basketball. It'd be like if Xavier or Butler couldn't recruit top level talent to play Big East ball- it'd speak volumes there as well. Or Creighton.

I disagree. Memphis recruiting said nothing about CUSA. Wake Forest and BC recruiting say nothing about the ACC. Northwestern and Nebraska recruiting say nothing about the BIG. DePaul, USF, SHU and Rutgers recruiting said nothing about the Big East.

(03-26-2013 11:07 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 06:04 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If he wasn't able to get recruits to come there to play Big East Basketball- it speaks volumes about big east basketball. It'd be like if Xavier or Butler couldn't recruit top level talent to play Big East ball- it'd speak volumes there as well. Or Creighton.

I disagree. Memphis recruiting said nothing about CUSA. Wake Forest and BC recruiting say nothing about the ACC. Northwestern and Nebraska recruiting say nothing about the BIG. DePaul, USF, SHU and Rutgers recruiting said nothing about the Big East.

But you see, those are known quanities. The question that has to be asked is where will the Big East fall in the recruiting jungle. Will we be there with the ACC or Big Ten or top SEC/Big 12/Pac 12- fighting for the top dog players- or will we fall back a bit recruiting wise. Can't tell based on this years recruits- we'll have to see when the 2014 and 2015 recruits start signing their LOI's.

(03-25-2013 04:16 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 04:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  Don't you get MORE pub for the school and league if you're a 12 seed making the Sweet 16 instead of a 4 or 5 seed making the Sweet 16?


My whole stance the entire time is: 12 teams gets you an extra tournament bid. Most of you seem to think you should bring in the best possible program so that they get the extra bid and do more for the league; I'm suggesting that since you'd get the extra bid with any of the realistic candidates, wouldn't you rather have the "extra bid" go you YOUR TEAM if you're a St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall kind of program that's always floating around the bubble?

You bring in the best possible program because you don't want your league to become the A10. While you may be right statistically that 12 brings you an extra bid, there are certainly no guarantees. All of the possible new members are not equal upgrades.

JP actually has a point. I used to use this analogy all the time back before the conference split. Think fo this: name the best reasonable basketball candidate who could be added to the Big East to improve the basketball league? Now, take that candidate, ans your self this: would either of those teams be better than a rejuvanated St. Johns, DePaul, or Seton Hall?

Silence.

If you add teams that give you everything else you need, good fanbase, television market, sustained history of being competitive (note I did not say they had to win every year, just being competitive), then one of two things will happen. That new team will be a a good team, or if they suck, they will allow one of your middle of the pack teams to move up. You win either way.

The thing es, and I say this all the time on expansion, too many teams are afraid to do it themselves. Too many conferences are afraid to strive to succeed. They all want to bring in someone else who has done it. And they always wait until they have done it. But no one wants to be the man out front (and this includes my own team at times). The teams who have been near the bottom, DePaul, Seton Hall, until 2 years ago St. johns, are the teams who coudl benefit from "middle of the pack" teams being added. If any one of those three return to past glory, it will all be worth it.

JP is right here. Or at least, he is not wrong.

(03-26-2013 02:08 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 11:07 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 06:04 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If he wasn't able to get recruits to come there to play Big East Basketball- it speaks volumes about big east basketball. It'd be like if Xavier or Butler couldn't recruit top level talent to play Big East ball- it'd speak volumes there as well. Or Creighton.

I disagree. Memphis recruiting said nothing about CUSA. Wake Forest and BC recruiting say nothing about the ACC. Northwestern and Nebraska recruiting say nothing about the BIG. DePaul, USF, SHU and Rutgers recruiting said nothing about the Big East.

But you see, those are known quanities. The question that has to be asked is where will the Big East fall in the recruiting jungle. Will we be there with the ACC or Big Ten or top SEC/Big 12/Pac 12- fighting for the top dog players- or will we fall back a bit recruiting wise. Can't tell based on this years recruits- we'll have to see when the 2014 and 2015 recruits start signing their LOI's.

The 2013 recruits are signed. Its probably too late to get in on many new 2014 recruits, as they have been recruited by schools for a year or 2 already. Maybe 2015 or later recruits. MU went to the FF in 2003, and the recruiting impact was not felt until the freshmen who joined for the 2005-2006 season came to school.

But again, to your earliest point (assuming VCU is in the BE), you still have not convinced me that Smart's recruiting (much less any individual coach) would say anything about the BE. And as for known commodities, the C7 are all known commodities. They will either continue to recruit as they have been recently, improve (hopefully SJU) or fall back. That has more to do with the coach personally than with the Big East.

Calipari recruited to a Memphis that was in a CUSA that lost MU, UofL, Cincy and DePaul. CUSA post BE raid was not a known commodity, and his recruiting said nothing about that league. The BIG is a known commodity, and Nebraska is in year 2. Is Nebraska suddenly competing against Duke and Carolina, or are they with the ACC or Big Ten or top SEC/Big 12/Pac 12- fighting for the top dog players? Or even second tier schools?