(02-25-2024 02:08 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-23-2024 08:54 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-23-2024 05:08 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-22-2024 02:52 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-22-2024 07:01 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  You know, I'm starting to believe that you actually think this is true... so that's why I'm not going to make fun of you.

She would be like a smaller, slower version of Jimmer Fredette. He was great in college and really good in the D league, but he couldn't get playing time in the NBA b/c he couldn't get his shot off and couldn't play D against the elite talent there. Clark in particular would just get man handled, quite literally. Fredette was slow but he at least had some meat on him at 6'2" 195 lbs. He wasn't getting bullied so much as people could just run circles around him. Clark is 6'0" 150 lbs, they'd run circles around her and bully her at the same time.

Beside the fact that she plays with a pea sized ball in the women's game.

Give her a regulation NBA sized ball and 90% of those logo shots bounce out.

You would question her shooting prowess? She could fill it up as well as anyone other than Steph if she'd been using a men's ball her entire life and every shot was wide open, her issue would be getting any space at all to get off a shot and playing something resembling competent defense. But, sure, make her switch balls when she's 22 and there would be a huge adjustment period, just as there would be for Steph or any other NBA star who had to switch to women's ball.

It's not reasonable to think that she could thrive in the NBA, but I think that a better question is "could she start for a top 10 NCAAT seed?". I don't know the answer to that, but I'd say probably b/c it's just so hard to find a truly elite scorer in the college game. Much like Fredette when he was in college, she'd be tough to keep off the court.

Maybe you've heard, but there is a controversy going on now days about men, who are at best average on men's teams, switching over to women's sports and dominating.

Caitlyn Clark is a fabulous women's player, but she would not last five minutes in a men's game.

It's not a knock on women, it's about physiology. Men are bigger, stronger and faster.

Along the same lines, I think women are better gymnasts and figure skaters because they are smaller, lighter and more flexible than men.

She definitely wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes 30 years ago b/c she'd have been killed. Today? The game is not as physical today as it used to be, to compare it to other sports I'd say that it's more like baseball as a "skill" sport and less like football as a gladiatorial combat sport. Her physical frame of 6', 150 lbs is too small for the NBA certainly, but is it so small that she couldn't bulk up a bit if she had the quickness, say to something closer to 170 instead of 150? Steph is only 6'2" 185 lbs. No, her issue in the NBA would be that Joel Embiid and other 7 footers would also be quicker than her, those guys are probably the best true athletes in any sport in the entire world. But in a marginal NCAAT seed, say someone like St Johns right now, you don't think that Pitino could find a way to get her some shots at critical moments? Like I said, perhaps she's not a starter, perhaps she is, but I think that in the right system she could fill that Jimmer Fredette type role. He was also small and slow, but he was able to get off his shot against mostly also small/slow competition.

Could an average D1 mens player play against the women and physically dominate? Of course, but that wouldn't make him a better long range shooter. Clark has one of the very few things that a college coach needs to recruit rather than teach. I mean, Iowa's women's coach could grab one of the starters from the men's team and put him by the hoop and tell him to dunk all game long, and it would be like Wilt in the 50's. But that wouldn't turn the guy the women's game version of Steph Curry. And it's a lot easier to figure out strategies to guard a physically dominating center by just throwing bodies at him and wearing him down, or hack a Shaq, etc etc, then it is to figure out how to guard someone from half court and never let her get the ball.

(02-25-2024 02:18 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-25-2024 02:08 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-23-2024 08:54 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-23-2024 05:08 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-22-2024 02:52 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  She would be like a smaller, slower version of Jimmer Fredette. He was great in college and really good in the D league, but he couldn't get playing time in the NBA b/c he couldn't get his shot off and couldn't play D against the elite talent there. Clark in particular would just get man handled, quite literally. Fredette was slow but he at least had some meat on him at 6'2" 195 lbs. He wasn't getting bullied so much as people could just run circles around him. Clark is 6'0" 150 lbs, they'd run circles around her and bully her at the same time.

Beside the fact that she plays with a pea sized ball in the women's game.

Give her a regulation NBA sized ball and 90% of those logo shots bounce out.

You would question her shooting prowess? She could fill it up as well as anyone other than Steph if she'd been using a men's ball her entire life and every shot was wide open, her issue would be getting any space at all to get off a shot and playing something resembling competent defense. But, sure, make her switch balls when she's 22 and there would be a huge adjustment period, just as there would be for Steph or any other NBA star who had to switch to women's ball.

It's not reasonable to think that she could thrive in the NBA, but I think that a better question is "could she start for a top 10 NCAAT seed?". I don't know the answer to that, but I'd say probably b/c it's just so hard to find a truly elite scorer in the college game. Much like Fredette when he was in college, she'd be tough to keep off the court.

Maybe you've heard, but there is a controversy going on now days about men, who are at best average on men's teams, switching over to women's sports and dominating.

Caitlyn Clark is a fabulous women's player, but she would not last five minutes in a men's game.

It's not a knock on women, it's about physiology. Men are bigger, stronger and faster.

Along the same lines, I think women are better gymnasts and figure skaters because they are smaller, lighter and more flexible than men.

She definitely wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes 30 years ago b/c she'd have been killed. Today? The game is not as physical today as it used to be, to compare it to other sports I'd say that it's more like baseball as a "skill" sport and less like football as a gladiatorial combat sport. Her physical frame of 6', 150 lbs is too small for the NBA certainly, but is it so small that she couldn't bulk up a bit if she had the quickness, say to something closer to 170 instead of 150? Steph is only 6'2" 185 lbs. No, her issue in the NBA would be that Joel Embiid and other 7 footers would also be quicker than her, those guys are probably the best true athletes in any sport in the entire world. But in a marginal NCAAT seed, say someone like St Johns right now, you don't think that Pitino could find a way to get her some shots at critical moments? Like I said, perhaps she's not a starter, perhaps she is, but I think that in the right system she could fill that Jimmer Fredette type role. He was also small and slow, but he was able to get off his shot against mostly also small/slow competition.

Could an average D1 mens player play against the women and physically dominate? Of course, but that wouldn't make him a better long range shooter. Clark has one of the very few things that a college coach needs to recruit rather than teach. I mean, Iowa's women's coach could grab one of the starters from the men's team and put him by the hoop and tell him to dunk all game long, and it would be like Wilt in the 50's. But that wouldn't turn the guy the women's game version of Steph Curry. And it's a lot easier to figure out strategies to guard a physically dominating center by just throwing bodies at him and wearing him down, or hack a Shaq, etc etc, then it is to figure out how to guard someone from half court and never let her get the ball.

You also don't seem to consider Caitlyn on the defensive end of a men's game. Who is she going to guard?

They'd have to play zone because any D1 player is going to go around, over past and through her.

That's why they have women's sports.

(02-25-2024 02:32 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-25-2024 02:18 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-25-2024 02:08 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-23-2024 08:54 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-23-2024 05:08 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Beside the fact that she plays with a pea sized ball in the women's game.

Give her a regulation NBA sized ball and 90% of those logo shots bounce out.

You would question her shooting prowess? She could fill it up as well as anyone other than Steph if she'd been using a men's ball her entire life and every shot was wide open, her issue would be getting any space at all to get off a shot and playing something resembling competent defense. But, sure, make her switch balls when she's 22 and there would be a huge adjustment period, just as there would be for Steph or any other NBA star who had to switch to women's ball.

It's not reasonable to think that she could thrive in the NBA, but I think that a better question is "could she start for a top 10 NCAAT seed?". I don't know the answer to that, but I'd say probably b/c it's just so hard to find a truly elite scorer in the college game. Much like Fredette when he was in college, she'd be tough to keep off the court.

Maybe you've heard, but there is a controversy going on now days about men, who are at best average on men's teams, switching over to women's sports and dominating.

Caitlyn Clark is a fabulous women's player, but she would not last five minutes in a men's game.

It's not a knock on women, it's about physiology. Men are bigger, stronger and faster.

Along the same lines, I think women are better gymnasts and figure skaters because they are smaller, lighter and more flexible than men.

She definitely wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes 30 years ago b/c she'd have been killed. Today? The game is not as physical today as it used to be, to compare it to other sports I'd say that it's more like baseball as a "skill" sport and less like football as a gladiatorial combat sport. Her physical frame of 6', 150 lbs is too small for the NBA certainly, but is it so small that she couldn't bulk up a bit if she had the quickness, say to something closer to 170 instead of 150? Steph is only 6'2" 185 lbs. No, her issue in the NBA would be that Joel Embiid and other 7 footers would also be quicker than her, those guys are probably the best true athletes in any sport in the entire world. But in a marginal NCAAT seed, say someone like St Johns right now, you don't think that Pitino could find a way to get her some shots at critical moments? Like I said, perhaps she's not a starter, perhaps she is, but I think that in the right system she could fill that Jimmer Fredette type role. He was also small and slow, but he was able to get off his shot against mostly also small/slow competition.

Could an average D1 mens player play against the women and physically dominate? Of course, but that wouldn't make him a better long range shooter. Clark has one of the very few things that a college coach needs to recruit rather than teach. I mean, Iowa's women's coach could grab one of the starters from the men's team and put him by the hoop and tell him to dunk all game long, and it would be like Wilt in the 50's. But that wouldn't turn the guy the women's game version of Steph Curry. And it's a lot easier to figure out strategies to guard a physically dominating center by just throwing bodies at him and wearing him down, or hack a Shaq, etc etc, then it is to figure out how to guard someone from half court and never let her get the ball.

You also don't seem to consider Caitlyn on the defensive end of a men's game. Who is she going to guard?

They'd have to play zone because any D1 player is going to go around, over past and through her.

That's why they have women's sports.

Again, I give you Steph Curry.

6'2" 185 lbs

He was a bit smaller in college, too, though close to that. If she was playing in the men's game then she'd need to bulk up a bit, sure, but it's not unreasonable to think that the should gain 15-20 lbs of muscle with the right training regimen and a bunch of $million Dollar$ coaches around her. So, a slightly smaller version of Curry. Or of Jimmer. Curry has learned to play roughly replacement level NBA defense. Her issue would be the same one that Jimmer had, not necessarily her size but rather that she'd need to score enough points to justify her negative defensive rating. And you don't think that somebody dropping bombs from the logo could figure out how to play ok-enough defense to get serious playing time on a marginal NCAA men's team, perhaps even to start? Again, this isn't the NBA here, some of these kids are amazing athletes, and she'd get torn apart in games against top programs, but in games against other bubble teams, or .500 teams, or under .500 teams I bet that she'd score so many points that her poor defense wouldn't be quite so important. Again, just like in Jimmer's case. He wasn't truly exposed until he went to the NBA and, while still the best scorer on the court usually, was such a huge negative on defense that he struggled for playing time. The average athleticism of an NBA player who plays significant minutes is insanely high. The average athleticism of a bubble team guy who plays significant minutes is...good but not great, right?