I could envision the possibility that the SEC decides to go big in hoops in a big way, believing that their football is already strong enough. I do think they would accept Florida State to solidify their dominance in the state of Florida. What if they then add hoops to get to 20 members, taking UNC, Duke and Kansas to join Kentucky as blue blood heaven?

The Big Ten could conceivably match them at 20 by rescuing Stanford and Cal, establishing a dominant west coast presence and easing travel for their legacy schools.

What then? I could imagine a football alliance with 32 teams in four distinct regional divisions, which then act as separate conferences for all other sports. This behemoth would be further united under the banner of a single network, the ACCN, which already exists. Only in this scenario, it encompasses 22 states which together contain about 70% of the US population. One media contact to cover all 32 schools.

The four divisions/Olympic sports conferences are:

Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech, NC State, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, Virginia, USF
Louisville, West Virginia, Pitt, UCF, Memphis, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse
Oklahoma St, TCU, Kansas St, Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Houston, SMU
Utah, Arizona St, Washington St, BYU, Arizona, Oregon St, San Diego St, Colorado

The champ of each of these divisions qualify for a 16 team CFP, in which the SEC and B1G have 4 AQ each, and there are 4 at-large spots to give independent ND a path to the championship.

I hope they do just as you say accept take UNC, Duke, UVA from the ACC along with Kansas. I believe those 3 wouid be more valuable to the SEC bringing new markets and being the new Vanderbilts in football.

That would be enough to reshape the ACC into a conference FSU wouid possibly want to stay in especially if all 3 pay a handsome exit fee.

(03-12-2024 11:24 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I hope they do just as you say accept take UNC, Duke, UVA from the ACC along with Kansas. I believe those 3 wouid be more valuable to the SEC bringing new markets and being the new Vanderbilts in football.

That would be enough to reshape the ACC into a conference FSU wouid possibly want to stay in especially if all 3 pay a handsome exit fee.

That's better than what I proposed, and might even be more agreeable to UNC who would get to keep both of their biggest rivals (Duke and UVa). My assumption was/is that FSU would insist on being one of the teams that go to the SEC.

I don't know how many other ACC schools would like to see the state of North Carolina (and Carolina itself) have less influence over their future conference lives. The 8 team division you propose does seem pretty attractive to me, and might to those schools as well. And I suspect the northern wing of the league wouldn't mind getting the band back together either, though they might want to trade UCF for Miami.

The bigger question is how would ESPN and the SEC feel about all this?

(03-12-2024 12:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-12-2024 11:24 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I hope they do just as you say accept take UNC, Duke, UVA from the ACC along with Kansas. I believe those 3 wouid be more valuable to the SEC bringing new markets and being the new Vanderbilts in football.

That would be enough to reshape the ACC into a conference FSU wouid possibly want to stay in especially if all 3 pay a handsome exit fee.

That's better than what I proposed, and might even be more agreeable to UNC who would get to keep both of their biggest rivals (Duke and UVa). My assumption was/is that FSU would insist of being one of the teams that go to the SEC.

I don't know how many other ACC schools would like to see the state of North Carolina (and Carolina itself) have less influence over their future conference lives. The 8 team division you propose does seem pretty attractive to me, and might to those schools as well. And I suspect the northern wing of the league wouldn't mind getting the band back together either, though they might want to trade UCF for Miami.

The bigger question is how would ESPN and the SEC feel about all this?

I’d hope they would rather do that than to surrender any properties to the B1G Fox. Suppose the ACC gets $250m each from the departing schools divide that by 14 and instead of splitting the ACCN 18 ways, it wouid be 15 ways. I’m down with the plan.

At this point you have a heart to heart talk with Wake and offer them a ND deal. I think you could make a good case to ESPN that the losses of UVA, Duke, UNC and a partial Wake would be a good thing for the football ratings as well as conference stability, Imagine more UM vs ND, FSU vs ND, UM vs Clemson, FSU vs VT, etc. so therefore we should be able to keep the 4 other shares.

Next season the ACC will make around $702m, but ND, Stan, Cal, SMU and Wake would have odd shares. Let's first figure out the ACCN shares: As is we would get approximately $15m a year at the current rate, so $15x18=$270m, divide it 15 ways and you get $18m per member.

Wake, SMU, ND would at least get $18m in media payout from the ACC, Wake's Indy football package is probably worth 1/10 of what ND is getting from NBC, so I estimate they get about $7.5m starting out with a $2m escalator. After the ACC HQ of $24m and the 2 partial members and SMU are paid off we have a remaining balance of $624 (702-54-24).

If split evenly 12 ways = $52m per member. However Cal and Stan takes a bit less with the difference going to the S.I.I.

If everybody in the ACC is getting $52m from the media deal starting out on top of alimony from the departing schools and whatever could be made from the SII, that get's us in the neighborhood of the B1G and SEC.

I'd go with a 7 game conference schedule (2+5+5) because of all the new OOC games. ESPN has some annual game demands as promised by the ACC in their negotiations to keep the 4 full shares as well to appease Wake for voluntarily relegating themselves:

ND vs UM, Pitt, Stan, rotate the others
Wake vs VT, NCSU, FSU (damn you Wake), rotate the others

UNC vs NCSU, UVA vs VT, Duke vs Wake become annual OOC games

(03-12-2024 06:24 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  At this point you have a heart to heart talk with Wake and offer them a ND deal. I think you could make a good case to ESPN that the losses of UVA, Duke, UNC and a partial Wake would be a good thing for the football ratings as well as conference stability, Imagine more UM vs ND, FSU vs ND, UM vs Clemson, FSU vs VT, etc. so therefore we should be able to keep the 4 other shares.

Next season the ACC will make around $702m, but ND, Stan, Cal, SMU and Wake would have odd shares. Let's first figure out the ACCN shares: As is we would get approximately $15m a year at the current rate, so $15x18=$270m, divide it 15 ways and you get $18m per member.

Wake, SMU, ND would at least get $18m in media payout from the ACC, Wake's Indy football package is probably worth 1/10 of what ND is getting from NBC, so I estimate they get about $7.5m starting out with a $2m escalator. After the ACC HQ of $24m and the 2 partial members and SMU are paid off we have a remaining balance of $624 (702-54-24).

If split evenly 12 ways = $52m per member. However Cal and Stan takes a bit less with the difference going to the S.I.I.

If everybody in the ACC is getting $52m from the media deal starting out on top of alimony from the departing schools and whatever could be made from the SII, that get's us in the neighborhood of the B1G and SEC.

I'd go with a 7 game conference schedule (2+5+5) because of all the new OOC games. ESPN has some annual game demands as promised by the ACC in their negotiations to keep the 4 full shares as well to appease Wake for voluntarily relegating themselves:

ND vs UM, Pitt, Stan, rotate the others
Wake vs VT, NCSU, FSU (damn you Wake), rotate the others

UNC vs NCSU, UVA vs VT, Duke vs Wake become annual OOC games

Very well thought out, and it would probably work, too.
Now, get these schools to agree to it...

Moving Duke, UVA and UNC to the B1G would actually probably be equally attractive from a basketball standpoint and enhances Maryland's place in the B1G with some natural and traditional rivals. A 21 member B1G would look thusly:

USC, UCLA, Oregon, UW, Neb, Iowa, Minni

OSU, UM, MSU, Wisc, Illi, NW, Indi

PSU, RU, Purdue, UMd, Duke, UVA, UNC

(03-12-2024 10:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  I could envision the possibility that the SEC decides to go big in hoops in a big way, believing that their football is already strong enough. I do think they would accept Florida State to solidify their dominance in the state of Florida. What if they then add hoops to get to 20 members, taking UNC, Duke and Kansas to join Kentucky as blue blood heaven?

The Big Ten could conceivably match them at 20 by rescuing Stanford and Cal, establishing a dominant west coast presence and easing travel for their legacy schools.

What then? I could imagine a football alliance with 32 teams in four distinct regional divisions, which then act as separate conferences for all other sports. This behemoth would be further united under the banner of a single network, the ACCN, which already exists. Only in this scenario, it encompasses 22 states which together contain about 70% of the US population. One media contact to cover all 32 schools.

The four divisions/Olympic sports conferences are:

Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech, NC State, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, Virginia, USF
Louisville, West Virginia, Pitt, UCF, Memphis, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse
Oklahoma St, TCU, Kansas St, Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Houston, SMU
Utah, Arizona St, Washington St, BYU, Arizona, Oregon St, San Diego St, Colorado

The champ of each of these divisions qualify for a 16 team CFP, in which the SEC and B1G have 4 AQ each, and there are 4 at-large spots to give independent ND a path to the championship.

This would be my dream scenario for Louisville. We would get to play the teams we love to hate the most on a regular basis.

(03-13-2024 07:46 AM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  

(03-12-2024 10:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  I could envision the possibility that the SEC decides to go big in hoops in a big way, believing that their football is already strong enough. I do think they would accept Florida State to solidify their dominance in the state of Florida. What if they then add hoops to get to 20 members, taking UNC, Duke and Kansas to join Kentucky as blue blood heaven?

The Big Ten could conceivably match them at 20 by rescuing Stanford and Cal, establishing a dominant west coast presence and easing travel for their legacy schools.

What then? I could imagine a football alliance with 32 teams in four distinct regional divisions, which then act as separate conferences for all other sports. This behemoth would be further united under the banner of a single network, the ACCN, which already exists. Only in this scenario, it encompasses 22 states which together contain about 70% of the US population. One media contact to cover all 32 schools.

The four divisions/Olympic sports conferences are:

Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech, NC State, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, Virginia, USF
Louisville, West Virginia, Pitt, UCF, Memphis, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse
Oklahoma St, TCU, Kansas St, Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Houston, SMU
Utah, Arizona St, Washington St, BYU, Arizona, Oregon St, San Diego St, Colorado

The champ of each of these divisions qualify for a 16 team CFP, in which the SEC and B1G have 4 AQ each, and there are 4 at-large spots to give independent ND a path to the championship.

This would be my dream scenario for Louisville. We would get to play the teams we love to hate the most on a regular basis.

Big East 2.0

(03-14-2024 10:38 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(03-13-2024 07:46 AM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  

(03-12-2024 10:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  I could envision the possibility that the SEC decides to go big in hoops in a big way, believing that their football is already strong enough. I do think they would accept Florida State to solidify their dominance in the state of Florida. What if they then add hoops to get to 20 members, taking UNC, Duke and Kansas to join Kentucky as blue blood heaven?

The Big Ten could conceivably match them at 20 by rescuing Stanford and Cal, establishing a dominant west coast presence and easing travel for their legacy schools.

What then? I could imagine a football alliance with 32 teams in four distinct regional divisions, which then act as separate conferences for all other sports. This behemoth would be further united under the banner of a single network, the ACCN, which already exists. Only in this scenario, it encompasses 22 states which together contain about 70% of the US population. One media contact to cover all 32 schools.

The four divisions/Olympic sports conferences are:

Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech, NC State, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, Virginia, USF
Louisville, West Virginia, Pitt, UCF, Memphis, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse
Oklahoma St, TCU, Kansas St, Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Houston, SMU
Utah, Arizona St, Washington St, BYU, Arizona, Oregon St, San Diego St, Colorado

The champ of each of these divisions qualify for a 16 team CFP, in which the SEC and B1G have 4 AQ each, and there are 4 at-large spots to give independent ND a path to the championship.

This would be my dream scenario for Louisville. We would get to play the teams we love to hate the most on a regular basis.

Big East 2.0

If VT ends up in "Big East 2.0" I'll still watch that instead of the so-called P2.
Even if VT joins one of the P2, I'll only watch VT games.

(03-15-2024 07:05 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-14-2024 10:38 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(03-13-2024 07:46 AM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  

(03-12-2024 10:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  I could envision the possibility that the SEC decides to go big in hoops in a big way, believing that their football is already strong enough. I do think they would accept Florida State to solidify their dominance in the state of Florida. What if they then add hoops to get to 20 members, taking UNC, Duke and Kansas to join Kentucky as blue blood heaven?

The Big Ten could conceivably match them at 20 by rescuing Stanford and Cal, establishing a dominant west coast presence and easing travel for their legacy schools.

What then? I could imagine a football alliance with 32 teams in four distinct regional divisions, which then act as separate conferences for all other sports. This behemoth would be further united under the banner of a single network, the ACCN, which already exists. Only in this scenario, it encompasses 22 states which together contain about 70% of the US population. One media contact to cover all 32 schools.

The four divisions/Olympic sports conferences are:

Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech, NC State, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, Virginia, USF
Louisville, West Virginia, Pitt, UCF, Memphis, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse
Oklahoma St, TCU, Kansas St, Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State, Houston, SMU
Utah, Arizona St, Washington St, BYU, Arizona, Oregon St, San Diego St, Colorado

The champ of each of these divisions qualify for a 16 team CFP, in which the SEC and B1G have 4 AQ each, and there are 4 at-large spots to give independent ND a path to the championship.

This would be my dream scenario for Louisville. We would get to play the teams we love to hate the most on a regular basis.

Big East 2.0

If VT ends up in "Big East 2.0" I'll still watch that instead of the so-called P2.
Even if VT joins one of the P2, I'll only watch VT games.

Ditto for me/FSU.

The future is here! We are in that world currently P2-M2-G5

New CFP Payouts starting in 2026 Per Yahoo
SEC: 23.5M per school
BIG: 20.9M per School
ACC: 13M per school
ND: 13M
Big12: 12.1M per school
G5: 1.8M per school

B10/SEC is getting 29% each
ACC is getting 17.7%
B12 is getting 14.3%
G5 is getting 9%
ND is getting 1%

Please note that the Big Ten announced a seven-year, $8 billion media deal, allowing the three networks to show their games through 2030.

So any official call up for the BIG will be around 2029 as they will want to (however as FSU tries to sue there way out we can connect the dots already on the backdoor talks happening)

On December 10, 2020, ESPN announced that it had acquired the top SEC rights under a 10-year deal beginning in 2024, valued at $3 billion over the length of the contract. The games are slated to air on ABC, thus centralizing the entirety of the SEC's media rights with The Walt Disney Company. So SEC expansion will not happen officially until 2033. So that means ACC/XII teams have a decision to make, join the BIG earlier or wait for the SEC invite a few years later.

Essentially expansion has slowed until 2030ish except FSU lawsuit.

(03-15-2024 08:05 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  The future is here! We are in that world currently P2-M2-G5

New CFP Payouts starting in 2026 Per Yahoo
SEC: 23.5M per school
BIG: 20.9M per School
ACC: 13M per school
ND: 13M
Big12: 12.1M per school
G5: 1.8M per school

B10/SEC is getting 29% each
ACC is getting 17.7%
B12 is getting 14.3%
G5 is getting 9%
ND is getting 1%

Yep. It's official now.

Conferences may be locked in to their media-ordained castes, but individual schools have more room to move. If there's a line your alma mater needs to get on the right side of, take a lesson from the SMU Mustangs. Do it now.

Frankly I have some mixed feelings about posting in this thread. But there are some fundamental things which I feel will determine the nature and direction of the P2.

The Big 10 stands at 18 and their last 4 additions held a valuation 600 million less than those of Texas and Oklahoma. The schools left to select from have a pecking order in valuation (their abilities to impact the indirectly the economies around them). This data point is very informative for realignment because it is a direct indicator of the support of a school within their own market reach.

We all understand what a blue blood is and the very nature of the strength of their brands are easy to grasp.

We understand revenue generation and attendance as indicators of a school's ability to help other future conference mates more money. But the ability to drive business outside of the school's athletic department itself is what builds synergy with conference mates.

Notre Dame's last posted cumulative value was .928 billion.
Kansas has one of .527 billion
FSU at .390 billion.
Clemson at .380 billion.

And everyone else is below that with various aspects standing out in their desirability.

Ever wonder how the AAU minded Big 10 could have rumors constantly floating rumors about taking Notre Dame, Clemson and FSU? Well there it is. Even if the Big 10 added Notre Dame they will still trail the SEC by well over 2 billion in their valuation total.

Every wonder why I speak often about Kansas? Kansas has synergy with Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas and Texas A&M and could easily build it with Arkansas.

If the Big 10 takes Notre Dame to keep its advantage all the SEC needs to do is to take Kansas, and either of FSU or Clemson. North Carolina and Virginia or Virginia Tech are market additions and those count too in that the two states are only 2 million shy of equaling holding the value of Florida as a state.

Well, if the SEC does pick up North Carolina and Virginia, with N.C. State and Virginia Tech ESPN keeps total control of the ad markets for 20 million people. So I don't dismiss this out of hand, and rather think it could have legs.

Well, if those 4 are taken to assuage ESPN's interests, and the SEC's concerns are then assuaged with the additions of Clemson, Florida State, Kansas, and perhaps Georgia Tech to maintain total control in Atlanta for the SEC and ESPN. Then I think you will be getting a foreshadowing of the kind of thinking which is going into these decisions.

The Big 10 wants a bigger slice of Florida than just Miami, that only increases ESPN's and the SEC's desire for 1 of those two Florida schools and FSU delivers a higher % of the total Florida viewers, and Miami delivers an area where the SEC reach has been weak.

The SEC already locks down the rest. It would see Kansas as a favor to ESPN, and a nod to a solid division being built in a new SEC West. The SEC basketball is improving but add some brand names to Kentucky and voila they really increase the value of their Winter time sports offering. Clemson and FSU lock down the football branding and the Southeastern emphasis.

Meanwhile up North they will be eyeing Notre Dame and whatever they can do to clinch that relationship. Stanford makes sense in that context. That leaves them 4 to play with and Miami is AAU is in a nice DMA and is easily accessed via air travel. Where do they go from there? They could make a play for Georgia Tech which could leave the SEC looking West again. Or the Big 10 could go for Arizona to shore up a Western 6 and increase market share.

In other words, ESPN/SEC desires and FOX/Big 10 desires will determine the coming size of the Super 2. And the size of the Super 2 will directly impact the union of the rest in a third conference.

The size also will impact the selections made by the Big 10 and SEC.

If the move is to 20 Miami and Notre Dame or Stanford and Notre Dame could end it for them.

Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina and Virginia would do the same for the SEC.

In that world the discussion in this thread is relevant.

But if both move to 24 (I think 22 would be a bit awkward for a return to divisions for the sake of travel), then it radically alters everything you've discussed here.

I think you should look at who you would take and how you would organize it if the SEC and Big 10 stop at 20, and do a contingent plan for if the stop at 24.

(03-15-2024 07:05 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If VT ends up in "Big East 2.0" I'll still watch that instead of the so-called P2.
Even if VT joins one of the P2, I'll only watch VT games.

I do that now.
If Louisville ain't playing, I ain't watching.

Certainly not going to waste my time watching boring Big Ten games or SEC games where the team with the best record always seems to win.

(03-16-2024 06:34 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 07:05 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If VT ends up in "Big East 2.0" I'll still watch that instead of the so-called P2.
Even if VT joins one of the P2, I'll only watch VT games.

I do that now.
If Louisville ain't playing, I ain't watching.

Certainly not going to waste my time watching boring Big Ten games or SEC games where the team with the best record always seems to win.

Im that way too, although occasionally, I may watch some other intriguing ACC game, that involves Pitt or BC or Louisville, Miami and Duke. Sometimes. Outside of Miami, I may watch those other teams to see if its somehow possible for them and the team they are playing both lose.

(03-16-2024 03:13 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 06:34 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 07:05 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If VT ends up in "Big East 2.0" I'll still watch that instead of the so-called P2.
Even if VT joins one of the P2, I'll only watch VT games.

I do that now.
If Louisville ain't playing, I ain't watching.

Certainly not going to waste my time watching boring Big Ten games or SEC games where the team with the best record always seems to win.

Im that way too, although occasionally, I may watch some other intriguing ACC game, that involves Pitt or BC or Louisville, Miami and Duke. Sometimes. Outside of Miami, I may watch those other teams to see if its somehow possible for them and the team they are playing both lose.

Maybe it's my sickness, but I watch as many ACC football games as I can (and in the NCAA Tournament I watch all the ACC teams if I can, too). I rarely almost never watch an SEC or B1G or XII game not involving an ACC opponent.

(03-16-2024 04:10 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 03:13 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 06:34 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 07:05 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If VT ends up in "Big East 2.0" I'll still watch that instead of the so-called P2.
Even if VT joins one of the P2, I'll only watch VT games.

I do that now.
If Louisville ain't playing, I ain't watching.

Certainly not going to waste my time watching boring Big Ten games or SEC games where the team with the best record always seems to win.

Im that way too, although occasionally, I may watch some other intriguing ACC game, that involves Pitt or BC or Louisville, Miami and Duke. Sometimes. Outside of Miami, I may watch those other teams to see if its somehow possible for them and the team they are playing both lose.

Maybe it's my sickness, but I watch as many ACC football games as I can (and in the NCAA Tournament I watch all the ACC teams if I can, too). I rarely watch an SEC or B1G or XII game not involving an ACC opponent.

Same, except I don't usually watch basketball outside of FSU, have not watched the NCAAT or ACCT in a while.