(09-08-2010 01:52 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have sort of the same feeling about this as I do about the mosque near Ground Zero.

They have the right to do it, but it is not a very prudent thing to do. Concurrent with every right is the obligation to exercise it responsibly. We've sort of lost sight of this recently, in the rush by nearly everyone to claim every "right" imaginable. But it's still there, and we ignore it at our peril.

Exactly. I feel compelled to speak out against both because they are stupid, insensitive things to do, and it reflects badly on the respective communities. But, I don't think we should intervene to prevent them. The Obama administration seems to think one is ok and not the other, which seems hypocritical to me. But, on the issue of the book burning, I think they are right to condemn it.

(09-07-2010 03:17 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(09-07-2010 02:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  This is the kind of thing that drives moderate Muslims toward the extreme end.

If they'd be inclined to blow **** up because someone burned a f'n Qur'an, then they weren't too damn moderate to begin with.

+1

Since when do liberals acknowledge their own hypocrisy? They believe that the constitution is a living document that changes with time. They would argue that the original intent of the founders cannot be culled from their writings. They see gray area in every issue, its why they can flip-flop like a hooked fish, their hypocrisy, not their concern. When do the liberals care about troop safety, when someone threatens to burn a Koran, not when 100,000s of papers are wikileaked. These liberals a hopeless. I say let them continue to allow anyone to burn anything. If you can burn the US flag, nothing is more sacred than that, in my eyes.

Yeah... I love how we're all trying to walk so carefully around the "religion of peace" so they don't want to kill us...

and don't get me wrong... I think they're stupid for this publicity stunt,... but in THIS country, you clearly have the right to be stupid

Exactly, Should they do it? probably not, but when has that ever stopped anybody.

Have you ever seen a self-aware liberal?

(09-08-2010 02:20 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(09-08-2010 01:52 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have sort of the same feeling about this as I do about the mosque near Ground Zero.

They have the right to do it, but it is not a very prudent thing to do. Concurrent with every right is the obligation to exercise it responsibly. We've sort of lost sight of this recently, in the rush by nearly everyone to claim every "right" imaginable. But it's still there, and we ignore it at our peril.

Exactly. I feel compelled to speak out against both because they are stupid, insensitive things to do, and it reflects badly on the respective communities. But, I don't think we should intervene to prevent them. The Obama administration seems to think one is ok and not the other, which seems hypocritical to me. But, on the issue of the book burning, I think they are right to condemn it.

While there have certainly been some crazy zealots, I haven't seen any protests burning the Qu'ran or threats to kill all muslims everywhere as a result of the Ground Zero Mosque. This is perhaps the closest thing we have seen, and it has been met with rebuke from just about everywhere... unlike the mosque where the President came out in support of it....

ETA: I've changed my mind. The President should address this HEAD ON. He should say that just like the Ground Zero Mosque, people have the right to do things that others find offensive. It may not be the wisest of things, and people are certainly free to peacefully protest... but threats of violence against people for exercising their rights in this countrt are beyond the pale and should be denounced from all corners of the world... ESPECIALLY from the Muslim majority who are the religion of peace. While I understand that this would not be acceptable in your country, it is precisely this freedom that many Muslims are seeking in the ground Zero Mosque. In THIS country, If you want to be accepted, you must be willing to accept.

It's a PERFECT opportunity to teach the world about Democracy and religious freedom.... about tolerance and living together in peace... and if the President won't do it, then someone in a position of relative strength like John McCain should.

(09-08-2010 03:43 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-08-2010 02:20 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(09-08-2010 01:52 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have sort of the same feeling about this as I do about the mosque near Ground Zero.

They have the right to do it, but it is not a very prudent thing to do. Concurrent with every right is the obligation to exercise it responsibly. We've sort of lost sight of this recently, in the rush by nearly everyone to claim every "right" imaginable. But it's still there, and we ignore it at our peril.

Exactly. I feel compelled to speak out against both because they are stupid, insensitive things to do, and it reflects badly on the respective communities. But, I don't think we should intervene to prevent them. The Obama administration seems to think one is ok and not the other, which seems hypocritical to me. But, on the issue of the book burning, I think they are right to condemn it.

While there have certainly been some crazy zealots, I haven't seen any protests burning the Qu'ran or threats to kill all muslims everywhere as a result of the Ground Zero Mosque. This is perhaps the closest thing we have seen, and it has been met with rebuke from just about everywhere... unlike the mosque where the President came out in support of it....

See what I mean, Obama supported it when he was in front of a bunch of fellow muzzies. Then had no problem walking it back, the next day in typical un-self-aware Liberal hypocrisy.

Burn it or not - nothing changes.

End result:

The Church gets a ton of publicity.

Radical Islamic terror groups get a ton of new funding and more recruits.

More Americans and Muslims die.

Somebody's husband, or son, or mom is going to die, just because this church decided to burn some books.

(09-08-2010 04:26 PM)dwr0109 Wrote:  End result:

The Church gets a ton of publicity.

Radical Islamic terror groups get a ton of new funding and more recruits.

More Americans and Muslims die.

Somebody's husband, or son, or mom is going to die, just because this church decided to burn some books.

Guess we know which religion is radical and violent then, don't we?

(09-08-2010 04:26 PM)dwr0109 Wrote:  End result:

The Church gets a ton of publicity.

Radical Islamic terror groups get a ton of new funding and more recruits.

More Americans and Muslims die.

Rather than re-enforce the "right not to be offended", we should re-enforce the right to peacefully protest. That's how we handled US flag burners. Instead, we're going AGAINST the Constitution and trying to tell peaceful protesters they can't do it because the religion of peace might kill people over it.

Seriously. Does that make sense to ANYONE? Obviously I'm getting a bit worked up over this and apologize... but I just don't get it.

I know yu have the right to protest the mosque, but it is secondary to their right to build the mosque. Ok. I know you have the right to protest by burning books, but they might get mad, so you need to stop. The Constitution apparently doesn't give you the right to protest if people will kill you over it. What message does that send? How did we respond to threats like this in the 60's?? Where is Pelosi threatening to investigate the church protesters? What if someone threatens to kill Muslims over the Mosque? I seem to recall a couple of liberal posters on here getting all worked up because a conservative poster said someone might blow up the mosque. Where are they now??

(09-08-2010 04:33 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-08-2010 04:26 PM)dwr0109 Wrote:  End result:

The Church gets a ton of publicity.

Radical Islamic terror groups get a ton of new funding and more recruits.

More Americans and Muslims die.

Rather than re-enforce the "right not to be offended", we should re-enforce the right to peacefully protest. That's how we handled US flag burners. Instead, we're going AGAINST the Constitution and trying to tell peaceful protesters they can't do it because the religion of peace might kill people over it.

Seriously. Does that make sense to ANYONE? Obviously I'm getting a bit worked up over this and apologize... but I just don't get it.

I know yu have the right to protest the mosque, but it is secondary to their right to build the mosque. Ok. I know you have the right to protest by burning books, but they might get mad, so you need to stop. The Constitution apparently doesn't give you the right to protest if people will kill you over it. What message does that send? How did we respond to threats like this in the 60's?? Where is Pelosi threatening to investigate the church protesters? What if someone threatens to kill Muslims over the Mosque? I seem to recall a couple of liberal posters on here getting all worked up because a conservative poster said someone might blow up the mosque. Where are they now??

Thick with irony.

(09-05-2010 01:17 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(09-05-2010 09:20 AM)I45owl Wrote:  I don't blame them for being upset or marching (peacefully) in protest. Religious leaders in this country should condemn this and it is probably appropriate for the president to use the bully pulpit to denounce it. I am pretty sure that GWB would have done the same.

http://www.doveworld.org/blog/ten-reason...rn-a-koran

President should stay out of it.

This! Talk about a gross misrepresentation of Christianity. Preach the full GOSPEL and stay out of attention grabbing politically motivated stunts. Nothing will be gained by "burning the koran".

(09-08-2010 04:56 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(09-05-2010 01:17 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(09-05-2010 09:20 AM)I45owl Wrote:  I don't blame them for being upset or marching (peacefully) in protest. Religious leaders in this country should condemn this and it is probably appropriate for the president to use the bully pulpit to denounce it. I am pretty sure that GWB would have done the same.

http://www.doveworld.org/blog/ten-reason...rn-a-koran

President should stay out of it.

This! Talk about a gross misrepresentation of Christianity. Preach the full GOSPEL and stay out of attention grabbing politically motivated stunts. Nothing will be gained by "burning the koran".

And nothing will be lost. Nothing changes.

(09-08-2010 05:03 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(09-08-2010 04:56 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(09-05-2010 01:17 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(09-05-2010 09:20 AM)I45owl Wrote:  I don't blame them for being upset or marching (peacefully) in protest. Religious leaders in this country should condemn this and it is probably appropriate for the president to use the bully pulpit to denounce it. I am pretty sure that GWB would have done the same.

http://www.doveworld.org/blog/ten-reason...rn-a-koran

President should stay out of it.

This! Talk about a gross misrepresentation of Christianity. Preach the full GOSPEL and stay out of attention grabbing politically motivated stunts. Nothing will be gained by "burning the koran".

And nothing will be lost. Nothing changes.

This will do nothing but possibly alienate moderate muslims and even non-Christian non-muslims. Its just a stupid hate-filled attention grab.

Why? If they're moderate, they wouldn't care about what someone else does with the rag.

(09-08-2010 05:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Why? If they're moderate, they wouldn't care about what someone else does with the rag.

I think you are wrong. I believe that moderate Christians would be somewhat offended by a Bible Burning, why should I expect different from the muslims.


Don't get me wrong....I believe that Islam is the religion of the Anti-Christ and is attempting to take over the world by the sword, but I just don't think this burning does any good whatsoever.

(09-08-2010 05:14 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(09-08-2010 05:12 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Why? If they're moderate, they wouldn't care about what someone else does with the rag.

I think you are wrong. I believe that moderate Christians would be somewhat offended by a Bible Burning, why should I expect different from the muslims.

I don't see any of'em marching in the streets, burning effigies, and calling for the death of all atheists.

I'm guessing I might have spent more time in the Arab world than all of the other posters on here. I would like to think that gives me some idea what I'm talking about.

This is absolute nuts. It's hard to imagine anything crazier, except maybe building a mosque near Ground Zero.

But from a legal standpoint, I'd have to say that both are exercises of rights clearly granted by our constitution. We don't outlaw things just because they are stupid. But what we do, or at least used to do, is to recognize that with each right comes the obligation to exercise that right responsibility. Both situations represent irresponsible exercises of those rights.

(09-08-2010 05:11 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  This will do nothing but possibly alienate moderate muslims and even non-Christian non-muslims. Its just a stupid hate-filled attention grab.

It's actually an opportunity to prove us all wrong and show us Islam really is the religion of peace. The ball is in their court.

(09-08-2010 04:56 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  This! Talk about a gross misrepresentation of Christianity. Preach the full GOSPEL and stay out of attention grabbing politically motivated stunts. Nothing will be gained by "burning the koran".

While I agree, there is nothing about this church or any church for that matter that says they must proscribe to my, or even the popular view of Christianity. If these 50 want to burn in hell, that is their choice. What is MORE important is the gross misrepresentation of Constitutional rights... because that has implications for many more than these 50.

(09-08-2010 05:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I'm guessing I might have spent more time in the Arab world than all of the other posters on here. I would like to think that gives me some idea what I'm talking about.

This is absolute nuts. It's hard to imagine anything crazier, except maybe building a mosque near Ground Zero.

But from a legal standpoint, I'd have to say that both are exercises of rights clearly granted by our constitution. We don't outlaw things just because they are stupid. But what we do, or at least used to do, is to recognize that with each right comes the obligation to exercise that right responsibility. Both situations represent irresponsible exercises of those rights.

I don't disagree at all... which is why I changed my mind and said the President should say so.... but you can't chastise THESE people without affirming their rights and chastising/warning those who have threatened violence (even and especially against those completely unrelated to this protest) against them. There IS a right to protest. There IS NOT a right to threaten violence against a protester.
The Qu'ran is NOT protected in this country... and barring a change in government, never will be... no matter WHAT the muslim population of the world thinks. We NEED to affirm the fact that you can't simply threaten violence against our citizens and get away with it. That is specifically what our government is chartered to do, isn't it? They AREN'T Chartered to protect the Qu'ran or the image of Muhammed