All this administrative restructuring and politicking of the NSF is what Nebraska should have done 15-20 years ago. They were in the AAU; they had a better chance of convincing fellow members to give them more time to reform prior to the expulsion.

Now that they’re out of the AAU, their chances of getting back in the club aren’t great. The Midwest already has a lot of public universities in the AAU…Nebraska’s demographics are over represented in the AAU. In addition, there are public universities with larger NSF research portfolios (e.g., VT, NCSU, UGA). To get an invitation, Nebraska is no longer competing (or benchmarking) with the lower quartile of AAU universities.

(04-08-2024 11:47 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  All this administrative restructuring and politicking of the NSF is what Nebraska should have done 15-20 years ago. They were in the AAU; they had a better chance of convincing fellow members to give them more time to reform prior to the expulsion.

Now that they’re out of the AAU, their chances of getting back in the club aren’t great. The Midwest already has a lot of public universities in the AAU…Nebraska’s demographics are over represented in the AAU. In addition, there are public universities with larger NSF research portfolios (e.g., VT, NCSU, UGA). To get an invitation, Nebraska is no longer competing (or benchmarking) with the lower quartile of AAU universities.

I'll say this for what seems like the 100th time. The AAU doesn't care if a med school is combined under the same administrative structure for the purposes of branding and brochure optics if it is 50 miles away from the undergrad campus. When they are that far away, it does not effectively function as the same school, and that is what matters to them. USF combining campus reporting is not what got them into the AAU. USF's two other campuses are small (their marine campus is right across the bay in St. Pete) and have very little research.

It is also laughable that they are trying to motivate their constituency with some fear that Big Ten would kick them out. There is no chance that happens.

(04-08-2024 08:25 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:04 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I think that Nebraska benefited greatly from Texas recruitment, not just athletically but also for their general student body, back in their Big8/12 days. CU already made the decision to rejoin their Big 12 cousins; could Nebraska decide to rejoin their Big8/12 cousins in the SEC? Ironically, such a move could give them such a financial shot in the arm that it would increase their chances of returning to the AAU.

1. Would the SEC ever entertain adding someone like Nebraska when they have their sights set on adding Clemson and Florida State?

2. If Nebraska was to leave the BIG, who would the BIG add as their replacement?

1. Yes
2. No idea

(04-08-2024 08:47 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:04 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I think that Nebraska benefited greatly from Texas recruitment, not just athletically but also for their general student body, back in their Big8/12 days. CU already made the decision to rejoin their Big 12 cousins; could Nebraska decide to rejoin their Big8/12 cousins in the SEC? Ironically, such a move could give them such a financial shot in the arm that it would increase their chances of returning to the AAU.

Leaving the Big10 to the Big12 is a "financial shot in the arm"?

I'd like to hear how that is true.

Seriously.

I've started separate brainstorming threads on this concerning Missouri (to the Big12) and Maryland (to the ACC), and the idea was pretty universally panned both times.

I swear it made sense in my mind when I wrote it, but for Nebraska...they'll get the same TV ratings and attendance in either of the P2. Um, I think I was going for attendance increases there, and despite Frank's protestations, I'm confident that Nebraska would pull more Texas students if they were in the SEC than they pull from Illinois right now.

(04-08-2024 09:10 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:54 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:50 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 07:55 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  https://omaha.com/news/state-regional/ed...1ccb1.html

"Cutting programs? Merging campuses? Nebraska university leaders ponder bold changes to compete"

Quote:UNL has long badly lagged its Big Ten Conference peers in key academic metrics like attracting coveted research grants — so much so there has even been talk it could one day lose its place in the prestigious athletic conference. [...]

As the Big Ten expands next fall to 18 members with the addition of Washington, Oregon, Southern California and University of California-Los Angeles, UNL will stand out as the only Big Ten school that’s not a member of the AAU. Notably, the conference has long taken pride in that association and its strong collective academic reputation — a reason for concern about UNL's future Big Ten status.

Quote:The University of South Florida in 2020 consolidated its three separate campuses into a much larger, singularly accredited university. Three years later, USF was invited to join the AAU.

Quote:In his Dec. 21 memo, offering a final progress report to the regents before he left for Ohio State, Carter stressed that with the recent expansion of the Big Ten, readmission to the AAU was more important than ever.

On June 11, 2010, the selection of the University of Nebraska-Lincoln as the 12th member of the Big Ten Conference was announced on campus by league Commissioner Jim Delany, flanked by then-Athletic Director Tom Osborne, left, and university Chancellor Harvey Perlman.

He said the UNL campus, Husker athletics and the entire system have seen tremendous benefits from the association in the years since the Big Ten extended an invitation in 2010.

“To lose our membership would be devastating," he wrote. "As such, proactive steps must be taken to rectify our deficiencies.”

There's also a long section called "Lagging metrics cost Nebraska its AAU status" - which explains Nebraska's history in the AAU, what metrics and criteria are usually looked at, and the challenges for (re-)admission.

There's just a lot in this article. Not just about Nebraska's future, but the future of colleges around the country.

Quote:The university faces an estimated $58 million shortfall in 2025 due mostly to inflation and enrollment declines. The enrollment challenge only figures to grow in coming years, as the university and all of higher education faces a looming demographic cliff.

Due to a reduced U.S. birthrate in the wake of the Great Recession of 2007 and 2008, the college-bound population is expected to shrink by roughly 15% by 2029.

Colleges nationally will be competing for a reduced student pool, which is sure to create financial challenges for those that can’t keep up. Nebraska's workforce shortage could exacerbate if its college enrollments lag.

And, based upon what I'm reading, it sounds like schools have been playing games with "ranking lists" (like the NSF) for some time. Including using many campuses in their network, rather than just one campus. That part doesn't sound like it's changing. It's sounding more like that going forward to be the new normal, and apparently one proposal on the table is to have Nebraska do that as well. Even if they were to group NU and UNMC together, that's going to make a change for them.

Quote:Before he left, Carter pushed hard to get the National Science Foundation to agree to allow UNL and UNMC to jointly report their research funding each year. That will allow Nebraska to move up in the NSF’s highly anticipated annual rankings of university research expenditures.

Emails obtained by The World-Herald show Carter had to convince the NSF that UNL and UNMC are truly aligned in terms of leadership.

Carter pointed to an amendment to university bylaws the regents passed last year that clarified the president’s role as the university’s chief executive officer.

The revision was made to facilitate the regents’ decision to give Carter — rather than UNL’s chancellor — direct oversight of UNL athletics. Carter noted that change to the NSF, too.

Carter told NSF officials the bylaw change also conformed with state law, which delineates the university president as the university’s chief executive officer and the campus chancellors as chief administrative officers.

While NSF guidelines say schools should not jointly report figures for flagship and medical campuses that have their own separate leaders, Carter pointed out that two of UNL’s Big Ten peers — Maryland and Rutgers — do just that. He said others use a variety of other administrative structures to enable separate campuses to jointly report.

Carter stated his plan was to report a joint research figure for UNL, UNMC and some research programs administered out of the central office — essentially the NU entities that have a statewide mission. Combined, they would represent the figure for "The University of Nebraska."

The NSF gave the go-ahead. And in February, Gold, as the system provost, reported a joint figure for 2023.

If the same figures had been added together in 2022, Nebraska’s flagship campus would have moved up from 122nd to 64th in federal research rankings — considerably closer to its Big Ten brethren.

"We've gone from outside the stratosphere to inside the ballpark," Kabourek said.

The combined figure also would have vaulted Nebraska above some state universities in the AAU that have medical schools, such as Kansas and Missouri.

Forget Nebraska for a minute or better yet, replace Nebraska with Alabama in that article. If the AAU allows Nebraska to do what it's proposing, it can't or shouldn't say anything if Alabama proposed to do the same with its medical school on UAB's campus.
Now, I don't want either to happen, because it's not fair to UAB nor is it fair to UNMC. The fair way to do both, IMO, is to leave alone UAB & UNMC, and give NU a medical school on its campus and the University of Alabama a medical school on its campus in Tuscaloosa. That would be fair to everyone, IMO.

Very unlikely to happen.

Why would they set up competition to themselves?

UNMC is a world class school/hospital. They're not going to essentially steal grants and staff from one to feed the other.

Such a situation will soon exist in the University System of Georgia where both the UGA Athens campus and Augusta University will both have medical schools.

Plus, can you imagine what controversy would come up if 'Bama tried to do what Nebraska is looking at??

Nobody would care, Alabama is a long way off from sniffing the AAU regardless of medical school affiliation or lack thereof.

(04-09-2024 12:57 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 09:10 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:54 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:50 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 07:55 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  https://omaha.com/news/state-regional/ed...1ccb1.html

"Cutting programs? Merging campuses? Nebraska university leaders ponder bold changes to compete"




There's also a long section called "Lagging metrics cost Nebraska its AAU status" - which explains Nebraska's history in the AAU, what metrics and criteria are usually looked at, and the challenges for (re-)admission.

There's just a lot in this article. Not just about Nebraska's future, but the future of colleges around the country.


And, based upon what I'm reading, it sounds like schools have been playing games with "ranking lists" (like the NSF) for some time. Including using many campuses in their network, rather than just one campus. That part doesn't sound like it's changing. It's sounding more like that going forward to be the new normal, and apparently one proposal on the table is to have Nebraska do that as well. Even if they were to group NU and UNMC together, that's going to make a change for them.

Forget Nebraska for a minute or better yet, replace Nebraska with Alabama in that article. If the AAU allows Nebraska to do what it's proposing, it can't or shouldn't say anything if Alabama proposed to do the same with its medical school on UAB's campus.
Now, I don't want either to happen, because it's not fair to UAB nor is it fair to UNMC. The fair way to do both, IMO, is to leave alone UAB & UNMC, and give NU a medical school on its campus and the University of Alabama a medical school on its campus in Tuscaloosa. That would be fair to everyone, IMO.

Very unlikely to happen.

Why would they set up competition to themselves?

UNMC is a world class school/hospital. They're not going to essentially steal grants and staff from one to feed the other.

Such a situation will soon exist in the University System of Georgia where both the UGA Athens campus and Augusta University will both have medical schools.

Plus, can you imagine what controversy would come up if 'Bama tried to do what Nebraska is looking at??

Nobody would care, Alabama is a long way off from sniffing the AAU regardless of medical school affiliation or lack thereof.

Agree that Alabama is far from seriously being considered for AAU.

Absolutely and firmly disagree that the SEC would consider Nebraska. The Northern most latitude for the SEC would be the Northern Boundary of Virginia to Kentucky to Missouri to Kansas. No school North of that boundary would be considered for membership except maybe Notre Dame.

The Eastern boundary of the Conference is the Atlantic Ocean and the new additions would be obvious in North Carolina and Virginia. The reach on the West would be Kansas and if ESPN really had a bug up their butt perhaps Colorado. Otherwise DFW will be the farthest West we go.

Nebraska is a fine school with solid people. But it is an obvious outlier. Besides the Big 10 is not going to kick them out and they would rather be there. Perhaps there was a time they might have considered the PAC 12 but that's gone, and a time they might have considered returning to the Big 12, but their reasons for considering that have now parted as well. It's Big 10 or nothing for them now.

I like Nebraska and their Corn Cobb Hat wearing fans. But they aren't within the confines the SEC has set for growth.

(04-09-2024 12:52 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:47 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:04 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I think that Nebraska benefited greatly from Texas recruitment, not just athletically but also for their general student body, back in their Big8/12 days. CU already made the decision to rejoin their Big 12 cousins; could Nebraska decide to rejoin their Big8/12 cousins in the SEC? Ironically, such a move could give them such a financial shot in the arm that it would increase their chances of returning to the AAU.

Leaving the Big10 to the Big12 is a "financial shot in the arm"?

I'd like to hear how that is true.

Seriously.

I've started separate brainstorming threads on this concerning Missouri (to the Big12) and Maryland (to the ACC), and the idea was pretty universally panned both times.

I swear it made sense in my mind when I wrote it, but for Nebraska...they'll get the same TV ratings and attendance in either of the P2. Um, I think I was going for attendance increases there, and despite Frank's protestations, I'm confident that Nebraska would pull more Texas students if they were in the SEC than they pull from Illinois right now.

My point about out-of-state students is that Illinois is to out-of-state student recruiting as Texas is to football recruiting. New Jersey (another Big Ten area) is right behind (essentially the out-of-state recruiting equivalent of Florida football recruiting). This is well-known in college enrollment circles. The Chicago and New Jersey suburbs are the two single biggest targets for colleges seeking out-of-state students. The Chicago area is arguably even more of a target because it really does send students throughout the whole country and among a wide swath of public and private schools, whereas New Jersey students are still largely East Coast-focused. The State of Texas obviously has huge numbers of students due to sheer size, but the state also retains a lot higher percentage of its students in-state compared to Illinois and New Jersey. Hence, if the goal is to get exposure to potential out-of-state tuition paying students, the two best markets to get exposure in are Illinois and New Jersey.

Regardless, the Big Ten isn’t kicking Nebraska out and it’s a pure Midwestern school. Basically, the only fit that it doesn’t have with the Big Ten is the lack of AAU status, which the Big Ten itself could have salvaged if Michigan and Wisconsin had voted to retain Nebraska in the group.

(04-09-2024 01:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 12:57 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 09:10 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:54 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:50 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Forget Nebraska for a minute or better yet, replace Nebraska with Alabama in that article. If the AAU allows Nebraska to do what it's proposing, it can't or shouldn't say anything if Alabama proposed to do the same with its medical school on UAB's campus.
Now, I don't want either to happen, because it's not fair to UAB nor is it fair to UNMC. The fair way to do both, IMO, is to leave alone UAB & UNMC, and give NU a medical school on its campus and the University of Alabama a medical school on its campus in Tuscaloosa. That would be fair to everyone, IMO.

Very unlikely to happen.

Why would they set up competition to themselves?

UNMC is a world class school/hospital. They're not going to essentially steal grants and staff from one to feed the other.

Such a situation will soon exist in the University System of Georgia where both the UGA Athens campus and Augusta University will both have medical schools.

Plus, can you imagine what controversy would come up if 'Bama tried to do what Nebraska is looking at??

Nobody would care, Alabama is a long way off from sniffing the AAU regardless of medical school affiliation or lack thereof.

Agree that Alabama is far from seriously being considered for AAU.

Absolutely and firmly disagree that the SEC would consider Nebraska. The Northern most latitude for the SEC would be the Northern Boundary of Virginia to Kentucky to Missouri to Kansas. No school North of that boundary would be considered for membership except maybe Notre Dame.

The Eastern boundary of the Conference is the Atlantic Ocean and the new additions would be obvious in North Carolina and Virginia. The reach on the West would be Kansas and if ESPN really had a bug up their butt perhaps Colorado. Otherwise DFW will be the farthest West we go.

Nebraska is a fine school with solid people. But it is an obvious outlier. Besides the Big 10 is not going to kick them out and they would rather be there. Perhaps there was a time they might have considered the PAC 12 but that's gone, and a time they might have considered returning to the Big 12, but their reasons for considering that have now parted as well. It's Big 10 or nothing for them now.

I like Nebraska and their Corn Cobb Hat wearing fans. But they aren't within the confines the SEC has set for growth.

I believe the SEC would be better for Nebraska football, and I'm sure the SEC doesn't care about that. In the SEC, Nebraska could rekindle their Rivalry Week game vs Oklahoma, plus they would have games in Texas again. Perhaps the Southeastern exposure would even help recruiting.

Nebraska was a national name, even for Millennials. They are now merely Iowa-lite to the average Gen-Z college football fan.

Interesting that the article specifically mentions USF. Suggests to me that Nebraska is serious about a pretty large transformation, probably including UNO, UNL, and UNMC all under one roof.

(04-09-2024 10:07 AM)Eichorst Wrote:  Interesting that the article specifically mentions USF. Suggests to me that Nebraska is serious about a pretty large transformation, probably including UNO, UNL, and UNMC all under one roof.

What about NU-Kearney, or is UNMC @ UNO like I'm thinking it is?

(04-09-2024 08:36 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 12:52 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:47 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:04 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I think that Nebraska benefited greatly from Texas recruitment, not just athletically but also for their general student body, back in their Big8/12 days. CU already made the decision to rejoin their Big 12 cousins; could Nebraska decide to rejoin their Big8/12 cousins in the SEC? Ironically, such a move could give them such a financial shot in the arm that it would increase their chances of returning to the AAU.

Leaving the Big10 to the Big12 is a "financial shot in the arm"?

I'd like to hear how that is true.

Seriously.

I've started separate brainstorming threads on this concerning Missouri (to the Big12) and Maryland (to the ACC), and the idea was pretty universally panned both times.

I swear it made sense in my mind when I wrote it, but for Nebraska...they'll get the same TV ratings and attendance in either of the P2. Um, I think I was going for attendance increases there, and despite Frank's protestations, I'm confident that Nebraska would pull more Texas students if they were in the SEC than they pull from Illinois right now.

My point about out-of-state students is that Illinois is to out-of-state student recruiting as Texas is to football recruiting. New Jersey (another Big Ten area) is right behind (essentially the out-of-state recruiting equivalent of Florida football recruiting). This is well-known in college enrollment circles. The Chicago and New Jersey suburbs are the two single biggest targets for colleges seeking out-of-state students. The Chicago area is arguably even more of a target because it really does send students throughout the whole country and among a wide swath of public and private schools, whereas New Jersey students are still largely East Coast-focused. The State of Texas obviously has huge numbers of students due to sheer size, but the state also retains a lot higher percentage of its students in-state compared to Illinois and New Jersey. Hence, if the goal is to get exposure to potential out-of-state tuition paying students, the two best markets to get exposure in are Illinois and New Jersey.

Regardless, the Big Ten isn’t kicking Nebraska out and it’s a pure Midwestern school. Basically, the only fit that it doesn’t have with the Big Ten is the lack of AAU status, which the Big Ten itself could have salvaged if Michigan and Wisconsin had voted to retain Nebraska in the group.

That's your midwest focus. Texas has nearly 50% more people and a younger population than Illinois and New Jersey combined. Schools throughout the south target Texas students who can't get into Texas or Texas A&M. Georgia, before it got really hard to get into, had a sorority that locals referred to as the Texas sorority. We were eating at a place in Athens and my wife saw a group of obviously sorority girls at another table. She said, "They're really pretty. Must be the Texas sorority."(not that there aren't plenty of pretty Georgia girls). The Georgia president would come to Houston on recruiting visits.

(04-09-2024 11:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 08:36 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 12:52 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:47 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:04 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I think that Nebraska benefited greatly from Texas recruitment, not just athletically but also for their general student body, back in their Big8/12 days. CU already made the decision to rejoin their Big 12 cousins; could Nebraska decide to rejoin their Big8/12 cousins in the SEC? Ironically, such a move could give them such a financial shot in the arm that it would increase their chances of returning to the AAU.

Leaving the Big10 to the Big12 is a "financial shot in the arm"?

I'd like to hear how that is true.

Seriously.

I've started separate brainstorming threads on this concerning Missouri (to the Big12) and Maryland (to the ACC), and the idea was pretty universally panned both times.

I swear it made sense in my mind when I wrote it, but for Nebraska...they'll get the same TV ratings and attendance in either of the P2. Um, I think I was going for attendance increases there, and despite Frank's protestations, I'm confident that Nebraska would pull more Texas students if they were in the SEC than they pull from Illinois right now.

My point about out-of-state students is that Illinois is to out-of-state student recruiting as Texas is to football recruiting. New Jersey (another Big Ten area) is right behind (essentially the out-of-state recruiting equivalent of Florida football recruiting). This is well-known in college enrollment circles. The Chicago and New Jersey suburbs are the two single biggest targets for colleges seeking out-of-state students. The Chicago area is arguably even more of a target because it really does send students throughout the whole country and among a wide swath of public and private schools, whereas New Jersey students are still largely East Coast-focused. The State of Texas obviously has huge numbers of students due to sheer size, but the state also retains a lot higher percentage of its students in-state compared to Illinois and New Jersey. Hence, if the goal is to get exposure to potential out-of-state tuition paying students, the two best markets to get exposure in are Illinois and New Jersey.

Regardless, the Big Ten isn’t kicking Nebraska out and it’s a pure Midwestern school. Basically, the only fit that it doesn’t have with the Big Ten is the lack of AAU status, which the Big Ten itself could have salvaged if Michigan and Wisconsin had voted to retain Nebraska in the group.

That's your midwest focus. Texas has nearly 50% more people and a younger population than Illinois and New Jersey combined. Schools throughout the south target Texas students who can't get into Texas or Texas A&M. Georgia, before it got really hard to get into, had a sorority that locals referred to as the Texas sorority. We were eating at a place in Athens and my wife saw a group of obviously sorority girls at another table. She said, "They're really pretty. Must be the Texas sorority."(not that there aren't plenty of pretty Georgia girls). The Georgia president would come to Houston on recruiting visits.

It’s not my Midwest focus - I sure as heck don’t want to see more of a brain drain from Illinois than what’s already happening. This is bad!

Even with the much larger population size of Texas, the states of New Jersey and Illinois both each straight up send more students out-of-state than Texas:

http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/ind...ata&state=

Once again, this isn’t even on a percentage basis (which would be even worse for IL and NJ). This is sheer gross number of exported students even with each state having a fraction of the population of Texas. It’s honestly pretty astounding.

(04-09-2024 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 11:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 08:36 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 12:52 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:47 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  Leaving the Big10 to the Big12 is a "financial shot in the arm"?

I'd like to hear how that is true.

Seriously.

I've started separate brainstorming threads on this concerning Missouri (to the Big12) and Maryland (to the ACC), and the idea was pretty universally panned both times.

I swear it made sense in my mind when I wrote it, but for Nebraska...they'll get the same TV ratings and attendance in either of the P2. Um, I think I was going for attendance increases there, and despite Frank's protestations, I'm confident that Nebraska would pull more Texas students if they were in the SEC than they pull from Illinois right now.

My point about out-of-state students is that Illinois is to out-of-state student recruiting as Texas is to football recruiting. New Jersey (another Big Ten area) is right behind (essentially the out-of-state recruiting equivalent of Florida football recruiting). This is well-known in college enrollment circles. The Chicago and New Jersey suburbs are the two single biggest targets for colleges seeking out-of-state students. The Chicago area is arguably even more of a target because it really does send students throughout the whole country and among a wide swath of public and private schools, whereas New Jersey students are still largely East Coast-focused. The State of Texas obviously has huge numbers of students due to sheer size, but the state also retains a lot higher percentage of its students in-state compared to Illinois and New Jersey. Hence, if the goal is to get exposure to potential out-of-state tuition paying students, the two best markets to get exposure in are Illinois and New Jersey.

Regardless, the Big Ten isn’t kicking Nebraska out and it’s a pure Midwestern school. Basically, the only fit that it doesn’t have with the Big Ten is the lack of AAU status, which the Big Ten itself could have salvaged if Michigan and Wisconsin had voted to retain Nebraska in the group.

That's your midwest focus. Texas has nearly 50% more people and a younger population than Illinois and New Jersey combined. Schools throughout the south target Texas students who can't get into Texas or Texas A&M. Georgia, before it got really hard to get into, had a sorority that locals referred to as the Texas sorority. We were eating at a place in Athens and my wife saw a group of obviously sorority girls at another table. She said, "They're really pretty. Must be the Texas sorority."(not that there aren't plenty of pretty Georgia girls). The Georgia president would come to Houston on recruiting visits.

It’s not my Midwest focus - I sure as heck don’t want to see more of a brain drain from Illinois than what’s already happening. This is bad!

Even with the much larger population size of Texas, the states of New Jersey and Illinois both each straight up send more students out-of-state than Texas:

http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/ind...ata&state=

Once again, this isn’t even on a percentage basis (which would be even worse for IL and NJ). This is sheer gross number of exported students even with each state having a fraction of the population of Texas. It’s honestly pretty astounding.

Interesting that almost as many out-of-state students come to Illinois vs out-of-state coming to Texas

(04-09-2024 11:11 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 10:07 AM)Eichorst Wrote:  Interesting that the article specifically mentions USF. Suggests to me that Nebraska is serious about a pretty large transformation, probably including UNO, UNL, and UNMC all under one roof.

What about NU-Kearney, or is UNMC @ UNO like I'm thinking it is?

I think Kearney has a better chance of maintaining its autonomy here because politically I don't think it makes sense to combine them. Western Nebraska would lose its mind if UNK were just a satellite, and Kearney isn't even very far west as it is, so people out west would really feel alienated by this. There's not a ton of people in Western and Central Nebraska, but enough to cause issues for incumbents, who might be primary'able.

If AAU status is desired by UNL, then a merger between UNMC and UNL absolutely must be on the table. But UNO + UNMC have already been run by the same Chancellor, Jeffrey Gold, so that makes me think that if UNMC + UNL are going to merge, they'd just fold UNO in at the same time. And if the AAU's concerns were about campus + med school proximity, folding UNO into the combined structure probably makes the numbers look better overall.

As far as whether or not any of this is necessary, Nebraska's in a weird position with a high tax burden, slow growth, and really there's no need for such an organizationally complex structure in an era of remote learning and when the two schools are not far apart anyway. And it's really silly for the state to have 3 Div 1 programs. It's just not large enough for that.

(04-09-2024 01:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 12:57 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 09:10 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:54 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:50 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Forget Nebraska for a minute or better yet, replace Nebraska with Alabama in that article. If the AAU allows Nebraska to do what it's proposing, it can't or shouldn't say anything if Alabama proposed to do the same with its medical school on UAB's campus.
Now, I don't want either to happen, because it's not fair to UAB nor is it fair to UNMC. The fair way to do both, IMO, is to leave alone UAB & UNMC, and give NU a medical school on its campus and the University of Alabama a medical school on its campus in Tuscaloosa. That would be fair to everyone, IMO.

Very unlikely to happen.

Why would they set up competition to themselves?

UNMC is a world class school/hospital. They're not going to essentially steal grants and staff from one to feed the other.

Such a situation will soon exist in the University System of Georgia where both the UGA Athens campus and Augusta University will both have medical schools.

Plus, can you imagine what controversy would come up if 'Bama tried to do what Nebraska is looking at??

Nobody would care, Alabama is a long way off from sniffing the AAU regardless of medical school affiliation or lack thereof.

Agree that Alabama is far from seriously being considered for AAU.

Absolutely and firmly disagree that the SEC would consider Nebraska. The Northern most latitude for the SEC would be the Northern Boundary of Virginia to Kentucky to Missouri to Kansas. No school North of that boundary would be considered for membership except maybe Notre Dame.

The Eastern boundary of the Conference is the Atlantic Ocean and the new additions would be obvious in North Carolina and Virginia. The reach on the West would be Kansas and if ESPN really had a bug up their butt perhaps Colorado. Otherwise DFW will be the farthest West we go.

Nebraska is a fine school with solid people. But it is an obvious outlier. Besides the Big 10 is not going to kick them out and they would rather be there. Perhaps there was a time they might have considered the PAC 12 but that's gone, and a time they might have considered returning to the Big 12, but their reasons for considering that have now parted as well. It's Big 10 or nothing for them now.

I like Nebraska and their Corn Cobb Hat wearing fans. But they aren't within the confines the SEC has set for growth.

You have convinced me that Kansas is a viable SEC candidate. Believe me when I say that Nebraska would be even better for us. And an added bonus is that they’re adjacent to the current SEC footprint, keeping our regionalism intact.

I do agree that the point is moot bc they’re not leaving the B1G.

(04-09-2024 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 11:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 08:36 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 12:52 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:47 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  Leaving the Big10 to the Big12 is a "financial shot in the arm"?

I'd like to hear how that is true.

Seriously.

I've started separate brainstorming threads on this concerning Missouri (to the Big12) and Maryland (to the ACC), and the idea was pretty universally panned both times.

I swear it made sense in my mind when I wrote it, but for Nebraska...they'll get the same TV ratings and attendance in either of the P2. Um, I think I was going for attendance increases there, and despite Frank's protestations, I'm confident that Nebraska would pull more Texas students if they were in the SEC than they pull from Illinois right now.

My point about out-of-state students is that Illinois is to out-of-state student recruiting as Texas is to football recruiting. New Jersey (another Big Ten area) is right behind (essentially the out-of-state recruiting equivalent of Florida football recruiting). This is well-known in college enrollment circles. The Chicago and New Jersey suburbs are the two single biggest targets for colleges seeking out-of-state students. The Chicago area is arguably even more of a target because it really does send students throughout the whole country and among a wide swath of public and private schools, whereas New Jersey students are still largely East Coast-focused. The State of Texas obviously has huge numbers of students due to sheer size, but the state also retains a lot higher percentage of its students in-state compared to Illinois and New Jersey. Hence, if the goal is to get exposure to potential out-of-state tuition paying students, the two best markets to get exposure in are Illinois and New Jersey.

Regardless, the Big Ten isn’t kicking Nebraska out and it’s a pure Midwestern school. Basically, the only fit that it doesn’t have with the Big Ten is the lack of AAU status, which the Big Ten itself could have salvaged if Michigan and Wisconsin had voted to retain Nebraska in the group.

That's your midwest focus. Texas has nearly 50% more people and a younger population than Illinois and New Jersey combined. Schools throughout the south target Texas students who can't get into Texas or Texas A&M. Georgia, before it got really hard to get into, had a sorority that locals referred to as the Texas sorority. We were eating at a place in Athens and my wife saw a group of obviously sorority girls at another table. She said, "They're really pretty. Must be the Texas sorority."(not that there aren't plenty of pretty Georgia girls). The Georgia president would come to Houston on recruiting visits.

It’s not my Midwest focus - I sure as heck don’t want to see more of a brain drain from Illinois than what’s already happening. This is bad!

Even with the much larger population size of Texas, the states of New Jersey and Illinois both each straight up send more students out-of-state than Texas:

http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/ind...ata&state=

Once again, this isn’t even on a percentage basis (which would be even worse for IL and NJ). This is sheer gross number of exported students even with each state having a fraction of the population of Texas. It’s honestly pretty astounding.

Interesting data, although Texas was close behind Illinois and New Jersey and probably has passed them now. That was 2018. California probably is still first. Surprisingly, Massachusetts has one, if not the worst, % of students staying in state, although they are a net importer. Only 11 of the lower 48 states (CA, IL, NJ, TX, CT, GA, MD, MN, NV, NM, WA) are net exporters of students.

UNL can combine all the small schools it wants, but the state of Nebraska has a population problem and a demographics problem. It's a small population state and it's not a high growth state. Border states like Iowa and Kansas have similar issues. UNL, Iowa St, Iowa, Mizzou, Kansas, Kan St have all been sliding down the US News rankings the last 20 years. Meanwhile schools like USF and UCF keep growing in a state that keeps growing.

I hate to say it, but I think UNL is doomed.

(04-08-2024 08:37 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:25 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 08:04 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I think that Nebraska benefited greatly from Texas recruitment, not just athletically but also for their general student body, back in their Big8/12 days. CU already made the decision to rejoin their Big 12 cousins; could Nebraska decide to rejoin their Big8/12 cousins in the SEC? Ironically, such a move could give them such a financial shot in the arm that it would increase their chances of returning to the AAU.

1. Would the SEC ever entertain adding someone like Nebraska when they have their sights set on adding Clemson and Florida State?

2. If Nebraska was to leave the BIG, who would the BIG add as their replacement?

1. I brought this up before; bring in NU and KU. Great synergy there with OU and MU.

Kansas and Missouri want nothing to do with each other.

Is this true or just opinion?
Nebraska belongs with its old Big 8 goes - Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri. So SEC has 2 of them now. Plus they should play Colorado every year regardless.

(04-09-2024 02:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 11:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 08:36 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 12:52 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I swear it made sense in my mind when I wrote it, but for Nebraska...they'll get the same TV ratings and attendance in either of the P2. Um, I think I was going for attendance increases there, and despite Frank's protestations, I'm confident that Nebraska would pull more Texas students if they were in the SEC than they pull from Illinois right now.

My point about out-of-state students is that Illinois is to out-of-state student recruiting as Texas is to football recruiting. New Jersey (another Big Ten area) is right behind (essentially the out-of-state recruiting equivalent of Florida football recruiting). This is well-known in college enrollment circles. The Chicago and New Jersey suburbs are the two single biggest targets for colleges seeking out-of-state students. The Chicago area is arguably even more of a target because it really does send students throughout the whole country and among a wide swath of public and private schools, whereas New Jersey students are still largely East Coast-focused. The State of Texas obviously has huge numbers of students due to sheer size, but the state also retains a lot higher percentage of its students in-state compared to Illinois and New Jersey. Hence, if the goal is to get exposure to potential out-of-state tuition paying students, the two best markets to get exposure in are Illinois and New Jersey.

Regardless, the Big Ten isn’t kicking Nebraska out and it’s a pure Midwestern school. Basically, the only fit that it doesn’t have with the Big Ten is the lack of AAU status, which the Big Ten itself could have salvaged if Michigan and Wisconsin had voted to retain Nebraska in the group.

That's your midwest focus. Texas has nearly 50% more people and a younger population than Illinois and New Jersey combined. Schools throughout the south target Texas students who can't get into Texas or Texas A&M. Georgia, before it got really hard to get into, had a sorority that locals referred to as the Texas sorority. We were eating at a place in Athens and my wife saw a group of obviously sorority girls at another table. She said, "They're really pretty. Must be the Texas sorority."(not that there aren't plenty of pretty Georgia girls). The Georgia president would come to Houston on recruiting visits.

It’s not my Midwest focus - I sure as heck don’t want to see more of a brain drain from Illinois than what’s already happening. This is bad!

Even with the much larger population size of Texas, the states of New Jersey and Illinois both each straight up send more students out-of-state than Texas:

http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/ind...ata&state=

Once again, this isn’t even on a percentage basis (which would be even worse for IL and NJ). This is sheer gross number of exported students even with each state having a fraction of the population of Texas. It’s honestly pretty astounding.

Interesting data, although Texas was close behind Illinois and New Jersey and probably has passed them now. That was 2018. California probably is still first. Surprisingly, Massachusetts has one, if not the worst, % of students staying in state, although they are a net importer. Only 11 of the lower 48 states (CA, IL, NJ, TX, CT, GA, MD, MN, NV, NM, WA) are net exporters of students.

It bugs me on one hand to see so many Texas kids go out of State. I’m sure that parents in Illinois, NJ, CA, etc would likewise prefer to keep their babies nearby. 2 of my daughter’s closest friends are going to Alabama in the fall. And yet, going someplace else for school is a great opportunity for kids to see more of the country, and we’re probably all better for it.

Still, I’d rather see UH, Tech, UTSA, Tx St,etc etc etc get more of our kids to remain in State.

(04-08-2024 08:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  Back in the day, it seemed NU recruited linemen locally and athletes nationally, including the JuCo ranks.

And steroids underground.