(03-22-2013 07:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:23 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 06:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  That's another reason why "NCAA Tournament success" is really "overrated" in our conference expansion discussions.

You're talking about 40 minutes of basketball, one game, one unique set of cirmcumstances.

For example,
VCU had an amazing run to the Final Four. Out of the five teams they beat, we'd take FOUR of the losers for our league if they didn't have football before we'd take VCU.

St. Mary's had one of the best players in the whole tournament miss an open look at the buzzer for the win yesterday. So they have the same NCAA tournament "success" this season as NC A&T.

Wisconsin (L) is a much better program than Ole Miss (W); New Mexico (L) is a better basketball program than La Salle (W). Cincinnati and K-State (L) have better basketball programs than Harvard (W).

I'll take 10 years of regular season data over "How did Team X do in one or two games in March?"

If it was just a 1 time only deal like George Mason, yes. But, VCU has done it for longer than just 1 year. What happened in NYC in the A10 tourney with them taking over with their fans- was HUGE.

No they haven't. They've failed to reach the sweet 16 outside of that final four run.

So has every candidate for expansion past 10. Heck, every candidate past #9.

I didn't say they did, just shooting down hyperbole that VCU has somehow proven their FF run wasn't a fluke.

(03-22-2013 07:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:23 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 06:08 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  That's another reason why "NCAA Tournament success" is really "overrated" in our conference expansion discussions.

You're talking about 40 minutes of basketball, one game, one unique set of cirmcumstances.

For example,
VCU had an amazing run to the Final Four. Out of the five teams they beat, we'd take FOUR of the losers for our league if they didn't have football before we'd take VCU.

St. Mary's had one of the best players in the whole tournament miss an open look at the buzzer for the win yesterday. So they have the same NCAA tournament "success" this season as NC A&T.

Wisconsin (L) is a much better program than Ole Miss (W); New Mexico (L) is a better basketball program than La Salle (W). Cincinnati and K-State (L) have better basketball programs than Harvard (W).

I'll take 10 years of regular season data over "How did Team X do in one or two games in March?"

If it was just a 1 time only deal like George Mason, yes. But, VCU has done it for longer than just 1 year. What happened in NYC in the A10 tourney with them taking over with their fans- was HUGE.

No they haven't. They've failed to reach the sweet 16 outside of that final four run.

So has every candidate for expansion past 10. Heck, every candidate past #9.

I didn't say they did, just shooting down hyperbole that VCU has somehow proven their FF run wasn't a fluke.

What in the sam hell do they need to do to prove that it wasn't a fluke.

(03-22-2013 07:49 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:23 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If it was just a 1 time only deal like George Mason, yes. But, VCU has done it for longer than just 1 year. What happened in NYC in the A10 tourney with them taking over with their fans- was HUGE.

No they haven't. They've failed to reach the sweet 16 outside of that final four run.

So has every candidate for expansion past 10. Heck, every candidate past #9.

I didn't say they did, just shooting down hyperbole that VCU has somehow proven their FF run wasn't a fluke.

What in the sam hell do they need to do to prove that it wasn't a fluke.

Make it past the first weekend. You know, actually win more than one game in a single tournament. I know i'm asking a lot but humor me.

(03-22-2013 07:53 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:49 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:23 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  No they haven't. They've failed to reach the sweet 16 outside of that final four run.

So has every candidate for expansion past 10. Heck, every candidate past #9.

I didn't say they did, just shooting down hyperbole that VCU has somehow proven their FF run wasn't a fluke.

What in the sam hell do they need to do to prove that it wasn't a fluke.

Make it past the first weekend. You know, actually win more than one game in a single tournament. I know i'm asking a lot but humor me.

So some thing that Dayton hasn't done in 29 tournaments now
or something that SLU has never done

gotcha!

(03-22-2013 07:57 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:53 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:49 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  So has every candidate for expansion past 10. Heck, every candidate past #9.

I didn't say they did, just shooting down hyperbole that VCU has somehow proven their FF run wasn't a fluke.

What in the sam hell do they need to do to prove that it wasn't a fluke.

Make it past the first weekend. You know, actually win more than one game in a single tournament. I know i'm asking a lot but humor me.

So some thing that Dayton hasn't done in 29 tournaments now
or something that SLU has never done

gotcha!

No one is talking about SLU or Dayton, stop changing the subject. YOU, yes YOU Stever said that VCU has proven that their FF run wasn't a fluke. I have said it was because they never made it to a sweet 16 outside of that single run.

If Dayton or SLU had the final 4 run instead of VCU- You would be all over that saying they need to be in now. Got to the be same standard. I'm sorry but going 56-15 and making tourney last 2 years has validated it to 99% of folks. Just guys like you who don't want them in the Big East don't see them as having validated it quite frankly.

VCU's Final Four run was an indication of their being a consistently competitive program. 63% winning percentage all time, 12 NCAA tournament appearances, 9 regular season conference titles. 5 NCAAs in the last 6 years, 6 in the last 10.

George Mason's run, by contrast, was a fluke. 53% winning percentage all time, 6 NCAA appearances, 4 regular season conference titles.

And speaking of Larranaga, Miami's season is a fluke. A team heavy on older seniors who have been playing together for 4-5 years goes on a tear, then graduates and the program goes back to the shadows. That's a fluke. And that's not what happened at VCU after 2011.

Yup VCU last year had the 9th youngest team in the country. They were a buck at the buzzer from beating Indiana to go to the Sweet Sixteen as a12 seed. Yes I know, shoulda coulda woulda- but that was a great accomplishment after losing much from the Final Four team.

(03-22-2013 08:17 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If Dayton or SLU had the final 4 run instead of VCU- You would be all over that saying they need to be in now. Got to the be same standard. I'm sorry but going 56-15 and making tourney last 2 years has validated it to 99% of folks. Just guys like you who don't want them in the Big East don't see them as having validated it quite frankly.

Same standards are being applied. Does VCU have the same size fan base as Dayton? Does VCU have the TV market as SLU? Oh and this is SLU's second trip in as many years to the NCAA as well. Won both the A-10 regular season and tournament championship. So they have on the court success and a big media market. I'd say that makes them a pretty clear pick. But once again here we are talking about another team than VCU which is what your argument is right here. "Don't talk about VCU talk about Dayton and St. Louis."

I'm done arguing about VCU. Yes, getting the 12:15 time slot proves that TV partners LOVE VCU.

If you have a round hole, why argue which piece is better between the triangle and the square?

Who cares?

You don't need either. Why don't we just chill out and wait for the round piece(s).

so let's get this right. SLU goes to tourney 2 years in a row and that's on the court sucess, but VCU going final 4 2 years ago and then winning tourney game next 2 years is a fluke. Bull crap. VCU DOMINATED the A10 tourney from fans perspective.

(03-22-2013 08:35 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I'm done arguing about VCU. Yes, getting the 12:15 time slot proves that TV partners LOVE VCU.

better than Butler getting a slot with 3 games going up against it at the same time. It's a stand alone slot.

(03-22-2013 08:36 PM)stever20 Wrote:  so let's get this right. SLU goes to tourney 2 years in a row and that's on the court sucess, but VCU going final 4 2 years ago and then winning tourney game next 2 years is a fluke. Bull crap. VCU DOMINATED the A10 tourney from fans perspective.

No one said they didn't have on the court success! We all know thats all VCU has and thats our point! You said that they proved that their run wasn't a fluke. Doing something more than once proves that that thing wasn't a fluke. They never make it out of the first weekend!

(03-22-2013 08:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 08:36 PM)stever20 Wrote:  so let's get this right. SLU goes to tourney 2 years in a row and that's on the court sucess, but VCU going final 4 2 years ago and then winning tourney game next 2 years is a fluke. Bull crap. VCU DOMINATED the A10 tourney from fans perspective.

No one said they didn't have on the court success! We all know thats all VCU has and thats our point! You said that they proved that their run wasn't a fluke. Doing something more than once proves that that thing wasn't a fluke. They never make it out of the first weekend!

You guys argue like an old married couple...or Bert and Ernie.

(03-22-2013 08:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 08:36 PM)stever20 Wrote:  so let's get this right. SLU goes to tourney 2 years in a row and that's on the court sucess, but VCU going final 4 2 years ago and then winning tourney game next 2 years is a fluke. Bull crap. VCU DOMINATED the A10 tourney from fans perspective.

No one said they didn't have on the court success! We all know thats all VCU has and thats our point! You said that they proved that their run wasn't a fluke. Doing something more than once proves that that thing wasn't a fluke. They never make it out of the first weekend!

Did you see the fan support at the A10 tourney. It's not just on court success.

(03-22-2013 08:57 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 08:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 08:36 PM)stever20 Wrote:  so let's get this right. SLU goes to tourney 2 years in a row and that's on the court sucess, but VCU going final 4 2 years ago and then winning tourney game next 2 years is a fluke. Bull crap. VCU DOMINATED the A10 tourney from fans perspective.

No one said they didn't have on the court success! We all know thats all VCU has and thats our point! You said that they proved that their run wasn't a fluke. Doing something more than once proves that that thing wasn't a fluke. They never make it out of the first weekend!

Did you see the fan support at the A10 tourney. It's not just on court success.

Maybe he was onto something, a10 is 6-0 so far

(03-22-2013 07:53 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:49 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:23 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  No they haven't. They've failed to reach the sweet 16 outside of that final four run.

So has every candidate for expansion past 10. Heck, every candidate past #9.

I didn't say they did, just shooting down hyperbole that VCU has somehow proven their FF run wasn't a fluke.

What in the sam hell do they need to do to prove that it wasn't a fluke.

Make it past the first weekend. You know, actually win more than one game in a single tournament. I know i'm asking a lot but humor me.

You know like St. John's has done continually since the Carnesecca era. LOL

(03-23-2013 09:24 AM)indydoug Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:53 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:49 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 07:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  So has every candidate for expansion past 10. Heck, every candidate past #9.

I didn't say they did, just shooting down hyperbole that VCU has somehow proven their FF run wasn't a fluke.

What in the sam hell do they need to do to prove that it wasn't a fluke.

Make it past the first weekend. You know, actually win more than one game in a single tournament. I know i'm asking a lot but humor me.

You know like St. John's has done continually since the Carnesecca era. LOL

We're already in. Worry about you're new conference.

Look, I wasn't trying to start a VCU vs whomever pissing match with this...

my point is, this isn't baseball, hockey, the NBA, etc. It's a one-shot deal. One bad game, a bad draw, one rimmed out shot at the buzzer or a half-court heave are the things that determine who wins and who loses; not "Who has the better program."

Georgetown's lost six straight NCAA games to double-digit seeds, all being favored by 5 or more seed lines. If there was a fantasy draft for a conference with every school without FBS football, Georgetown would probably be the #1 pick. Over Butler, VCU, Marquette, Gonzaga... teams with MORE NCAA Success, but not the complete package of quality of program, TV market, fan base, NCAA performance, academics, facilities, etc, etc, etc.

Over a decade of regular season games, you can see who's good and who's better. In a one-shot NCAA Tournament, it's too small of a sample size.