When I say "rump ACC," I am talking about FSU, Clemson, UNC, and either UVa or Duke leaving. So, how could you take those leftovers and make something useful out of them?? The Big East did it, why can't the ACC??

“Basketball-centric” and “useful” are very different things.

Let’s go with “competitive.”

So what’s left? And, IMO, Virginia over Duke any day of the week.

Boston College, California, Duke, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina St, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, SMU, Stanford, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest


Step 1: Recognize this isn’t the worst starting point and getting my conference mates on board with sticking together. I’m not revealing how I’d do that. The ACC can hire me to be the commissioner if they want my golden nuggets.

Step 2: Expand to 18/19 with Memphis, Oregon St, South Florida, Tulane, and Washington St. This helps the 2024 additions, adds markets for the network, and competitiveness. It’s not an equal replacement but it’s better that status quo.

Step 3: Have all the schools fire their bad coaches and hire amazing coaches. Those coaches weed out bad players and bring in good players. Schedule difficultly OOC and win all those games.

Thats it.

i go after ASU, Utah, Colo, Kansas, USF, Conn

(03-17-2024 12:48 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  i go after ASU, Utah, Colo, Kansas, USF, Conn

I would add Arizona too.

It's not a bad strategy if you can get everybody to leave their current conference. Everybody you picked would be decent enough academically to satisfy the academic snobs in the ACC.

Getting the Big 12 members to leave would be tough. The Big 12 would probably counter with inviting GT, Lou, Pitt, Cuse, UConn to the Big 12. Either way you end up with the best basketball conference.

(03-17-2024 12:48 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  USF, Conn

Corrected.

St Johns Nova GTown should also get looked at.

(03-16-2024 10:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  “Basketball-centric” and “useful” are very different things.

Let’s go with “competitive.”

So what’s left? And, IMO, Virginia over Duke any day of the week.

Boston College, California, Duke, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina St, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, SMU, Stanford, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest


Step 1: Recognize this isn’t the worst starting point and getting my conference mates on board with sticking together. I’m not revealing how I’d do that. The ACC can hire me to be the commissioner if they want my golden nuggets.

Step 2: Expand to 18/19 with Memphis, Oregon St, South Florida, Tulane, and Washington St. This helps the 2024 additions, adds markets for the network, and competitiveness. It’s not an equal replacement but it’s better that status quo.

Step 3: Have all the schools fire their bad coaches and hire amazing coaches. Those coaches weed out bad players and bring in good players. Schedule difficultly OOC and win all those games.

Thats it.

I'd throw in UCONN and San Diego St. as well for 20/21. Adds southern Cal and taps further tap into NYC. They're also better basketball brands than most, if not all, on your expansion list.

you want to look at Gtown for BB help
Jay Wright not coming back thru the door
Conn probably has more pull in NYC, than St John

(03-17-2024 06:56 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  you want to look at Gtown for BB help
Jay Wright not coming back thru the door
Conn probably has more pull in NYC, than St John

I'm assuming no BE or B12 teams unless the ACC uses exit and GOR fees to steal teams away, which I struggle to see happen.

ESPN and the SEC could elect to make the rump ACC more football-centric instead. What if they invited UNC, Duke, Virginia and Kansas, and left the league with FSU, Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech, NC State, Louisville, Pitt and Georgia Tech? They wouldn't have to backfill at all, staying at 14 teams, since there aren't any more football programs that are additive (and willing to join the ACC).

The SEC would become both the strongest football conference and the strongest in basketball as well, cornering the market on hoops blue bloods.

I'm more interested in making lemonade from lemons for basketball and football.

The left over schools with value need to separate themselves from Wake Forest. If you ever run the numbers you will realize they are a ratings drag on who ever they play; FSU, ND, Clemson, etc., it does not matter if they are good or not. They are fine as a good G5 program that you can bring in for homecoming, but the ACC has propped them up without getting much value in return. SMU, Cal and Stanford would either need to find another conference or the ACC needs to fill out a western wing; there is no combination of these 3 vs the left over ACC that sounds remotely interesting past the honeymoon phase.

I assume ND is still obligated to play 5 ACC teams a season, give them annual traditional games vs BC, Pitt and Miami, rotate the other 2. Doing so you will get 2-3 guaranteed prime time games a season. Miami will still have FSU, NCSU will still have UNC, VT still has UVA, UL still has UK and GT still has UGA as annual OOC games.

Atlantic - UL, Cinci, VT, Memphis, Pitt, WVU
Coastal - Miami, UConn, SU, BC, GT, NCSU

Miami has the potential to stand out from the pack, but everybody else except maybe UConn can be decent-good in football. Basketball looks good.

(03-17-2024 08:09 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  SMU, Cal and Stanford would either need to find another conference or the ACC needs to fill out a western wing; there is no combination of these 3 vs the left over ACC that sounds remotely interesting past the honeymoon phase.

Shotgun weddings don't get a honeymoon

(03-17-2024 08:09 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I'm more interested in making lemonade from lemons for basketball and football.

The left over schools with value need to separate themselves from Wake Forest. If you ever run the numbers you will realize they are a ratings drag on who ever they play; FSU, ND, Clemson, etc., it does not matter if they are good or not. They are fine as a good G5 program that you can bring in for homecoming, but the ACC has propped them up without getting much value in return. SMU, Cal and Stanford would either need to find another conference or the ACC needs to fill out a western wing; there is no combination of these 3 vs the left over ACC that sounds remotely interesting past the honeymoon phase.

I assume ND is still obligated to play 5 ACC teams a season, give them annual traditional games vs BC, Pitt and Miami, rotate the other 2. Doing so you will get 2-3 guaranteed prime time games a season. Miami will still have FSU, NCSU will still have UNC, VT still has UVA, UL still has UK and GT still has UGA as annual OOC games.

Atlantic - UL, Cinci, VT, Memphis, Pitt, WVU
Coastal - Miami, UConn, SU, BC, GT, NCSU

Miami has the potential to stand out from the pack, but everybody else except maybe UConn can be decent-good in football. Basketball looks good.

It’s amazing how you can follow the conference and be so wrong all the time. Notre Dame and Stanford were the two loudest voices in the room concerning the western expansion. So yes, even if FSU and Clemson were to leave, there wouldn’t be any issues because Notre Dame and Stanford want to be linked. Cal is a travel partner tag along and SMU fits the profile of the Magnolia League, plus they are paying for themselves and making more money in their CFP payout ($12.5m vs $13.5m w/ out FSU and Clemson) than they were in the AAC.

(03-16-2024 09:32 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  When I say "rump ACC," I am talking about FSU, Clemson, UNC, and either UVa or Duke leaving. So, how could you take those leftovers and make something useful out of them?? The Big East did it, why can't the ACC??

Strictly mho, and this may be nitpicking, but Miami is far more likely than Duke to receive a P2 invite. They have a much higher football ceiling than Duke (and Virginia, for that matter) and they're located in one of the most talent-rich states in the nation. The Big Ten, in particular, needs Miami more than it needs Duke.

The good news is that if you're looking to make the ACC more basketball-centric, keeping Duke and losing Miami is a step in the right direction. I agree, however, that the Big XII likely will try to raid the ACC after the P2 takes the programs it wants.

What happened to ACC basketball?

(03-16-2024 09:32 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  When I say "rump ACC," I am talking about FSU, Clemson, UNC, and either UVa or Duke leaving. So, how could you take those leftovers and make something useful out of them?? The Big East did it, why can't the ACC??

If they want to make it more basketball centric then they could invite half the BE. Problem solved.

(03-17-2024 08:27 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:09 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I'm more interested in making lemonade from lemons for basketball and football.

The left over schools with value need to separate themselves from Wake Forest. If you ever run the numbers you will realize they are a ratings drag on who ever they play; FSU, ND, Clemson, etc., it does not matter if they are good or not. They are fine as a good G5 program that you can bring in for homecoming, but the ACC has propped them up without getting much value in return. SMU, Cal and Stanford would either need to find another conference or the ACC needs to fill out a western wing; there is no combination of these 3 vs the left over ACC that sounds remotely interesting past the honeymoon phase.

I assume ND is still obligated to play 5 ACC teams a season, give them annual traditional games vs BC, Pitt and Miami, rotate the other 2. Doing so you will get 2-3 guaranteed prime time games a season. Miami will still have FSU, NCSU will still have UNC, VT still has UVA, UL still has UK and GT still has UGA as annual OOC games.

Atlantic - UL, Cinci, VT, Memphis, Pitt, WVU
Coastal - Miami, UConn, SU, BC, GT, NCSU

Miami has the potential to stand out from the pack, but everybody else except maybe UConn can be decent-good in football. Basketball looks good.

It’s amazing how you can follow the conference and be so wrong all the time. Notre Dame and Stanford were the two loudest voices in the room concerning the western expansion. So yes, even if FSU and Clemson were to leave, there wouldn’t be any issues because Notre Dame and Stanford want to be linked. Cal is a travel partner tag along and SMU fits the profile of the Magnolia League, plus they are paying for themselves and making more money in their CFP payout ($12.5m vs $13.5m w/ out FSU and Clemson) than they were in the AAC.

When you lose 4-5 members as outlined in the scenario, all of a sudden things change. ND can play Stanford in a conference other than the ACC like they have been doing for many years.

(03-17-2024 12:19 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:27 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:09 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I'm more interested in making lemonade from lemons for basketball and football.

The left over schools with value need to separate themselves from Wake Forest. If you ever run the numbers you will realize they are a ratings drag on who ever they play; FSU, ND, Clemson, etc., it does not matter if they are good or not. They are fine as a good G5 program that you can bring in for homecoming, but the ACC has propped them up without getting much value in return. SMU, Cal and Stanford would either need to find another conference or the ACC needs to fill out a western wing; there is no combination of these 3 vs the left over ACC that sounds remotely interesting past the honeymoon phase.

I assume ND is still obligated to play 5 ACC teams a season, give them annual traditional games vs BC, Pitt and Miami, rotate the other 2. Doing so you will get 2-3 guaranteed prime time games a season. Miami will still have FSU, NCSU will still have UNC, VT still has UVA, UL still has UK and GT still has UGA as annual OOC games.

Atlantic - UL, Cinci, VT, Memphis, Pitt, WVU
Coastal - Miami, UConn, SU, BC, GT, NCSU

Miami has the potential to stand out from the pack, but everybody else except maybe UConn can be decent-good in football. Basketball looks good.

It’s amazing how you can follow the conference and be so wrong all the time. Notre Dame and Stanford were the two loudest voices in the room concerning the western expansion. So yes, even if FSU and Clemson were to leave, there wouldn’t be any issues because Notre Dame and Stanford want to be linked. Cal is a travel partner tag along and SMU fits the profile of the Magnolia League, plus they are paying for themselves and making more money in their CFP payout ($12.5m vs $13.5m w/ out FSU and Clemson) than they were in the AAC.

When you lose 4-5 members as outlined in the scenario, all of a sudden things change. ND can play Stanford in a conference other than the ACC like they have been doing for many years.

I don't believe Carolina and Virginia football are worth $21m/year for a CFP payout share. I am throwing my own school under the bus here, but if all of these ACC programs were such hot commodities, then the conference would be getting higher than a $13.5m payout. It just doesn't add up, because only Clemson and FSU have secured playoff bids. The committee made it clear the CFP payout is based on playoff appearances and you bash Wake here, but they're no different than the legions of Big Ten and SEC schools that haven't made the playoffs.

What I've been saying the entire time is the ACC is pretty much the same level as the Big XII if FSU and Clemson are gone. It's very much like the Big East of the 90's with Miami, except Miami isn't very good and Louisville is actually going to be the new Miami. Mark it down.

Ask yourself this: if the SEC added FSU and Clemson tomorrow, would the SEC schools receive more than $21m/year—a larger payout than the B18? I don't believe so. They would keep the $21m/year payout standard and subtract it from the ACC payout. I believe this is the built in higher percentage for the ACC. Performance is the standard here, and frankly nobody else in the ACC has made the playoff except one-off Notre Dame, which doesn't count.

(03-17-2024 08:09 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I'm more interested in making lemonade from lemons for basketball and football.

The left over schools with value need to separate themselves from Wake Forest. If you ever run the numbers you will realize they are a ratings drag on who ever they play; FSU, ND, Clemson, etc., it does not matter if they are good or not. They are fine as a good G5 program that you can bring in for homecoming, but the ACC has propped them up without getting much value in return. SMU, Cal and Stanford would either need to find another conference or the ACC needs to fill out a western wing; there is no combination of these 3 vs the left over ACC that sounds remotely interesting past the honeymoon phase.

I assume ND is still obligated to play 5 ACC teams a season, give them annual traditional games vs BC, Pitt and Miami, rotate the other 2. Doing so you will get 2-3 guaranteed prime time games a season. Miami will still have FSU, NCSU will still have UNC, VT still has UVA, UL still has UK and GT still has UGA as annual OOC games.

Atlantic - UL, Cinci, VT, Memphis, Pitt, WVU
Coastal - Miami, UConn, SU, BC, GT, NCSU

Miami has the potential to stand out from the pack, but everybody else except maybe UConn can be decent-good in football. Basketball looks good.

Separate from Wake Forest? .Now I see why Frank the Tank used to get so angry about throwing private schools out of conferences. Wake does have value; it's just not really in football, although they have done well in football recently. Winston-Salem is definitely bigger Troy, AL or Statesboro, GA, IMO, so Wake's location isn't the problem, IMO, and it's a secular private school so faith/religion isn't holding it back either, again, IMHO.

(03-17-2024 12:56 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:09 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I'm more interested in making lemonade from lemons for basketball and football.

The left over schools with value need to separate themselves from Wake Forest. If you ever run the numbers you will realize they are a ratings drag on who ever they play; FSU, ND, Clemson, etc., it does not matter if they are good or not. They are fine as a good G5 program that you can bring in for homecoming, but the ACC has propped them up without getting much value in return. SMU, Cal and Stanford would either need to find another conference or the ACC needs to fill out a western wing; there is no combination of these 3 vs the left over ACC that sounds remotely interesting past the honeymoon phase.

I assume ND is still obligated to play 5 ACC teams a season, give them annual traditional games vs BC, Pitt and Miami, rotate the other 2. Doing so you will get 2-3 guaranteed prime time games a season. Miami will still have FSU, NCSU will still have UNC, VT still has UVA, UL still has UK and GT still has UGA as annual OOC games.

Atlantic - UL, Cinci, VT, Memphis, Pitt, WVU
Coastal - Miami, UConn, SU, BC, GT, NCSU

Miami has the potential to stand out from the pack, but everybody else except maybe UConn can be decent-good in football. Basketball looks good.

Separate from Wake Forest? .Now I see why Frank the Tank used to get so angry about throwing private schools out of conferences. Wake does have value; it's just not really in football, although they have done well in football recently. Winston-Salem is definitely bigger Troy, AL or Statesboro, GA, IMO, so Wake's location isn't the problem, IMO, and it's a secular private school so faith/religion isn't holding it back either, again, IMHO.

By far the lowest ratings in the ACC for the biggest money sport. There is a reason they never get mentioned in realignment discussions.

(03-17-2024 01:15 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 12:56 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:09 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I'm more interested in making lemonade from lemons for basketball and football.

The left over schools with value need to separate themselves from Wake Forest. If you ever run the numbers you will realize they are a ratings drag on who ever they play; FSU, ND, Clemson, etc., it does not matter if they are good or not. They are fine as a good G5 program that you can bring in for homecoming, but the ACC has propped them up without getting much value in return. SMU, Cal and Stanford would either need to find another conference or the ACC needs to fill out a western wing; there is no combination of these 3 vs the left over ACC that sounds remotely interesting past the honeymoon phase.

I assume ND is still obligated to play 5 ACC teams a season, give them annual traditional games vs BC, Pitt and Miami, rotate the other 2. Doing so you will get 2-3 guaranteed prime time games a season. Miami will still have FSU, NCSU will still have UNC, VT still has UVA, UL still has UK and GT still has UGA as annual OOC games.

Atlantic - UL, Cinci, VT, Memphis, Pitt, WVU
Coastal - Miami, UConn, SU, BC, GT, NCSU

Miami has the potential to stand out from the pack, but everybody else except maybe UConn can be decent-good in football. Basketball looks good.

Separate from Wake Forest? .Now I see why Frank the Tank used to get so angry about throwing private schools out of conferences. Wake does have value; it's just not really in football, although they have done well in football recently. Winston-Salem is definitely bigger Troy, AL or Statesboro, GA, IMO, so Wake's location isn't the problem, IMO, and it's a secular private school so faith/religion isn't holding it back either, again, IMHO.

By far the lowest ratings in the ACC for the biggest money sport. There is a reason they never get mentioned in realignment discussions.

Vandy has comparable ratings to Wake and the B1G wanted them. Hmm.