(03-26-2024 11:33 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:27 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:10 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:01 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 07:27 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  Troy was an old 1-AA powerhouse foe. Coastal won the College World Series in baseball.

You're moving the target. That's like saying "yeah, but they have cool uniforms." The original (kinda stupid) argument was about calling up too many FCS football programs. Which is a thing the SB has also done.

Which I'm not sure is very relevant anyway.


The first post in this chain is trolly and ignorant and didn't deserve response to begin with. But once we went down that road, it's fair to point out that the 'belt was once just as bad or worse on the actual field and in respect to prospects for improvement and in calling up new FBS teams (if you think those things are somehow the end of the world, which I don't).

I think there's something to be said for the timing of it. Big difference between adding App, Coastal, JMU, and GS vs scraping the bottom of the barrel for SHSU and KSU. JSU and Delaware certainly deserve the add though.

SHSU had literally won the most recent football title when we added them. I got no excuse for KSU, but are we also going through the whole list of SB call-ups?

Took a while for USA to contribute. FXU never did much in the 'belt, did they? Georgia State had no history to speak of.

Weren't those all SB "call ups?"

That's fair. I was only thinking of the call ups that happened after we had joined. My point about SHSU was that despite their success they never grew a fanbase, or improved their facilities to a respectable level. You can't tell me they look like other FBS schools in that regard. As opposed to JSU for instance.

I really don’t understand your prerogative around the SBC’s addition of Coastal Carolina. You continue to throw their name in with App State and James Madison’s as if they even remotely compare as callups candidates. Yes the SBC had some “sure-thing additions” during their 20 year run as the callup league. Mountaineers and Dukes qualify (and the Eagles probably do too) when looking at your “three Fs”.

To say CCU is in that category is disingenuous, discrediting of the SBC leaderships’ decision making to this point or just straight up revisionist history. The Sun Belt has thrived on finding diamonds in the rough. Using hindsight we can say that the Chants WERE a home run addition. But did anything really scream home run when they were added in 2015, with a budget comparable to SHSU’s (and lower than Kennesaw’s) now, a 9000 seat football stadium and little history of FCS success, pre-CWS? Like, at least SHSU won something before getting an invite.

Maybe Sam or KSU will reach Coastal’s level of success in D1A football maybe they flop who the hell knows. But it’s not like the Sun Belt has just been adding the most FBS-worthy programs for the past 20 years. They’ve banked on potential and it’s payed off because they added smart. To say there’s a big difference between adding CCU and SHSU or KSU is just a severe case of short term memory.

What’s so different about them as candidates? A beach?

(03-26-2024 10:04 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:01 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 07:27 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 06:48 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 06:46 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  The quality of the FCS callups are completely different. SBC has teams with 14 1-aa National Titles, Cusa only has 2.

CCU and troy state which has zero have transisitoned better than GaSo or ULM which do have championships.

Troy was an old 1-AA powerhouse foe. Coastal won the College World Series in baseball.

You're moving the target. That's like saying "yeah, but they have cool uniforms." The original (kinda stupid) argument was about calling up too many FCS football programs. Which is a thing the SB has also done.

Which I'm not sure is very relevant anyway.


The first post in this chain is trolly and ignorant and didn't deserve response to begin with. But once we went down that road, it's fair to point out that the 'belt was once just as bad or worse on the actual field and in respect to prospects for improvement and in calling up new FBS teams (if you think those things are somehow the end of the world, which I don't).

Is this relevant?

https://masseyratings.com/cf/fbs/ratings?c=1

SBC
MWC
AAC
CUSA
MAC

Unironically, no. It isn’t.

(03-26-2024 12:37 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 11:33 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:27 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:10 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:01 AM)inutech Wrote:  You're moving the target. That's like saying "yeah, but they have cool uniforms." The original (kinda stupid) argument was about calling up too many FCS football programs. Which is a thing the SB has also done.

Which I'm not sure is very relevant anyway.


The first post in this chain is trolly and ignorant and didn't deserve response to begin with. But once we went down that road, it's fair to point out that the 'belt was once just as bad or worse on the actual field and in respect to prospects for improvement and in calling up new FBS teams (if you think those things are somehow the end of the world, which I don't).

I think there's something to be said for the timing of it. Big difference between adding App, Coastal, JMU, and GS vs scraping the bottom of the barrel for SHSU and KSU. JSU and Delaware certainly deserve the add though.

SHSU had literally won the most recent football title when we added them. I got no excuse for KSU, but are we also going through the whole list of SB call-ups?

Took a while for USA to contribute. FXU never did much in the 'belt, did they? Georgia State had no history to speak of.

Weren't those all SB "call ups?"

That's fair. I was only thinking of the call ups that happened after we had joined. My point about SHSU was that despite their success they never grew a fanbase, or improved their facilities to a respectable level. You can't tell me they look like other FBS schools in that regard. As opposed to JSU for instance.

I really don’t understand your prerogative around the SBC’s addition of Coastal Carolina. You continue to throw their name in with App State and James Madison’s as if they even remotely compare as callups candidates. Yes the SBC had some “sure-thing additions” during their 20 year run as the callup league. Mountaineers and Dukes qualify (and the Eagles probably do too) when looking at your “three Fs”.

To say CCU is in that category is disingenuous, discrediting of the SBC leaderships’ decision making to this point or just straight up revisionist history. The Sun Belt has thrived on finding diamonds in the rough. Using hindsight we can say that the Chants WERE a home run addition. But did anything really scream home run when they were added in 2015, with a budget comparable to SHSU’s (and lower than Kennesaw’s) now, a 9000 seat football stadium and little history of FCS success, pre-CWS? Like, at least SHSU won something before getting an invite.

Maybe Sam or KSU will reach Coastal’s level of success in D1A football maybe they flop who the hell knows. But it’s not like the Sun Belt has just been adding the most FBS-worthy programs for the past 20 years. They’ve banked on potential and it’s payed off because they added smart. To say there’s a big difference between adding CCU and SHSU or KSU is just a severe case of short term memory.

What’s so different about them as candidates? A beach?

As mentioned before, they have won the College World Series.

(03-26-2024 12:47 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 12:37 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 11:33 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:27 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:10 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  I think there's something to be said for the timing of it. Big difference between adding App, Coastal, JMU, and GS vs scraping the bottom of the barrel for SHSU and KSU. JSU and Delaware certainly deserve the add though.

SHSU had literally won the most recent football title when we added them. I got no excuse for KSU, but are we also going through the whole list of SB call-ups?

Took a while for USA to contribute. FXU never did much in the 'belt, did they? Georgia State had no history to speak of.

Weren't those all SB "call ups?"

That's fair. I was only thinking of the call ups that happened after we had joined. My point about SHSU was that despite their success they never grew a fanbase, or improved their facilities to a respectable level. You can't tell me they look like other FBS schools in that regard. As opposed to JSU for instance.

I really don’t understand your prerogative around the SBC’s addition of Coastal Carolina. You continue to throw their name in with App State and James Madison’s as if they even remotely compare as callups candidates. Yes the SBC had some “sure-thing additions” during their 20 year run as the callup league. Mountaineers and Dukes qualify (and the Eagles probably do too) when looking at your “three Fs”.

To say CCU is in that category is disingenuous, discrediting of the SBC leaderships’ decision making to this point or just straight up revisionist history. The Sun Belt has thrived on finding diamonds in the rough. Using hindsight we can say that the Chants WERE a home run addition. But did anything really scream home run when they were added in 2015, with a budget comparable to SHSU’s (and lower than Kennesaw’s) now, a 9000 seat football stadium and little history of FCS success, pre-CWS? Like, at least SHSU won something before getting an invite.

Maybe Sam or KSU will reach Coastal’s level of success in D1A football maybe they flop who the hell knows. But it’s not like the Sun Belt has just been adding the most FBS-worthy programs for the past 20 years. They’ve banked on potential and it’s payed off because they added smart. To say there’s a big difference between adding CCU and SHSU or KSU is just a severe case of short term memory.

What’s so different about them as candidates? A beach?

As mentioned before, they have won the College World Series.

Which still, to this day, is mind-blowing. Maybe the most unlikely title ever in a major college sport.

(03-26-2024 11:55 AM)inutech Wrote:  The point is that it's not any worse for CUSA to invite KSU to join (as much as I was against it) than it was for the 'belt to invite Georgia State. Or South Alabama. Or F_U. And it wasn't any worse for CUSA to invite NMSU than for the 'belt to invite Texas State* (or the MAC to invite UMass)

Please let us not forget the single most regrettable expansion by any present-day G5 football conference — yes, even worse than EMU to the MAC in '71 or any of the bottom-feeders to appear on Judy's whiteboard:

SBC commissioner Wright Waters, apparently suffering the effects of a concussion, adding Louisiana-Monroe in 2006.

(03-26-2024 12:47 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 12:37 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 11:33 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:27 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:10 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  I think there's something to be said for the timing of it. Big difference between adding App, Coastal, JMU, and GS vs scraping the bottom of the barrel for SHSU and KSU. JSU and Delaware certainly deserve the add though.

SHSU had literally won the most recent football title when we added them. I got no excuse for KSU, but are we also going through the whole list of SB call-ups?

Took a while for USA to contribute. FXU never did much in the 'belt, did they? Georgia State had no history to speak of.

Weren't those all SB "call ups?"

That's fair. I was only thinking of the call ups that happened after we had joined. My point about SHSU was that despite their success they never grew a fanbase, or improved their facilities to a respectable level. You can't tell me they look like other FBS schools in that regard. As opposed to JSU for instance.

I really don’t understand your prerogative around the SBC’s addition of Coastal Carolina. You continue to throw their name in with App State and James Madison’s as if they even remotely compare as callups candidates. Yes the SBC had some “sure-thing additions” during their 20 year run as the callup league. Mountaineers and Dukes qualify (and the Eagles probably do too) when looking at your “three Fs”.

To say CCU is in that category is disingenuous, discrediting of the SBC leaderships’ decision making to this point or just straight up revisionist history. The Sun Belt has thrived on finding diamonds in the rough. Using hindsight we can say that the Chants WERE a home run addition. But did anything really scream home run when they were added in 2015, with a budget comparable to SHSU’s (and lower than Kennesaw’s) now, a 9000 seat football stadium and little history of FCS success, pre-CWS? Like, at least SHSU won something before getting an invite.

Maybe Sam or KSU will reach Coastal’s level of success in D1A football maybe they flop who the hell knows. But it’s not like the Sun Belt has just been adding the most FBS-worthy programs for the past 20 years. They’ve banked on potential and it’s payed off because they added smart. To say there’s a big difference between adding CCU and SHSU or KSU is just a severe case of short term memory.

What’s so different about them as candidates? A beach?

As mentioned before, they have won the College World Series.

They won it a year after they’d accepted an invitation to the Sun Belt.

(03-26-2024 12:49 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 11:55 AM)inutech Wrote:  The point is that it's not any worse for CUSA to invite KSU to join (as much as I was against it) than it was for the 'belt to invite Georgia State. Or South Alabama. Or F_U. And it wasn't any worse for CUSA to invite NMSU than for the 'belt to invite Texas State* (or the MAC to invite UMass)

Please let us not forget the single most regrettable expansion by any present-day G5 football conference — yes, even worse than EMU to the MAC in '71 or any of the bottom-feeders to appear on Judy's whiteboard:

SBC commissioner Wright Waters, apparently suffering the effects of a concussion, adding Louisiana-Monroe in 2006.

They needed teams.

When you need teams, you invite the teams that you can get.

They also had Idaho for football at one point. And USU and NMSU. When you need teams, you need teams.

(03-26-2024 03:06 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 12:49 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 11:55 AM)inutech Wrote:  The point is that it's not any worse for CUSA to invite KSU to join (as much as I was against it) than it was for the 'belt to invite Georgia State. Or South Alabama. Or F_U. And it wasn't any worse for CUSA to invite NMSU than for the 'belt to invite Texas State* (or the MAC to invite UMass)

Please let us not forget the single most regrettable expansion by any present-day G5 football conference — yes, even worse than EMU to the MAC in '71 or any of the bottom-feeders to appear on Judy's whiteboard:

SBC commissioner Wright Waters, apparently suffering the effects of a concussion, adding Louisiana-Monroe in 2006.

They needed teams.

When you need teams, you invite the teams that you can get.

They also had Idaho for football at one point. And USU and NMSU. When you need teams, you need teams.

True, but for better or worse at least those schools were already FBS and didn't add anymore mouths to feed from the limited CFP pie or take up anymore recruits or timeslots than they already were, which were probably even more limited back then.

(03-26-2024 12:37 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 11:33 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:27 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:10 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 10:01 AM)inutech Wrote:  You're moving the target. That's like saying "yeah, but they have cool uniforms." The original (kinda stupid) argument was about calling up too many FCS football programs. Which is a thing the SB has also done.

Which I'm not sure is very relevant anyway.


The first post in this chain is trolly and ignorant and didn't deserve response to begin with. But once we went down that road, it's fair to point out that the 'belt was once just as bad or worse on the actual field and in respect to prospects for improvement and in calling up new FBS teams (if you think those things are somehow the end of the world, which I don't).

I think there's something to be said for the timing of it. Big difference between adding App, Coastal, JMU, and GS vs scraping the bottom of the barrel for SHSU and KSU. JSU and Delaware certainly deserve the add though.

SHSU had literally won the most recent football title when we added them. I got no excuse for KSU, but are we also going through the whole list of SB call-ups?

Took a while for USA to contribute. FXU never did much in the 'belt, did they? Georgia State had no history to speak of.

Weren't those all SB "call ups?"

That's fair. I was only thinking of the call ups that happened after we had joined. My point about SHSU was that despite their success they never grew a fanbase, or improved their facilities to a respectable level. You can't tell me they look like other FBS schools in that regard. As opposed to JSU for instance.

I really don’t understand your prerogative around the SBC’s addition of Coastal Carolina. You continue to throw their name in with App State and James Madison’s as if they even remotely compare as callups candidates. Yes the SBC had some “sure-thing additions” during their 20 year run as the callup league. Mountaineers and Dukes qualify (and the Eagles probably do too) when looking at your “three Fs”.

To say CCU is in that category is disingenuous, discrediting of the SBC leaderships’ decision making to this point or just straight up revisionist history. The Sun Belt has thrived on finding diamonds in the rough. Using hindsight we can say that the Chants WERE a home run addition. But did anything really scream home run when they were added in 2015, with a budget comparable to SHSU’s (and lower than Kennesaw’s) now, a 9000 seat football stadium and little history of FCS success, pre-CWS? Like, at least SHSU won something before getting an invite.

Maybe Sam or KSU will reach Coastal’s level of success in D1A football maybe they flop who the hell knows. But it’s not like the Sun Belt has just been adding the most FBS-worthy programs for the past 20 years. They’ve banked on potential and it’s payed off because they added smart. To say there’s a big difference between adding CCU and SHSU or KSU is just a severe case of short term memory.

What’s so different about them as candidates? A beach?

That's fair, definitely looking through hindsight in regards to them. Now that you mention it I don't really remember being that jazzed about their addition at the time, but even taking out all of their success, they've upgraded their facilities and upped their budget. I'm sure they wouldn't have been invited if they hadn't committed to do those things.

(03-27-2024 10:10 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 03:06 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 12:49 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 11:55 AM)inutech Wrote:  The point is that it's not any worse for CUSA to invite KSU to join (as much as I was against it) than it was for the 'belt to invite Georgia State. Or South Alabama. Or F_U. And it wasn't any worse for CUSA to invite NMSU than for the 'belt to invite Texas State* (or the MAC to invite UMass)

Please let us not forget the single most regrettable expansion by any present-day G5 football conference — yes, even worse than EMU to the MAC in '71 or any of the bottom-feeders to appear on Judy's whiteboard:

SBC commissioner Wright Waters, apparently suffering the effects of a concussion, adding Louisiana-Monroe in 2006.

They needed teams.

When you need teams, you invite the teams that you can get.

They also had Idaho for football at one point. And USU and NMSU. When you need teams, you need teams.

True, but for better or worse at least those schools were already FBS and didn't add anymore mouths to feed from the limited CFP pie or take up anymore recruits or timeslots than they already were, which were probably even more limited back then.

Yes, which is why I used those examples in response to this post about ULM (with NMSU being the CUSA 2024 analogy) and the others (F_U, Georgia State, USA, WKU, MTSU, CCU) in response to the KSU/JSU posts.


I don't know that any of it's a real problem.

Delaware spurning the CUSA for the MAC makes the most sense.

(03-27-2024 07:45 PM)Realignment Wrote:  Delaware spurning the CUSA for the MAC makes the most sense.

For whom?

(03-28-2024 12:12 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-27-2024 07:45 PM)Realignment Wrote:  Delaware spurning the CUSA for the MAC makes the most sense.

For whom?

With Inutech on this one. This is from yesterday's post on the MAC board.

My view is pretty simple, the MAC was not to interested in Delaware for the 14th member. Whether they are a flight risk as Delaware preferences are AAC #1, SBC #2, MAC#3 and finally their home. Maybe they did not have the support of enough MAC presidents. We know Delaware inquired to the MAC and they said not now. We know from Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher that UMass called in September regarding all sports membership. Jon Steinbrecher was on campus and attend UMass homecoming game on Nov 4th. Delaware committed to CUSA in late November.

The whole #14 thing is interesting as the MAC was not interested in WKU alone. Could it be like the Abraham Lincoln quote regarding UMass, they always wanted us all sports and made an exception. Idk, but enough to take some chances waiting for #14. Or could it be the WKU is still expressining more than casual interest in the MAC. Time will tell, but thinking WKU is the primary, if not the only major MAC interest.