i think it's going to be a shift in public perception of letting kids play football that changes it. It won't go away, but all the evidence is there that football is bad for you. Somebody is going to figure out a way to study junior high or high school football players (maybe doing non-contrasted MRIs, which are risk free) and they are going to find a difference between the brains of the football players and the non-contact sports players.

After that, fewer kids playing, less talent, less interest. Right now a lot of football fans are in the denial stage. It will take 5-10 years to change the perception, but it will surely happen.

blood



sport

(12-03-2012 10:24 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:19 AM)fsquid Wrote:  get rid of the helmets

That or go back to one you fold and put in your pocket.

Yup....That would eliminate a ton of the concussions that occur...

Sounds crazy but it is sooooooooooo true...Let that bare head catch a couple of knees and elbows and it will never be used (on purpose) as a ram again.

(12-03-2012 04:07 PM)jgardne Wrote:  i think it's going to be a shift in public perception of letting kids play football that changes it. It won't go away, but all the evidence is there that football is bad for you. Somebody is going to figure out a way to study junior high or high school football players (maybe doing non-contrasted MRIs, which are risk free) and they are going to find a difference between the brains of the football players and the non-contact sports players.

After that, fewer kids playing, less talent, less interest. Right now a lot of football fans are in the denial stage. It will take 5-10 years to change the perception, but it will surely happen.

I agree with you on fans being in denial. There is no bigger football fan than I, primarily NFL, but I can see the writing on the wall. It is only a matter of time.

(12-03-2012 04:12 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:24 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:19 AM)fsquid Wrote:  get rid of the helmets

That or go back to one you fold and put in your pocket.

Yup....That would eliminate a ton of the concussions that occur...

Sounds crazy but it is sooooooooooo true...Let that bare head catch a couple of knees and elbows and it will never be used (on purpose) as a ram again.

That is the best idea of all time. Give players that are 10X faster and outweigh Alex Karras and Deacon Jones by 50-75 pounds, LESS padding.

"You can make even more money by keeping it illegal!"

No, much more money and less expense, if it was legal. However, my advise to all would be to leave it alone, legal or not.

(12-03-2012 04:42 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 04:12 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:24 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:19 AM)fsquid Wrote:  get rid of the helmets

That or go back to one you fold and put in your pocket.

Yup....That would eliminate a ton of the concussions that occur...

Sounds crazy but it is sooooooooooo true...Let that bare head catch a couple of knees and elbows and it will never be used (on purpose) as a ram again.

That is the best idea of all time. Give players that are 10X faster and outweigh Alex Karras and Deacon Jones by 50-75 pounds, LESS padding.

the problem is shot to the head right? Get rid of the pads and make tackles above the shoulders illegal.

(12-03-2012 03:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 02:54 PM)TG4 Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:08 AM)Stammers Wrote:  The answer may turn out to be never; but who knows? These studies are a tip of the iceberg, and I have no doubt that the more studies they conduct; the more they are going to be able to conclude that football causes brain damage at an early age. 33 out of the 34 deceased football players that were examined, had brain damage.

Brain Damage

You folks have accused me of suffering from this malady for years. Now all of a sudden you want to fix it?

These studies are very recent and are dealing with the first batch of players that are allowing their brains to be examined. The modern football helmet (with a facemask) was invented in 1955. Since then there have been a number of improvements which include using different polymers and inflatable padding.

It seems that bigger, heavier, faster players have been catching up to and passing the technology. What do lawmakers do if 480 out of the next 500 players studied have brain damage by their mid 50's?

I love the NFL, college football and boxing as much as anyone, and obviously there is a lot of money involved. Having said that, if the data proves conclusively that football causes brain damage; how many solutions are there?

The culture is going to have to change. I would guess that within 5-10 years max, the size of the helmets will be a full 3" diameter bigger than they are now (with the only reason they're not already is because they're ugly); and there will be no hitting with the helmet allowed whatsoever.

Again, helmets don't really protect against concussive brain injury. They are very good at protecting against cranial fractures and, given the way the way the game is played, if players weren't wearing them, they could very well suffer pretty horrible head injuries.

However a bigger helmet is just going to increase the amount of velocity that the head can absorb without damaging the skull. Doing that would probably do more to increase the frequency and severity of concussions and sub-concussive brain trauma, since the brain could possibly be moving faster when it runs into the skull. One thing to realize, is that it's not even necessary to receive a blow to the head to get a concussion, any sudden change in velocity to the head could result in brain injury.

(12-03-2012 04:42 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 04:12 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:24 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:19 AM)fsquid Wrote:  get rid of the helmets

That or go back to one you fold and put in your pocket.

Yup....That would eliminate a ton of the concussions that occur...

Sounds crazy but it is sooooooooooo true...Let that bare head catch a couple of knees and elbows and it will never be used (on purpose) as a ram again.

That is the best idea of all time. Give players that are 10X faster and outweigh Alex Karras and Deacon Jones by 50-75 pounds, LESS padding.

Guys get a ton more brave with that helmet...ASK RUGBY PLAYERS...

At any level have guys play with and without pads and the collisions get much more violent the more padding the people have.

(12-03-2012 05:12 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 03:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 02:54 PM)TG4 Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:08 AM)Stammers Wrote:  The answer may turn out to be never; but who knows? These studies are a tip of the iceberg, and I have no doubt that the more studies they conduct; the more they are going to be able to conclude that football causes brain damage at an early age. 33 out of the 34 deceased football players that were examined, had brain damage.

Brain Damage

You folks have accused me of suffering from this malady for years. Now all of a sudden you want to fix it?

These studies are very recent and are dealing with the first batch of players that are allowing their brains to be examined. The modern football helmet (with a facemask) was invented in 1955. Since then there have been a number of improvements which include using different polymers and inflatable padding.

It seems that bigger, heavier, faster players have been catching up to and passing the technology. What do lawmakers do if 480 out of the next 500 players studied have brain damage by their mid 50's?

I love the NFL, college football and boxing as much as anyone, and obviously there is a lot of money involved. Having said that, if the data proves conclusively that football causes brain damage; how many solutions are there?

The culture is going to have to change. I would guess that within 5-10 years max, the size of the helmets will be a full 3" diameter bigger than they are now (with the only reason they're not already is because they're ugly); and there will be no hitting with the helmet allowed whatsoever.

Again, helmets don't really protect against concussive brain injury. They are very good at protecting against cranial fractures and, given the way the way the game is played, if players weren't wearing them, they could very well suffer pretty horrible head injuries.

However a bigger helmet is just going to increase the amount of velocity that the head can absorb without damaging the skull. Doing that would probably do more to increase the frequency and severity of concussions and sub-concussive brain trauma, since the brain could possibly be moving faster when it runs into the skull. One thing to realize, is that it's not even necessary to receive a blow to the head to get a concussion, any sudden change in velocity to the head could result in brain injury.

Exactly guys aren't going to run into other players 100 miles per hour if they have less padding...They know they will get hurt...The collisions would be much less violent with less padding...

Much less exiting game also though.

I met a guy in St. Louis earlier this year who had two sons play major college football. One at KU and the other at Mizzou. He said they both suffered from headaches during their career that lasted until 3 or 4 years after they graduated. My 10 year old was listening and I was happy he decided to not play football and to concentrate on baseball this year.

So what you are saying is that we really don't need to be in one of the 4-5 BCS conferences in the future because basketball will be where the money is, not football?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At what point do players simply become too big and strong to keep from doing serious damage to each other? Can technology possibly keep up?

Football is bigger than ever, in several senses. Bear Bryant's 1966 undefeated Alabama team had only 19 players who weighed more than 200 pounds. The heaviest weighed 223. The linemen averaged 194. The quarterback weighed 177. Today, many high school teams are much bigger.

In 1980, only three NFL players weighed 300 or more pounds. In 2011, according to pro-football-reference.com, there were 352, including three 350-pounders. Thirty-one of the NFL's 32 offensive lines averaged more than 300.


http://m.gosanangelo.com/news/2012/aug/0...-too-fast/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(12-03-2012 05:03 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 04:42 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 04:12 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:24 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:19 AM)fsquid Wrote:  get rid of the helmets

That or go back to one you fold and put in your pocket.

Yup....That would eliminate a ton of the concussions that occur...

Sounds crazy but it is sooooooooooo true...Let that bare head catch a couple of knees and elbows and it will never be used (on purpose) as a ram again.

That is the best idea of all time. Give players that are 10X faster and outweigh Alex Karras and Deacon Jones by 50-75 pounds, LESS padding.

the problem is shot to the head right? Get rid of the pads and make tackles above the shoulders illegal.

That can't work. It's not like rugby where everyone is bunched up. You have 200 plus pound running backs/wide receivers lined up 25 yards from each other, with a running start, going after a ball that's in the air.

Simple answer.

Start enforcing testing for Steroids and HGH in Jr. High School. Right now it's all talk in both baseball and football.

Teddy Roosevelt, who was certainly no wimp, forced rule changes in early part of the 20th century when players started dying directly on the football field, otherwise the game was going to get banned. Today games can be called off simply at the hint of lightening, and people understand that that has to be case - it's not worth a kid getting killed and the lawsuit that will come as a result. Initially, I wasn't for the rule changes that are coming but I am coming around, otherwise the NCAA and NFL are going to be in court constantly, and I don't just mean in civil suits - there will be laws changed to deal with these problems if someone doesn't get a handle on it.

(12-03-2012 05:49 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:12 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 03:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 02:54 PM)TG4 Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 10:08 AM)Stammers Wrote:  The answer may turn out to be never; but who knows? These studies are a tip of the iceberg, and I have no doubt that the more studies they conduct; the more they are going to be able to conclude that football causes brain damage at an early age. 33 out of the 34 deceased football players that were examined, had brain damage.

Brain Damage

You folks have accused me of suffering from this malady for years. Now all of a sudden you want to fix it?

These studies are very recent and are dealing with the first batch of players that are allowing their brains to be examined. The modern football helmet (with a facemask) was invented in 1955. Since then there have been a number of improvements which include using different polymers and inflatable padding.

It seems that bigger, heavier, faster players have been catching up to and passing the technology. What do lawmakers do if 480 out of the next 500 players studied have brain damage by their mid 50's?

I love the NFL, college football and boxing as much as anyone, and obviously there is a lot of money involved. Having said that, if the data proves conclusively that football causes brain damage; how many solutions are there?

The culture is going to have to change. I would guess that within 5-10 years max, the size of the helmets will be a full 3" diameter bigger than they are now (with the only reason they're not already is because they're ugly); and there will be no hitting with the helmet allowed whatsoever.

Again, helmets don't really protect against concussive brain injury. They are very good at protecting against cranial fractures and, given the way the way the game is played, if players weren't wearing them, they could very well suffer pretty horrible head injuries.

However a bigger helmet is just going to increase the amount of velocity that the head can absorb without damaging the skull. Doing that would probably do more to increase the frequency and severity of concussions and sub-concussive brain trauma, since the brain could possibly be moving faster when it runs into the skull. One thing to realize, is that it's not even necessary to receive a blow to the head to get a concussion, any sudden change in velocity to the head could result in brain injury.

Exactly guys aren't going to run into other players 100 miles per hour if they have less padding...They know they will get hurt...The collisions would be much less violent with less padding...

Much less exiting game also though.

So you for serious think this is a good idea?

(12-04-2012 07:35 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:49 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:12 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 03:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 02:54 PM)TG4 Wrote:  You folks have accused me of suffering from this malady for years. Now all of a sudden you want to fix it?

These studies are very recent and are dealing with the first batch of players that are allowing their brains to be examined. The modern football helmet (with a facemask) was invented in 1955. Since then there have been a number of improvements which include using different polymers and inflatable padding.

It seems that bigger, heavier, faster players have been catching up to and passing the technology. What do lawmakers do if 480 out of the next 500 players studied have brain damage by their mid 50's?

I love the NFL, college football and boxing as much as anyone, and obviously there is a lot of money involved. Having said that, if the data proves conclusively that football causes brain damage; how many solutions are there?

The culture is going to have to change. I would guess that within 5-10 years max, the size of the helmets will be a full 3" diameter bigger than they are now (with the only reason they're not already is because they're ugly); and there will be no hitting with the helmet allowed whatsoever.

Again, helmets don't really protect against concussive brain injury. They are very good at protecting against cranial fractures and, given the way the way the game is played, if players weren't wearing them, they could very well suffer pretty horrible head injuries.

However a bigger helmet is just going to increase the amount of velocity that the head can absorb without damaging the skull. Doing that would probably do more to increase the frequency and severity of concussions and sub-concussive brain trauma, since the brain could possibly be moving faster when it runs into the skull. One thing to realize, is that it's not even necessary to receive a blow to the head to get a concussion, any sudden change in velocity to the head could result in brain injury.

Exactly guys aren't going to run into other players 100 miles per hour if they have less padding...They know they will get hurt...The collisions would be much less violent with less padding...

Much less exiting game also though.

So you for serious think this is a good idea?

No...But that is the only thing that will lower the risk of concussions. That would force behavioral change due to the immediate consequences.

We have seen time and again that players will put their future at risk just to be the best right now. Whether that is through lowering your head in football, shooting roids or shooting HGH. Guys are going to do whatever it takes to get an advantage.

(12-04-2012 08:01 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(12-04-2012 07:35 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:49 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:12 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 03:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  These studies are very recent and are dealing with the first batch of players that are allowing their brains to be examined. The modern football helmet (with a facemask) was invented in 1955. Since then there have been a number of improvements which include using different polymers and inflatable padding.

It seems that bigger, heavier, faster players have been catching up to and passing the technology. What do lawmakers do if 480 out of the next 500 players studied have brain damage by their mid 50's?

I love the NFL, college football and boxing as much as anyone, and obviously there is a lot of money involved. Having said that, if the data proves conclusively that football causes brain damage; how many solutions are there?

The culture is going to have to change. I would guess that within 5-10 years max, the size of the helmets will be a full 3" diameter bigger than they are now (with the only reason they're not already is because they're ugly); and there will be no hitting with the helmet allowed whatsoever.

Again, helmets don't really protect against concussive brain injury. They are very good at protecting against cranial fractures and, given the way the way the game is played, if players weren't wearing them, they could very well suffer pretty horrible head injuries.

However a bigger helmet is just going to increase the amount of velocity that the head can absorb without damaging the skull. Doing that would probably do more to increase the frequency and severity of concussions and sub-concussive brain trauma, since the brain could possibly be moving faster when it runs into the skull. One thing to realize, is that it's not even necessary to receive a blow to the head to get a concussion, any sudden change in velocity to the head could result in brain injury.

Exactly guys aren't going to run into other players 100 miles per hour if they have less padding...They know they will get hurt...The collisions would be much less violent with less padding...

Much less exiting game also though.

So you for serious think this is a good idea?

No...But that is the only thing that will lower the risk of concussions. That would force behavioral change due to the immediate consequences.

We have seen time and again that players will put their future at risk just to be the best right now. Whether that is through lowering your head in football, shooting roids or shooting HGH. Guys are going to do whatever it takes to get an advantage.

What happens when a wide receiver and a safety meet at the ball when both have been running at full speed for 40 yards from opposite directions? How do you control that in any way?

I think they should spend more time fining players for not wearing their helmets properly.
Half the time they have 1 snap on their chin strap buttoned. They dont air up the pads inside the helmets properly.
Every time a player loses their helmets they should be removed for the rest of the game. The 2nd time you lose a helmet in a year, you not only get ejected from the game, but you also get suspended for the next game.