(08-08-2009 05:44 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 01:34 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I don't buy that anyone can know if something this complicated will be a success or a failure until it is implemented and has been around a few years.

It's real easy to look around the world and see what works and what doesn't. It's simple as pie to look at what government already has straped us with and see they just aren't any good at any thing. And it's insane to find what doesn't work and say "hey, why don't we try that sh!tty system?"

That's what's so frustrating to me about this. The dems are determined to push things that have been found wanting everywhere they've been tried. The republicans have a great opportunity to look around, see what works, and adopt it as theirs, but instead they are just saying "no" to the democrat proposals.

What are some things we could do?

The French universal private-sector free-market health care plan.
The Brazilian "all hands on deck" approach to energy self-sufficency.
The Norwegian and New Zealand (two countries that are greener than we are) approach to allowing offshore oil and gas drilling.
The Swedish (Swedish!!!!) privatization of social security.
The Swedish (Sweden again, and don't laugh, their air force is one of the best in the world), Israeli, and Swiss use of reserve forces to build a strong military withot spending an arm and a leg.
The European/Japanese high speed rail systems and urban mass transit.
The tax approach implemented by the former Soviet satellites in eastern Europe, consisting of flat taxes at relatively low levels applied equally to three different tax bases--payroll, business profits, and consumption--about 15 percent each.
The education systems used by every country in the worldwide top-10 (we are not) where students are placed on three or more different tracks depending on ability and interests.

Those would all be better approaches than anything that either democrats or republicans have placed on the table.

Obama Lies so much, is it any wonder he gets them mixed up and confused.

(08-08-2009 06:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 05:44 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 01:34 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I don't buy that anyone can know if something this complicated will be a success or a failure until it is implemented and has been around a few years.

It's real easy to look around the world and see what works and what doesn't. It's simple as pie to look at what government already has straped us with and see they just aren't any good at any thing. And it's insane to find what doesn't work and say "hey, why don't we try that sh!tty system?"

That's what's so frustrating to me about this. The dems are determined to push things that have been found wanting everywhere they've been tried. The republicans have a great opportunity to look around, see what works, and adopt it as theirs, but instead they are just saying "no" to the democrat proposals.

What are some things we could do?

The French universal private-sector free-market health care plan.
The Brazilian "all hands on deck" approach to energy self-sufficency.
The Norwegian and New Zealand (two countries that are greener than we are) approach to allowing offshore oil and gas drilling.
The Swedish (Swedish!!!!) privatization of social security.
The Swedish (Sweden again, and don't laugh, their air force is one of the best in the world), Israeli, and Swiss use of reserve forces to build a strong military withot spending an arm and a leg.
The European/Japanese high speed rail systems and urban mass transit.
The tax approach implemented by the former Soviet satellites in eastern Europe, consisting of flat taxes at relatively low levels applied equally to three different tax bases--payroll, business profits, and consumption--about 15 percent each.
The education systems used by every country in the worldwide top-10 (we are not) where students are placed on three or more different tracks depending on ability and interests.

Those would all be better approaches than anything that either democrats or republicans have placed on the table.

I can live with #1. I agree with your suggestion #6-high speed trains and rapid transit. THe rest, well, can go in the trash.

(08-08-2009 03:50 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 10:21 AM)Tripster Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 09:53 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  It's not so much love as it is a lack of education in general and a complete lack of knowledge of history.

We talk of socialism, communism, fascism and capitalism. The average "man on the street" can't tell you what they are or the differences between them. And I'm not just talking about those "back on the block". There are college graduates in the same boat. These ideas are not taught in high school and only come up in college in specific classes and there they are taught by leftists. My kids, both grown, wouldn't know anything about politics, history or government, except for my constant badgering.

Today the arguments on policy come down to the "thinking people" with facts and an understanding of how we got to where we are today against the "feeling people" with their pie in the sky plans and their rigid ignorance. It is extremely frustrating.

It is so Very Frustrating that it is almost a "Driver to Total Fingernails on the Blackboard Insanity".

Even in the Public School Systems kids are pummeled with this stuff, bit man after they hit College, it is like a Trip Down the Hole of Plugged in Communism.

You have to remember that we are and have been a Free Market Capitalist Society for so long, that is only a very Short Stroke to be Socialist - - if you try to make Russia a Socialist Nation, where do you start and where do you go .... they are Socialist Steeped and are at Saturation Levels.

You move the United States just a tiny bit hear and tiny bit there and we have Major Changes in our Constitutional Structure and the trip to Socialism is only Program or an Entitlement away .... we have a lot of room until "Saturation" and that is what this Administration is counting on .... we won't notice until it is TOO LATE.

.

All you righties have finally completely lost it. You are all mentally insane.

It must be nice to be so comfortable despite being completely wrapped up in your own ignorance. To be so smug, self-satisfied and self-righteous about it also.To mock every opposing idea or call it a "talking point" without ever offering an idea yourself. It's sad to see that someone can attain your age while retaining the maturity of a 9 year-old.

(08-09-2009 01:03 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 03:50 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 10:21 AM)Tripster Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 09:53 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  It's not so much love as it is a lack of education in general and a complete lack of knowledge of history.

We talk of socialism, communism, fascism and capitalism. The average "man on the street" can't tell you what they are or the differences between them. And I'm not just talking about those "back on the block". There are college graduates in the same boat. These ideas are not taught in high school and only come up in college in specific classes and there they are taught by leftists. My kids, both grown, wouldn't know anything about politics, history or government, except for my constant badgering.

Today the arguments on policy come down to the "thinking people" with facts and an understanding of how we got to where we are today against the "feeling people" with their pie in the sky plans and their rigid ignorance. It is extremely frustrating.

It is so Very Frustrating that it is almost a "Driver to Total Fingernails on the Blackboard Insanity".

Even in the Public School Systems kids are pummeled with this stuff, bit man after they hit College, it is like a Trip Down the Hole of Plugged in Communism.

You have to remember that we are and have been a Free Market Capitalist Society for so long, that is only a very Short Stroke to be Socialist - - if you try to make Russia a Socialist Nation, where do you start and where do you go .... they are Socialist Steeped and are at Saturation Levels.

You move the United States just a tiny bit hear and tiny bit there and we have Major Changes in our Constitutional Structure and the trip to Socialism is only Program or an Entitlement away .... we have a lot of room until "Saturation" and that is what this Administration is counting on .... we won't notice until it is TOO LATE.

.

All you righties have finally completely lost it. You are all mentally insane.

It must be nice to be so comfortable despite being completely wrapped up in your own ignorance. To be so smug, self-satisfied and self-righteous about it also.To mock every opposing idea or call it a "talking point" without ever offering an idea yourself. It's sad to see that someone can attain your age while retaining the maturity of a 9 year-old.

I mock the oppositions ideas because they don't make logical sense most of the time. Oh, as for them being talking points, yes they are. You hear the same crap from you guys shortly after it is mentioned on Faux and/or Rush the main sources of Republican news. Rush stated on this Obama is Hitler kick then it spread to a commentary(I believe there was a post on it on this board) and you guys follow that and call him a Fascist and Hitler. But you are right. THey aren't talking points. :rolleyes3:

(08-09-2009 12:12 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 06:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 05:44 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 01:34 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I don't buy that anyone can know if something this complicated will be a success or a failure until it is implemented and has been around a few years.

It's real easy to look around the world and see what works and what doesn't. It's simple as pie to look at what government already has straped us with and see they just aren't any good at any thing. And it's insane to find what doesn't work and say "hey, why don't we try that sh!tty system?"

That's what's so frustrating to me about this. The dems are determined to push things that have been found wanting everywhere they've been tried. The republicans have a great opportunity to look around, see what works, and adopt it as theirs, but instead they are just saying "no" to the democrat proposals.
What are some things we could do?
The French universal private-sector free-market health care plan.
The Brazilian "all hands on deck" approach to energy self-sufficency.
The Norwegian and New Zealand (two countries that are greener than we are) approach to allowing offshore oil and gas drilling.
The Swedish (Swedish!!!!) privatization of social security.
The Swedish (Sweden again, and don't laugh, their air force is one of the best in the world), Israeli, and Swiss use of reserve forces to build a strong military withot spending an arm and a leg.
The European/Japanese high speed rail systems and urban mass transit.
The tax approach implemented by the former Soviet satellites in eastern Europe, consisting of flat taxes at relatively low levels applied equally to three different tax bases--payroll, business profits, and consumption--about 15 percent each.
The education systems used by every country in the worldwide top-10 (we are not) where students are placed on three or more different tracks depending on ability and interests.
Those would all be better approaches than anything that either democrats or republicans have placed on the table.

I can live with #1. I agree with your suggestion #6-high speed trains and rapid transit. THe rest, well, can go in the trash.

You are allowing your preconceived ideological biases to prejudice yourself against looking objectively at what works and doesn't work in the real world.
Don't worry, you're not alone, the right wing wackos are doing the same thing as the left wing loons on almost every issue.
Obama promised that he would do better than that.
Millions of people believed him and voted for him.
Poor them.

(08-09-2009 01:42 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Oh, as for them being talking points, yes they are. You hear the same crap from you guys shortly after it is mentioned on Faux and/or Rush the main sources of Republican news. Rush stated on this Obama is Hitler kick then it spread to a commentary(I believe there was a post on it on this board) and you guys follow that and call him a Fascist and Hitler. But you are right. THey aren't talking points. :rolleyes3:

Much as you started referring to "insurance companies" just after the White House attempted to change the debate from health care reform to health insurance reform. But that's not a talking point.

And for the record I am not a sheep. I do not follow anyone. I am older than Rush Limbaugh and he is mimicking me. And I have not at any time referred to anyone as a fascist or a Hitler although I reserve the option to do so in the future. So if you are going to accuse me of something, in the future please attempt to adhere to the facts.

(08-09-2009 01:42 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-09-2009 01:03 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 03:50 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 10:21 AM)Tripster Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 09:53 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  It's not so much love as it is a lack of education in general and a complete lack of knowledge of history.

We talk of socialism, communism, fascism and capitalism. The average "man on the street" can't tell you what they are or the differences between them. And I'm not just talking about those "back on the block". There are college graduates in the same boat. These ideas are not taught in high school and only come up in college in specific classes and there they are taught by leftists. My kids, both grown, wouldn't know anything about politics, history or government, except for my constant badgering.

Today the arguments on policy come down to the "thinking people" with facts and an understanding of how we got to where we are today against the "feeling people" with their pie in the sky plans and their rigid ignorance. It is extremely frustrating.

It is so Very Frustrating that it is almost a "Driver to Total Fingernails on the Blackboard Insanity".

Even in the Public School Systems kids are pummeled with this stuff, bit man after they hit College, it is like a Trip Down the Hole of Plugged in Communism.

You have to remember that we are and have been a Free Market Capitalist Society for so long, that is only a very Short Stroke to be Socialist - - if you try to make Russia a Socialist Nation, where do you start and where do you go .... they are Socialist Steeped and are at Saturation Levels.

You move the United States just a tiny bit hear and tiny bit there and we have Major Changes in our Constitutional Structure and the trip to Socialism is only Program or an Entitlement away .... we have a lot of room until "Saturation" and that is what this Administration is counting on .... we won't notice until it is TOO LATE.

.

All you righties have finally completely lost it. You are all mentally insane.

It must be nice to be so comfortable despite being completely wrapped up in your own ignorance. To be so smug, self-satisfied and self-righteous about it also.To mock every opposing idea or call it a "talking point" without ever offering an idea yourself. It's sad to see that someone can attain your age while retaining the maturity of a 9 year-old.

I mock the oppositions ideas because they don't make logical sense most of the time. Oh, as for them being talking points, yes they are. You hear the same crap from you guys shortly after it is mentioned on Faux and/or Rush the main sources of Republican news. Rush stated on this Obama is Hitler kick then it spread to a commentary(I believe there was a post on it on this board) and you guys follow that and call him a Fascist and Hitler. But you are right. THey aren't talking points. :rolleyes3:

The only way you could know this would be for you to watch Fox and Rush and that Roberta, is just not something that you do. You have no ideas of your own either. You are an extremely hateful, belligerent liar. You don't like Obama referred to as Fascist or Hitler but you are extremely antisemitic and never minded Bush being compared to Hitler.

(08-07-2009 08:56 PM)Paul M Wrote:  I asked this question in one of the threads of anyone and got no replys. Which one is a lie? When Obama makes a prepared speech at a news conference for us paid goons of the insurance lobby where he says he has no intentions of doing away with private heath care, private insurance, or when he is secretly filmed in a room full of like minded people telling them that single payer health care is the goal and the current heath care bill is a way to get there.

Also these clips have been posted in another thread, along with another, and none of the libs here posted. Period. Will any of you take a shot at the question?

What you see is a politician who will say anything he has to in order to get elected. Granted, all of them do that, but lying about the health care that keeps us and our families alive crosses the line.

Is it possible that he will go down as the worst president ever? People hated Nixon, but as time went on they realized he was actually quite good. Carter, on the other hand, is still considered a buffoon. I wonder what people will think of Obama in 25 years?

(08-09-2009 09:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Is it possible that he will go down as the worst president ever? People hated Nixon, but as time went on they realized he was actually quite good. Carter, on the other hand, is still considered a buffoon. I wonder what people will think of Obama in 25 years?

Hell Steve, I have a new found appreciation of Clinton,... something that I never would have thought possible.

There is no saving Carter though.

And 2000 years from now there will still be volumes written about the darkest years before America was destroyed from within.

(08-09-2009 10:32 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Hell Steve, I have a new found appreciation of Clinton,... something that I never would have thought possible.

I'm with you there. A moderate liberal is something we can tolerate every couple of decades or so. Deep down, he's a capitalist just like us, otherwise he wouldn't be gouging us for $50k or more per speech.

(08-09-2009 09:35 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(08-09-2009 01:42 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-09-2009 01:03 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 03:50 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 10:21 AM)Tripster Wrote:  

(08-08-2009 09:53 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  It's not so much love as it is a lack of education in general and a complete lack of knowledge of history.

We talk of socialism, communism, fascism and capitalism. The average "man on the street" can't tell you what they are or the differences between them. And I'm not just talking about those "back on the block". There are college graduates in the same boat. These ideas are not taught in high school and only come up in college in specific classes and there they are taught by leftists. My kids, both grown, wouldn't know anything about politics, history or government, except for my constant badgering.

Today the arguments on policy come down to the "thinking people" with facts and an understanding of how we got to where we are today against the "feeling people" with their pie in the sky plans and their rigid ignorance. It is extremely frustrating.

It is so Very Frustrating that it is almost a "Driver to Total Fingernails on the Blackboard Insanity".

Even in the Public School Systems kids are pummeled with this stuff, bit man after they hit College, it is like a Trip Down the Hole of Plugged in Communism.

You have to remember that we are and have been a Free Market Capitalist Society for so long, that is only a very Short Stroke to be Socialist - - if you try to make Russia a Socialist Nation, where do you start and where do you go .... they are Socialist Steeped and are at Saturation Levels.

You move the United States just a tiny bit hear and tiny bit there and we have Major Changes in our Constitutional Structure and the trip to Socialism is only Program or an Entitlement away .... we have a lot of room until "Saturation" and that is what this Administration is counting on .... we won't notice until it is TOO LATE.

.

All you righties have finally completely lost it. You are all mentally insane.

It must be nice to be so comfortable despite being completely wrapped up in your own ignorance. To be so smug, self-satisfied and self-righteous about it also.To mock every opposing idea or call it a "talking point" without ever offering an idea yourself. It's sad to see that someone can attain your age while retaining the maturity of a 9 year-old.

I mock the oppositions ideas because they don't make logical sense most of the time. Oh, as for them being talking points, yes they are. You hear the same crap from you guys shortly after it is mentioned on Faux and/or Rush the main sources of Republican news. Rush stated on this Obama is Hitler kick then it spread to a commentary(I believe there was a post on it on this board) and you guys follow that and call him a Fascist and Hitler. But you are right. THey aren't talking points. :rolleyes3:

The only way you could know this would be for you to watch Fox and Rush and that Roberta, is just not something that you do. You have no ideas of your own either. You are an extremely hateful, belligerent liar. You don't like Obama referred to as Fascist or Hitler but you are extremely antisemitic and never minded Bush being compared to Hitler.

I see clips of Faux and Rush on other programs. That is how I know.

(08-09-2009 09:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(08-07-2009 08:56 PM)Paul M Wrote:  I asked this question in one of the threads of anyone and got no replys. Which one is a lie? When Obama makes a prepared speech at a news conference for us paid goons of the insurance lobby where he says he has no intentions of doing away with private heath care, private insurance, or when he is secretly filmed in a room full of like minded people telling them that single payer health care is the goal and the current heath care bill is a way to get there.

Also these clips have been posted in another thread, along with another, and none of the libs here posted. Period. Will any of you take a shot at the question?

What you see is a politician who will say anything he has to in order to get elected. Granted, all of them do that, but lying about the health care that keeps us and our families alive crosses the line.

Is it possible that he will go down as the worst president ever? People hated Nixon, but as time went on they realized he was actually quite good. Carter, on the other hand, is still considered a buffoon. I wonder what people will think of Obama in 25 years?

Well, if we are still alive(Bush said we would all be dead by then), I know that the righties on this board will think he was a failure no matter what he does or how the country ends up doing under him.