(03-20-2024 07:03 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:46 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:26 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 11:14 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:52 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Pierre was terrible defensively on an already awful defensive team... He was lost every second on he was on the defensive side of the court.

How could you tell when he hardly played ? Who actually was a good defender on this team?

Because I watched the games... It was obvious he was completely lost defensively.

The squad as a whole was bad. But Pierre was not just a bad defender was clearly lost in the defensive scheme at large. It is one thing to be in position or rotate correctly and get beat and a totally different issue when you are not in the correct position or rotating properly. Pierre was consistently out of position or not rotating properly on defense.

Are you kidding? He was probably the best defender off the bench with Carl being a close second.

No, not kidding at all. He was completely lost on the defensive end of the court. I have no idea what you saw to lead you to believe he is a quality defender. He was almost always out of position defensively and clearly did not understand the defensive rotations.

After Mills' injury there were no "quality" defenders.

(03-20-2024 07:26 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:03 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:46 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:26 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 11:14 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  How could you tell when he hardly played ? Who actually was a good defender on this team?

Because I watched the games... It was obvious he was completely lost defensively.

The squad as a whole was bad. But Pierre was not just a bad defender was clearly lost in the defensive scheme at large. It is one thing to be in position or rotate correctly and get beat and a totally different issue when you are not in the correct position or rotating properly. Pierre was consistently out of position or not rotating properly on defense.

Are you kidding? He was probably the best defender off the bench with Carl being a close second.

No, not kidding at all. He was completely lost on the defensive end of the court. I have no idea what you saw to lead you to believe he is a quality defender. He was almost always out of position defensively and clearly did not understand the defensive rotations.

After Mills' injury there were no "quality" defenders.

I agree.

But there is still a significant difference between being in position and rotating properly and just struggling to defend as opposed to being out of position and missing rotations, the later was Pierre's problem. Coaches tend to a have pretty low tolerance and a short leash for guys who simply cannot keep up in that regard.

(03-20-2024 07:03 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:46 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:26 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 11:14 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:52 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Pierre was terrible defensively on an already awful defensive team... He was lost every second on he was on the defensive side of the court.

How could you tell when he hardly played ? Who actually was a good defender on this team?

Because I watched the games... It was obvious he was completely lost defensively.

The squad as a whole was bad. But Pierre was not just a bad defender was clearly lost in the defensive scheme at large. It is one thing to be in position or rotate correctly and get beat and a totally different issue when you are not in the correct position or rotating properly. Pierre was consistently out of position or not rotating properly on defense.

Are you kidding? He was probably the best defender off the bench with Carl being a close second.

No, not kidding at all. He was completely lost on the defensive end of the court. I have no idea what you saw to lead you to believe he is a quality defender. He was almost always out of position defensively and clearly did not understand the defensive rotations.

Carl and Him were the only two players on the team who ever closed out on a 3pt shooter. Rotations are a symptom of low minutes, but neither were as bad as Jayden/Ashton/Malcolm at rotating. You can likely count on one or two hands the total baskets both conceded this year.

(03-20-2024 09:39 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:03 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:46 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:26 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 11:14 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  How could you tell when he hardly played ? Who actually was a good defender on this team?

Because I watched the games... It was obvious he was completely lost defensively.

The squad as a whole was bad. But Pierre was not just a bad defender was clearly lost in the defensive scheme at large. It is one thing to be in position or rotate correctly and get beat and a totally different issue when you are not in the correct position or rotating properly. Pierre was consistently out of position or not rotating properly on defense.

Are you kidding? He was probably the best defender off the bench with Carl being a close second.

No, not kidding at all. He was completely lost on the defensive end of the court. I have no idea what you saw to lead you to believe he is a quality defender. He was almost always out of position defensively and clearly did not understand the defensive rotations.

Carl and Him were the only two players on the team who ever closed out on a 3pt shooter. Rotations are a symptom of low minutes, but neither were as bad as Jayden/Ashton/Malcolm at rotating. You can likely count on one or two hands the total baskets both conceded this year.

So the sample size is too small to get any metrics on him, but big enough that you're convinced he's one of the best defenders on the team?

(03-20-2024 10:52 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 09:39 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:03 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:46 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:26 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Because I watched the games... It was obvious he was completely lost defensively.

The squad as a whole was bad. But Pierre was not just a bad defender was clearly lost in the defensive scheme at large. It is one thing to be in position or rotate correctly and get beat and a totally different issue when you are not in the correct position or rotating properly. Pierre was consistently out of position or not rotating properly on defense.

Are you kidding? He was probably the best defender off the bench with Carl being a close second.

No, not kidding at all. He was completely lost on the defensive end of the court. I have no idea what you saw to lead you to believe he is a quality defender. He was almost always out of position defensively and clearly did not understand the defensive rotations.

Carl and Him were the only two players on the team who ever closed out on a 3pt shooter. Rotations are a symptom of low minutes, but neither were as bad as Jayden/Ashton/Malcolm at rotating. You can likely count on one or two hands the total baskets both conceded this year.

So the sample size is too small to get any metrics on him, but big enough that you're convinced he's one of the best defenders on the team?

You know the good ole fashioned way of using your eyeballs.

(03-15-2024 10:10 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 10:04 PM)hsvtiger Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 10:01 PM)dwash Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 09:55 PM)micman Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 08:07 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  I’m so glad I don’t have to watch him and Malcolm play anymore. Please tell me they don’t get a 6th year. Now I gotta deal with Ashton for 3 more

Ashton is a very skilled offensive player. And he’s tall. He’ll be able to contribute .

He is a traffic cone

Ashton needs to be living in the weight room getting stronger and working on his quickness. He can be very good but he is not physically ready for D1 basketball.

Ashton appears to be a catch & shoot guy, nothing more. Too slow to play good man-D & not tough enough to rebound. Will never be effective playing Penny's style of trap D & Penny won't change his approach to suit the talent he has

High school and AAU coaches are ruining 6-7 to 6-9 kids by letting them hang out at the 3 point line and never get dirty. If you are that size you need to be in or near the paint. If you can shoot 3 pointers they can set up plays for you. Just get involved in the damn game.

(03-20-2024 09:39 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:03 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:46 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:26 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 11:14 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  How could you tell when he hardly played ? Who actually was a good defender on this team?

Because I watched the games... It was obvious he was completely lost defensively.

The squad as a whole was bad. But Pierre was not just a bad defender was clearly lost in the defensive scheme at large. It is one thing to be in position or rotate correctly and get beat and a totally different issue when you are not in the correct position or rotating properly. Pierre was consistently out of position or not rotating properly on defense.

Are you kidding? He was probably the best defender off the bench with Carl being a close second.

No, not kidding at all. He was completely lost on the defensive end of the court. I have no idea what you saw to lead you to believe he is a quality defender. He was almost always out of position defensively and clearly did not understand the defensive rotations.

Carl and Him were the only two players on the team who ever closed out on a 3pt shooter. Rotations are a symptom of low minutes, but neither were as bad as Jayden/Ashton/Malcolm at rotating. You can likely count on one or two hands the total baskets both conceded this year.

The bold is simply 100% incorrect. That is learned in practice and executed in games. If he was not doing it correctly in the games then he was also most likely not doing it correctly in practice. But no, you do not learn correct rotations during live action. No different than learning an offensive set, that is done in practice, not in the middle of a game

And even the baskets conceded just suggests you do not understand the idea of rotating on defense and what that means. You are referencing getting beat in man to man defense. That is not the issue. The issue is not being in position and causing the defense to essentially collapse, those buckets are not going to be in Pierre's face. It is somebody else getting scored on or a player on the other side of the court getting a wide open shot as a result of Pierre not being where he is supposed to be. This reminds me of the fat dude on the softball field who is not a pro because his high school coach did not play him. Ya right... Coaches do not bench their best players or players who will significantly impact winning. Pierre did not play because he was not able to contribute significantly to winning. We know he was good enough on the offensive end so that leaves either defense or attitude or both...

(03-20-2024 03:48 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 09:39 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:03 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:46 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:26 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Because I watched the games... It was obvious he was completely lost defensively.

The squad as a whole was bad. But Pierre was not just a bad defender was clearly lost in the defensive scheme at large. It is one thing to be in position or rotate correctly and get beat and a totally different issue when you are not in the correct position or rotating properly. Pierre was consistently out of position or not rotating properly on defense.

Are you kidding? He was probably the best defender off the bench with Carl being a close second.

No, not kidding at all. He was completely lost on the defensive end of the court. I have no idea what you saw to lead you to believe he is a quality defender. He was almost always out of position defensively and clearly did not understand the defensive rotations.

Carl and Him were the only two players on the team who ever closed out on a 3pt shooter. Rotations are a symptom of low minutes, but neither were as bad as Jayden/Ashton/Malcolm at rotating. You can likely count on one or two hands the total baskets both conceded this year.

The bold is simply 100% incorrect. That is learned in practice and executed in games. If he was not doing it correctly in the games then he was also most likely not doing it correctly in practice. But no, you do not learn correct rotations during live action. No different than learning an offensive set, that is done in practice, not in the middle of a game

And even the baskets conceded just suggests you do not understand the idea of rotating on defense and what that means. You are referencing getting beat in man to man defense. That is not the issue. The issue is not being in position and causing the defense to essentially collapse, those buckets are not going to be in Pierre's face. It is somebody else getting scored on or a player on the other side of the court getting a wide open shot as a result of Pierre not being where he is supposed to be. This reminds me of the fat dude on the softball field who is not a pro because his high school coach did not play him. Ya right... Coaches do not bench their best players or players who will significantly impact winning. Pierre did not play because he was not able to contribute significantly to winning. We know he was good enough on the offensive end so that leaves either defense or attitude or both...

You really want to die on this hill? Rotations in practice do not prepare you for game speed just like any sport. Its like you didn't even watch the games. On a team of horrible defenders Pierre was easily in the top 50%. Heck the only players on the team capable of playing any defense at all were Malcolm, Tomlin, Pierre, Carl, sometimes Walton, and sparsely Young. Everyone else was flaming garbage on defense.

(03-20-2024 04:32 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 03:48 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 09:39 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:03 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 12:46 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  Are you kidding? He was probably the best defender off the bench with Carl being a close second.

No, not kidding at all. He was completely lost on the defensive end of the court. I have no idea what you saw to lead you to believe he is a quality defender. He was almost always out of position defensively and clearly did not understand the defensive rotations.

Carl and Him were the only two players on the team who ever closed out on a 3pt shooter. Rotations are a symptom of low minutes, but neither were as bad as Jayden/Ashton/Malcolm at rotating. You can likely count on one or two hands the total baskets both conceded this year.

The bold is simply 100% incorrect. That is learned in practice and executed in games. If he was not doing it correctly in the games then he was also most likely not doing it correctly in practice. But no, you do not learn correct rotations during live action. No different than learning an offensive set, that is done in practice, not in the middle of a game

And even the baskets conceded just suggests you do not understand the idea of rotating on defense and what that means. You are referencing getting beat in man to man defense. That is not the issue. The issue is not being in position and causing the defense to essentially collapse, those buckets are not going to be in Pierre's face. It is somebody else getting scored on or a player on the other side of the court getting a wide open shot as a result of Pierre not being where he is supposed to be. This reminds me of the fat dude on the softball field who is not a pro because his high school coach did not play him. Ya right... Coaches do not bench their best players or players who will significantly impact winning. Pierre did not play because he was not able to contribute significantly to winning. We know he was good enough on the offensive end so that leaves either defense or attitude or both...

You really want to die on this hill? Rotations in practice do not prepare you for game speed just like any sport. Its like you didn't even watch the games. On a team of horrible defenders Pierre was easily in the top 50%. Heck the only players on the team capable of playing any defense at all were Malcolm, Tomlin, Pierre, Carl, sometimes Walton, and sparsely Young. Everyone else was flaming garbage on defense.

Tell me you do not understand basketball without telling me you do not understand basketball...

Do you realize you are literally destroying your own argument? You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth...

And let me type this slowly one more time so perhaps you can understand this time... His problem was not being too slow to rotate properly, the entire team struggled with that. His problem was not knowing how to properly rotate or where to properly rotate to. Do you understand the difference? He was the kid at tee ball running to third base instead of first base. It does not matter how fast you run to third base, it is still the wrong place to run...

(03-20-2024 07:44 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 04:32 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 03:48 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 09:39 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:03 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  No, not kidding at all. He was completely lost on the defensive end of the court. I have no idea what you saw to lead you to believe he is a quality defender. He was almost always out of position defensively and clearly did not understand the defensive rotations.

Carl and Him were the only two players on the team who ever closed out on a 3pt shooter. Rotations are a symptom of low minutes, but neither were as bad as Jayden/Ashton/Malcolm at rotating. You can likely count on one or two hands the total baskets both conceded this year.

The bold is simply 100% incorrect. That is learned in practice and executed in games. If he was not doing it correctly in the games then he was also most likely not doing it correctly in practice. But no, you do not learn correct rotations during live action. No different than learning an offensive set, that is done in practice, not in the middle of a game

And even the baskets conceded just suggests you do not understand the idea of rotating on defense and what that means. You are referencing getting beat in man to man defense. That is not the issue. The issue is not being in position and causing the defense to essentially collapse, those buckets are not going to be in Pierre's face. It is somebody else getting scored on or a player on the other side of the court getting a wide open shot as a result of Pierre not being where he is supposed to be. This reminds me of the fat dude on the softball field who is not a pro because his high school coach did not play him. Ya right... Coaches do not bench their best players or players who will significantly impact winning. Pierre did not play because he was not able to contribute significantly to winning. We know he was good enough on the offensive end so that leaves either defense or attitude or both...

You really want to die on this hill? Rotations in practice do not prepare you for game speed just like any sport. Its like you didn't even watch the games. On a team of horrible defenders Pierre was easily in the top 50%. Heck the only players on the team capable of playing any defense at all were Malcolm, Tomlin, Pierre, Carl, sometimes Walton, and sparsely Young. Everyone else was flaming garbage on defense.

Tell me you do not understand basketball without telling me you do not understand basketball...

Do you realize you are literally destroying your own argument? You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth...

And let me type this slowly one more time so perhaps you can understand this time... His problem was not being too slow to rotate properly, the entire team struggled with that. His problem was not knowing how to properly rotate or where to properly rotate to. Do you understand the difference? He was the kid at tee ball running to third base instead of first base. It does not matter how fast you run to third base, it is still the wrong place to run...

Hate to get in the middle of this stimulating discussion but I think the symptoms being discussed are more a matter of Penny attempting to get slow guys to play a trapping defense - and they are always being a step or more late. Combine that with lack of effort & you have the our defense we saw game after game this season. That's why I contend a straight up man D would have been much better for this personnel group.

Hoping Penny signs a crew of quick players who can & will play his trapping D, because I'm guessing he won't change to adapt to the capabilities of the players if they can't play his preferred D.

(03-20-2024 08:28 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:44 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 04:32 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 03:48 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 09:39 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  Carl and Him were the only two players on the team who ever closed out on a 3pt shooter. Rotations are a symptom of low minutes, but neither were as bad as Jayden/Ashton/Malcolm at rotating. You can likely count on one or two hands the total baskets both conceded this year.

The bold is simply 100% incorrect. That is learned in practice and executed in games. If he was not doing it correctly in the games then he was also most likely not doing it correctly in practice. But no, you do not learn correct rotations during live action. No different than learning an offensive set, that is done in practice, not in the middle of a game

And even the baskets conceded just suggests you do not understand the idea of rotating on defense and what that means. You are referencing getting beat in man to man defense. That is not the issue. The issue is not being in position and causing the defense to essentially collapse, those buckets are not going to be in Pierre's face. It is somebody else getting scored on or a player on the other side of the court getting a wide open shot as a result of Pierre not being where he is supposed to be. This reminds me of the fat dude on the softball field who is not a pro because his high school coach did not play him. Ya right... Coaches do not bench their best players or players who will significantly impact winning. Pierre did not play because he was not able to contribute significantly to winning. We know he was good enough on the offensive end so that leaves either defense or attitude or both...

You really want to die on this hill? Rotations in practice do not prepare you for game speed just like any sport. Its like you didn't even watch the games. On a team of horrible defenders Pierre was easily in the top 50%. Heck the only players on the team capable of playing any defense at all were Malcolm, Tomlin, Pierre, Carl, sometimes Walton, and sparsely Young. Everyone else was flaming garbage on defense.

Tell me you do not understand basketball without telling me you do not understand basketball...

Do you realize you are literally destroying your own argument? You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth...

And let me type this slowly one more time so perhaps you can understand this time... His problem was not being too slow to rotate properly, the entire team struggled with that. His problem was not knowing how to properly rotate or where to properly rotate to. Do you understand the difference? He was the kid at tee ball running to third base instead of first base. It does not matter how fast you run to third base, it is still the wrong place to run...

Hate to get in the middle of this stimulating discussion but I think the symptoms being discussed are more a matter of Penny attempting to get slow guys to play a trapping defense - and they are always being a step or more late. Combine that with lack of effort & you have the our defense we saw game after game this season. That's why I contend a straight up man D would have been much better for this personnel group.

Hoping Penny signs a crew of quick players who can & will play his trapping D, because I'm guessing he won't change to adapt to the capabilities of the players if they can't play his preferred D.

Finally common sense. But in regards to defense was Pierre really any worse than slow Ashton or slow Jayden? I’ll always take the quicker more athletic guy that can recover faster. And none of these players come in as freshmen being great defenders. Penny failed with Pierre, Taylor and Cherefant just like he did with Minott

It seems Penny has failed with several players who could have been developed differently. How many starters have we lost to transfers in the last 6 years?

(03-21-2024 08:36 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  It seems Penny has failed with several players who could have been developed differently. How many starters have we lost to transfers in the last 6 years?

Penny's defensive system is too complex to master in just one year. He needs multiyear players to play it. That is why keeping Charenfant should have been a priority for the season. After our season went off the rails in January, I would have played Carl 10 minutes a game, at least.

(03-21-2024 08:05 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 08:28 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:44 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 04:32 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 03:48 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  The bold is simply 100% incorrect. That is learned in practice and executed in games. If he was not doing it correctly in the games then he was also most likely not doing it correctly in practice. But no, you do not learn correct rotations during live action. No different than learning an offensive set, that is done in practice, not in the middle of a game

And even the baskets conceded just suggests you do not understand the idea of rotating on defense and what that means. You are referencing getting beat in man to man defense. That is not the issue. The issue is not being in position and causing the defense to essentially collapse, those buckets are not going to be in Pierre's face. It is somebody else getting scored on or a player on the other side of the court getting a wide open shot as a result of Pierre not being where he is supposed to be. This reminds me of the fat dude on the softball field who is not a pro because his high school coach did not play him. Ya right... Coaches do not bench their best players or players who will significantly impact winning. Pierre did not play because he was not able to contribute significantly to winning. We know he was good enough on the offensive end so that leaves either defense or attitude or both...

You really want to die on this hill? Rotations in practice do not prepare you for game speed just like any sport. Its like you didn't even watch the games. On a team of horrible defenders Pierre was easily in the top 50%. Heck the only players on the team capable of playing any defense at all were Malcolm, Tomlin, Pierre, Carl, sometimes Walton, and sparsely Young. Everyone else was flaming garbage on defense.

Tell me you do not understand basketball without telling me you do not understand basketball...

Do you realize you are literally destroying your own argument? You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth...

And let me type this slowly one more time so perhaps you can understand this time... His problem was not being too slow to rotate properly, the entire team struggled with that. His problem was not knowing how to properly rotate or where to properly rotate to. Do you understand the difference? He was the kid at tee ball running to third base instead of first base. It does not matter how fast you run to third base, it is still the wrong place to run...

Hate to get in the middle of this stimulating discussion but I think the symptoms being discussed are more a matter of Penny attempting to get slow guys to play a trapping defense - and they are always being a step or more late. Combine that with lack of effort & you have the our defense we saw game after game this season. That's why I contend a straight up man D would have been much better for this personnel group.

Hoping Penny signs a crew of quick players who can & will play his trapping D, because I'm guessing he won't change to adapt to the capabilities of the players if they can't play his preferred D.

Finally common sense. But in regards to defense was Pierre really any worse than slow Ashton or slow Jayden? I’ll always take the quicker more athletic guy that can recover faster. And none of these players come in as freshmen being great defenders. Penny failed with Pierre, Taylor and Cherefant just like he did with Minott

Yes, the answer to your question is yes, he was...

It was not a speed issue. It was not being where he was supposed to be. Again, he was running to third base when he should have been running to first base. There is no "recovery" from that, you are simply out of place and that wrecks the entire defense. You are just out.

You can go back and look at my post history, I believed Jayden received way too minutes but Pierre was not the answer defensively. He appeared to be a superior option offensively but defensively he was the worst TEAM defender we had. You all are looking at defense from the prospective of 1v1. That is not Penny's system at all, it is completely reliant on team defense and players being where they are supposed to be and rotating properly. Pierre was as lost on defense as a 13 year old boy unstrapping his first bra...

(03-21-2024 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 08:05 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 08:28 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:44 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 04:32 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  You really want to die on this hill? Rotations in practice do not prepare you for game speed just like any sport. Its like you didn't even watch the games. On a team of horrible defenders Pierre was easily in the top 50%. Heck the only players on the team capable of playing any defense at all were Malcolm, Tomlin, Pierre, Carl, sometimes Walton, and sparsely Young. Everyone else was flaming garbage on defense.

Tell me you do not understand basketball without telling me you do not understand basketball...

Do you realize you are literally destroying your own argument? You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth...

And let me type this slowly one more time so perhaps you can understand this time... His problem was not being too slow to rotate properly, the entire team struggled with that. His problem was not knowing how to properly rotate or where to properly rotate to. Do you understand the difference? He was the kid at tee ball running to third base instead of first base. It does not matter how fast you run to third base, it is still the wrong place to run...

Hate to get in the middle of this stimulating discussion but I think the symptoms being discussed are more a matter of Penny attempting to get slow guys to play a trapping defense - and they are always being a step or more late. Combine that with lack of effort & you have the our defense we saw game after game this season. That's why I contend a straight up man D would have been much better for this personnel group.

Hoping Penny signs a crew of quick players who can & will play his trapping D, because I'm guessing he won't change to adapt to the capabilities of the players if they can't play his preferred D.

Finally common sense. But in regards to defense was Pierre really any worse than slow Ashton or slow Jayden? I’ll always take the quicker more athletic guy that can recover faster. And none of these players come in as freshmen being great defenders. Penny failed with Pierre, Taylor and Cherefant just like he did with Minott

Yes, the answer to your question is yes, he was...

It was not a speed issue. It was not being where he was supposed to be. Again, he was running to third base when he should have been running to first base. There is no "recovery" from that, you are simply out of place and that wrecks the entire defense. You are just out.

You can go back and look at my post history, I believed Jayden received way too minutes but Pierre was not the answer defensively. He appeared to be a superior option offensively but defensively he was the worst TEAM defender we had. You all are looking at defense from the prospective of 1v1. That is not Penny's system at all, it is completely reliant on team defense and players being where they are supposed to be and rotating properly. Pierre was as lost on defense as a 13 year old boy unstrapping his first bra...

LOL. Imagine thinking Jayden/Ashton was better than anyone at anything. Jayden was the worst rotator on the team easily.

(03-21-2024 10:02 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 08:05 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 08:28 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:44 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Tell me you do not understand basketball without telling me you do not understand basketball...

Do you realize you are literally destroying your own argument? You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth...

And let me type this slowly one more time so perhaps you can understand this time... His problem was not being too slow to rotate properly, the entire team struggled with that. His problem was not knowing how to properly rotate or where to properly rotate to. Do you understand the difference? He was the kid at tee ball running to third base instead of first base. It does not matter how fast you run to third base, it is still the wrong place to run...

Hate to get in the middle of this stimulating discussion but I think the symptoms being discussed are more a matter of Penny attempting to get slow guys to play a trapping defense - and they are always being a step or more late. Combine that with lack of effort & you have the our defense we saw game after game this season. That's why I contend a straight up man D would have been much better for this personnel group.

Hoping Penny signs a crew of quick players who can & will play his trapping D, because I'm guessing he won't change to adapt to the capabilities of the players if they can't play his preferred D.

Finally common sense. But in regards to defense was Pierre really any worse than slow Ashton or slow Jayden? I’ll always take the quicker more athletic guy that can recover faster. And none of these players come in as freshmen being great defenders. Penny failed with Pierre, Taylor and Cherefant just like he did with Minott

Yes, the answer to your question is yes, he was...

It was not a speed issue. It was not being where he was supposed to be. Again, he was running to third base when he should have been running to first base. There is no "recovery" from that, you are simply out of place and that wrecks the entire defense. You are just out.

You can go back and look at my post history, I believed Jayden received way too minutes but Pierre was not the answer defensively. He appeared to be a superior option offensively but defensively he was the worst TEAM defender we had. You all are looking at defense from the prospective of 1v1. That is not Penny's system at all, it is completely reliant on team defense and players being where they are supposed to be and rotating properly. Pierre was as lost on defense as a 13 year old boy unstrapping his first bra...

LOL. Imagine thinking Jayden/Ashton was better than anyone at anything. Jayden was the worst rotator on the team easily.

I’ll never understand some posters on here that will defend a player that plays 15-20 minutes over 1 that gets lost on 1 possession and comes out

(03-21-2024 10:02 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 08:05 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 08:28 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 07:44 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Tell me you do not understand basketball without telling me you do not understand basketball...

Do you realize you are literally destroying your own argument? You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth...

And let me type this slowly one more time so perhaps you can understand this time... His problem was not being too slow to rotate properly, the entire team struggled with that. His problem was not knowing how to properly rotate or where to properly rotate to. Do you understand the difference? He was the kid at tee ball running to third base instead of first base. It does not matter how fast you run to third base, it is still the wrong place to run...

Hate to get in the middle of this stimulating discussion but I think the symptoms being discussed are more a matter of Penny attempting to get slow guys to play a trapping defense - and they are always being a step or more late. Combine that with lack of effort & you have the our defense we saw game after game this season. That's why I contend a straight up man D would have been much better for this personnel group.

Hoping Penny signs a crew of quick players who can & will play his trapping D, because I'm guessing he won't change to adapt to the capabilities of the players if they can't play his preferred D.

Finally common sense. But in regards to defense was Pierre really any worse than slow Ashton or slow Jayden? I’ll always take the quicker more athletic guy that can recover faster. And none of these players come in as freshmen being great defenders. Penny failed with Pierre, Taylor and Cherefant just like he did with Minott

Yes, the answer to your question is yes, he was...

It was not a speed issue. It was not being where he was supposed to be. Again, he was running to third base when he should have been running to first base. There is no "recovery" from that, you are simply out of place and that wrecks the entire defense. You are just out.

You can go back and look at my post history, I believed Jayden received way too minutes but Pierre was not the answer defensively. He appeared to be a superior option offensively but defensively he was the worst TEAM defender we had. You all are looking at defense from the prospective of 1v1. That is not Penny's system at all, it is completely reliant on team defense and players being where they are supposed to be and rotating properly. Pierre was as lost on defense as a 13 year old boy unstrapping his first bra...

LOL. Imagine thinking Jayden/Ashton was better than anyone at anything. Jayden was the worst rotator on the team easily.

At least it is abundantly clear now you are simply viewing everything from a very biased viewpoint, that explains a lot...

(03-21-2024 12:02 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 10:02 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 08:05 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 08:28 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Hate to get in the middle of this stimulating discussion but I think the symptoms being discussed are more a matter of Penny attempting to get slow guys to play a trapping defense - and they are always being a step or more late. Combine that with lack of effort & you have the our defense we saw game after game this season. That's why I contend a straight up man D would have been much better for this personnel group.

Hoping Penny signs a crew of quick players who can & will play his trapping D, because I'm guessing he won't change to adapt to the capabilities of the players if they can't play his preferred D.

Finally common sense. But in regards to defense was Pierre really any worse than slow Ashton or slow Jayden? I’ll always take the quicker more athletic guy that can recover faster. And none of these players come in as freshmen being great defenders. Penny failed with Pierre, Taylor and Cherefant just like he did with Minott

Yes, the answer to your question is yes, he was...

It was not a speed issue. It was not being where he was supposed to be. Again, he was running to third base when he should have been running to first base. There is no "recovery" from that, you are simply out of place and that wrecks the entire defense. You are just out.

You can go back and look at my post history, I believed Jayden received way too minutes but Pierre was not the answer defensively. He appeared to be a superior option offensively but defensively he was the worst TEAM defender we had. You all are looking at defense from the prospective of 1v1. That is not Penny's system at all, it is completely reliant on team defense and players being where they are supposed to be and rotating properly. Pierre was as lost on defense as a 13 year old boy unstrapping his first bra...

LOL. Imagine thinking Jayden/Ashton was better than anyone at anything. Jayden was the worst rotator on the team easily.

At least it is abundantly clear now you are simply viewing everything from a very biased viewpoint, that explains a lot...

Caught me. I am super biased against bad players that get minutes over better players. I'll wear it like a badge of honor.

(03-21-2024 10:26 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 10:02 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 08:05 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 08:28 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Hate to get in the middle of this stimulating discussion but I think the symptoms being discussed are more a matter of Penny attempting to get slow guys to play a trapping defense - and they are always being a step or more late. Combine that with lack of effort & you have the our defense we saw game after game this season. That's why I contend a straight up man D would have been much better for this personnel group.

Hoping Penny signs a crew of quick players who can & will play his trapping D, because I'm guessing he won't change to adapt to the capabilities of the players if they can't play his preferred D.

Finally common sense. But in regards to defense was Pierre really any worse than slow Ashton or slow Jayden? I’ll always take the quicker more athletic guy that can recover faster. And none of these players come in as freshmen being great defenders. Penny failed with Pierre, Taylor and Cherefant just like he did with Minott

Yes, the answer to your question is yes, he was...

It was not a speed issue. It was not being where he was supposed to be. Again, he was running to third base when he should have been running to first base. There is no "recovery" from that, you are simply out of place and that wrecks the entire defense. You are just out.

You can go back and look at my post history, I believed Jayden received way too minutes but Pierre was not the answer defensively. He appeared to be a superior option offensively but defensively he was the worst TEAM defender we had. You all are looking at defense from the prospective of 1v1. That is not Penny's system at all, it is completely reliant on team defense and players being where they are supposed to be and rotating properly. Pierre was as lost on defense as a 13 year old boy unstrapping his first bra...

LOL. Imagine thinking Jayden/Ashton was better than anyone at anything. Jayden was the worst rotator on the team easily.

I’ll never understand some posters on here that will defend a player that plays 15-20 minutes over 1 that gets lost on 1 possession and comes out

That would make sense except it is extremely likely he was having the same struggles in practice. If you cannot get it right in practice then you are not going to have a long leash during a game..

I will never understand posters so consumed with personal bias they cannot follow a conversation without inserting their biased narrative instead of reading the actual conversation... I have not defended Jayden or Ashton, I literally stated that I believe Jayden received way too much playing time and that Pierre was clearly a superior offensive player (not sure how that is interpreted as defending him). My point is simply that Pierre was clearly not the difference maker some people are acting like because he was completely lost defensively. Quite frankly, Pierre, Ashton and Jayden were all pretty much in the same group, players that should have only received very limited minutes.

Carl was the player I was most surprised about not receiving more minutes, especially once Mills went down. I thought Carl had the potential to step up and become our best on ball defender.

(03-21-2024 12:19 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 10:26 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 10:02 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 09:44 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 08:05 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  Finally common sense. But in regards to defense was Pierre really any worse than slow Ashton or slow Jayden? I’ll always take the quicker more athletic guy that can recover faster. And none of these players come in as freshmen being great defenders. Penny failed with Pierre, Taylor and Cherefant just like he did with Minott

Yes, the answer to your question is yes, he was...

It was not a speed issue. It was not being where he was supposed to be. Again, he was running to third base when he should have been running to first base. There is no "recovery" from that, you are simply out of place and that wrecks the entire defense. You are just out.

You can go back and look at my post history, I believed Jayden received way too minutes but Pierre was not the answer defensively. He appeared to be a superior option offensively but defensively he was the worst TEAM defender we had. You all are looking at defense from the prospective of 1v1. That is not Penny's system at all, it is completely reliant on team defense and players being where they are supposed to be and rotating properly. Pierre was as lost on defense as a 13 year old boy unstrapping his first bra...

LOL. Imagine thinking Jayden/Ashton was better than anyone at anything. Jayden was the worst rotator on the team easily.

I’ll never understand some posters on here that will defend a player that plays 15-20 minutes over 1 that gets lost on 1 possession and comes out

That would make sense except it is extremely likely he was having the same struggles in practice. If you cannot get it right in practice then you are not going to have a long leash during a game..

I will never understand posters so consumed with personal bias they cannot follow a conversation without inserting their biased narrative instead of reading the actual conversation... I have not defended Jayden or Ashton, I literally stated that I believe Jayden received way too much playing time and that Pierre was clearly a superior offensive player (not sure how that is interpreted as defending him). My point is simply that Pierre was clearly not the difference maker some people are acting like because he was completely lost defensively. Quite frankly, Pierre, Ashton and Jayden were all pretty much in the same group, players that should have only received very limited minutes.

Carl was the player I was most surprised about not receiving more minutes, especially once Mills went down. I thought Carl had the potential to step up and become our best on ball defender.

I saw way more in Pierre than I did the other 3. He made several key plays that won the Temple game.