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Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - q5sys - 02-26-2017 01:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gzFZ4Fcbe0
Sorry about the adds in the video, I didn't make it.
Additional reading for sources he discusses.
Transgender people face alarmingly high risk of suicide
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/16/transgender-individuals-face-high-rates--suicide-attempts/31626633/
The Truth About Transgender Suicide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/the-truth-about-transgend_b_8564834.html
Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
Transgender Regret Is Real Even If The Media Tell You Otherwise
http://thefederalist.com/2015/08/19/transgender-regret-is-real-even-if-the-media-tell-you-otherwise/
The Transgender Suicide Rate Isn’t Due To Discrimination
http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/07/evidence-the-transgender-suicide-rate-isnt-due-to-discrimination/
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Tom in Lazybrook - 02-26-2017 01:58 PM
(02-26-2017 01:32 PM)q5sys Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gzFZ4Fcbe0
Sorry about the adds in the video, I didn't make it.
Additional reading for sources he discusses.
Transgender people face alarmingly high risk of suicide
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/16/transgender-individuals-face-high-rates--suicide-attempts/31626633/
The Truth About Transgender Suicide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/the-truth-about-transgend_b_8564834.html
Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
Transgender Regret Is Real Even If The Media Tell You Otherwise
http://thefederalist.com/2015/08/19/transgender-regret-is-real-even-if-the-media-tell-you-otherwise/
The Transgender Suicide Rate Isn’t Due To Discrimination
http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/07/evidence-the-transgender-suicide-rate-isnt-due-to-discrimination/
Ben Shapiro is an extremist. Can you try some links from people who don't have a clear history of anti-GLBT animus?
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Kronke - 02-26-2017 02:06 PM
(02-26-2017 01:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Ben Shapiro is an extremist.
bahahahaha
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - q5sys - 02-26-2017 02:06 PM
(02-26-2017 01:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Ben Shapiro is an extremist. Can you try some links from people who don't have a clear history of anti-GLBT animus?
I dont care who he is or what his personal opinions are, he stated things that he claimed were facts. I found sources for what he stated from various places online.
I'm not going to disregard valid information just because I may or may not agree with the person stating it. I may or may not like you, (i dont know enough about you to make that conclusion) but I will judge your words independent of my opinion of you.
People I dont like can sometimes have great points to make, and it would be immature and irresponsible of me to disregard the point just because I dont like the person.
Quote:Ben Shapiro is an extremist.
In the world of Identity politics are we allowed to say that? He's a Jew, doesn't that make him a protected class, and thus saying anything negative about him = being an anti-Semite?
I'm only asking because the rules of public discourse seem to be changing rapidly these days, and it seems that criticizing someone who's in a social group that you are not apart becomes an issue of racism, xenophobia, etc.
A few days ago on another forum I expressed that I didn't agree with Ben on a few key issues, and I was instantly told... 'You are just a racist who's attacking a Jewish person.'
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Tom in Lazybrook - 02-26-2017 02:09 PM
(02-26-2017 02:06 PM)q5sys Wrote:(02-26-2017 01:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Ben Shapiro is an extremist. Can you try some links from people who don't have a clear history of anti-GLBT animus?
I dont care who he is or what his personal opinions are, he stated things that he claimed were facts. I found sources for what he stated from various places online.
I'm not going to disregard valid information just because I may or may not agree with the person stating it. I may or may not like you, (i dont know enough about you to make that conclusion) but I will judge your words independent of my opinion of you.
People I dont like can sometimes have great points to make, and it would be immature and irresponsible of me to disregard the point just because I dont like the person.
Quote:Ben Shapiro is an extremist.
In the world of Identity politics are we allowed to say that? He's a Jew, doesn't that make him a protected class, and thus saying anything negative about him = being an anti-Semite?
I'm only asking because the rules of public discourse seem to be changing rapidly these days, and it seems that criticizing someone who's in a social group that you are not apart becomes an issue of racism, xenophobia, etc.
A few days ago on another forum I expressed that I didn't agree with Ben on a few key issues, and I was instantly told... 'You are just a racist who's attacking a Jewish person.'
Look, where is the evidence from people who don't appear to be consumed with animus towards the LGBT community?
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - nutbushtiger - 02-26-2017 02:12 PM
Still don't understand all the confusion, you got a dick you use the men's room, get rid of it and you can help yourselves to the ladies room, its that easy.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Tom in Lazybrook - 02-26-2017 02:15 PM
(02-26-2017 02:12 PM)nutbushtiger Wrote: Still don't understand all the confusion, you got a dick you use the men's room, get rid of it and you can help yourselves to the ladies room, its that easy.
The GOP doesn't want that.
In your state of Tennessee, the GOP passed legislation prohibiting transitioned females or males from ever being recognized as their gender.
In NC, the GOP passed legislation mandating that fully transitioned men born in North Carolina to use the ladies room. (in TN, OH, KS, and ID you cannot amend your birth certificate or change genders ever, and NC's law uses birth certificate).
They don't want to keep men out of the ladies room, they MANDATE it in certain cases.
And DJT walked into a little girls changing room to perve out on little girls changing.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - q5sys - 02-26-2017 02:21 PM
(02-26-2017 02:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:(02-26-2017 02:06 PM)q5sys Wrote:(02-26-2017 01:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Ben Shapiro is an extremist. Can you try some links from people who don't have a clear history of anti-GLBT animus?
I dont care who he is or what his personal opinions are, he stated things that he claimed were facts. I found sources for what he stated from various places online.
I'm not going to disregard valid information just because I may or may not agree with the person stating it. I may or may not like you, (i dont know enough about you to make that conclusion) but I will judge your words independent of my opinion of you.
People I dont like can sometimes have great points to make, and it would be immature and irresponsible of me to disregard the point just because I dont like the person.
Quote:Ben Shapiro is an extremist.
In the world of Identity politics are we allowed to say that? He's a Jew, doesn't that make him a protected class, and thus saying anything negative about him = being an anti-Semite?
I'm only asking because the rules of public discourse seem to be changing rapidly these days, and it seems that criticizing someone who's in a social group that you are not apart becomes an issue of racism, xenophobia, etc.
A few days ago on another forum I expressed that I didn't agree with Ben on a few key issues, and I was instantly told... 'You are just a racist who's attacking a Jewish person.'
Look, where is the evidence from people who don't appear to be consumed with animus towards the LGBT community?
This is the exact problem. You keep framing the issue in a US vs THEM way. It's not a war, where there are two sides and you are either one or the other. You are creating this very problem by refusing to acknowledge that there are tons of people who are not anti-LGBT but don't agree with the narrative being pushed.
It's this constant 'US vs THEM' that is making people hostile to the issue in general. That needs to stop. My best friend is MtF trans. I didn't know this until about 3 years ago when I stopped by his house one day to visit his sister (they are twins and live together) and saw him walking around the house in a dress. I still consider him to be my best friend, there's just another side of him that I am getting to know.
But every time I make a statement with other people about something on this issue, I'm instantly throw into the 'hateful, anti-LGBT' camp. It's either 'I agree with the agenda' or 'I'm against trans people'. First off, the lumping together of trans people is a horrible thing to do. There is so much variation within the trans community, that trying to paint them all with the same brush is completely wrong. MtF and FtM face completely different issues in their lives and there is not one solution that will fix everything for everyone.
People need to be seen and treated as individuals, not as a nebulous arch-type. The reason it's impossible to find "evidence from people who don't appear to be consumed with animus towards the LGBT community", is because the LGBT community frames everyone that doesn't agree with them as hateful. This way they can instantly disregard anything they dont agree with by shooting the messenger and claiming "Only people with hateful agendas ever have anything bad to say."
This would be like you and I playing poker... me stacking the deck in my favor... and then using me winning as proof that I'm a better poker player than you.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - nutbushtiger - 02-26-2017 02:24 PM
(02-26-2017 02:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:(02-26-2017 02:12 PM)nutbushtiger Wrote: Still don't understand all the confusion, you got a dick you use the men's room, get rid of it and you can help yourselves to the ladies room, its that easy.
The GOP doesn't want that.
In your state of Tennessee, the GOP passed legislation prohibiting transitioned females or males from ever being recognized as their gender.
In NC, the GOP passed legislation mandating that fully transitioned men born in North Carolina to use the ladies room. (in TN, OH, KS, and ID you cannot amend your birth certificate or change genders ever, and NC's law uses birth certificate).
They don't want to keep men out of the ladies room, they MANDATE it in certain cases.
And DJT walked into a little girls changing room to perve out on little girls changing.
Every state has the right to choose what they want to do when it comes to this issue, and anyone who doesn't agree with it and feels their life will be turned upside down because of it has the freedom to move to another state that is more inline with their lifestyle choices.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Tom in Lazybrook - 02-26-2017 03:09 PM
(02-26-2017 02:24 PM)nutbushtiger Wrote:(02-26-2017 02:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:(02-26-2017 02:12 PM)nutbushtiger Wrote: Still don't understand all the confusion, you got a dick you use the men's room, get rid of it and you can help yourselves to the ladies room, its that easy.
The GOP doesn't want that.
In your state of Tennessee, the GOP passed legislation prohibiting transitioned females or males from ever being recognized as their gender.
In NC, the GOP passed legislation mandating that fully transitioned men born in North Carolina to use the ladies room. (in TN, OH, KS, and ID you cannot amend your birth certificate or change genders ever, and NC's law uses birth certificate).
They don't want to keep men out of the ladies room, they MANDATE it in certain cases.
And DJT walked into a little girls changing room to perve out on little girls changing.
Every state has the right to choose what they want to do when it comes to this issue, and anyone who doesn't agree with it and feels their life will be turned upside down because of it has the freedom to move to another state that is more inline with their lifestyle choices.
But cities don't apparently.
Why should someone have to move to have civil rights?
But I'd like you to comment on YOUR GOP leadership in Tennessee, which mandates that men with penises use the ladies room.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Fo Shizzle - 02-26-2017 03:27 PM
(02-26-2017 01:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:(02-26-2017 01:32 PM)q5sys Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gzFZ4Fcbe0
Sorry about the adds in the video, I didn't make it.
Additional reading for sources he discusses.
Transgender people face alarmingly high risk of suicide
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/16/transgender-individuals-face-high-rates--suicide-attempts/31626633/
The Truth About Transgender Suicide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/the-truth-about-transgend_b_8564834.html
Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
Transgender Regret Is Real Even If The Media Tell You Otherwise
http://thefederalist.com/2015/08/19/transgender-regret-is-real-even-if-the-media-tell-you-otherwise/
The Transgender Suicide Rate Isn’t Due To Discrimination
http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/07/evidence-the-transgender-suicide-rate-isnt-due-to-discrimination/
Ben Shapiro is an extremist. Can you try some links from people who don't have a clear history of anti-GLBT animus?
Everyone that disagrees with your far left view of this topic is an extremist.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Tom in Lazybrook - 02-26-2017 03:33 PM
(02-26-2017 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(02-26-2017 01:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:(02-26-2017 01:32 PM)q5sys Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gzFZ4Fcbe0
Sorry about the adds in the video, I didn't make it.
Additional reading for sources he discusses.
Transgender people face alarmingly high risk of suicide
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/16/transgender-individuals-face-high-rates--suicide-attempts/31626633/
The Truth About Transgender Suicide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/the-truth-about-transgend_b_8564834.html
Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
Transgender Regret Is Real Even If The Media Tell You Otherwise
http://thefederalist.com/2015/08/19/transgender-regret-is-real-even-if-the-media-tell-you-otherwise/
The Transgender Suicide Rate Isn’t Due To Discrimination
http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/07/evidence-the-transgender-suicide-rate-isnt-due-to-discrimination/
Ben Shapiro is an extremist. Can you try some links from people who don't have a clear history of anti-GLBT animus?
Everyone that disagrees with your far left view of this topic is an extremist.
Again, any links from people who aren't consumed by Anti-Trans views?
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Kaplony - 02-26-2017 03:47 PM
(02-26-2017 03:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:(02-26-2017 02:24 PM)nutbushtiger Wrote:(02-26-2017 02:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:(02-26-2017 02:12 PM)nutbushtiger Wrote: Still don't understand all the confusion, you got a dick you use the men's room, get rid of it and you can help yourselves to the ladies room, its that easy.
The GOP doesn't want that.
In your state of Tennessee, the GOP passed legislation prohibiting transitioned females or males from ever being recognized as their gender.
In NC, the GOP passed legislation mandating that fully transitioned men born in North Carolina to use the ladies room. (in TN, OH, KS, and ID you cannot amend your birth certificate or change genders ever, and NC's law uses birth certificate).
They don't want to keep men out of the ladies room, they MANDATE it in certain cases.
And DJT walked into a little girls changing room to perve out on little girls changing.
Every state has the right to choose what they want to do when it comes to this issue, and anyone who doesn't agree with it and feels their life will be turned upside down because of it has the freedom to move to another state that is more inline with their lifestyle choices.
But cities don't apparently.
Why should someone have to move to have civil rights?
But I'd like you to comment on YOUR GOP leadership in Tennessee, which mandates that men with penises use the ladies room.
They aren't. They are mandating that mentally ill females who mutilated their body use the ladies room.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - q5sys - 02-26-2017 03:57 PM
(02-26-2017 03:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Why should someone have to move to have civil rights?
Since when is it a right to be able to use the bathroom while in public?
Offering bathrooms to people in public is a courtesy not a requirement. This is why there are places that dont offer public restrooms. Even in gov buildings, it's not a requirement, The Comptroller of Maryland office near me doesn't have bathrooms for public use, they are employee only.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Fo Shizzle - 02-26-2017 06:44 PM
(02-26-2017 03:57 PM)q5sys Wrote:(02-26-2017 03:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Why should someone have to move to have civil rights?
Since when is it a right to be able to use the bathroom while in public?
Offering bathrooms to people in public is a courtesy not a requirement. This is why there are places that dont offer public restrooms. Even in gov buildings, it's not a requirement, The Comptroller of Maryland office near me doesn't have bathrooms for public use, they are employee only.
This issue is a smokescreen for the radical left to impose its will on everyone. It has nothing to do with bathrooms. The gender confused had already figured this issue out on their own with any government help. In fact?...All this did was make it harder on them by bringing attention to it.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Bull_Is_Back - 02-26-2017 07:13 PM
(02-26-2017 02:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Look, where is the evidence from people who don't appear to be consumed with animus towards the LGBT community?
The problem, Tom, is that you catagorize anyone who does not completely agree with you as having "animus towards the LGBT community".
Just like you file gay's who disagree with you politically away as "not really gay, just homosexual".
You are the crown prince of the no true scottsman argument.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Fo Shizzle - 02-26-2017 07:56 PM
(02-26-2017 07:13 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:(02-26-2017 02:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Look, where is the evidence from people who don't appear to be consumed with animus towards the LGBT community?
The problem, Tom, is that you catagorize anyone who does not completely agree with you as having "animus towards the LGBT community".
Just like you file gay's who disagree with you politically away as "not really gay, just homosexual".
You are the crown prince of the no true scottsman argument.
The LGB needs to be dropped in this conversation anyway. It has nothing to do with that demographic.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Tom in Lazybrook - 02-26-2017 10:36 PM
(02-26-2017 03:57 PM)q5sys Wrote:(02-26-2017 03:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Why should someone have to move to have civil rights?
Since when is it a right to be able to use the bathroom while in public?
Offering bathrooms to people in public is a courtesy not a requirement. This is why there are places that dont offer public restrooms. Even in gov buildings, it's not a requirement, The Comptroller of Maryland office near me doesn't have bathrooms for public use, they are employee only.
If you allow cisgendered persons to use the restroom consistent with their gender identity, then you must allow them for transgendered persons.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - Tom in Lazybrook - 02-26-2017 10:37 PM
(02-26-2017 07:56 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:(02-26-2017 07:13 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:(02-26-2017 02:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Look, where is the evidence from people who don't appear to be consumed with animus towards the LGBT community?
The problem, Tom, is that you catagorize anyone who does not completely agree with you as having "animus towards the LGBT community".
Just like you file gay's who disagree with you politically away as "not really gay, just homosexual".
You are the crown prince of the no true scottsman argument.
The LGB needs to be dropped in this conversation anyway. It has nothing to do with that demographic.
Every time we try to pass a LGB employment non-discrimination bill, we get the bathroom scare even if we specifically strip it out. So yes, its related, because the anti-Gays keep using the Trans issues to try and whip up hatred against us/support for discrimination.
RE: Ben Shapiro uses logic on Transgender Arguments - q5sys - 02-27-2017 02:12 PM
(02-26-2017 10:36 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:(02-26-2017 03:57 PM)q5sys Wrote:(02-26-2017 03:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Why should someone have to move to have civil rights?
Since when is it a right to be able to use the bathroom while in public?
Offering bathrooms to people in public is a courtesy not a requirement. This is why there are places that dont offer public restrooms. Even in gov buildings, it's not a requirement, The Comptroller of Maryland office near me doesn't have bathrooms for public use, they are employee only.
If you allow cisgendered persons to use the restroom consistent with their gender identity, then you must allow them for transgendered persons.
You claimed this is a 'right'. What is your basis for that statement?
Example, if a gym can legally restrict it's customers to females only (there are a few around here, and they've been upheld in court)... why would they not be able to control bathroom privileges in their establishment.
The courts have ruled that private businesses may discriminate offering ANY services based on sex of the customer. Why is bathroom use any different?
What legal framework declares the right of bathroom use while simultaneously allowing a business to discriminate customers based on sex?