(02-28-2024 02:09 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  1. Villanova was willing to upgrade its football fifteen years ago .,..

No it wasn't.

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(02-29-2024 10:56 AM)mainejeff Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 10:37 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  Northeast schools can't get the players.

Look at UMass and UConn's FB struggle as an example.

It's all about the money. If they can get these deep pocketed Northeast alums to part with some of their dusty money....the players will come. The NIL might be good for Northeast football eventually.

Cuse is starting to do that.

Realistically in higher level football the NE can only support 7-8 teams

PSU
CUSE
PITT
BC
RUTGERS
WVU
UMD

maybe UCONN or 1 other team

(02-29-2024 01:39 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 10:56 AM)mainejeff Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 10:37 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  Northeast schools can't get the players.

Look at UMass and UConn's FB struggle as an example.

It's all about the money. If they can get these deep pocketed Northeast alums to part with some of their dusty money....the players will come. The NIL might be good for Northeast football eventually.

Cuse is starting to do that.

Realistically in higher level football the NE can only support 7-8 teams

PSU
CUSE
PITT
BC
RUTGERS
WVU
UMD

maybe UCONN or 1 other team

And I believe that there is room for another Northeast/Mid-Atlantic FBS conference below that one.....think of it as the "Eastern MAC"....

Would consist of larger state schools currently in the CAA,,,,,

Maine
UNH
URI
Albany
Stony Brook
Towson
W&M
NC A&T

Temple could be better supported if they ever got an on campus stadium or in some adjacent neighborhood and was able to build loyal and engaged alumni. Such a scenario would probably take 50 years to develop but it's possible. They proved to have a loyal following in basketball, at least in the past.

Also, NC A&T? Seriously? Not only are they not Northeastern but they're an HBCU and as someone who attended one, many are only engaged as fans when they play other HBCU's. Because sports are generally at such a low level (I realize they're in a better conference than the SWAC and MEAC but still...), many don't become engaged for that reason as well.

(02-29-2024 04:49 PM)C2__ Wrote:  Also, NC A&T? Seriously? Not only are they not Northeastern but they're an HBCU and as someone who attended one, many are only engaged as fans when they play other HBCU's. Because sports are generally at such a low level (I realize they're in a better conference than the SWAC and MEAC but still...), many don't become engaged for that reason as well.

Yet the CAA still took them.

They also took Hampton and Elon among others. It's as if they wanted to sink their conference profile.

No HBCU is going to be able to compete, at least very often, above the SWAC and MEAC and in D-II and below.

(02-29-2024 04:44 PM)C2__ Wrote:  Temple could be better supported if they ever got an on campus stadium or in some adjacent neighborhood and was able to build loyal and engaged alumni. Such a scenario would probably take 50 years to develop but it's possible. They proved to have a loyal following in basketball, at least in the past.

Temple can def improve their following, but there are limitations given the Philly sports scene and culture.

I wish Temple all the luck in the world, but Philly sports fans have other priorities: 1-4) pro leagues, 5) college BB, 6) not CFB, 7) but if CFB, PSU.

For a contrast, across the state, in Pbgh the order would be something like 1) NFL, 2) NHL (this is probably #1 for millenials/zoomers), 3) MLB, 4) CFB split about 50/50 Pitt/PSU, 5) CBB, 6) not the NBA.

(02-29-2024 01:31 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(02-28-2024 02:09 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  1. Villanova was willing to upgrade its football fifteen years ago .,..

No it wasn't.

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West Virginia and Pitt pulled the rug out from under Villanova before the Board of Trustees could vote on it, but Villanova was prepared to invest in upgrading its football in 2011. As a Villanova fan, I was in the minority who hated that prospect and was glad to see it sputter -- but I can assure you that Villanova was ready to make the jump.

(03-01-2024 10:36 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 01:31 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(02-28-2024 02:09 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  1. Villanova was willing to upgrade its football fifteen years ago .,..

No it wasn't.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

West Virginia and Pitt pulled the rug out from under Villanova before the Board of Trustees could vote on it, but Villanova was prepared to invest in upgrading its football in 2011. As a Villanova fan, I was in the minority who hated that prospect and was glad to see it sputter -- but I can assure you that Villanova was ready to make the jump.

But your profile says Alabama fan?

(02-29-2024 07:09 PM)mainejeff Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 04:49 PM)C2__ Wrote:  Also, NC A&T? Seriously? Not only are they not Northeastern but they're an HBCU and as someone who attended one, many are only engaged as fans when they play other HBCU's. Because sports are generally at such a low level (I realize they're in a better conference than the SWAC and MEAC but still...), many don't become engaged for that reason as well.

Yet the CAA still took them.

Wait... I thought CAA teams would be fleeing the conference because of the weakness of the recent additions? Now NC A&T is a FBS candidate? Not doing a great job of keeping your story straight, are you?

(03-01-2024 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 10:36 AM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 01:31 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(02-28-2024 02:09 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  1. Villanova was willing to upgrade its football fifteen years ago .,..

No it wasn't.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

West Virginia and Pitt pulled the rug out from under Villanova before the Board of Trustees could vote on it, but Villanova was prepared to invest in upgrading its football in 2011. As a Villanova fan, I was in the minority who hated that prospect and was glad to see it sputter -- but I can assure you that Villanova was ready to make the jump.

But your profile says Alabama fan?

I'm both:

I've got degrees from both Alabama and Villanova, which are my mother and father's alma maters respectively.

I went to exactly one Villanova football game in the four years I went there, and exactly one Alabama basketball game in three years on campus. I don't think I missed a single Nova basketball game or Bama football game if I was in town for them.

(03-01-2024 05:24 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 07:09 PM)mainejeff Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 04:49 PM)C2__ Wrote:  Also, NC A&T? Seriously? Not only are they not Northeastern but they're an HBCU and as someone who attended one, many are only engaged as fans when they play other HBCU's. Because sports are generally at such a low level (I realize they're in a better conference than the SWAC and MEAC but still...), many don't become engaged for that reason as well.

Yet the CAA still took them.

Wait... I thought CAA teams would be fleeing the conference because of the weakness of the recent additions? Now NC A&T is a FBS candidate? Not doing a great job of keeping your story straight, are you?

That is a totally different scenario that I presented. Try and keep up.

(02-29-2024 01:31 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(02-28-2024 02:09 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  1. Villanova was willing to upgrade its football fifteen years ago .,..

No it wasn't.

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They asked for admittance to the Big East, then a P6 conference.

Now that doesn't mean they were actually going to upgrade anything!

(03-01-2024 08:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 01:31 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(02-28-2024 02:09 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  1. Villanova was willing to upgrade its football fifteen years ago .,..

No it wasn't.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

They asked for admittance to the Big East, then a P6 conference.

Now that doesn't mean they were actually going to upgrade anything!

Villanova was approached by the Big East in an effort to solidify the conference. Villanova did its diligence and was prepared to upgrade its program and play its home games at the MLS stadium in Philadelphia. The invitation never came, but that doesn't mean that Villanova wasn't prepared to do whatever it could to save the basketball league.

I guess a negative response is rooted in whether or not "upgrading" to a small (by world standards) soccer stadium is really considered upgrading.

(03-01-2024 08:45 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  Villanova was approached by the Big East in an effort to solidify the conference. Villanova did its diligence and was prepared to upgrade its program and play its home games at the MLS stadium in Philadelphia. The invitation never came, but that doesn't mean that Villanova wasn't prepared to do whatever it could to save the basketball league.

At one point in the early 2000s, the four I-AA schools (UConn, Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's) had a window for an open invitation without a vote. Only UConn took the offer.

(02-28-2024 01:54 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  Assuming the ACC falls apart...

Is there a reason that UConn, Syracuse, Boston College, Pitt, and Villanova couldn't all exist as independents who play a double-round robin schedule every year?

That would amount to eight games for each school, tantamount to a conference schedule, and each school could negotiate its own TV rights or they could bargain for them collectively.

To me that seems like a better answer for everyone than the ACC trying to backfill a hybrid north/South conference that has proven to be a dud.

Bowl contracts would need to be worked out. There likely wouldn't be a payout from the playoffs. But their basketball woes could be put to rest as the ACC defectors could come back to the Big East after a failed football-first experiment.

I know you are proposing building a northeast football conference out of ACC leftovers. There just aren't enough competitive, FBS. schools available in the Northeast to put together a viable conference. You need at least 7 schools for FCS and I think 8 for FBS. None of the old BE schools want Army, Navy, Buffalo or UMass in a conference with them, or want FCS call-ups as fill. Frankly UDel was the only FCS left capable of making the jump up. So you need BC, Cuse, Pitt, UConn, WV, Temple and still 2 more.
Rather than start a new conference, the ACC leftovers would keep the conference name and backfill. That allows for keeping some bowl tie-ins and having continuity in access to NCAA bids and tournament $. The whole thing is dependent on what happens to UNC/NCSU and UVa/VT. Both NC schools have to get P2 invites, or they will be forced to stay together in the ACC. If UVa gets a BIG invite, VT may get a SEC invite, but it won't go the other way around.
ACC leftovers: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WF
Add AAC/BE: UConn, Temple, USF
Possible call-ups: James Madison, Old Dominion, East Carolina, Charolette, GaSt - none have AAC/BE roots, but they bring high population states and fill big holes in conference member locations.
Other possible ACC leftovers: Miami (Probably a BIG or bust situation in the next round or realignment), Duke (see Miami), Louisville (B12 or bust), UNC, NCSU (both depend on who gets invited where and the NC legislation that both stay together), possibly VT.

Actually a conference of BC, UConn, Cuse, Pitt, Tempe, VT, WF, USF would be about as close as you can get to what you are looking for.

(03-01-2024 08:45 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 08:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 01:31 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(02-28-2024 02:09 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  1. Villanova was willing to upgrade its football fifteen years ago .,..

No it wasn't.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

They asked for admittance to the Big East, then a P6 conference.

Now that doesn't mean they were actually going to upgrade anything!

Villanova was approached by the Big East in an effort to solidify the conference. Villanova did its diligence and was prepared to upgrade its program and play its home games at the MLS stadium in Philadelphia. The invitation never came, but that doesn't mean that Villanova wasn't prepared to do whatever it could to save the basketball league.

Villanova's plan to upgrade was to play all conference games as away games until the little MLS soccer pitch stadium in West Chester was expanded. But Villanova was demanding that the other BE schools split the gates with it as if it was the home team. So every year half the BE would host Villanova, but turn the ticket revenue over to it. That for a school who's fan base travels so poorly it barely brings a couple of thousand to UPenn when they play at Franklin Field.