RUmojo Wrote:I read an article a few weeks ago that talked about how many BCS schools made it to the NCAA tournament, the sweet 16, elite 8, and final 4 since the BCS was formed. Of course the BCS conferences dominated the numbers. What I found interesting is that schools like Villanova, Georgetown, and Marquette had a star next to their names and at the bottom of the page was the note, affiliate members of a BCS conference. That was the point I was trying to make earlier, the bball schools are viewed as BCS status without having to make the financial comittment that a true BCS school has to make. ccbfan is right, talk to any bball school and they love this set up.

It is for that reason they are parasites, and Tranghese is their patron saint.

frogman Wrote:Everyone knows there will be a split. It's better for both sides. The BB only schools don't need the FB schools to be happy. They're not making money with the FB schools being here.

Not true. It's the combination of the markets the bb schools are in (Philly, DC, Chicago, Milwaukee) PLUS the pull of the major football schools top bb programs (UConn, Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, Cincinnati, and West Virginia) that result in the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

In addition check out the attendance figures for the bb schools by games. In the majority of cases the bigger draws tend to be the football schools - ND included in this, not their brother bb schools - even when those bb schools are doing well.

Less from TV contracts and less in ticket sales are just two of the reasons why they won't split on their own.

Quote:In either case is the coaches were not saying the BE is in shambles. They were saying there are problems. The ACC has not won a BCS game this century- do you hear Swofford saying hisconference has problems? But they do. They were in danger of losing their BCS bid before the raid and they're still not living up to expectation so far.
Every conference has issues.

Agreed.

Quote:If the Big10 Network is making the money they projected it would, they could raid the SEC for a 12 the team. MOney talks and every college is listening. In fact if the money was big enough, top BCS teams would ask the Big10 for an invite and make an argument why they are a better fit than Rutgers or Syr. or any BE team.

Well, according to some Big Ten sources some BIG NAME team did ask about membership back in 2003 - before the BTN was in play. Now that it is in play, that league could very well have some big name programs inquiring about possible membership.

Quote:We weren't raided last time because we were in shambles. We were raided because the ACC was in shambles. Miami's Shalayla lied. BC panicked. VT got state officials to step in and then reversed their lawsuit. Nobody needs to panic this time around. The sky is not falling just yet.

Well, it wasn't that the ACC was "in shambles" either, but they were about to be cut back on their ABC/ESPN football contract which was way overpriced - so that was going to seriously cut into their record topping per team conference payouts.

And even though their football contract is once again overpriced, they will probably luck out with both the Big 10 and SEC likely to have successful conference networks up and running by the time the next ACC contracts are negotiated.

Cheers,
Neil

frogman Wrote:Cuse has nothing in terms of market in Syracuse. The Big 10 wants NY and I guess our graduates, like myself, reside in NY or are native New YOrkers and the Lubin House for Cuse is in NY. But I don't see the Big10 wooing Syracuse. I think they go for Rutgers. I think Rutgers would be a big loss to the BE if they go.

Totally agree, and I think Rutgers would be a devastating loss.

ccbfan Wrote:I think the biggest fear of the basketball schools is losing the BCS tag.

From the outside looking in, I would agree. The non-football schools do have some nice heavyweights with Nova, G'town and Marquette. So they'd be fine on their own.

But long term, time would be on the Football schools side in comparison because the BE Hoops schools would begin to be listed as an "other" conference just like C-USA and the A-10 are now. There would still be a Big Six and the schools w/o football would no longer be a part of that association.

Which is a big reason why I see the obstinance at moving up to Division I football as being the same as the non-football schools wanting to cut their own throats.

Crimsonelf Wrote:

frogman Wrote:Cuse has nothing in terms of market in Syracuse. The Big 10 wants NY and I guess our graduates, like myself, reside in NY or are native New YOrkers and the Lubin House for Cuse is in NY. But I don't see the Big10 wooing Syracuse. I think they go for Rutgers. I think Rutgers would be a big loss to the BE if they go.

Totally agree, and I think Rutgers would be a devastating loss.

Loosing Trained Goose would be the most devestaing loss for the BE to date.

:goodnight:

No, lossing the BCS status or losing one of the current football teams would.

SilverPhoenix Wrote:I don't see how the BBall Schools lose in a spilt.

Give me a break. That's like a Democratic strategist telling the Republicans, "Go ahead and nominate Ron Paul, you can't lose!"

DFW HOYA Wrote:

SilverPhoenix Wrote:I don't see how the BBall Schools lose in a spilt.

Give me a break. That's like a Democratic strategist telling the Republicans, "Go ahead and nominate Ron Paul, you can't lose!"

Answer these three questions, Hoya?

Do you think a split should happen?
Do you think a split is going to happen?
And if it does happen, how does that combination not fufill the needs of the non-FBS schools?

And since were on answering questions, let me throw out another one for the whole floor to answer.

If the FBS schools split tomorrow will adding Memphis, ECU, UCF or any other eastern school with those three, produce enough incentive for any school to not leave for the Big 10, if called to to the Big 10? Cause for all we know, the FB Schools may be screwed, either way. Escpecially if the Big 10 Network is a total success. It may be too much money for anyone to ignore.

It's because of the prevailing everyone for himself attitude that has prevailed in the east since the dawn of time. The Ivy League is the only eastern conference that has been together enough to form rivalries that band them together by the shared struggles over Ivy League championships through the years. The SEC, Big 10, and Pac 10 have also formed such bonds. The Big 12 and ACC are well on the way. But each change made to conference membership weakens these bonds, and they need time to reform.

The BEast is at the bottom of this ladder among BCS conferences in this category too.

SilverPhoenix Wrote:Answer these three questions, Hoya?

1. Do you think a split should happen?
2. Do you think a split is going to happen?
3. And if it does happen, how does that combination not fufill the needs of the non-FBS schools?

1. No.
2. It might, but not in a clean 8-8 split, but some reaction to a school or two leaving the league on its own.
3. It's a very bad idea for non-IA schools because it places its athletic programs at risk if the TV and/or NCAA distribution is significantly less favorable. (FB analogy: ask yourself what the league would be like for you if the BCS bid was transferred to CUSA.)

SilverPhoenix Wrote:And since were on answering questions, let me throw out another one for the whole floor to answer. If the FBS schools split tomorrow will adding Memphis, ECU, UCF or any other eastern school with those three, produce enough incentive for any school to not leave for the Big 10, if called to to the Big 10? Cause for all we know, the FB Schools may be screwed, either way. Escpecially if the Big 10 Network is a total success. It may be too much money for anyone to ignore.

If the Big 10 calls, any BE school (except ND, of course) would go.

Of course, if the "musical chairs" scenario takes place (Missouri to Big 10, Ark to Big 12, etc.), an SEC spot may be up as well.

DFW Hoya, if a split happens, the BB schools will have caused it. We will protect our BCS status at all cost, the BCS status for the football schools is way more imoortant to them than BE basketball. Mike T. must remember that the football schools need two more member to be safe, The only solution is to go to 18 full members, ask two of Notre Dame, Providense, St. John's or Seton Hall to leave to stay at 16 teams, or split. But the football schools will protect their BCS status.

SilverPhoenix Wrote:

DFW HOYA Wrote:

SilverPhoenix Wrote:I don't see how the BBall Schools lose in a spilt.

Give me a break. That's like a Democratic strategist telling the Republicans, "Go ahead and nominate Ron Paul, you can't lose!"

Answer these three questions, Hoya?

Do you think a split should happen?
Do you think a split is going to happen?
And if it does happen, how does that combination not fufill the needs of the non-FBS schools?

And since were on answering questions, let me throw out another one for the whole floor to answer.

If the FBS schools split tomorrow will adding Memphis, ECU, UCF or any other eastern school with those three, produce enough incentive for any school to not leave for the Big 10, if called to to the Big 10? Cause for all we know, the FB Schools may be screwed, either way. Escpecially if the Big 10 Network is a total success. It may be too much money for anyone to ignore.

The flip side of the Big 10 network being a total success is that they probably wont need a 12th team which is great for the BE.

The reason that all of this talk started about the Big 10 expanding is so that they could make the Big 10 network more appealing so that it can be successfully picked up by cable tv operators. Delaney, the Big 10 commisioner said this when they were having problems getting distribution for the network. I got the feeling then that distribution of the Big 10 network, or lack there of, would fuel their expansion. Our best bet is to hope that the Big 10 network is a total success.

Wilkie01 Wrote:The only solution is to go to 18 full members, ask two of Notre Dame, Providense, St. John's or Seton Hall to leave to stay at 16 teams, or split. But the football schools will protect their BCS status.

There are better arguments than this. No one is going to lose the BCS status because of St. John's. And as it stands right now, neither CUSA not the MWC is strong enough to make a case to usurp the BE at this point.

A more persusasive argument is scheduling issues. Maybe the BE revisits football only affiliates, or maybe it waits for a school like DePaul to find another home and act then. But asking two of the four founding schools to turn in their keys and go willingly into obscurity for the presumed good of Memphis and UCF is not practical.

I dont see the BE asking a couple of members to leave but I also dont see DePaul or any other non football member choosing to leave on their own.
So it all goes back to is there anyone willing to accept a football only invite? If not, would that push the members to split?
I really see the basketabll playoffs as the key. If this current league is going to survive the league MUST get 8 teams yearly into NCAAs or it will not survive. There are too many big basketball programs in this 16 team league that cannot afford nor will they allow their programs to miss the NCAA's often after finishing with 17 or more wins.

If the B-10 ask BE team to join, there gone. However, 12 allsports BE with ND/EC hybrid might be able to hold off ACC, IF BE can't, it's all over any way.

Add Memphis and St Louis, if a team goes to the big 10, add central flordia...is it that hard?

To me the best step would be a 9 all sports members by adding Memphis. This satisfies schedule concerns, adds another bowl game and adds a very good basketball program. 12 football teams does not make financial sense unless Penn State and Notre Dame are amomg them.
I dont see the league getting rid of Notre Dame always hoping that they will add on down the road and they can keep Villanova and georgetown for what they bring in basketball and keep the eastern footprint TV wise.

So thats 12 for all sports but football
Syracuse
UConn
South Florida
Cinncinati
Pittsburg
Rutgers
West Virginia
Louisville
Memphis
Notre Dame
Georgetown
Villanova

here it is, settle it at the gaaaaden!!!

Metro-
Memphis
Marquette
DePaul
Notre Dame
Louisville
Cincinnati
Pitt
West Virginia
South Florida
East-
UConn
Syracuse
St. John's
Georgetown
Villanova
Rutgers
Seton Hall
Providence
UMass

Perfect 10 schools if the Novacats moved up. I like blusox idea of St. Louis too.

Oh, and the A10, CUSA, and MountainWest are MAJOR basketball conferences regardless of BCS tags.