(02-27-2024 01:26 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:25 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Cost for WKU to leave CUSA and join the MAC is about 4-5 million (estimate).

Two years worth of conference distributions (the departure fee), GOR, entrance fee.

The only revenue area where the MAC may bring in More revenue would be the Media Deal.

Even if it were $500,000 more a year ---that's 8-10 years to break even.

Yes--this is a Simplified analysis. But where is the Big revenue incentive to switch leagues?

Exposure on ESPN? You are switching October weeknights for November weeknights.

That is dirt cheap. If WKU wants out, they have boosters that will pay it. That is like moving up which you are basically doing now. You are getting out of FCS again.

(02-27-2024 08:45 AM)R40 Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:26 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:25 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Cost for WKU to leave CUSA and join the MAC is about 4-5 million (estimate).

Two years worth of conference distributions (the departure fee), GOR, entrance fee.

The only revenue area where the MAC may bring in More revenue would be the Media Deal.

Even if it were $500,000 more a year ---that's 8-10 years to break even.

Yes--this is a Simplified analysis. But where is the Big revenue incentive to switch leagues?

Exposure on ESPN? You are switching October weeknights for November weeknights.

That is dirt cheap. If WKU wants out, they have boosters that will pay it. That is like moving up which you are basically doing now. You are getting out of FCS again.

We do have people that will pay to move up. The MAC isn't moving up, its moving on and throwing in the towel on moving up. I am 50/50 on it. Fine if it happens, but won't be upset if it doesn't. Many in the fanbase are gung-ho for it, many others not so much. The administration better be doing their homework and not pissing off the money people.

(02-27-2024 09:33 AM)freshtop Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 08:45 AM)R40 Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:26 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:25 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Cost for WKU to leave CUSA and join the MAC is about 4-5 million (estimate).

Two years worth of conference distributions (the departure fee), GOR, entrance fee.

The only revenue area where the MAC may bring in More revenue would be the Media Deal.

Even if it were $500,000 more a year ---that's 8-10 years to break even.

Yes--this is a Simplified analysis. But where is the Big revenue incentive to switch leagues?

Exposure on ESPN? You are switching October weeknights for November weeknights.

That is dirt cheap. If WKU wants out, they have boosters that will pay it. That is like moving up which you are basically doing now. You are getting out of FCS again.

We do have people that will pay to move up. The MAC isn't moving up, its moving on and throwing in the towel on moving up. I am 50/50 on it. Fine if it happens, but won't be upset if it doesn't. Many in the fanbase are gung-ho for it, many others not so much. The administration better be doing their homework and not pissing off the money people.

If the school wants to move, it will be paid. Presidents and ADs are paid to talk rich guys out of their money.

(02-27-2024 08:45 AM)R40 Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:26 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:25 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Cost for WKU to leave CUSA and join the MAC is about 4-5 million (estimate).

Two years worth of conference distributions (the departure fee), GOR, entrance fee.

The only revenue area where the MAC may bring in More revenue would be the Media Deal.

Even if it were $500,000 more a year ---that's 8-10 years to break even.

Yes--this is a Simplified analysis. But where is the Big revenue incentive to switch leagues?

Exposure on ESPN? You are switching October weeknights for November weeknights.

That is dirt cheap. If WKU wants out, they have boosters that will pay it. That is like moving up which you are basically doing now. You are getting out of FCS again.

If you are for it--it HAS to be a bad move. Case closed.

(02-27-2024 12:07 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 08:45 AM)R40 Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:26 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:25 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Cost for WKU to leave CUSA and join the MAC is about 4-5 million (estimate).

Two years worth of conference distributions (the departure fee), GOR, entrance fee.

The only revenue area where the MAC may bring in More revenue would be the Media Deal.

Even if it were $500,000 more a year ---that's 8-10 years to break even.

Yes--this is a Simplified analysis. But where is the Big revenue incentive to switch leagues?

Exposure on ESPN? You are switching October weeknights for November weeknights.

That is dirt cheap. If WKU wants out, they have boosters that will pay it. That is like moving up which you are basically doing now. You are getting out of FCS again.

If you are for it--it HAS to be a bad move. Case closed.

The ignore button is a beautiful thing

I'd like EKU in FBS. If that means WKU needs to go to the MAC so CUSA picks them up, then that's what I want. I also strongly dislike WKU so I would like them to miss out on the money Conference USA gives them from FAU/Liberty.

(02-27-2024 12:09 PM)BlueRaiderDave Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 12:07 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 08:45 AM)R40 Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:26 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:25 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Cost for WKU to leave CUSA and join the MAC is about 4-5 million (estimate).

Two years worth of conference distributions (the departure fee), GOR, entrance fee.

The only revenue area where the MAC may bring in More revenue would be the Media Deal.

Even if it were $500,000 more a year ---that's 8-10 years to break even.

Yes--this is a Simplified analysis. But where is the Big revenue incentive to switch leagues?

Exposure on ESPN? You are switching October weeknights for November weeknights.

That is dirt cheap. If WKU wants out, they have boosters that will pay it. That is like moving up which you are basically doing now. You are getting out of FCS again.

If you are for it--it HAS to be a bad move. Case closed.

The ignore button is a beautiful thing

I'm not for it or against it. I am just observing. If you are Western Kentucky, who do you want to play for the next 10 years -- Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, Sam Houston and Kennesaw or Ohio, Bowling Green, Toledo, Miami OH and Northern Illinois. I can see why MTSU did not want to go to the MAC. But it is more attractive for Western Kentucky. If you can make more money, you take it and you have much better travel.

(02-27-2024 12:46 PM)MarshallHerdFanz Wrote:  I'd like EKU in FBS. If that means WKU needs to go to the MAC so CUSA picks them up, then that's what I want. I also strongly dislike WKU so I would like them to miss out on the money Conference USA gives them from FAU/Liberty.

LOL ... of all the justifications I've seen for "WKU to the MAC" this is my favorite on so many levels. And I mean that, too.

Even if you don't dislike WKU (and honestly, I don't) you have to at least admit the reasoning here is sound.

(02-27-2024 01:12 PM)R40 Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 12:09 PM)BlueRaiderDave Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 12:07 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 08:45 AM)R40 Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:26 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

That is dirt cheap. If WKU wants out, they have boosters that will pay it. That is like moving up which you are basically doing now. You are getting out of FCS again.

If you are for it--it HAS to be a bad move. Case closed.

The ignore button is a beautiful thing

I'm not for it or against it. I am just observing. If you are Western Kentucky, who do you want to play for the next 10 years -- Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, Sam Houston and Kennesaw or Ohio, Bowling Green, Toledo, Miami OH and Northern Illinois. I can see why MTSU did not want to go to the MAC. But it is more attractive for Western Kentucky. If you can make more money, you take it and you have much better travel.

The money factor is key. Can the MAC show a contingent media deal significantly better than what CUSA just signed? And is it so much better that it would recoup the cost of leaving CUSA (GoR and forfeited revenues that are incoming)?

As far as who I would rather play, there are benefits to both lists. If I had to place money on which list would stay the same and which would change, I think the MAC membership will stay constant. There are no guarantees that Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, SHSU, and Kennesaw will still be in CUSA in 10 years. That is the biggest fear I have for CUSA. Not that the current membership is bad, that the future membership might be awful.

(02-27-2024 02:00 PM)freshtop Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:12 PM)R40 Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 12:09 PM)BlueRaiderDave Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 12:07 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 08:45 AM)R40 Wrote:  That is dirt cheap. If WKU wants out, they have boosters that will pay it. That is like moving up which you are basically doing now. You are getting out of FCS again.

If you are for it--it HAS to be a bad move. Case closed.

The ignore button is a beautiful thing

I'm not for it or against it. I am just observing. If you are Western Kentucky, who do you want to play for the next 10 years -- Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, Sam Houston and Kennesaw or Ohio, Bowling Green, Toledo, Miami OH and Northern Illinois. I can see why MTSU did not want to go to the MAC. But it is more attractive for Western Kentucky. If you can make more money, you take it and you have much better travel.

The money factor is key. Can the MAC show a contingent media deal significantly better than what CUSA just signed? And is it so much better that it would recoup the cost of leaving CUSA (GoR and forfeited revenues that are incoming)?

As far as who I would rather play, there are benefits to both lists. If I had to place money on which list would stay the same and which would change, I think the MAC membership will stay constant. There are no guarantees that Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, SHSU, and Kennesaw will still be in CUSA in 10 years. That is the biggest fear I have for CUSA. Not that the current membership is bad, that the future membership might be awful.

The MAC has not negotiated a deal in a long time so they are going to get a pretty good bump most likely. The exit fees are not a big deal because the boosters will pay that. It isn't going to cost the school anything.

And yes, CUSA is a revolving door and Western Kentucky is at the head of the class for the prep school. You are just incubating programs that pass you by. So might as well join the conference you fit in long term rather than continually scrambling for replacements and playing in a fairly terrible league. The league has outlived its usefulness for WKU. They used it for what it is good for just like all the up and comers.

(02-27-2024 02:00 PM)freshtop Wrote:  If I had to place money on which list would stay the same and which would change, I think the MAC membership will stay constant. There are no guarantees that Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, SHSU, and Kennesaw will still be in CUSA in 10 years. That is the biggest fear I have for CUSA. Not that the current membership is bad, that the future membership might be awful.

I'm not disagreeing at all on your main point -- there are no guarantees.

But when I look at the evolving college football landscape, I just don't see the same number of slots opening up above us to allow for upward mobility that we saw a few years ago.

I don't even think the eventual 2PAC/MWC realignment will cause much more than a tiny ripple farther east.

I guess it's always possible conferences could move from 12/14 teams to 16 teams or even more. But if that happens, everyone is at risk -- CUSA, the MAC, even the Mighty Sun Belt.

For now, as "stability" goes, the MAC and CUSA are about as equivalent as it gets. Both are at an odd number and seeking one more team. No one is likely on the way out of either.

(02-27-2024 02:20 PM)whupemall Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 02:00 PM)freshtop Wrote:  If I had to place money on which list would stay the same and which would change, I think the MAC membership will stay constant. There are no guarantees that Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, SHSU, and Kennesaw will still be in CUSA in 10 years. That is the biggest fear I have for CUSA. Not that the current membership is bad, that the future membership might be awful.

I'm not disagreeing at all on your main point -- there are no guarantees.

But when I look at the evolving college football landscape, I just don't see the same number of slots opening up above us to allow for upward mobility that we saw a few years ago.

I don't even think the eventual 2PAC/MWC realignment will cause much more than a tiny ripple farther east.

I guess it's always possible conferences could move from 12/14 teams to 16 teams or even more. But if that happens, everyone is at risk -- CUSA, the MAC, even the Mighty Sun Belt.

For now, as "stability" goes, the MAC and CUSA are about as equivalent as it gets. Both are at an odd number and seeking one more team. No one is likely on the way out of either.

There is no equivalency between the MAC and CUSA. The MAC is rock solid. They have a TV deal and they are going to improve on it. If you are CUSA, you have no assurances you will get the same TV deal going forward or any TV deal at all. You have no assurances you are not going to be kicked back down to FCS by the major conferences.

You know exactly what you are getting with the MAC. It has been around for a long time and weathered good times and bad.

(02-27-2024 02:00 PM)freshtop Wrote:  The money factor is key. Can the MAC show a contingent media deal significantly better than what CUSA just signed? And is it so much better that it would recoup the cost of leaving CUSA (GoR and forfeited revenues that are incoming)?

As far as who I would rather play, there are benefits to both lists. If I had to place money on which list would stay the same and which would change, I think the MAC membership will stay constant. There are no guarantees that Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, SHSU, and Kennesaw will still be in CUSA in 10 years. That is the biggest fear I have for CUSA. Not that the current membership is bad, that the future membership might be awful.

I fail to see any positive aspect of joining the MAC other than convenience of distance.

I agree the MAC is most likely to stay the same. Based on what the MAC is now, I would count that as a negative.

There is no guarantee that any team not from the BIG or SEC will be in the same conference in the next 10 years. That could be considered a positive.

True enough, CUSA’s current membership isn’t bad. What if, hear me out, future membership actually improves it? That can go either way. No one really knows.

Distance is only the determining factor in a conference historically.

The difference between the MAC and CUSA is that it could lose its TV deal and would not be impacted that much. They can play for attendance. If CUSA loses its TV deal, it goes in 12 different directions. This is a TV conference only and completely dependent on its TV deal.

(02-27-2024 01:55 PM)whupemall Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 12:46 PM)MarshallHerdFanz Wrote:  I'd like EKU in FBS. If that means WKU needs to go to the MAC so CUSA picks them up, then that's what I want. I also strongly dislike WKU so I would like them to miss out on the money Conference USA gives them from FAU/Liberty.

LOL ... of all the justifications I've seen for "WKU to the MAC" this is my favorite on so many levels. And I mean that, too.

Even if you don't dislike WKU (and honestly, I don't) you have to at least admit the reasoning here is sound.

Judy’d be parading around Richmond in that Jeep within 24 hours of Western’s departure.

Would be funny to see EKU finally get the call, BECAUSE of WKU.

How much does the fact that WKU settling in the MAC opens the door for EKU to launch themselves “onto WKU’s level” play into the Hilltoppers’ decision, if at all?

(02-27-2024 02:54 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 02:00 PM)freshtop Wrote:  The money factor is key. Can the MAC show a contingent media deal significantly better than what CUSA just signed? And is it so much better that it would recoup the cost of leaving CUSA (GoR and forfeited revenues that are incoming)?

As far as who I would rather play, there are benefits to both lists. If I had to place money on which list would stay the same and which would change, I think the MAC membership will stay constant. There are no guarantees that Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, SHSU, and Kennesaw will still be in CUSA in 10 years. That is the biggest fear I have for CUSA. Not that the current membership is bad, that the future membership might be awful.

I fail to see any positive aspect of joining the MAC other than convenience of distance.

I agree the MAC is most likely to stay the same. Based on what the MAC is now, I would count that as a negative.

There is no guarantee that any team not from the BIG or SEC will be in the same conference in the next 10 years. That could be considered a positive.

True enough, CUSA’s current membership isn’t bad. What if, hear me out, future membership actually improves it? That can go either way. No one really knows.

WKU - What Now? I can answer this question….. Play for a CUSA basketball title, spring sport titles, football title, other fall sport titles. You know, pretty much the usual thing. Same as the rest of us.

(02-27-2024 03:06 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 02:54 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 02:00 PM)freshtop Wrote:  The money factor is key. Can the MAC show a contingent media deal significantly better than what CUSA just signed? And is it so much better that it would recoup the cost of leaving CUSA (GoR and forfeited revenues that are incoming)?

As far as who I would rather play, there are benefits to both lists. If I had to place money on which list would stay the same and which would change, I think the MAC membership will stay constant. There are no guarantees that Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, SHSU, and Kennesaw will still be in CUSA in 10 years. That is the biggest fear I have for CUSA. Not that the current membership is bad, that the future membership might be awful.

I fail to see any positive aspect of joining the MAC other than convenience of distance.

I agree the MAC is most likely to stay the same. Based on what the MAC is now, I would count that as a negative.

There is no guarantee that any team not from the BIG or SEC will be in the same conference in the next 10 years. That could be considered a positive.

True enough, CUSA’s current membership isn’t bad. What if, hear me out, future membership actually improves it? That can go either way. No one really knows.

WKU - What Now? I can answer this question….. Play for a CUSA basketball title, spring sport titles, football title, other fall sport titles. You know, pretty much the usual thing. Same as the rest of us.

^^^This

(02-27-2024 03:03 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 01:55 PM)whupemall Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 12:46 PM)MarshallHerdFanz Wrote:  I'd like EKU in FBS. If that means WKU needs to go to the MAC so CUSA picks them up, then that's what I want. I also strongly dislike WKU so I would like them to miss out on the money Conference USA gives them from FAU/Liberty.

LOL ... of all the justifications I've seen for "WKU to the MAC" this is my favorite on so many levels. And I mean that, too.

Even if you don't dislike WKU (and honestly, I don't) you have to at least admit the reasoning here is sound.

Judy’d be parading around Richmond in that Jeep within 24 hours of Western’s departure.

Would be funny to see EKU finally get the call, BECAUSE of WKU.

How much does the fact that WKU settling in the MAC opens the door for EKU to launch themselves “onto WKU’s level” play into the Hilltoppers’ decision, if at all?

What a laugh that would be. EKU in CUSA would be in a better position than WKU in the MAC.

(02-27-2024 03:06 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 02:54 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 02:00 PM)freshtop Wrote:  The money factor is key. Can the MAC show a contingent media deal significantly better than what CUSA just signed? And is it so much better that it would recoup the cost of leaving CUSA (GoR and forfeited revenues that are incoming)?

As far as who I would rather play, there are benefits to both lists. If I had to place money on which list would stay the same and which would change, I think the MAC membership will stay constant. There are no guarantees that Liberty, UTEP, Tarleton, SHSU, and Kennesaw will still be in CUSA in 10 years. That is the biggest fear I have for CUSA. Not that the current membership is bad, that the future membership might be awful.

I fail to see any positive aspect of joining the MAC other than convenience of distance.

I agree the MAC is most likely to stay the same. Based on what the MAC is now, I would count that as a negative.

There is no guarantee that any team not from the BIG or SEC will be in the same conference in the next 10 years. That could be considered a positive.

True enough, CUSA’s current membership isn’t bad. What if, hear me out, future membership actually improves it? That can go either way. No one really knows.

WKU - What Now? I can answer this question….. Play for a CUSA basketball title, spring sport titles, football title, other fall sport titles. You know, pretty much the usual thing. Same as the rest of us.

If the MAC’s next media deal is superior to what our group just signed, then a move for WKU definitely has some benefit. Stability matters now, even if some claim it to be stagnation. Some may claim the MAC is “dying on the vine”, others would argue that they’re incredibly well positioned to continue as a conference for decades, no matter what happens in the college sports landscape.

Where do WKU alumni live/work post-undergrad? What urban areas do Hilltoppers flock to? Are they midwestern cities (Indy, Cincinnati, Cleveland)? Or are they southern cities? That likely plays a role in the preferences of each fan.

It’s a sizable downgrade in basketball and a lateral move in football FOR NOW. But if WKU feels like they’re going to continue to be passed up by new CUSA adds in the long run, and that they’ve elevated themselves as far as they can, then settling into a conference like the MAC probably has some allure.

Either way, for CUSA, WKU isn’t irreplaceable. Hello, Colonels. They’re a good fit, but it’s not the competitive blow that losing a couple others would be, namely Liberty.

(02-27-2024 03:22 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  Stability matters now, even if some claim it to be stagnation.

Stability?

The MAC is literally the most recent conference to announce a change in line-up! It was just yesterday! Did you not hear about it?