I've been thinking about what it would take to add Big12 teams with an eye on the 192 million they are getting. How many teams would it take to topple them into the 1.8 million range? Supposedly Yormark put a clause in that there is an adjustment if there is realignment. The G5 are making 1.8m each for reference.

So could you invite 9 of 16 schools and get the value?

Say you invite AZ, ASU, Utah, Colorado, Kansas, OSU, TT, TCU, and WVU....maybe Cincy instead of one. Would Houston, BYU, UCF, KSU, Baylor, and ISU drop to MWC level payouts?

Could adding 9 schools bring in 178m? That would raise everyone's average several million. It should help open up contract negotiations with ESPN. Surely the basketball tournament alone would be worth a bit more. Olympic sports could be regionalism a lot with 26 to 28 teams.

I think it's going to be a long time before the B12 or ACC lose teams.

Maybe FSU. If not, at least another 6 years.

(03-15-2024 05:55 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I think it's going to be a long time before the B12 or ACC lose teams.

Maybe FSU. If not, at least another 6 years.

Is a simple majority enough to break their contracts though?

(03-15-2024 06:00 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 05:55 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I think it's going to be a long time before the B12 or ACC lose teams.

Maybe FSU. If not, at least another 6 years.

Is a simple majority enough to break their contracts though?

I assumed 75% like the ACC.

The ACC could try to merge with 12 B12 schools. See this thread.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-984481.html

(03-15-2024 06:55 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 06:00 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 05:55 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I think it's going to be a long time before the B12 or ACC lose teams.

Maybe FSU. If not, at least another 6 years.

Is a simple majority enough to break their contracts though?

I assumed 75% like the ACC.

The ACC could try to merge with 12 B12 schools. See this thread.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-984481.html

Merging doesn't improve the money situation. It would just dilute it.

I'd rather steal from the P2.

(03-15-2024 07:27 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 06:55 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 06:00 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 05:55 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I think it's going to be a long time before the B12 or ACC lose teams.

Maybe FSU. If not, at least another 6 years.

Is a simple majority enough to break their contracts though?

I assumed 75% like the ACC.

The ACC could try to merge with 12 B12 schools. See this thread.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-984481.html

Merging doesn't improve the money situation. It would just dilute it.

You want to steal 9 schools. The B12 may keep the M status though. My proposal is adding 12 teams and will surely kill the B12.

(03-15-2024 05:42 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  I've been thinking about what it would take to add Big12 teams with an eye on the 192 million they are getting.
....

In the event of 'further realignment' the entire CFP contract can be voided and redone.

There's little point in throwing elbows over slivers of the pie. ESPN and the P2 don't need the hassle. They can just go to the oven and bake a new pie.

I'm sorry but if we're depending on Phillips and ACC leadership to be more aggressive then Yormark and Big 12 leadership we're going to be disappointed.

The ACC is a basketball league with a football problem. They recognized it when they invited FSU in 1991. They knew it when they invited Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College to join in 2004. They tried to forget it in 2012 until FSU and Clemson forced them to invite Louisville over UConn.

I'm not convinced present ACC leadership cares enough about football, or understands the importance of football enough to be proactive when it comes to increasing the conference's CFP share.

Truth is we're more likely to see The Big 12 targeting ACC schools than vice versa.

It would be better if the "academic" focused schools saw the writing on the wall and formed a Magnolia League. UNC, UVA, Duke, Wake, Stan, Cal, SMU, Tulane, Rice.

The rest of the ACC can backfill to get to 12: FSU, Clem, GT, UM, NCSU, VT, UL, Pitt, SU, BC and grab WVU, Cinci, (ND), (UConn)

The Big12 see's what's going on and decide that it would be better if the Pac rebuilt and we get back to a regional identity: TCU, TTU, Baylor, Ok. St, UH, KSU, KU, ISU, CU, UCF, USF, Memphis

nPac - OSU, WSU, BSU, Fresno, SDSU, NM, Az, ASU, Utah, (Gonz)


What we have is four M level conferences that make a ton of sense. The nACC get's FSU, Clemson and UM close enough to P status that we would not think about jumping even if we had a landing spot.

The Magnolia League is unique and can claim academic superiority over every other conference other than the Ivey.

The nPAC quickly realizes that Fresno, BSU, Utah, WSU, OSU make for nice rivalries, while SDSU and NM compliments the 'zona schools basketball.

The remainders of the AAC absorb into the MWC and C-USA.

You all are missing a major issue. Let's live in a world where the Big 12 didn't have exit fees and a GOR. Let's also live in the world that you invite the schools you mentioned and they accept ACC inviting.

Ok, so it happened. You want to know what happens next with the money? The left behinds in the Big 12 drop, maybe close to G5 level. You want to know what happens to the pay of the new larger and stronger ACC? Maybe it goes up a little, maybe it stays the same. The bigger point is that the SEC/B1G will make sure 95% of the old Big 12 share just gets diverted to them. ACC will get the remainder 5% and be happy about it lol

(03-16-2024 07:46 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  It would be better if the "academic" focused schools saw the writing on the wall and formed a Magnolia League. UNC, UVA, Duke, Wake, Stan, Cal, SMU, Tulane, Rice.

The rest of the ACC can backfill to get to 12: FSU, Clem, GT, UM, NCSU, VT, UL, Pitt, SU, BC and grab WVU, Cinci, (ND), (UConn)

The Big12 see's what's going on and decide that it would be better if the Pac rebuilt and we get back to a regional identity: TCU, TTU, Baylor, Ok. St, UH, KSU, KU, ISU, CU, UCF, USF, Memphis

nPac - OSU, WSU, BSU, Fresno, SDSU, NM, Az, ASU, Utah, (Gonz)

What we have is four M level conferences that make a ton of sense. The nACC get's FSU, Clemson and UM close enough to P status that we would not think about jumping even if we had a landing spot.

The Magnolia League is unique and can claim academic superiority over every other conference other than the Ivey.

The nPAC quickly realizes that Fresno, BSU, Utah, WSU, OSU make for nice rivalries, while SDSU and NM compliments the 'zona schools basketball.

The remainders of the AAC absorb into the MWC and C-USA.

Adding Cincinnati and Connecticut puts a nationally ambitious program 'close enough to P status that we would not think about jumping even if we had a landing spot'?

Clemson and Florida State would be out of there so fast Einstein would have to rethink some equations.

(03-16-2024 08:10 AM)otown Wrote:  You all are missing a major issue. Let's live in a world where the Big 12 didn't have exit fees and a GOR. Let's also live in the world that you invite the schools you mentioned and they accept ACC inviting.

Ok, so it happened. You want to know what happens next with the money? The left behinds in the Big 12 drop, maybe close to G5 level. You want to know what happens to the pay of the new larger and stronger ACC? Maybe it goes up a little, maybe it stays the same. The bigger point is that the SEC/B1G will make sure 95% of the old Big 12 share just gets diverted to them. ACC will get the remainder 5% and be happy about it lol

Exactly. It's a P2 world. Other conferences are just allowed to live in it.

For now.

(03-16-2024 08:59 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 07:46 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  It would be better if the "academic" focused schools saw the writing on the wall and formed a Magnolia League. UNC, UVA, Duke, Wake, Stan, Cal, SMU, Tulane, Rice.

The rest of the ACC can backfill to get to 12: FSU, Clem, GT, UM, NCSU, VT, UL, Pitt, SU, BC and grab WVU, Cinci, (ND), (UConn)

The Big12 see's what's going on and decide that it would be better if the Pac rebuilt and we get back to a regional identity: TCU, TTU, Baylor, Ok. St, UH, KSU, KU, ISU, CU, UCF, USF, Memphis

nPac - OSU, WSU, BSU, Fresno, SDSU, NM, Az, ASU, Utah, (Gonz)

What we have is four M level conferences that make a ton of sense. The nACC get's FSU, Clemson and UM close enough to P status that we would not think about jumping even if we had a landing spot.

The Magnolia League is unique and can claim academic superiority over every other conference other than the Ivey.

The nPAC quickly realizes that Fresno, BSU, Utah, WSU, OSU make for nice rivalries, while SDSU and NM compliments the 'zona schools basketball.

The remainders of the AAC absorb into the MWC and C-USA.

Adding Cincinnati and Connecticut puts a nationally ambitious program 'close enough to P status that we would not think about jumping even if we had a landing spot'?

Clemson and Florida State would be out of there so fast Einstein would have to rethink some equations.

The point is getting the money close enough. UConn wouid be a non-football member, Cinci brings a populous state for ACCN purposes and they are not dilutive in football and basketball.

(03-16-2024 09:06 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 08:59 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 07:46 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  It would be better if the "academic" focused schools saw the writing on the wall and formed a Magnolia League. UNC, UVA, Duke, Wake, Stan, Cal, SMU, Tulane, Rice.

The rest of the ACC can backfill to get to 12: FSU, Clem, GT, UM, NCSU, VT, UL, Pitt, SU, BC and grab WVU, Cinci, (ND), (UConn)

The Big12 see's what's going on and decide that it would be better if the Pac rebuilt and we get back to a regional identity: TCU, TTU, Baylor, Ok. St, UH, KSU, KU, ISU, CU, UCF, USF, Memphis

nPac - OSU, WSU, BSU, Fresno, SDSU, NM, Az, ASU, Utah, (Gonz)

What we have is four M level conferences that make a ton of sense. The nACC get's FSU, Clemson and UM close enough to P status that we would not think about jumping even if we had a landing spot.

The Magnolia League is unique and can claim academic superiority over every other conference other than the Ivey.

The nPAC quickly realizes that Fresno, BSU, Utah, WSU, OSU make for nice rivalries, while SDSU and NM compliments the 'zona schools basketball.

The remainders of the AAC absorb into the MWC and C-USA.

Adding Cincinnati and Connecticut puts a nationally ambitious program 'close enough to P status that we would not think about jumping even if we had a landing spot'?

Clemson and Florida State would be out of there so fast Einstein would have to rethink some equations.

The point is getting the money close enough. UConn wouid be a non-football member, Cinci brings a populous state for ACCN purposes and they are not dilutive in football and basketball.

There's no way to arrange raisins on a plate that will turn them into diamonds.

(03-16-2024 07:12 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I'm sorry but if we're depending on Phillips and ACC leadership to be more aggressive then Yormark and Big 12 leadership we're going to be disappointed.

The ACC is a basketball league with a football problem. They recognized it when they invited FSU in 1991. They knew it when they invited Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College to join in 2004. They tried to forget it in 2012 until FSU and Clemson forced them to invite Louisville over UConn.

I'm not convinced present ACC leadership cares enough about football, or understands the importance of football enough to be proactive when it comes to increasing the conference's CFP share.

Truth is we're more likely to see The Big 12 targeting ACC schools than vice versa.

The Big XII is essentially the old Mountain West. They are firmly a western league with a couple of stragglers. They have zero East Coast presence and this is why Yormark is attempting to do things in NYC etc. He couldn't convince his Great Plains-Texas-Mountain West conference to bring in UConn.

I'm not convinced the CFP payout plummets if/when FSU leaves. I feel as though the built in higher percentage takes them and Clemson into account. If FSU leaves, then perhaps the CFP payout is reduced by ~$21m/year to account for them moving to an SEC or Big Ten share.

13.5 x 17 = 229.5

- 21 = 208.5

208.5/ 16 = $13.03m/ year

If we double the 21 to 42 and do the math divided by 15 we end up with a $12.5m/year payout. Still ahead of the Big XII.

(03-16-2024 09:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 07:12 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I'm sorry but if we're depending on Phillips and ACC leadership to be more aggressive then Yormark and Big 12 leadership we're going to be disappointed.

The ACC is a basketball league with a football problem. They recognized it when they invited FSU in 1991. They knew it when they invited Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College to join in 2004. They tried to forget it in 2012 until FSU and Clemson forced them to invite Louisville over UConn.

I'm not convinced present ACC leadership cares enough about football, or understands the importance of football enough to be proactive when it comes to increasing the conference's CFP share.

Truth is we're more likely to see The Big 12 targeting ACC schools than vice versa.

The Big XII is essentially the old Mountain West. They are firmly a western league with a couple of stragglers. They have zero East Coast presence and this is why Yormark is attempting to do things in NYC etc. He couldn't convince his Great Plains-Texas-Mountain West conference to bring in UConn.

I'm not convinced the CFP payout plummets if/when FSU leaves. I feel as though the built in higher percentage takes them and Clemson into account. If FSU leaves, then perhaps the CFP payout is reduced by ~$21m/year to account for them moving to an SEC or Big Ten share.

13.5 x 17 = 229.5

- 21 = 208.5

208.5/ 16 = $13.03m/ year

If we double the 21 to 42 and do the math divided by 15 we end up with a $12.5m/year payout. Still ahead of the Big XII.

I think this is just the 1st step in breaking away from the NCAA and cutting out the middle man when it comes to this multi-billion dollar bball tourney. And, that is why ESPN will not lose any of its content. Right now, ESPN has a roster that not only contain the past football champs and contenders, but also contain the past basketball champs and contenders.

(03-16-2024 07:12 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I'm sorry but if we're depending on Phillips and ACC leadership to be more aggressive then Yormark and Big 12 leadership we're going to be disappointed.

The ACC is a basketball league with a football problem. They recognized it when they invited FSU in 1991. They knew it when they invited Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College to join in 2004. They tried to forget it in 2012 until FSU and Clemson forced them to invite Louisville over UConn.

I'm not convinced present ACC leadership cares enough about football, or understands the importance of football enough to be proactive when it comes to increasing the conference's CFP share.

Truth is we're more likely to see The Big 12 targeting ACC schools than vice versa.

The B12 has some basketball brands including Kansas and Houston.

The leadership matters but Phillips is not as clueless as he used to be and the ACC leadership will have to consider an expansion once FSU finally leaves.

The real question is what ESPN wants. As long as ESPN continues to back the ACC, the ACC will have an upper hand over the B12.

(03-15-2024 05:42 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  I've been thinking about what it would take to add Big12 teams with an eye on the 192 million they are getting. How many teams would it take to topple them into the 1.8 million range? Supposedly Yormark put a clause in that there is an adjustment if there is realignment. The G5 are making 1.8m each for reference.

So could you invite 9 of 16 schools and get the value?

Say you invite AZ, ASU, Utah, Colorado, Kansas, OSU, TT, TCU, and WVU....maybe Cincy instead of one. Would Houston, BYU, UCF, KSU, Baylor, and ISU drop to MWC level payouts?

Could adding 9 schools bring in 178m? That would raise everyone's average several million. It should help open up contract negotiations with ESPN. Surely the basketball tournament alone would be worth a bit more. Olympic sports could be regionalism a lot with 26 to 28 teams.

First, the ACC can only contractually expand with one additional program. ESPN isn’t providing any additional funding to the ACC…especially now that FSU-ACC lawsuits are underway. Plus, ESPN’s contract with the B12 goes through 2030, so expansion with a B12 team would have to be a mutually desired change. In other words, all parties (ACC, B12, and the school) would have to agree on the realignment.

Second, the B1G and SEC have the most say in distributing the CFP revenue. Therefore, the ACC can’t game the payouts because the B1G and SEC will just change the rules so they benefit from any realignment.

(03-16-2024 01:23 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  The B12 has some basketball brands including Kansas and Houston.

The leadership matters but Phillips is not as clueless as he used to be and the ACC leadership will have to consider an expansion once FSU finally leaves.

The real question is what ESPN wants. As long as ESPN continues to back the ACC, the ACC will have an upper hand over the B12.

Then the ACC is in fine shape there through 2027.