(09-28-2009 04:03 PM)USFMike Wrote:  

(09-28-2009 02:04 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  USF can't expect recruits to flock to them by winning a game in Tallahassee anymore than it could've expected recruits to flock to them after they got up to #2 in the BCS rankings a couple of years ago.

hey frank you do realize our recruiting went up from being consistently in the 50's to being in the top 25 last year and yes that's a by product of getting to number two in the nation and number ten in the nation the next year. if you don't think a win over fsu won't win over recruits in florida than there is no help for you. i get the feeling if we beat miami and win the be you'd probably argue well you didn't beat florida, get over yourself.

No - my only argument is that USF is not at the Florida/FSU/Miami level as of today. I'm not sure why people see that as such a negative - 90% of the schools in the BCS aren't at that level. Have more recruits considered USF over the past couple of years and will there be more interest due to the win over FSU? Sure, I can agree with that. However, the argument on this thread is that USF has vaulted itself into a permanent place alongside Florida, FSU and Miami, which I don't agree with. That's why I've stated that the upcoming series with Miami is what's really going to make or break USF's reputation in the State of Florida because that's a long-term series over several years. Pointing out that you can beat Miami consistently is a true showing of longevity as opposed to a one-hit wonder (which college football is filled with) - that's USF's biggest opportunity.

Look, USF has gone farther in a little over a decade than anyone could've possibly imagined. There's a lot of credit to be passed around down there. It's just that the "we're equals with FSU and Miami now" argument might be prideful but not rational if you step away from the fan-colored glasses. That being said, I think that USF has a reasonable and legit chance to get to that level (which you can't say about everyone in the BE), which is something that the conference needs.

Frank
I think you miss what MOST of us mean when we say we are now part of the Big Three ( Big Four).

#1 We are part of a BCS automatic bid just like the other three.
#2 We have NOW beaten one of the Big Three. So we can say we can beat them on the field.

We are the ONLY other florida school outside of the Big Three that could say BOTH those things. Until this past weekend we couldnt say #2. So we can offer our recruits the same type of experiences the other three can.

Certaintly winning the big East, going to BCS bowls and beating miami would help cement that, but this was ANOTHER step in making us part of the Big Four.

(09-28-2009 04:40 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-28-2009 04:03 PM)USFMike Wrote:  

(09-28-2009 02:04 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  USF can't expect recruits to flock to them by winning a game in Tallahassee anymore than it could've expected recruits to flock to them after they got up to #2 in the BCS rankings a couple of years ago.

hey frank you do realize our recruiting went up from being consistently in the 50's to being in the top 25 last year and yes that's a by product of getting to number two in the nation and number ten in the nation the next year. if you don't think a win over fsu won't win over recruits in florida than there is no help for you. i get the feeling if we beat miami and win the be you'd probably argue well you didn't beat florida, get over yourself.

No - my only argument is that USF is not at the Florida/FSU/Miami level as of today. I'm not sure why people see that as such a negative - 90% of the schools in the BCS aren't at that level. Have more recruits considered USF over the past couple of years and will there be more interest due to the win over FSU? Sure, I can agree with that. However, the argument on this thread is that USF has vaulted itself into a permanent place alongside Florida, FSU and Miami, which I don't agree with. That's why I've stated that the upcoming series with Miami is what's really going to make or break USF's reputation in the State of Florida because that's a long-term series over several years. Pointing out that you can beat Miami consistently is a true showing of longevity as opposed to a one-hit wonder (which college football is filled with) - that's USF's biggest opportunity.

Look, USF has gone farther in a little over a decade than anyone could've possibly imagined. There's a lot of credit to be passed around down there. It's just that the "we're equals with FSU and Miami now" argument might be prideful but not rational if you step away from the fan-colored glasses.

Frank, no one who has participated in this thread has claimed that USF is equals to Miami/FSU/UF. What we are saying is that the Bulls are now in the Big 3/Big 4 club. Its the same way Miami and FSU are in the "Big 3" club, but are not at this time equal to the University of Florida. But they are part of the big 3 club.

(09-28-2009 04:40 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-28-2009 04:03 PM)USFMike Wrote:  

(09-28-2009 02:04 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  USF can't expect recruits to flock to them by winning a game in Tallahassee anymore than it could've expected recruits to flock to them after they got up to #2 in the BCS rankings a couple of years ago.

hey frank you do realize our recruiting went up from being consistently in the 50's to being in the top 25 last year and yes that's a by product of getting to number two in the nation and number ten in the nation the next year. if you don't think a win over fsu won't win over recruits in florida than there is no help for you. i get the feeling if we beat miami and win the be you'd probably argue well you didn't beat florida, get over yourself.

No - my only argument is that USF is not at the Florida/FSU/Miami level as of today. I'm not sure why people see that as such a negative - 90% of the schools in the BCS aren't at that level. Have more recruits considered USF over the past couple of years and will there be more interest due to the win over FSU? Sure, I can agree with that. However, the argument on this thread is that USF has vaulted itself into a permanent place alongside Florida, FSU and Miami, which I don't agree with. That's why I've stated that the upcoming series with Miami is what's really going to make or break USF's reputation in the State of Florida because that's a long-term series over several years. Pointing out that you can beat Miami consistently is a true showing of longevity as opposed to a one-hit wonder (which college football is filled with) - that's USF's biggest opportunity.

Look, USF has gone farther in a little over a decade than anyone could've possibly imagined. There's a lot of credit to be passed around down there. It's just that the "we're equals with FSU and Miami now" argument might be prideful but not rational if you step away from the fan-colored glasses. That being said, I think that USF has a reasonable and legit chance to get to that level (which you can't say about everyone in the BE), which is something that the conference needs.

no usf fans were seriously making that claim, if anything it was just other big east fans being congratulatory. however this does change things in florida, beating fsu is a bigger recruiting tool than you think, for a lot of recruits that's bigger than winning the big east (i don't agree with it but it's the truth). i wouldn't downplay going to number 2 either as the recruits we got from that exposure (i.e. bj daniels) made beating fsu possible in the first place.

(09-28-2009 05:28 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  Frank, no one who has participated in this thread has claimed that USF is equals to Miami/FSU/UF. What we are saying is that the Bulls are now in the Big 3/Big 4 club. Its the same way Miami and FSU are in the "Big 3" club, but are not at this time equal to the University of Florida. But they are part of the big 3 club.

OK - that's a fair and reasonable statement.

(09-28-2009 12:47 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-28-2009 09:16 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I will agree with you that Fresno State should be BCS......yes.
I will also agree that outside of Cincy, most Ohioans aren't familiar with UC football...we are traditionally a bball school and are known as such nationally (although since Huggs left, it's been tough going).

Beating ONE school doesn't make the program all of a sudden "better" as a whole. USF is a program on the rise. They have not won the BE, been to a BCS game, etc. so not sure what you are a "believer" in there. Cincy has done both of those things. Are we Johnny Come Lately to college football...yes. We have done a lot in the past two years and continue that trend this year. We are a program on the rise. O$U knows this and pulled out of the game at PBS. In fact, they wanted out period but BK took the 1million dollar backout and then made them stick to the contract in that we could force the game in Columbus. The fact is, there are two bcs schools in ohio, there are two ranked teams in ohio...there are two programs that have gone to bcs bowl games in ohio. The peopel of ohio should be able to see a separation between uc, and bgsu, akron, miami, toledo, ohio, etc. Are we on OSU level? no. But, as Cat's Claw said, we have made it a "two horse race". If you can't see that, then you don't want to.
Fresno has done NONE of this. We are above Fresno. If we have to agree to disagree, so be it.

I believe Fresno was in the top ten for a while when they had David Carr and they were knocking off ranked teams. Not that any of this matters because it's opinions. I suppose you can knock on OSU's door all you want, but if they don't answer nothing can be resolved, which is weak on their part.

With USF I guess I just see that as a Cincy over OState type win. I semi-doubted them before as an upstart, and I guess I just consider them the real deal now, especially because their leader Groethe couldn't play. BTW, that Daniels guy looks awesome.

Needless to say, I am going to make a point of watching that Cincy-USF game!

Should be a good one...I don't see beating them. We beat them every year and as I posted somewhere else, you gotta lose sometime by the law of averages. Needless to say, I'm excited about this game and it should be a good showing for the BE...esp. if both teams take care of business this week (UC vs Cryami and USF vs Cuse).

Tank, I know why Ohio State doesn't play Cincy. They want to play one high caliber OOC school every year. They want the extra home games, so really they only have the one OOC road game every other year. I can say they're weak because we actually play non-conference schools in our state, at their stadium too!

(09-28-2009 02:56 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(09-28-2009 02:50 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-28-2009 02:33 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I understand that this is a week for USF fans to puff out their chests, and deservedly so. However, as a long-term proposition, I still think that the USF-Miami series over the course of several years will really show whether USF is in the mix of the other 3 Florida schools. That's not a knock - to the nation, Florida, FSU and Miami are truly elite programs, so at least USF is aiming high here.

Yes, beating FSU was great, but the Big 3 reputations are built on a lot more than that, namely 20+ years of winning conference titles, BCS bowls, and multiple national titles.

It will take more than one good win like this past week to close that gap and put us among their company. Still, 25+ years ago those schools were blips that barely registered on the football map and they all had to start somewhere and build up. Hopefully, we can do the same.

NOT entirely correct UF, FSU and UM have been the Big Three in Florida even before they won NC games. You are going to tell me that FSU wasnt in big three till they did that? the same with Florida?

Nope, i never said those schools weren't Big 3 before winning national titles.

(09-28-2009 05:12 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Frank
I think you miss what MOST of us mean when we say we are now part of the Big Three ( Big Four).

......................

Certaintly winning the big East, going to BCS bowls and beating miami would help cement that, but this was ANOTHER step in making us part of the Big Four.

Yes, beating FSU was another step on the path to membership in the Big ___ , but clearly we aren't yet there. Closer than we've ever been, but still distance to be covered.

I think USF is in the Big Four when it comes to recruiting. Apparently, Leavitt is a good recruiter and is able to get a good number of quality recruits to come to USF. I remember reading a quote last year from Urban Meyer acknowledging the recruiting prowness of USF. He made the statement when asked about recruiting in the Tampa area.

Does this put USF in the Big Four in the eyes of the casual fan across the country. Probably not, but if it gets more attention from recruits then that is a start.

Proximity to a sh!tload recruits is the biggest recruiter for kids who want to stay close to home. Some kids don't feel comfortable away from home when they go to college. These kids want someplace close to home. But not too close. For those kinds of kids in Florida, USF is just as good a destination as any other Florida school...

Of course, a coach with a good personality will persuade more kids on campus. If he's just gets a small percentage of the talented kids in the state, that's one heck of a boon, and will lead to success. Success is another very good recruiter. Most kids want to go someplace that is successful, and the more successful you are, the more kids will want to ride along on the bandwagon. Put all these factors together, and you have a winning combination in recruiting...