In Popes defense, Hurley only went to two tourneys in 8 years prior to UConn. Now he did win two first round games but is two first round tournament victories really the difference between a home hire and a dud? Guess we’ll find out.

At the least, we should give Pope two or three seasons before describing this hire as bad.

(04-12-2024 04:50 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  At the least, we should give Pope two or three seasons before describing this hire as bad.

True, but you have to admit, it's not the hire that most UK fans expected when Calipari bolted.

love this- Pope had mentioned something about it at the presser yesterday.

If this guy can coach as well as he gives pressers, Kentucky will be in good hands.

(04-12-2024 03:38 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 01:49 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 11:42 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 09:22 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Yeah I can't blame them for rioting about this either. My view on hiring alums as a coach is if you removed the fact that he was an alum would he be a legit candidate. If you took away alum status from Pope he wouldn't even be in the top 30 candidates.

I actually think he would have been in the top 30. His name has been bounced around for jobs recently, including the USC job. The fact that he played at Kentucky, was the captain of the 1996 national championship team, was a second round NBA draft pick and played in the NBA puts him in the top five of realistic choices.

Pope did a great job at BYU and UVU, two places where NBA talent does not flock to. BYU has not had a player drafted into the NBA since 2011. UVU never has. BYU has never been to a Final Four, has not been to an Elite 8 since 1981 and only one Sweet 16 since 1981. At Kentucky, he will have no problem getting future NBA talent. He knows what he is walking into. He knows what the expectations are. He has been there. He is a good choice.

A guy who's made 2 tournaments in 9 seasons, never won a tournament game, never won a conference regular season or tournament title would not be in the top 50 choices if he was not captain of the 96 championship team. Hopefully for them it works, because having to fire the under qualified legend alum coach for sucking destroys your fan base all around.

Over the past seven seasons, Pope won an average of just under 23 games per season. At schools that don't recruit top talent. He has proven that he can coach. I know fans want to see Sweet 16 appearances, and conference championships, but the lack of that does not mean you are not a quality head coach. The college basketball world knows about Pope, but he does not have the accomplishments that Drew, or other coaches have. Places like BYU and UVU are hard to win at. It is not the same world as other schools. But Pope did have wins this season over Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, and Texas. I think he is a top 30 coach and a top 5 coach for realistic candidates at UK.

Pope by most standards is a good coach, but if I were a fan of arguably the best college basketball program in the country with money to make the next guy the highest paid coach in all of college sports (not just hoops) I'd be pretty rightfully annoyed we hired a guy with his resume. If he were not a Kentucky Hoops legend captain of the national title team he'd never have been a serious candidate. There are a lot of resumes in between the group they got turned down by (yes massive swings which they should take) and Pope. Hiring an alum to be your coach in general is always risky IMO. The vast majority of the time coaching hires end badly, either the guy gets fired or leaves for a better job, and if you have to fire a beloved alum there's always going to be a segment of the fan base that's very angry about that decision. If you do something as moronic as ECU did in football and fire a beloved alum unjustly you can destroy your fan base to the point it might never recover. At least IMO it's better to have a coach who's just a coach, just an employee, because the relationship is almost always going to end badly in some way.

(04-15-2024 10:09 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 03:38 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 01:49 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 11:42 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 09:22 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Yeah I can't blame them for rioting about this either. My view on hiring alums as a coach is if you removed the fact that he was an alum would he be a legit candidate. If you took away alum status from Pope he wouldn't even be in the top 30 candidates.

I actually think he would have been in the top 30. His name has been bounced around for jobs recently, including the USC job. The fact that he played at Kentucky, was the captain of the 1996 national championship team, was a second round NBA draft pick and played in the NBA puts him in the top five of realistic choices.

Pope did a great job at BYU and UVU, two places where NBA talent does not flock to. BYU has not had a player drafted into the NBA since 2011. UVU never has. BYU has never been to a Final Four, has not been to an Elite 8 since 1981 and only one Sweet 16 since 1981. At Kentucky, he will have no problem getting future NBA talent. He knows what he is walking into. He knows what the expectations are. He has been there. He is a good choice.

A guy who's made 2 tournaments in 9 seasons, never won a tournament game, never won a conference regular season or tournament title would not be in the top 50 choices if he was not captain of the 96 championship team. Hopefully for them it works, because having to fire the under qualified legend alum coach for sucking destroys your fan base all around.

Over the past seven seasons, Pope won an average of just under 23 games per season. At schools that don't recruit top talent. He has proven that he can coach. I know fans want to see Sweet 16 appearances, and conference championships, but the lack of that does not mean you are not a quality head coach. The college basketball world knows about Pope, but he does not have the accomplishments that Drew, or other coaches have. Places like BYU and UVU are hard to win at. It is not the same world as other schools. But Pope did have wins this season over Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, and Texas. I think he is a top 30 coach and a top 5 coach for realistic candidates at UK.

Pope by most standards is a good coach, but if I were a fan of arguably the best college basketball program in the country with money to make the next guy the highest paid coach in all of college sports (not just hoops) I'd be pretty rightfully annoyed we hired a guy with his resume. If he were not a Kentucky Hoops legend captain of the national title team he'd never have been a serious candidate. There are a lot of resumes in between the group they got turned down by (yes massive swings which they should take) and Pope. Hiring an alum to be your coach in general is always risky IMO. The vast majority of the time coaching hires end badly, either the guy gets fired or leaves for a better job, and if you have to fire a beloved alum there's always going to be a segment of the fan base that's very angry about that decision. If you do something as moronic as ECU did in football and fire a beloved alum unjustly you can destroy your fan base to the point it might never recover. At least IMO it's better to have a coach who's just a coach, just an employee, because the relationship is almost always going to end badly in some way.

Calipari is a Naismith Hall of Fame Coach and a three-time Naismith Coach of the Year winner. He has 855 career wins. It was going to be difficult to replace that. I am sure that they would love to have Scott Drew or Jay Wright or Danny Hurley or Billy Donovan, but that did not work out. There are a lot of coaches that are happy where they are at or just don't want the Kentucky job. Pope is just a coach that happened to be the captain on a Kentucky national championship team. I just don't see how that hurts him.

(04-12-2024 05:07 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 04:50 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  At the least, we should give Pope two or three seasons before describing this hire as bad.

True, but you have to admit, it's not the hire that most UK fans expected when Calipari bolted.

Correct, good sir.

(04-15-2024 12:39 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-15-2024 10:09 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 03:38 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 01:49 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 11:42 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  I actually think he would have been in the top 30. His name has been bounced around for jobs recently, including the USC job. The fact that he played at Kentucky, was the captain of the 1996 national championship team, was a second round NBA draft pick and played in the NBA puts him in the top five of realistic choices.

Pope did a great job at BYU and UVU, two places where NBA talent does not flock to. BYU has not had a player drafted into the NBA since 2011. UVU never has. BYU has never been to a Final Four, has not been to an Elite 8 since 1981 and only one Sweet 16 since 1981. At Kentucky, he will have no problem getting future NBA talent. He knows what he is walking into. He knows what the expectations are. He has been there. He is a good choice.

A guy who's made 2 tournaments in 9 seasons, never won a tournament game, never won a conference regular season or tournament title would not be in the top 50 choices if he was not captain of the 96 championship team. Hopefully for them it works, because having to fire the under qualified legend alum coach for sucking destroys your fan base all around.

Over the past seven seasons, Pope won an average of just under 23 games per season. At schools that don't recruit top talent. He has proven that he can coach. I know fans want to see Sweet 16 appearances, and conference championships, but the lack of that does not mean you are not a quality head coach. The college basketball world knows about Pope, but he does not have the accomplishments that Drew, or other coaches have. Places like BYU and UVU are hard to win at. It is not the same world as other schools. But Pope did have wins this season over Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, and Texas. I think he is a top 30 coach and a top 5 coach for realistic candidates at UK.

Pope by most standards is a good coach, but if I were a fan of arguably the best college basketball program in the country with money to make the next guy the highest paid coach in all of college sports (not just hoops) I'd be pretty rightfully annoyed we hired a guy with his resume. If he were not a Kentucky Hoops legend captain of the national title team he'd never have been a serious candidate. There are a lot of resumes in between the group they got turned down by (yes massive swings which they should take) and Pope. Hiring an alum to be your coach in general is always risky IMO. The vast majority of the time coaching hires end badly, either the guy gets fired or leaves for a better job, and if you have to fire a beloved alum there's always going to be a segment of the fan base that's very angry about that decision. If you do something as moronic as ECU did in football and fire a beloved alum unjustly you can destroy your fan base to the point it might never recover. At least IMO it's better to have a coach who's just a coach, just an employee, because the relationship is almost always going to end badly in some way.

Calipari is a Naismith Hall of Fame Coach and a three-time Naismith Coach of the Year winner. He has 855 career wins. It was going to be difficult to replace that. I am sure that they would love to have Scott Drew or Jay Wright or Danny Hurley or Billy Donovan, but that did not work out. There are a lot of coaches that are happy where they are at or just don't want the Kentucky job. Pope is just a coach that happened to be the captain on a Kentucky national championship team. I just don't see how that hurts him.

Well put.

how incredible is this?

and there's more from him-
To take it a step further: this is the first time since March 20, 1942 that neither Louisville nor Kentucky are led by a coach with a Final Four on his resume. That spans almost the entire life of the NCAA Tournament, which began in 1939.

(04-15-2024 07:53 PM)stever20 Wrote:  how incredible is this?

and there's more from him-
To take it a step further: this is the first time since March 20, 1942 that neither Louisville nor Kentucky are led by a coach with a Final Four on his resume. That spans almost the entire life of the NCAA Tournament, which began in 1939.

One day later, on March 27, 1978, Joe B. Hall coached Kentucky to a victory over Duke for the national championship. Two years later, Denny Crum coached Louisville to a victory over UCLA to win the national championship. Kentucky that season had to beat Michigan State led by Magic Johnson in the Elite 8, Arkansas led by Sidney Moncrief in the semifinals and Duke led by Jim Spanarkel, Mike Gminski, and Gene Banks. That Kentucky team was led by Jack Givens, Rick Robey and Kyle Macy. There was some really good college basketball being played back in those days.

(04-15-2024 08:33 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-15-2024 07:53 PM)stever20 Wrote:  how incredible is this?

and there's more from him-
To take it a step further: this is the first time since March 20, 1942 that neither Louisville nor Kentucky are led by a coach with a Final Four on his resume. That spans almost the entire life of the NCAA Tournament, which began in 1939.

One day later, on March 27, 1978, Joe B. Hall coached Kentucky to a victory over Duke for the national championship. Two years later, Denny Crum coached Louisville to a victory over UCLA to win the national championship. Kentucky that season had to beat Michigan State led by Magic Johnson in the Elite 8, Arkansas led by Sidney Moncrief in the semifinals and Duke led by Jim Spanarkel, Mike Gminski, and Gene Banks. That Kentucky team was led by Jack Givens, Rick Robey and Kyle Macy. There was some really good college basketball being played back in those days.

That UK team was lead by 4 seniors who had played together for 4 years (Givens, Robey, Mike Phillips, James Lee along with a Sophomore point guard transfer (Kyle Macy) and a Jr. guard (Truman Claytor). The seniors had been to the final in 1975 vs. UCLA in Woodens last game, won the NIT in 76 and lost in the regional finals in 77 to Dean Smith's 4 corners, when he stalled the last 15 minutes of the game as UK was making a run after a dominating first half by Carolina. Carolina hit something like 38 of 39 free throws and UK scored every time they had the ball the first 16 minutes or so of the 2nd half. They missed one chance to tie and never had another chance.

The Michigan St. game was the close one, 52-49. They dominated Duke in the final, going up over 20 points much of the 2nd half until they sent the reserves in with about 5 minutes to go. Duke cut it to 4 points with about 10 seconds left, so UK had to put the starters back in and they did a long inbounds and a dunk to finish it off.

(04-15-2024 12:39 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-15-2024 10:09 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 03:38 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 01:49 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 11:42 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  I actually think he would have been in the top 30. His name has been bounced around for jobs recently, including the USC job. The fact that he played at Kentucky, was the captain of the 1996 national championship team, was a second round NBA draft pick and played in the NBA puts him in the top five of realistic choices.

Pope did a great job at BYU and UVU, two places where NBA talent does not flock to. BYU has not had a player drafted into the NBA since 2011. UVU never has. BYU has never been to a Final Four, has not been to an Elite 8 since 1981 and only one Sweet 16 since 1981. At Kentucky, he will have no problem getting future NBA talent. He knows what he is walking into. He knows what the expectations are. He has been there. He is a good choice.

A guy who's made 2 tournaments in 9 seasons, never won a tournament game, never won a conference regular season or tournament title would not be in the top 50 choices if he was not captain of the 96 championship team. Hopefully for them it works, because having to fire the under qualified legend alum coach for sucking destroys your fan base all around.

Over the past seven seasons, Pope won an average of just under 23 games per season. At schools that don't recruit top talent. He has proven that he can coach. I know fans want to see Sweet 16 appearances, and conference championships, but the lack of that does not mean you are not a quality head coach. The college basketball world knows about Pope, but he does not have the accomplishments that Drew, or other coaches have. Places like BYU and UVU are hard to win at. It is not the same world as other schools. But Pope did have wins this season over Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, and Texas. I think he is a top 30 coach and a top 5 coach for realistic candidates at UK.

Pope by most standards is a good coach, but if I were a fan of arguably the best college basketball program in the country with money to make the next guy the highest paid coach in all of college sports (not just hoops) I'd be pretty rightfully annoyed we hired a guy with his resume. If he were not a Kentucky Hoops legend captain of the national title team he'd never have been a serious candidate. There are a lot of resumes in between the group they got turned down by (yes massive swings which they should take) and Pope. Hiring an alum to be your coach in general is always risky IMO. The vast majority of the time coaching hires end badly, either the guy gets fired or leaves for a better job, and if you have to fire a beloved alum there's always going to be a segment of the fan base that's very angry about that decision. If you do something as moronic as ECU did in football and fire a beloved alum unjustly you can destroy your fan base to the point it might never recover. At least IMO it's better to have a coach who's just a coach, just an employee, because the relationship is almost always going to end badly in some way.

Calipari is a Naismith Hall of Fame Coach and a three-time Naismith Coach of the Year winner. He has 855 career wins. It was going to be difficult to replace that. I am sure that they would love to have Scott Drew or Jay Wright or Danny Hurley or Billy Donovan, but that did not work out. There are a lot of coaches that are happy where they are at or just don't want the Kentucky job. Pope is just a coach that happened to be the captain on a Kentucky national championship team. I just don't see how that hurts him.

Absolutely they would have, they correctly tried for that type of hire, and it didn't work. However, there's probably a list of 20-30 other coaches with resumes in between that group that told them no and Mark Pope, and I don't think it's a wild assumption to say some of them would have been willing to take the stupid amount of money UK was offering.

Maybe Pope is a better fit for UK than those guys with better resumes on paper, it's certainly possible. The being a Kentucky legend thing doesn't hurt him, I'm sure it can help in a lot of ways, but his resume is more a reflection of the actual coach he is and not just him being held down by coaching at places with limitations and they have to fire the legend captain of the national title team it's a disaster on a bunch of levels. Being forced to fire legendary alums is really bad, and having their legend status wrapped up into the needed cold hard calculation of if they are meeting expectations stinks. It can make you keep a guy who should be fired a year or 2 longer making the hole even deeper to dig out of. The even worse situation is what I saw ECU do with legendary beloved alum Ruff, if you get an AD who does something stupid and fires that guy too quickly you can permanently destroy your fan base. Maybe this is just PTSD in regards to how permanently ECU has fu*ked themselves with how they handled the Ruff situation, but I want nothing to do with hiring alums unless they are unquestionably qualified and would be if they went to your biggest rival.

(04-12-2024 10:37 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

Huge endorsement from the "Bear Bryant" of baaketball coaches, IMO!!!

(04-12-2024 08:02 AM)ken d Wrote:  I realize this goes against the conventional wisdom that Kentucky will always remain at or near the top of the MBB food chain, given their long and storied history, but I for one won't be completely surprised if their glory days are behind them.

Maybe Calipari's stature and recruiting ability have kept them propped up during his tenure, but if Pope proves to just be an average coach at this level, their recent decline might become a long term condition to the consternation of their die hard fans. They could well be the next Indiana. It's a new world out there.

I recall Alabama going through some times where they looked more like South Carolina in football than their normal dominating self. They did manage to get Nick Saban, but now Saban has gone, and 'Bama fans are wondering if they're going to be back at low Tide for awhile, pun fully intended!!
Kentucky is the basketball version of Alabama, IMO, and I can see them struggling just as 'Bama did for awhile until they catch " lightning in a bottle." Then again, maybe Mark Pope is "lightning in a bottle?"