RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
Perhaps even more valuable the $65 million coming to WSU/OSU is that none of the departing members may vote to dissolve or vote on any matters related to the conference. The PAC-2 can now do what they please with the league moving forward.
Just like with UConn, Cincinnati and USF, the exit fees war chest will provide a temporary safety net to help with spending and ultimate decrease in revenues for the next few years. What they choose to do with that will be pivotal. Unfortunately, it did nothing for either department to keep a successful coach (Jonathan Smith, Kyle Smith).
RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
Given this settlement, the new playoff money and the reduced initial shares, has anyone put pen to paper on how Cal and Stanford stand to make out by switching conferences over the next few years?
They received $37.1M per the Pac 12 2022 Form 990.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2024 01:14 PM by CougarRed.)
RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
So with that plus the NCAA credits they'll have access to over the next couple of years, how much money does that give them to help cover some MWC expenses for any school that leaves that conference for the PAC?
RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
$65M is certainly not chump change, but this basically just rebuilds the reserve fund after it was wiped out to pay Comcast. That's a very reasonable holdback imho.
PAC finances are still a disaster. CFP money is going straight to the MWC and NCAAT credits won't even fund conference operations. This $65M is desperately needed but only covers 1 year's expenses.
RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
(03-25-2024 06:14 PM)clunk Wrote: $65M is certainly not chump change, but this basically just rebuilds the reserve fund after it was wiped out to pay Comcast. That's a very reasonable holdback imho.
PAC finances are still a disaster. CFP money is going straight to the MWC and NCAAT credits won't even fund conference operations. This $65M is desperately needed but only covers 1 year's expenses.
And I would assume any units Oregon St and Washington St earn in 25 and 26 would go to the WCC and not themselves.
RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
(03-25-2024 01:14 PM)CougarRed Wrote: Given this settlement, the new playoff money and the reduced initial shares, has anyone put pen to paper on how Cal and Stanford stand to make out by switching conferences over the next few years?
They received $37.1M per the Pac 12 2022 Form 990.
I don't see how Cal can afford being in the ACC. Stanford has the cash but I do think the travel will be hard on both schools. Plus, you never want to be a member of a conference where you make much less than the rest of the conference. I see Washington in that boat as well. UCLA could be that too, depending on how much Calimony they pay.
RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
(03-25-2024 06:14 PM)clunk Wrote: $65M is certainly not chump change, but this basically just rebuilds the reserve fund after it was wiped out to pay Comcast. That's a very reasonable holdback imho.
PAC finances are still a disaster. CFP money is going straight to the MWC and NCAAT credits won't even fund conference operations. This $65M is desperately needed but only covers 1 year's expenses.
And the Pac is party to a lawsuit on player compensation.
That's $200M of incoming revenue over the course of the next 2-5 years. I don't see how they get to $250M but let's just agree to that number.
If they were to add 6 MW members, the PAC would need to pay $67.5M to the MW and those MW Schools would have to pay $105M ($17.5M x 6). The MW would likely settle for less but you're starting at $173.5M to rebuild with 6 MW schools. Let's say for argument's sake that the MW and PAC split the MW exit Fee, is the PAC going to spend $85M of their $250M nut for 6 MW schools?
I don't think they will. I think they will go as Independents until they have exhausted the $250M.
RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
(03-25-2024 06:19 PM)stever20 Wrote:
(03-25-2024 06:14 PM)clunk Wrote: $65M is certainly not chump change, but this basically just rebuilds the reserve fund after it was wiped out to pay Comcast. That's a very reasonable holdback imho.
PAC finances are still a disaster. CFP money is going straight to the MWC and NCAAT credits won't even fund conference operations. This $65M is desperately needed but only covers 1 year's expenses.
And I would assume any units Oregon St and Washington St earn in 25 and 26 would go to the WCC and not themselves.
Yes. Any *WCC* credits go to the WCC, even if earned by WSU/OSU.
They’ll get to milk Pac-12 credits for the next 2 years, but not after that if they don’t rebuild the conference.
That's $200M of incoming revenue over the course of the next 2-5 years. I don't see how they get to $250M but let's just agree to that number.
If they were to add 6 MW members, the PAC would need to pay $67.5M to the MW and those MW Schools would have to pay $105M ($17.5M x 6). The MW would likely settle for less but you're starting at $173.5M to rebuild with 6 MW schools. Let's say for argument's sake that the MW and PAC split the MW exit Fee, is the PAC going to spend $85M of their $250M nut for 6 MW schools?
I don't think they will. I think they will go as Independents until they have exhausted the $250M.
If they after 2 years can't rebuild the conference, all the NCAA units would revert to the earning schools- as the Pac 12 would cease to be a conference in the NCAA eyes.
That's $200M of incoming revenue over the course of the next 2-5 years. I don't see how they get to $250M but let's just agree to that number.
If they were to add 6 MW members, the PAC would need to pay $67.5M to the MW and those MW Schools would have to pay $105M ($17.5M x 6). The MW would likely settle for less but you're starting at $173.5M to rebuild with 6 MW schools. Let's say for argument's sake that the MW and PAC split the MW exit Fee, is the PAC going to spend $85M of their $250M nut for 6 MW schools?
I don't think they will. I think they will go as Independents until they have exhausted the $250M.
This is late March 2024. How can people still be this wrong on the PAC's finances?
$65M holdback is nice, but just backfills past expenses and at best funds 1 year.
NCAAT credits go to the conference, not the teams. They are entirely eaten up by conference expenses. $0 distribution to WOSU. After 2 years the PAC ceases to be an NCAA conference so there's only ~$14M, not $80M. Plus, again, not one penny goes to the teams.
CFP is $6M per school, which directly goes to the MWC. Rose Bowl is a CFP game and DOES NOT FUND the PAC. Not $0, but negative dollars because the MWC deal costs more than CFP earnings.
PAC's finances are a disaster.
That's $200M of incoming revenue over the course of the next 2-5 years. I don't see how they get to $250M but let's just agree to that number.
If they were to add 6 MW members, the PAC would need to pay $67.5M to the MW and those MW Schools would have to pay $105M ($17.5M x 6). The MW would likely settle for less but you're starting at $173.5M to rebuild with 6 MW schools. Let's say for argument's sake that the MW and PAC split the MW exit Fee, is the PAC going to spend $85M of their $250M nut for 6 MW schools?
I don't think they will. I think they will go as Independents until they have exhausted the $250M.
This is late March 2024. How can people still be this wrong on the PAC's finances?
Because there's a lot of obscurity, and contradictory information floating around.
Quote:$65M holdback is nice, but just backfills past expenses and at best funds 1 year. NCAAT credits go to the conference, not the teams. They are entirely eaten up by conference expenses.
The new management has the authority to drastically reduce conference expenses.
Quote:$0 distribution to WOSU. After 2 years the PAC ceases to be an NCAA conference so there's only ~$14M, not $80M. Plus, again, not one penny goes to the teams.
CFP is $6M per school, which directly goes to the MWC. Rose Bowl is a CFP game and DOES NOT FUND the PAC.
What you're saying does not fit with the PAC-10 statements that WSU and OSU are getting "hundreds of millions." If you can figure out how that happens without Rose Bowl money (or CFP money in lieu of Rose Bowl) I'm interested to hear it.
Quote:Not $0, but negative dollars because the MWC deal costs more than CFP earnings.
PAC's finances are a disaster.
They are, but you're shuffling expenses and revenues in ways that aren't how it is. Try listing revenues and expenses separately.
That's $200M of incoming revenue over the course of the next 2-5 years. I don't see how they get to $250M but let's just agree to that number.
If they were to add 6 MW members, the PAC would need to pay $67.5M to the MW and those MW Schools would have to pay $105M ($17.5M x 6). The MW would likely settle for less but you're starting at $173.5M to rebuild with 6 MW schools. Let's say for argument's sake that the MW and PAC split the MW exit Fee, is the PAC going to spend $85M of their $250M nut for 6 MW schools?
I don't think they will. I think they will go as Independents until they have exhausted the $250M.
This is late March 2024. How can people still be this wrong on the PAC's finances?
Because there's a lot of obscurity, and contradictory information floating around.
Quote:$65M holdback is nice, but just backfills past expenses and at best funds 1 year. NCAAT credits go to the conference, not the teams. They are entirely eaten up by conference expenses.
The new management has the authority to drastically reduce conference expenses.
Quote:$0 distribution to WOSU. After 2 years the PAC ceases to be an NCAA conference so there's only ~$14M, not $80M. Plus, again, not one penny goes to the teams.
CFP is $6M per school, which directly goes to the MWC. Rose Bowl is a CFP game and DOES NOT FUND the PAC.
What you're saying does not fit with the PAC-10 statements that WSU and OSU are getting "hundreds of millions." If you can figure out how that happens without Rose Bowl money (or CFP money in lieu of Rose Bowl) I'm interested to hear it.
Quote:Not $0, but negative dollars because the MWC deal costs more than CFP earnings.
PAC's finances are a disaster.
They are, but you're shuffling expenses and revenues in ways that aren't how it is. Try listing revenues and expenses separately.
$2 per year for a million years is millions of dollars. You tell me where that money comes from. Without question it is not NCAAT, CFP, or Rose Bowl.
Seriously, the Rose Bowl as a CFP game was announced a long time ago. How does anybody still think that's a PAC bowl tie in?
RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
(03-25-2024 06:42 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:
(03-25-2024 01:14 PM)CougarRed Wrote: Given this settlement, the new playoff money and the reduced initial shares, has anyone put pen to paper on how Cal and Stanford stand to make out by switching conferences over the next few years?
They received $37.1M per the Pac 12 2022 Form 990.
I don't see how Cal can afford being in the ACC. Stanford has the cash but I do think the travel will be hard on both schools. Plus, you never want to be a member of a conference where you make much less than the rest of the conference. I see Washington in that boat as well. UCLA could be that too, depending on how much Calimony they pay.
Don't get me wrong... money wise it makes perfect sense for the schools who went to the Big 10. Jusry is still out on the ones that went to the ACC. I could see that potentially backfiring big time in terms of competitiveness. The travel alone is going to be really difficult as the season wears on.
That's $200M of incoming revenue over the course of the next 2-5 years. I don't see how they get to $250M but let's just agree to that number.
If they were to add 6 MW members, the PAC would need to pay $67.5M to the MW and those MW Schools would have to pay $105M ($17.5M x 6). The MW would likely settle for less but you're starting at $173.5M to rebuild with 6 MW schools. Let's say for argument's sake that the MW and PAC split the MW exit Fee, is the PAC going to spend $85M of their $250M nut for 6 MW schools?
I don't think they will. I think they will go as Independents until they have exhausted the $250M.
#1 They don't get any Rose Bowl money.
#2 tourney credits sound a little high
#3 they need the money for themselves. They aren't giving it away to others.
RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
(03-25-2024 01:13 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: Perhaps even more valuable the $65 million coming to WSU/OSU is that none of the departing members may vote to dissolve or vote on any matters related to the conference. The PAC-2 can now do what they please with the league moving forward.
Just like with UConn, Cincinnati and USF, the exit fees war chest will provide a temporary safety net to help with spending and ultimate decrease in revenues for the next few years. What they choose to do with that will be pivotal. Unfortunately, it did nothing for either department to keep a successful coach (Jonathan Smith, Kyle Smith).
In light of their troubles with the Smiths, WOSU have to be wondering how soon is now.
That's $200M of incoming revenue over the course of the next 2-5 years. I don't see how they get to $250M but let's just agree to that number.
If they were to add 6 MW members, the PAC would need to pay $67.5M to the MW and those MW Schools would have to pay $105M ($17.5M x 6). The MW would likely settle for less but you're starting at $173.5M to rebuild with 6 MW schools. Let's say for argument's sake that the MW and PAC split the MW exit Fee, is the PAC going to spend $85M of their $250M nut for 6 MW schools?
I don't think they will. I think they will go as Independents until they have exhausted the $250M.
This is late March 2024. How can people still be this wrong on the PAC's finances?
Because there's a lot of obscurity, and contradictory information floating around.
Quote:$65M holdback is nice, but just backfills past expenses and at best funds 1 year. NCAAT credits go to the conference, not the teams. They are entirely eaten up by conference expenses.
The new management has the authority to drastically reduce conference expenses.
Quote:$0 distribution to WOSU. After 2 years the PAC ceases to be an NCAA conference so there's only ~$14M, not $80M. Plus, again, not one penny goes to the teams.
CFP is $6M per school, which directly goes to the MWC. Rose Bowl is a CFP game and DOES NOT FUND the PAC.
What you're saying does not fit with the PAC-10 statements that WSU and OSU are getting "hundreds of millions." If you can figure out how that happens without Rose Bowl money (or CFP money in lieu of Rose Bowl) I'm interested to hear it.
Quote:Not $0, but negative dollars because the MWC deal costs more than CFP earnings.
PAC's finances are a disaster.
They are, but you're shuffling expenses and revenues in ways that aren't how it is. Try listing revenues and expenses separately.
The poster you're responding to REALLY doesn't like the Pac. Check his posting history, it really stands out. I mean, I don't like a lot of things, but I'm consistently in favor of A&M and the SEC. He's against the 2Pac and, well, it's hard to see what he's actually in favor of since I don't recall ever seeing him post something nice about anybody or anything.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2024 08:48 PM by bryanw1995.)
RE: Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
(03-25-2024 06:14 PM)clunk Wrote: $65M is certainly not chump change, but this basically just rebuilds the reserve fund after it was wiped out to pay Comcast. That's a very reasonable holdback imho.
PAC finances are still a disaster. CFP money is going straight to the MWC and NCAAT credits won't even fund conference operations. This $65M is desperately needed but only covers 1 year's expenses.
$50 million of that $65bmillion settlement is tagged to pay for pending lawsuits and claims against the PAC 12. They can't just go spend it.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2024 09:05 PM by billings.)
That's $200M of incoming revenue over the course of the next 2-5 years. I don't see how they get to $250M but let's just agree to that number.
If they were to add 6 MW members, the PAC would need to pay $67.5M to the MW and those MW Schools would have to pay $105M ($17.5M x 6). The MW would likely settle for less but you're starting at $173.5M to rebuild with 6 MW schools. Let's say for argument's sake that the MW and PAC split the MW exit Fee, is the PAC going to spend $85M of their $250M nut for 6 MW schools?
I don't think they will. I think they will go as Independents until they have exhausted the $250M.
This is late March 2024. How can people still be this wrong on the PAC's finances?
Because there's a lot of obscurity, and contradictory information floating around.
Quote:$65M holdback is nice, but just backfills past expenses and at best funds 1 year. NCAAT credits go to the conference, not the teams. They are entirely eaten up by conference expenses.
The new management has the authority to drastically reduce conference expenses.
Quote:$0 distribution to WOSU. After 2 years the PAC ceases to be an NCAA conference so there's only ~$14M, not $80M. Plus, again, not one penny goes to the teams.
CFP is $6M per school, which directly goes to the MWC. Rose Bowl is a CFP game and DOES NOT FUND the PAC.
What you're saying does not fit with the PAC-10 statements that WSU and OSU are getting "hundreds of millions." If you can figure out how that happens without Rose Bowl money (or CFP money in lieu of Rose Bowl) I'm interested to hear it.
Quote:Not $0, but negative dollars because the MWC deal costs more than CFP earnings.
PAC's finances are a disaster.
They are, but you're shuffling expenses and revenues in ways that aren't how it is. Try listing revenues and expenses separately.
The poster you're responding to REALLY doesn't like the Pac. Check his posting history, it really stands out. I mean, I don't like a lot of things, but I'm consistently in favor of A&M and the SEC. He's against the 2Pac and, well, it's hard to see what he's actually in favor of since I don't recall ever seeing him post something nice about anybody or anything.
It's not that I'm against the PAC. In fact, I have no skin in the game either way. I'm simply a realist that recognizes the PAC is a zombie with no hope. Can anybody dispute my numbers on the PAC's finances?
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Wilner: PAC-2 vs Departing 10 settlement is out.
