CyberBull Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:I believe when Libs use an argument when if one disagrees with their position and/or speaks/writers about a factual event that goes about the leftists teachings...the libs always whine "free mongering".

KL -- is it any different from the often used page from the Republican playbook, that charges anyone who disagrees with them a "leftist liberal", as is if that is supposed to be some sort of insult?

Regarding fear mongering, since when did misleading phone calls filled with innuendo of fear become acceptable to McCain's campaign? Afterall, during the 2000 elections McCain condemned such tactics in South Carolina by George Bush. If the "truth" that he wants to get out is so important why did he wait until "4th and long" to bring these things up? Especially, since Senator Clinton brought this up during the primaries.

Again, I ask: why now? Why bring up this stuff when there are so many more important things that Americans are facing?

Is it suddenly more important b/c McCain is down in the polls?

I have never seen someone type so much to say so little. You have yet to make a coherent point or factual or policy based argument. All that you type are sweeping generalities and rhetoric about 'the right', race baiting and accusations of fear mongering.

Leftist liberal is only an insult if you think it is which you seem to. You should be proud of your leanings. I certainly don't apologize for mine.

CyberBull Wrote:

animus Wrote:I can't support a man that wants to 'SPREAD THE WEALTH'. If I want to help people out I will. At least I get a chance to do it on my own now. With Obama's plan I get taxed to do the same thing. Eff that.

95% of Americans will see a tax cut.....95 PERCENT! To me that is the linchpin to this election. If Obama doesn't go back on his word, (see George Bush Sr) it will be a win for middle class America. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Secondly, its unfathomable stretch between Obama's tax plan and the supposed communism this country is on verge of entering if Obama gets elected.

The only way America is going to reinvent itself is to invest in itself in areas such as education, energy independence, gov't reform, ect...

Unfortunately, the only party with new ideas and talking about re-investing in the American middle class and our entire infrastructure is Obama's. Perhaps, McCain is too.....but his message is getting drowned out in the negative attack ads trying to turn Obama into Osama.

95% of Americans don't pay federal taxes. In fact between 35-40% pay none at all so guess what, it's impossible to cut their taxes. Essentailly Obama will be giving that 40% a free XBox every year in a redistribution program. What an amazing effect that will have on the middle class.

KnightLight Wrote:

CyberBull Wrote:KL -- is it any different from the often used page from the Republican playbook, that charges anyone who disagrees with them a "leftist liberal", as is if that is supposed to be some sort of insult?

I use the "JFK" standard in regards to the Democratic party (i.e. moderate/Blue Dog Democrat wing).

Obama's view are more in lined with Marxists/Socialists than they are of JFK.

In fact...JFK was to the RIGHT of John McCain in many issues.

In 47 years...the Democratic Party has gone from:

And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.

to

"Spread the wealth"

I don't think any other explanation is needed.

...but you didn't answer the question, why is it that anyone who disagrees with right wing conservatives considered unpatriotic, leftists or liberals? Should we investigate all liberals to see if they are "pro-america" as the senator from Minnesota suggested yesterday afternoon. Come on KL.....

BTW...JFK was called a communist, socialist etc...by all those who opposed his liberal agenda of "civil rights". The impact of JFK's liberalism had a much greater far reaching, society changing impact than Obama's tax plan, which in essence will re-distribute a few percentage points of tax dollars. Finally, why is it okay to redistribute wealth to big oil (ie tax cuts) but unAmerican to give the middle class a break? Afterall, over the last 8 years all we have seen is gas prices go up along with big oil profits. Who is looking out for the middle class?

L-yes Wrote:

CyberBull Wrote:

animus Wrote:I can't support a man that wants to 'SPREAD THE WEALTH'. If I want to help people out I will. At least I get a chance to do it on my own now. With Obama's plan I get taxed to do the same thing. Eff that.

95% of Americans will see a tax cut.....95 PERCENT! To me that is the linchpin to this election. If Obama doesn't go back on his word, (see George Bush Sr) it will be a win for middle class America. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Secondly, its unfathomable stretch between Obama's tax plan and the supposed communism this country is on verge of entering if Obama gets elected.

The only way America is going to reinvent itself is to invest in itself in areas such as education, energy independence, gov't reform, ect...

Unfortunately, the only party with new ideas and talking about re-investing in the American middle class and our entire infrastructure is Obama's. Perhaps, McCain is too.....but his message is getting drowned out in the negative attack ads trying to turn Obama into Osama.

95% of Americans don't pay federal taxes. In fact between 35-40% pay none at all so guess what, it's impossible to cut their taxes. Essentailly Obama will be giving that 40% a free XBox every year in a redistribution program. What an amazing effect that will have on the middle class.

Do you have a source for that statement, or are you taking Lou Dobbs word for it....that "40% of Americans don't pay taxes"?

If that is true....that most Americans don't pay taxes....I want my money back!

Link: http://mediamatters.org/items/200810160021?f=h_latest

The republicans steal under cover of religion, religion does not belong in govt' it's personal choice not a govt.
I tought repubicans shot Kennedy's to get thier war machine going, I was not aware of him fixxing the banking situation. it's proablly incalliuable how much money they stole in the last 50 yrs, now the collapse is taking place, socializm might be the only thing that can save us.

L-yes Wrote:

CyberBull Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:I believe when Libs use an argument when if one disagrees with their position and/or speaks/writers about a factual event that goes about the leftists teachings...the libs always whine "free mongering".

KL -- is it any different from the often used page from the Republican playbook, that charges anyone who disagrees with them a "leftist liberal", as is if that is supposed to be some sort of insult?

Regarding fear mongering, since when did misleading phone calls filled with innuendo of fear become acceptable to McCain's campaign? Afterall, during the 2000 elections McCain condemned such tactics in South Carolina by George Bush. If the "truth" that he wants to get out is so important why did he wait until "4th and long" to bring these things up? Especially, since Senator Clinton brought this up during the primaries.

Again, I ask: why now? Why bring up this stuff when there are so many more important things that Americans are facing?

Is it suddenly more important b/c McCain is down in the polls?

I have never seen someone type so much to say so little. You have yet to make a coherent point or factual or policy based argument. All that you type are sweeping generalities and rhetoric about 'the right', race baiting and accusations of fear mongering.

Leftist liberal is only an insult if you think it is which you seem to. You should be proud of your leanings. I certainly don't apologize for mine.

What factual statements have you brought to the table other than signature pics that cast Obama as a terrorist? Gotcha....

CyberBull Wrote:

animus Wrote:I can't support a man that wants to 'SPREAD THE WEALTH'. If I want to help people out I will. At least I get a chance to do it on my own now. With Obama's plan I get taxed to do the same thing. Eff that.

95% of Americans will see a tax cut.....95 PERCENT!

Stop lying like OBAMA!!

Obama will not re institute ANY of the Bush Tax Cuts which include:

MARRIAGE PENALTY: (Standard Deduction for Joint Filers) So if you are MARRIED, your taxes will be GOING UP!

Capital Gains Tax Increase: 60% of all Americans have investments in the stock markets (private investments, retirement accounts, 401K's, etc...).

So if you are one of the 60% that do own investments, your taxes will be giong UP!

Dividends: For the 60% above...taxes will go up when that provision expires under Obama.

Decrease of the Child Tax Credit: This too will go down under President Obama once it expires.

Income Tax Rate: For ANYONE (sadly, only about 60% of Americans have to pay income tax today), ALL tax bracket rates will increase 3.5% - 4% on Jan 1, 2011.

For the lowest wage earners that have to pay income tax.

Since Bush gave them a tax cut from the 15% tax bracket to the 10% tax bracket...that provision will expire and the tax bracket will again be bumped up to 15%.

Obama is perfectly following one of his praised mentors that he likes to brag about in his books what he learned from famed known Communist, Saul Olinksy, and which he still uses today.

Saul Olinksy, has always used the dogma, : 'the end justifies the means'...and basically "say anything that will get you elected/into office".

Heck...even Michelle Obama used an Olinksy quote during her speech to the Dem Conv!!

Think about it....Pelosi and Harry Reid will be UNCHECKED as the #1 and #3 most liberal senators could be in the White House...and you still think that 95% of all Americans won't see tax increases?

Whew!!!!

CyberBull Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:1) And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.

2) "Spread the wealth"

...but you didn't answer the question, why is it that anyone who disagrees with right wing conservatives considered unpatriotic, leftists or liberals? Should we investigate all liberals to see if they are "pro-america" as the senator from Minnesota suggested yesterday afternoon.

I took out any reference to names in the above.

Which quote deals with Marxist/Socialist/Communist teachings?

#1 or #2?

templefootballfan Wrote:I tought repubicans shot Kennedy's to get thier war machine going...

Ah...LBJ wasn't a Republican.

gosports1 Wrote:What i want to know is where do McCain and Obama stand on BE expansion? Do they favor a split? By the way I dont think mccain is catholic.(not all irishmen are, hence the "troubles" in northern ireland)

Obama is for B.E. expansion because he wants to EXTEND THE WEALTH.

While McCain is old-school and wants to keep things the way they are and wouldn't mind seeing the football schools listed as Eastern Indy's.

"...but you didn't answer the question, why is it that anyone who disagrees with right wing conservatives considered unpatriotic, leftists or liberals? Should we investigate all liberals to see if they are "pro-america" as the senator from Minnesota suggested yesterday afternoon. "

I've voted for Dems in the past and would do it in the future. Not all Dems are bad its the small minority that get big time press suck ala Pelosi, Dodd, Obama. I really don't think Biden is that bad he was just wrong about splitting up Iraq by the tribes. And his comments about clean coal was somewhat dumb.

I actually saw this mortgage crisis coming 5 years ago. The houses prices kept going up while people's real income did not. The problem was lending practices were not regulated enough where banks were lending money out easily to idiots that have no business getting loans. People were getting loans to buy houses at 5% down and tried to flip them 6 months later for a huge profit.

This was the same thing happened to Japan in the 80's and it is the same thing happening now in the USA. Japan, btw, still has not got back in shape. Oh for those of you guys that don't know, Japan is 2nd largest economy in the world outside the USA.

The root problem in the USA is the educational system, especially in the grades 1-12. Our educational system is pathetic. We are one of the worst comparing to other industrial nations. Our schools don't teach our kids anything outside of the USA, so most kids growing up here know nothing about other countries other than the usual blind America is the best attitude. These problems will be issues in the next generation. In addition, our culture promotes athletes as superstars while making fun of PHDs and smart people. They are being called nerds and all kinds of unflattering titles while sports stars are being worshiped like gods. As a result, no kids here want to be engineers or scientists. Over 50% of USA engineers came from foreign countries. Trust me, this will catch up to USA someday. At end of the day, it is the scientists and engineers that make things better and more efficient. We forget sometimes athletes are just entertainers and nothing else. As a huge sports fan, I do understand this and many Americans don't.

Obama understands one of the key problems is our educational system. You can blame Fannie, Freddie or whatever, but the root of the problem is our culture. We promote behaviors that don't save, spend a ton, spend on useless crap, self fulfillment, Britney Spears, ignorance, entitlement issues and many other useless crap.

KnightLight Wrote:

CyberBull Wrote:

animus Wrote:I can't support a man that wants to 'SPREAD THE WEALTH'. If I want to help people out I will. At least I get a chance to do it on my own now. With Obama's plan I get taxed to do the same thing. Eff that.

95% of Americans will see a tax cut.....95 PERCENT!

Stop lying like OBAMA!!

Obama will not re institute ANY of the Bush Tax Cuts which include:

MARRIAGE PENALTY: (Standard Deduction for Joint Filers) So if you are MARRIED, your taxes will be GOING UP!

Capital Gains Tax Increase: 60% of all Americans have investments in the stock markets (private investments, retirement accounts, 401K's, etc...).

So if you are one of the 60% that do own investments, your taxes will be giong UP!

Dividends: For the 60% above...taxes will go up when that provision expires under Obama.

Decrease of the Child Tax Credit: This too will go down under President Obama once it expires.

Income Tax Rate: For ANYONE (sadly, only about 60% of Americans have to pay income tax today), ALL tax bracket rates will increase 3.5% - 4% on Jan 1, 2011.

For the lowest wage earners that have to pay income tax.

Since Bush gave them a tax cut from the 15% tax bracket to the 10% tax bracket...that provision will expire and the tax bracket will again be bumped up to 15%.

Obama is perfectly following one of his praised mentors that he likes to brag about in his books what he learned from famed known Communist, Saul Olinksy, and which he still uses today.

Saul Olinksy, has always used the dogma, : 'the end justifies the means'...and basically "say anything that will get you elected/into office".

Heck...even Michelle Obama used an Olinksy quote during her speech to the Dem Conv!!

Think about it....Pelosi and Harry Reid will be UNCHECKED as the #1 and #3 most liberal senators could be in the White House...and you still think that 95% of all Americans won't see tax increases?

Whew!!!!

Again, Obama's tax plan will not increase taxes on 95% of Americans. We'll see if he keeps his word. The last President who lied about raising taxes was voted out of office.

IMO, we take a greater risk continuing with the status quo, than what MAY or MAY NOT happen during the next 4 years. Americans want change...and are willing to consider new ideas, especially since the trickle down theory of economic conservatism is obviously NOT working.

KnightLight Wrote:

CyberBull Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:1) And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.

2) "Spread the wealth"

...but you didn't answer the question, why is it that anyone who disagrees with right wing conservatives considered unpatriotic, leftists or liberals? Should we investigate all liberals to see if they are "pro-america" as the senator from Minnesota suggested yesterday afternoon.

I took out any reference to names in the above.

Which quote deals with Marxist/Socialist/Communist teachings?

#1 or #2?

I can't answer that question b/c it fundamentally wrong b/c you are trying to paint JFK as a conservative. JFK was considered for more left than Obama. Ironic how he was attacked for many of the same things Obama is now facing...

SF Husky Wrote:I actually saw this mortgage crisis coming 5 years ago. The houses prices kept going up while people's real income did not. The problem was lending practices were not regulated enough where banks were lending money out easily to idiots that have no business getting loans. People were getting loans to buy houses at 5% down and tried to flip them 6 months later for a huge profit.

This was the same thing happened to Japan in the 80's and it is the same thing happening now in the USA. Japan, btw, still has not got back in shape. Oh for those of you guys that don't know, Japan is 2nd largest economy in the world outside the USA.

The root problem in the USA is the educational system, especially in the grades 1-12. Our educational system is pathetic. We are one of the worst comparing to other industrial nations. Our schools don't teach our kids anything outside of the USA, so most kids growing up here know nothing about other countries other than the usual blind America is the best attitude. These problems will be issues in the next generation. In addition, our culture promotes athletes as superstars while making fun of PHDs and smart people. They are being called nerds and all kinds of unflattering titles while sports stars are being worshiped like gods. As a result, no kids here want to be engineers or scientists. Over 50% of USA engineers came from foreign countries. Trust me, this will catch up to USA someday. At end of the day, it is the scientists and engineers that make things better and more efficient. We forget sometimes athletes are just entertainers and nothing else. As a huge sports fan, I do understand this and many Americans don't.

Obama understands one of the key problems is our educational system. You can blame Fannie, Freddie or whatever, but the root of the problem is our culture. We promote behaviors that don't save, spend a ton, spend on useless crap, self fulfillment, Britney Spears, ignorance, entitlement issues and many other useless crap.

I understand exandly what your saying. I do blame Frannie and Freddie for giving out those bad loans and esp with the shifting interest rate. You are right about the rediculous spending habits. No one knows how to save for a rainy day. In many ways this credit crunch will help reform the people as well as the system, which could end up being a blessing in diguise. Another problem with our economy is why is all of our clothing, shoes, most of our daily purchases is made from other country's. Where are the American company's at. If we had more company's making our daily products we would have a lower unemployment rate. So why tax some of these company's more if they have some work here and some work overseas. Why not give them tax breaks to keep their work here. If they are getting taxed they aren't making profits unless they jack up their prices which kills the consumer.

So much for that Hamas argument:

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/06...ael-lobby/

animus Wrote:I understand exandly what your saying. I do blame Frannie and Freddie for giving out those bad loans and esp with the shifting interest rate. You are right about the rediculous spending habits. No one knows how to save for a rainy day. In many ways this credit crunch will help reform the people as well as the system, which could end up being a blessing in diguise. Another problem with our economy is why is all of our clothing, shoes, most of our daily purchases is made from other country's. Where are the American company's at. If we had more company's making our daily products we would have a lower unemployment rate. So why tax some of these company's more if they have some work here and some work overseas. Why not give them tax breaks to keep their work here. If they are getting taxed they aren't making profits unless they jack up their prices which kills the consumer.

Another problem is we need to stop blaming other countries for stuff. For example, it is the USA companies who are moving jobs outside the country. It is not other countries' fault they are getting jobs because they have lower wages. The USA companies are merely practicing capitalism. USA CEOs are paid to increase shareholder value so they could careless about jobs here if it hurts the bottom line. Either government give these companies more incentives to hire USA workers or they will continue to go overseas. USA is merely experience global economic equalization. It is capitalism at its best. You are right governments have to give much incentives for USA companies to keep jobs here.

Here is a scary statistic. People in China save average of 30% to 40% of their income despite having lower wages. In USA last year, people saved an average of -5% of their income. That's one of the root problems right there.

CyberBull Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

CyberBull Wrote:

animus Wrote:I can't support a man that wants to 'SPREAD THE WEALTH'. If I want to help people out I will. At least I get a chance to do it on my own now. With Obama's plan I get taxed to do the same thing. Eff that.

95% of Americans will see a tax cut.....95 PERCENT! To me that is the linchpin to this election. If Obama doesn't go back on his word, (see George Bush Sr) it will be a win for middle class America. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Secondly, its unfathomable stretch between Obama's tax plan and the supposed communism this country is on verge of entering if Obama gets elected.

The only way America is going to reinvent itself is to invest in itself in areas such as education, energy independence, gov't reform, ect...

Unfortunately, the only party with new ideas and talking about re-investing in the American middle class and our entire infrastructure is Obama's. Perhaps, McCain is too.....but his message is getting drowned out in the negative attack ads trying to turn Obama into Osama.

95% of Americans don't pay federal taxes. In fact between 35-40% pay none at all so guess what, it's impossible to cut their taxes. Essentailly Obama will be giving that 40% a free XBox every year in a redistribution program. What an amazing effect that will have on the middle class.

Do you have a source for that statement, or are you taking Lou Dobbs word for it....that "40% of Americans don't pay taxes"?

If that is true....that most Americans don't pay taxes....I want my money back!

Link: http://mediamatters.org/items/200810160021?f=h_latest

Income taxes, I thought it was understood since that is what Obama is talking about with his '$250,000.00' claim.

SF Husky Wrote:I actually saw this mortgage crisis coming 5 years ago. The houses prices kept going up while people's real income did not. The problem was lending practices were not regulated enough where banks were lending money out easily to idiots that have no business getting loans. People were getting loans to buy houses at 5% down and tried to flip them 6 months later for a huge profit.

This was the same thing happened to Japan in the 80's and it is the same thing happening now in the USA. Japan, btw, still has not got back in shape. Oh for those of you guys that don't know, Japan is 2nd largest economy in the world outside the USA.

The root problem in the USA is the educational system, especially in the grades 1-12. Our educational system is pathetic. We are one of the worst comparing to other industrial nations. Our schools don't teach our kids anything outside of the USA, so most kids growing up here know nothing about other countries other than the usual blind America is the best attitude. These problems will be issues in the next generation. In addition, our culture promotes athletes as superstars while making fun of PHDs and smart people. They are being called nerds and all kinds of unflattering titles while sports stars are being worshiped like gods. As a result, no kids here want to be engineers or scientists. Over 50% of USA engineers came from foreign countries. Trust me, this will catch up to USA someday. At end of the day, it is the scientists and engineers that make things better and more efficient. We forget sometimes athletes are just entertainers and nothing else. As a huge sports fan, I do understand this and many Americans don't.

Obama understands one of the key problems is our educational system. You can blame Fannie, Freddie or whatever, but the root of the problem is our culture. We promote behaviors that don't save, spend a ton, spend on useless crap, self fulfillment, Britney Spears, ignorance, entitlement issues and many other useless crap.

How do you fix the educational system? Throw more money at it? The public schools are out performed by parochial schools by leaps and bounds when the parochial school system spends far less per student.

The problem isn't the schools; it's the culture that teaches something for nothing is a way of life. It's the parents who want to give up parenting to the school system. It's a culture that encourages living beyond your means, instant gratification, sex without consequence and thus less responsibility to the individual and more to the government.

CyberBull Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:

CyberBull Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:1) And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.

2) "Spread the wealth"

...but you didn't answer the question, why is it that anyone who disagrees with right wing conservatives considered unpatriotic, leftists or liberals? Should we investigate all liberals to see if they are "pro-america" as the senator from Minnesota suggested yesterday afternoon.

I took out any reference to names in the above.

Which quote deals with Marxist/Socialist/Communist teachings?

#1 or #2?

I can't answer that question b/c it fundamentally wrong b/c you are trying to paint JFK as a conservative. JFK was considered for more left than Obama. Ironic how he was attacked for many of the same things Obama is now facing...

JFK was more 'conservative' than McCain.