No, the worst case scenario for UNC would be if after FSU/Clemson leave- the rest stay- and UNC is stuck politically in ACC with a mediocre contract.

(05-29-2012 02:37 PM)stever20 Wrote:  No, the worst case scenario for UNC would be if after FSU/Clemson leave- the rest stay- and UNC is stuck politically in ACC with a mediocre contract.

Your abject hatred for the ACC is blinding you. You've literally spent all day on this fixation.

For the record, in that case, UNC would be stuck in a team league it founded and loves with all of its most beloved/hated rivals.

The ACC will be just fine without FSU or Clemson if necessary.
FSU is historically the 4th best athletic department in the ACC and Clemson has dropped like a rock in those rankings since the last expansion.

(05-29-2012 02:37 PM)stever20 Wrote:  No, the worst case scenario for UNC would be if after FSU/Clemson leave- the rest stay- and UNC is stuck politically in ACC with a mediocre contract.

Don't know that for sure without seeing the contract. If only those two school left, their contract would not decrease, in my opinion. Costs ESPN the same either way. MAy decrease because of less conference games to show, but not significantly. Besides, UNC will not stick around if the money decreases too much. UNC will suprise folks with their decision when/if all this goes down.

(05-29-2012 02:42 PM)Orangemen Wrote:  

(05-29-2012 02:37 PM)stever20 Wrote:  No, the worst case scenario for UNC would be if after FSU/Clemson leave- the rest stay- and UNC is stuck politically in ACC with a mediocre contract.

Your abject hatred for the ACC is blinding you. You've literally spent all day on this fixation.

For the record, in that case, UNC would be stuck in a team league it founded and loves with all of its most beloved/hated rivals.

Yeah- a league with Miami, Georgia Tech, Duke, Wake, NC St, VT, UVA, Md, Pitt, Syr, and BC- 5/11 came from the Big East. If expand up to 14- 7/13 would be from Big East.

(05-29-2012 02:44 PM)samandrea Wrote:  

(05-29-2012 02:37 PM)stever20 Wrote:  No, the worst case scenario for UNC would be if after FSU/Clemson leave- the rest stay- and UNC is stuck politically in ACC with a mediocre contract.

Don't know that for sure without seeing the contract. If only those two school left, their contract would not decrease, in my opinion. Costs ESPN the same either way. MAy decrease because of less conference games to show, but not significantly. Besides, UNC will not stick around if the money decreases too much. UNC will suprise folks with their decision when/if all this goes down.

How does it not go down after two out of the three football "power programs" in the ACC have left? Games that those teams would have played in are not easily replaced by the rest of the programs in the ACC.

We have seen the numbers laid out by Neil here. FSU is by far the dominant team when it comes to being presented on ESPN's tier 1 programming. Even with all those top tier presentations they are still at the top of presentations on tier 2. The loss of FSU in itself is huge and likely causes some sort of decrease but if Clemson goes with they are at the top end of presentations on tier 2 programming as well with a decent showing on tier 1 programming. I am sorry but the ACC does not have programs that can fill that void and they do not have options outside of the ACC that can either.

That is why on the business side of things, the departure of FSU is huge. That is why even Forbes magazine thinks that departure could kill the ACC.

Losing fsu and clemson would be devastating but if that's it the acc would live Ok as football league #5. Yet, the could go the eastern seaboard and hoops distinction. If the acc losses are limited, no more than 3 school's and none being in va or nc, than the big east is the league that is toast. The acc will be toast if any nc or va school ever leave.

(05-29-2012 02:54 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(05-29-2012 02:44 PM)samandrea Wrote:  

(05-29-2012 02:37 PM)stever20 Wrote:  No, the worst case scenario for UNC would be if after FSU/Clemson leave- the rest stay- and UNC is stuck politically in ACC with a mediocre contract.

Don't know that for sure without seeing the contract. If only those two school left, their contract would not decrease, in my opinion. Costs ESPN the same either way. MAy decrease because of less conference games to show, but not significantly. Besides, UNC will not stick around if the money decreases too much. UNC will suprise folks with their decision when/if all this goes down.

How does it not go down after two out of the three football "power programs" in the ACC have left? Games that those teams would have played in are not easily replaced by the rest of the programs in the ACC.

We have seen the numbers laid out by Neil here. FSU is by far the dominant team when it comes to being presented on ESPN's tier 1 programming. Even with all those top tier presentations they are still at the top of presentations on tier 2. The loss of FSU in itself is huge and likely causes some sort of decrease but if Clemson goes with they are at the top end of presentations on tier 2 programming as well with a decent showing on tier 1 programming. I am sorry but the ACC does not have programs that can fill that void and they do not have options outside of the ACC that can either.

That is why on the business side of things, the departure of FSU is huge. That is why even Forbes magazine thinks that departure could kill the ACC.

It very well could, however, without reading the contract, wouldn't know how much the money drops off. Remember as many have said, ACC only added two schools because they were anticipating losing 2. ESPN would know this as well. At any rate, if money drops off too much from these two school leaving, UNC will do what is best for them. They know how much money they can live with and if it goes below that, they will leave as well.

(05-29-2012 03:01 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Losing fsu and clemson would be devastating but if that's it the acc would live Ok as football league #5. Yet, the could go the eastern seaboard and hoops distinction. If the acc losses are limited, no more than 3 school's and none being in va or nc, than the big east is the league that is toast. The acc will be toast if any nc or va school ever leave.

Virginia Tech being the third football power of the ACC, how would they feel losing the SOS of FSU and Clemson to the ACC schedule? Are they going to be "committed" to the ACC? Does the state of Virginia want it's football power to be weakened so that those in state players begin to be pilfered in higher numbers?

Agree. The Schools UNC,FSU,Clemson,VT leaving the ACC would kill it off. Way too much firepower to lose. Sure a few of the others could try to carry the banner but very few schools could fill the void and most aren't leaving their current BCS home. I doubt Pitt and 'Cuse would jump with that fallout. Pitt and Syracuse would holdout for a different invite. The rest would be picked up by the SEC and Big 10 and BE.

va tech would be the key post clemson and fsu leaving. I'm sure they sec would say we will answer phone calls from school's but this isn't a bad setup for va tech to dominate.

acc -14

bc, uconn, cuse, rutgers, maryland, pitt, miami

uva, va tech, unc, duke, nc state, wake, ga tech


Of course, i'm assuming the big 12 stays at 12 and the big 10 doesn't offer anybody, i.e. maybe rutgers and maryland. I do think the acc would need to immediately invite uconn and rutgers post losing clemson and fsu, standing still at 12 would be crazy.

I don't see VT, GT, and other footballers seeing as the answer UConn and Rutgers. Not at all.

(05-29-2012 02:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-29-2012 02:42 PM)Orangemen Wrote:  

(05-29-2012 02:37 PM)stever20 Wrote:  No, the worst case scenario for UNC would be if after FSU/Clemson leave- the rest stay- and UNC is stuck politically in ACC with a mediocre contract.

Your abject hatred for the ACC is blinding you. You've literally spent all day on this fixation.

For the record, in that case, UNC would be stuck in a team league it founded and loves with all of its most beloved/hated rivals.

Yeah- a league with Miami, Georgia Tech, Duke, Wake, NC St, VT, UVA, Md, Pitt, Syr, and BC- 5/11 came from the Big East. If expand up to 14- 7/13 would be from Big East.

Yes...stuck in a league it founded with its traditional rivals....

uconn and rutgers would be phase 1, this would be if i'm running the acc post clemson and fsu leaving. Actually, i take that back, my first move at 12 team acc post fsu and clemson leaving would be to reach out to the big 12 in an attempt to get the football only concept going at either 24 - 28 teams. Since both the big 12 and acc would be at 12, i don't think it would be hard to put together. If they have no interest, i call the pac 12, who i doubt have interest but worth a call. THan if both leagues shot down the concept, i invite uconn and rutgers to get to 14. I would also invite nd without football and gtown to get to 16.

atlantic: bc, uconn, cuse, rutgers, maryland, pitt, nd, gtown

coastal: uva, va tech, unc, duke, nc state, wake, g tech, miami


-might also have to add nova and st john's which would put maryland in the coastal.

As I said- the football schools like VT aren't going to want Rutgers or UConn. Only takes like 3 to veto- VT, Miami, GT would do that in a heartbeat.

I don't think staying at 12 does any good, might as well bring in uconn and rutgers, flagship school's needed in the acc and see if an improved conference will grow college football in the region + hurt the conference below the acc in the pecking order. Even post losing clemson and fsu, the acc has valuable properties that could make it worthwhile to stay. I would view it like the big 12 last year, maybe the acc could hire the retiring big 12 commish for another year on the job too.

(05-29-2012 10:15 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  GTS gets to have fun with some signatures...

Precisely.