Total win-win. UMass gets playoff access and a reasonable schedule. MAC gets its first Flagship University and something "new" to try to generate some excitement.

(03-05-2024 12:01 PM)NittanyFlame Wrote:  Total win-win. UMass gets playoff access and a reasonable schedule. MAC gets its first Flagship University and something "new" to try to generate some excitement.

Technically the second flagship - Buffalo is co-flagship with Stony Brook.

But another flagship with very respectable education, and one that's recently been kicking up athletic investments.

(03-05-2024 12:06 PM)e-parade Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 12:01 PM)NittanyFlame Wrote:  Total win-win. UMass gets playoff access and a reasonable schedule. MAC gets its first Flagship University and something "new" to try to generate some excitement.

Technically the second flagship - Buffalo is co-flagship with Stony Brook.

But another flagship with very respectable education, and one that's recently been kicking up athletic investments.

Buffalo is actually a great school: AAU and large endowment.

(03-05-2024 12:25 PM)ZooMass84 Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 12:06 PM)e-parade Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 12:01 PM)NittanyFlame Wrote:  Total win-win. UMass gets playoff access and a reasonable schedule. MAC gets its first Flagship University and something "new" to try to generate some excitement.

Technically the second flagship - Buffalo is co-flagship with Stony Brook.

But another flagship with very respectable education, and one that's recently been kicking up athletic investments.

Buffalo is actually a great school: AAU and large endowment.

I know - I wasn't saying otherwise. Buffalo is a really good school. I was just pointing out that we weren't technically the "first" flagship for the MAC. The rest of what I said was about us, not Buffalo.

(03-05-2024 12:06 PM)e-parade Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 12:01 PM)NittanyFlame Wrote:  Total win-win. UMass gets playoff access and a reasonable schedule. MAC gets its first Flagship University and something "new" to try to generate some excitement.

Technically the second flagship - Buffalo is co-flagship with Stony Brook.

But another flagship with very respectable education, and one that's recently been kicking up athletic investments.

Good catch. Temporarily forgot about NY’s unique SUNY-XXXXX campus up.

Lot of Stony Brook talks in the other MAC thread, but it’s closed.. so adding my 2 cents here.
- Ferry ride… it’s 100% true. We always take the ferry when driving north to Boston or Vermont etc. or when those northeast schools drive to Stony Brook for road games. It’s saves over 2 hours. It’s practical.
- It’s true that there’s practically no pulse for college football in Long Island. Little bit better for college basketball though.
- We kept our football coach for far longer than he deserved to be…. 18 years!! He had success when we were in Big South. Liberty fans will know when Liberty and Stony Brook were co-champions of Big South in 2009, 2010 and 2012. But that was Coach Priore’s ceiling. After joining CAA football, within couple of years it was apparent that he was out of his depth and level of competition. And covid only delayed his firing. Hopefully the new coach will turn things around.
- So athletics wise I see Stony Brook as a perennial mid-table team in MAC football and potential contender in MAC basketball with right coach. Our athletic budget is already more than half the MAC teams. With right coaching hires there’s a lot higher potential in basketball than football.
- Stony Brook is not a NYC team rather a Long Island team. We are an hour from NYC. Nassau and Suffolk counties together have over 3m population. None of those matter as I previously said college sports don’t matter much here much.
- We are #58 in US News ranking, an AAU institute and co-flagship of NY state along with Buffalo. Research is our bread and butter.
- We were in CAA football for a while but we just joined CAA all sports. So I don’t know if there’s any mutual interest between Stony Brook and MAC. But I do think that to the presidents of MAC schools, we would be a lot more valuable than fans here. Mainly for academics, flagship and location. Secondarily for athletic prowess.. err potential.

^ good insight into SBU, appreciate it. I guess I assumed there would be more interest in football on Long Island.

According to our very own David St, Stony Brook is in the NYC DMA—for whatever that’s worth.


* why did they change from Patriots to Seawolves?

Yes, thanks, ibby10! I have been a proponent of Stony Brook FCS>FBS>MAC but recognized its academics/research focus is and always will be first. Pardon any inference, but I viewed Stony Brook as having an athletics program because universities have athletics programs. But I had no direct knowledge of what it's like "being there."

I can hardly see Stony Brook paying $5 million for FCS>FBS unless there is strong(er) determination to elevate athletics. There would have to be some massive income from athletics to assauge that financial requirement; I can see quite a pushback without the cash coming in that does not affect its mission.

I got some historical info I found interesting. Baseball went to the College World Series in 2012. MBB made it to the NCAAT in 2016. Women's lacrosse has been to the national championship series at least eight times, and in 2018 they were #1 for a few weeks.

But football, as you say, not so much. Both NY governors Cuomo nixed money to expand LaValle (football) Stadium, Mario in 1994 when professors thought money would be taken from academics, and Andrew in 2015 when money was shifted from earmarks for academic programs that got cancelled. Still, LaValle Stadium is only 12,300 capacity but looking at pix ... it's a really nice-looking 12,300. I made mention in another post that nobody cares, what with ota/streaming being the big deal it is.

(I got some of this from university history and some from Wiki.)

Anyway, thanks again for the local info.

I’d personally like to see a move to the MAC by Delaware, Middle Tennessee St, and Western Kentucky to follow Massachusetts. The MAC stigma of regionalization dies more with each addition.

(03-06-2024 10:12 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I’d personally like to see a move to the MAC by Delaware, Middle Tennessee St, and Western Kentucky to follow Massachusetts. The MAC stigma of regionalization dies more with each addition.

My initial reaction was that I'd hate to see those particular moves.


But then I remembered the GOR and exit fees. And thought about splitting those FAU units by just 8. And getting another OOC game. . .


I'm still against it. But, you know. Silver linings would be there. Are we sure the MAC doesn't want to recruit in south Florida instead of Kentucky and Tennessee? They could really ditch the regionalization stigma and get to 14 with one specific move here.

(03-06-2024 10:24 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:12 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I’d personally like to see a move to the MAC by Delaware, Middle Tennessee St, and Western Kentucky to follow Massachusetts. The MAC stigma of regionalization dies more with each addition.

My initial reaction was that I'd hate to see those particular moves.


But then I remembered the GOR and exit fees. And thought about splitting those FAU units by just 8. And getting another OOC game. . .


I'm still against it. But, you know. Silver linings would be there. Are we sure the MAC doesn't want to recruit in south Florida instead of Kentucky and Tennessee? They could really ditch the regionalization stigma and get to 14 with one specific move here.

The regional nature of the MAC is not a bug. It's a feature.

Obviously, the MAC will seek to expand its footprint by looking outside Michigan and Ohio for additional schools. That's where the additional television value is. But this tight-knit footprint in some of America's largest states has served the conference well by helping to contain travel costs.

As for recruiting Florida: The MAC could do worse than to add Florida International. But I'd be stunned if that's the next move.

(03-06-2024 12:30 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:24 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 10:12 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I’d personally like to see a move to the MAC by Delaware, Middle Tennessee St, and Western Kentucky to follow Massachusetts. The MAC stigma of regionalization dies more with each addition.

My initial reaction was that I'd hate to see those particular moves.


But then I remembered the GOR and exit fees. And thought about splitting those FAU units by just 8. And getting another OOC game. . .


I'm still against it. But, you know. Silver linings would be there. Are we sure the MAC doesn't want to recruit in south Florida instead of Kentucky and Tennessee? They could really ditch the regionalization stigma and get to 14 with one specific move here.

The regional nature of the MAC is not a bug. It's a feature.

Obviously, the MAC will seek to expand its footprint by looking outside Michigan and Ohio for additional schools. That's where the additional television value is. But this tight-knit footprint in some of America's largest states has served the conference well by helping to contain travel costs.

As for recruiting Florida: The MAC could do worse than to add Florida International. But I'd be stunned if that's the next move.

Yeah, that wasn't my phrase, I was just responding to the other post.

FIU would be a win-win-win.

But I agree it's unlikely.

(03-06-2024 12:30 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The regional nature of the MAC is not a bug. It's a feature.

Understood that folks in OH/MI may love having 9 schools in two states, but for some of us outsiders, that seems like a bit much.

I've asked before and I never seem to get a response - have any of the OH schools ever flirted with breaking away from the pack and going out on their own? Something like an Ohio or a Toledo going to the AAC?

(03-06-2024 02:42 PM)NittanyFlame Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 12:30 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The regional nature of the MAC is not a bug. It's a feature.

Understood that folks in OH/MI may love having 9 schools in two states, but for some of us outsiders, that seems like a bit much.

I've asked before and I never seem to get a response - have any of the OH schools ever flirted with breaking away from the pack and going out on their own? Something like an Ohio or a Toledo going to the AAC?

They are probably better off financially just dropping football than moving.

(03-06-2024 02:42 PM)NittanyFlame Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 12:30 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The regional nature of the MAC is not a bug. It's a feature.

Understood that folks in OH/MI may love having 9 schools in two states, but for some of us outsiders, that seems like a bit much.

I've asked before and I never seem to get a response - have any of the OH schools ever flirted with breaking away from the pack and going out on their own? Something like an Ohio or a Toledo going to the AAC?

Supposedly C-USA 20 years ago pumped the tires on Toledo, but Toledo stayed put. Around the time Marshall moved.

Nothing since. MAC schools just aren't of interest to upper G5s.

(03-06-2024 02:42 PM)NittanyFlame Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 12:30 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The regional nature of the MAC is not a bug. It's a feature.

Understood that folks in OH/MI may love having 9 schools in two states, but for some of us outsiders, that seems like a bit much.

I've asked before and I never seem to get a response - have any of the OH schools ever flirted with breaking away from the pack and going out on their own? Something like an Ohio or a Toledo going to the AAC?

2012 was big for Ohio. They made it to the sweet 16 and won the Independence Bowl. Athletic director (who was Wichita State's AD) had the program on the move budget wise and with facilities. From what I know he was talking around with other conferences at that time. Very pro athletics president was in office who was an alum and a student athlete from the 60's. He did make a public statement about the MAC looking at UMass and Stony Brook as additions (may become true).

2017 that president left and in 2019 the AD left to become commissioner of the Southern Conference. Stadium expansion into a horseshoe and renovation completed in 2018. Then COVID hit and interim president. New AD added a restaurant to the basketball arena and plans to expand it with facilities. But athletics has taken a backseat in the 2020s to social issues on campus and nationally.

Everthing built at Ohio and the MAC in general is paid for by private donations. The culture and desire is not there to go deep into athletic debt like an AAC school.

Further if you look at where things are heading with the MAC having a higher rated recruiting class than the MWC and the AAC destined to be picked apart by the ACC/XII the MAC is the best place to be in the G5. Best cost model in the G5.

(03-06-2024 02:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  MAC schools just aren't of interest to upper G5s.

The feeling is more or less mutual.

A line I've seen a lot this week from Conference USA schools who don't Western Kentucky to leave is: Don't do it. The MAC is a dead end. It's the Hotel California. You can check in, but you can never leave.

The reason the MAC holds together is mutual disinterest in other G5 conferences. The caliber of football in the American Athletic is arguably* a bit better more often than not, but for a current member of the MAC to play in that conference, it would mean flying to just about every away game in every sport. And when it comes to goosing home football attendance and interest, most of the schools that would be paying visits -- Memphis, East Carolina, Tulsa, you name it -- just aren't going to move the needle enough to justify all that added expense while also ending conference rivalries that date back 75 years or more.

I respect the football programs and universities in the AAC, but it just wouldn't make sense for Bowling Green, and I suspect most (if not all) MAC ADs, presidents, and fans would look at it more or less the same way.

In contrast, no one in Conference USA really wants to be there except for maybe the n00bs, and maybe not even them. The point of Conference USA membership seems to be to earn an invitation to the Sun Belt, where members are in position to earn an invitation to the American Athletic**, where members are in position to earn an invitation to the Big 12 or someplace else.

When the MAC looks up aspirationally, we see the Big Ten, not another G5 conference. And since that door probably isn't going to open, we are fairly content where we are.

I imagine the Moutain West has long looked at it the same way, although the emergence of the Pac 2 may soon change things.

---
* I mean, the American Athletic isn't *that* much better.
** I realize some Sun Belt schools profess to be content right where they are, but is this true for all of them? If the American Athletic needs to reload, I've got to think the Sun Belt is the first place they will look.

(03-06-2024 02:42 PM)NittanyFlame Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 12:30 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  The regional nature of the MAC is not a bug. It's a feature.

Understood that folks in OH/MI may love having 9 schools in two states, but for some of us outsiders, that seems like a bit much.

I've asked before and I never seem to get a response - have any of the OH schools ever flirted with breaking away from the pack and going out on their own? Something like an Ohio or a Toledo going to the AAC?

Toledo has expressed interest at some point in the past. But not as serious as Northern Illinois.

(03-06-2024 04:46 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(03-06-2024 02:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  MAC schools just aren't of interest to upper G5s.

The feeling is more or less mutual.

A line I've seen a lot this week from Conference USA schools who don't Western Kentucky to leave is: Don't do it. The MAC is a dead end. It's the Hotel California. You can check in, but you can never leave.

The reason the MAC holds together is this mutual disinterest in other G5 conferences. The caliber of football in the American Athletic is arguably* a bit better more often than not, but for a current member of the MAC to play in that conference, it would mean flying to just about every away game in every sport. And when it comes to goosing home football attendance and interest, most of schools that would be paying visits -- Memphis, East Carolina, Tulsa, you name it -- just aren't going to move the needle enough to justify all that added expense while also ending conference rivalries that date back 75 years or more.

I respect the football programs and universities in the AAC, but it just wouldn't make sense for Bowling Green, and I suspect most (if not all) MAC ADs, presidents, and fans would look at it more or less the same way.

In contrast, no one in Conference USA really wants to be there except for maybe the noobs, and maybe not even them. The point of Conference USA membership seems to be to earn an invitation to the Sun Belt, where members are in position to earn an invitation to the American Athletic**, where members are in position to earn an invitation to the Big 12 or someplace else.

When the MAC looks up inspirationally, we see the Big Ten, not another G5 conference. And since that door probably isn't going to open, we are fairly content where we are.

I imagine the Moutain West has long looked at it the same way, although the emergence of the Pac 2 may soon change things.

---
* I mean, the American Athletic isn't *that* much better.
** I realize some Sun Belt schools profess to be content right where they are, but is this true for all of them? If the American Athletic needs to reload, I've got to think the Sun Belt is the first place they will look.

The CUSA oldies would have taken Sun Belt offers, but they all preferred AAC or MWC or MAC. 5 of them had been with the Sun Belt schools at some point in time and 4 of those left voluntarily.

1960's were the golden era for the MAC. Ohio and BGSU were ranked in top 5 in basketball at one point early in the season. Ohio beat four Ten teams in one season back then including top ten ranked Indiana and Ohio State in the same week. There is a reason the Big Ten stopped playing away games against the MAC in basketball. One difference was the basketball schedule non-conference was brutal back then. Ohio played Cincinnati, Ohio State, Loyola-Chi, Louisville and 4 to 5 Big Ten teams a year and won a its fair share. Coach Snyder played anyone anywhere back then. MAC schools want a return home game which most power conference schools refuse to do. No more West Virginia, Xavier, Dayton, Cincinnati or Ohio State on the schedule. That means very heavy Horizon league and Sun Belt teams which agree to return games. [/quote]