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(12-19-2012 12:09 AM)JPWMU Wrote:  Our church has a men's group that focuses on responsibility, accountability and living as the Bible teaches about men's/father's roles. We have had lots of discussions about how our society is affected by absent and distant fathers.

I'm curious how many of these mass murders come from families of divorce or just don't have strong male role models in their lives. Lots if pain, anger and guilt stem from this.

There's more to the discussion than just access to guns or mental health availability. I have a suspicion that it could be related back to my original point, but its just my own theory. Haven't done tons of research on it. I don't hear anyone talking about this at a national level.....

Regarding the previous posts: I knew there would be some mocking going on. A lot of people don't believe in God or are mad at Him. I was there not too long ago. There are lots of people who are hostile towards people who speak about their faith. Also, I understand evil has abounded since the beginning and has been perpetrated in much larger scales, that wasn't the point, that's an obvious fact.

Your words....."I know I'll be mocked"

"because my goal in life is to be a martyr".



Face it, it's late there, you got into the Sherry, and now you want to be a martyr. Sorry pal, that west side of the state bs won't fly here.

Quote:I'm curious how many of these mass murders come from families of divorce or just don't have strong male role models in their lives. Lots if pain, anger and guilt stem from this.

You self rigteous, sanctamonious azzholes.

(12-19-2012 12:14 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Your words....."I know I'll be mocked"

"because my goal in life is to be a martyr".



Face it, it's late there, you got into the Cherry, and now you want to be a martyr. Sorry pal, that west side of the state bs won't fly here.

Not wanting to be a martyr, just offering my perspective.

It is late, been working too much and preparing for a long trip this weekend to visit family for the holiday. What is "west side of the state bs"?

You're perspective is self serving bs to make you feel better about yourself, not this issue.

Spare me. I'll word it more strongly if you would like.

(12-19-2012 12:16 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

Quote:I'm curious how many of these mass murders come from families of divorce or just don't have strong male role models in their lives. Lots if pain, anger and guilt stem from this.

You self rigteous, sanctamonious azzholes.

I know because I've been there. I'm thankful for the men that stepped into my life when others abandoned their responsibility. You think this has no affect on young men in our culture?

Not the question here, your ASSUMPTION is the question here. Go crush it until you hit twelve, do us a favor.

(12-19-2012 12:21 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  You're perspective is self serving bs to make you feel better about yourself, not this issue.

Spare me. I'll word it more strongly if you would like.

JP wouldn't be a martyr if you weren't burning him at the stake DB.

I love Jesus and want to be like him. Obviously that's self-serving and impossible. But if you keep trying, it's everyone else-serving.

Separation of church and state is imperative, but the intentional vacuum is creating a dark void in our country as well.

I know where DB is coming from though. I was raised in the west Michigan sanctimonious tradition. Every good effort has its failings. But I appreciate the effort.

I don't think you can have freedom of religion with religion in our government. You're right, I was burning him at the stake because I saw red at those broad, righteous swipes taken at situations that aren't that "simple".

I probably should have asked for clarification...then gone off on him.

Quote:I know where DB is coming from though. I was raised in the west Michigan sanctimonious tradition. Every good effort has its failings. But I appreciate the effort.

It's a great way to be raised and raise, don't get me wrong. I kind of adhere to that character's line in "Great Expectations" when it comes to that.

(12-19-2012 10:34 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  You're right, I was burning him at the stake because I saw red at those broad, righteous swipes taken at situations that aren't that "simple".

Did I say it was a simple situation or the only solution to the problem? I think it's a contributing factor. Do you?

I think we all agree that it starts with the parents and that's my main point, especially fathers.

Another unfair generalization by the self rigteous one.

What do you say when a mass murder comes from a "model household"?

(12-19-2012 11:46 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Another unfair generalization by the self rigteous one.

What do you say when a mass murder comes from a "model household"?

DB, you continue to attack and avoid my question.....

A quick Google search produces these results: Link Link Link Link

Yet the focus is assault rifles, extended magazines, mental health and video games.

I'm not sure there is a "model household". Any mass murder, regardless, is sad. All I'm saying is I think it's a factor that is brushed under the rug.

I think the factor is total rationalization and deflection by you. There, we disagree.

It's unfortunate that this thread has turned into a pro/con religious discussion in this case. Yes, religious principles can be a factor. Good, healthy family structure can be a factor. A person's environment is a huge factor on a developing young adult.

In my eyes, this horrid massacre boiled down to one thing ... this was a young man who had not only been diagnosed with Asperger's (which has no connection with violence, BTW), but also had been diagnosed with several personality disorders, according to his uncle. He was not considered to be a threat, and was not disturbed enough to warrant institutionalization of any kind. His mother had followed through with therapy and medication suggestions. She was home schooling him because of his discomfort in interacting with his peers in high school. He was described by neighbors as a loner, extremely remote, introverted, and without friends. His mother had done everything possible to help him. But he continued to fall through the cracks of the system. Truth be told, there are MANY people like this, who can't get the kind of help they need, because they are not considered severe enough.

The shooter developed an interest in guns, which his mother collected. She encouraged him to respect firearms, and made sure he knew how to handle them safely. They sometimes went to the gun range together. The guns were always locked in a gun safe at home. In the meantime, the son became obsessed with war video games, like Call of Duty and World of Warcraft. (I've seen the ads for Call of Duty. I can't watch them. Not when a guy with a gun is mowing down scads of people with his assault rifle.) If the son wasn't being home schooled, he was playing the games. He asked to move down into the basement, where he had a bunker-like, windowless room. He covered the walls with war and violent video game posters. He bought camo suits. His mother was glad that he was showing an interest in something.

And then the unthinkable happened, due to a sick young man who didn't get the right kind of help he desperately needed.

It turned into that debate because he's all aflutter about potential gun control, so they cut to god to deflect. It's their M.O.

Has anyone read how he got his hands on the guns if they were kept under lock and key in the house?

(12-20-2012 02:24 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  It turned into that debate because he's all aflutter about potential gun control, so they cut to god to deflect. It's their M.O.

At the same time...if his mom would've collected bobble-head dolls, NOT trained him at a shooting range, and played Super Mario Bros. with him-- this may have been avoided. He'd probably be bitching at a Brian Persky-type on a web board in his moms basement right about now.

Quote:It turned into that debate because he's all aflutter about potential gun control, so they cut to god to deflect.

What are the expected outcomes with "gun control"?

(12-20-2012 02:25 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Has anyone read how he got his hands on the guns if they were kept under lock and key in the house?

Yep. His mom was out of town from Tues until Thurs night last week. He was alone in the house. That gave him time to find the key and make his plans to be the "war hero."

(12-20-2012 03:50 PM)Whinny1 Wrote:  

(12-20-2012 02:25 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Has anyone read how he got his hands on the guns if they were kept under lock and key in the house?

Yep. His mom was out of town from Tues until Thurs night last week. He was alone in the house. That gave him time to find the key and make his plans to be the "war hero."

Well...that's certainly a variable that could have been controlled by someone else. Unfortunately the mom ended up paying the ultimate price. (wishing she took the key with her...so sad)

(12-20-2012 02:35 PM)ESSSS Wrote:  

Quote:It turned into that debate because he's all aflutter about potential gun control, so they cut to god to deflect.

What are the expected outcomes with "gun control"?

The gun control proposal I hear of most often is abolishing the sale of assault-type weapons with large magazines, except for law enforcement and the military. Penalties for sale and possession would include large fines and jail time. Get them out of the hands of civilians, period. The expected outcome would be to make mass shootings resulting in dozens of deaths much less likely. Having to reload frequently would have allowed many more of the Sandy Hook children to run and escape. The same with the Aurora CO theater patrons.

But it's not just about gun control. We have to find a way to better locate, serve, and treat those with personality disorders and mental illness.