How long will they have for that?

(02-20-2024 04:17 AM)C2__ Wrote:  How long will they have for that?

6 years after this year.

Very funny… definitely needed its own headline.

(02-20-2024 04:17 AM)C2__ Wrote:  How long will they have for that?

What exit fees are you referring to?

(02-20-2024 09:20 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 04:17 AM)C2__ Wrote:  How long will they have for that?

What exit fees are you referring to?

They're getting something from the X-Pac 10 this year. No public details or journalistic "sources say" on how much as far as I can tell.


What the 2Pac said:
As part of the settlement, the 10 schools “have agreed to forfeit a portion of distributions over the remainder of the 2023-24 year and provide specific guarantees against potential future liabilities,” according to a joint statement issued by WSU and OSU. Additionally, “The conference retains its assets and all future revenues.”

https://tucson.com/sports/college/footba...c70b9.html

What the X-Pac 10 said:
IF YOURE NOT DOWN WITH THAT IVE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA

“This agreement allows OSU and WSU to maintain control of the hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years, as we have always maintained they would, while calling for the vast majority of funds earned in 2023-24 to be distributed equally among the 12 members. We will take time in the coming days to work out the final details.”

So the exit fees are definitely less than a majority of the 2024 distributions. Looking at the last Form 990, distributions were about $36M per school. 1/4 of that would be $9 * 10 = $90M split between WSU and OSU. 1/3 of that would be $12 *10 = $120M.

(02-20-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:20 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 04:17 AM)C2__ Wrote:  How long will they have for that?

What exit fees are you referring to?

They're getting something from the X-Pac 10 this year. No public details or journalistic "sources say" on how much as far as I can tell.


What the 2Pac said:
As part of the settlement, the 10 schools “have agreed to forfeit a portion of distributions over the remainder of the 2023-24 year and provide specific guarantees against potential future liabilities,” according to a joint statement issued by WSU and OSU. Additionally, “The conference retains its assets and all future revenues.”

https://tucson.com/sports/college/footba...c70b9.html

What the X-Pac 10 said:
IF YOURE NOT DOWN WITH THAT IVE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA

“This agreement allows OSU and WSU to maintain control of the hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years, as we have always maintained they would, while calling for the vast majority of funds earned in 2023-24 to be distributed equally among the 12 members. We will take time in the coming days to work out the final details.”

So the exit fees are definitely less than a majority of the 2024 distributions. Looking at the last Form 990, distributions were about $36M per school. 1/4 of that would be $9 * 10 = $90M split between WSU and OSU. 1/3 of that would be $12 *10 = $120M.

(02-20-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:20 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 04:17 AM)C2__ Wrote:  How long will they have for that?

What exit fees are you referring to?

They're getting something from the X-Pac 10 this year. No public details or journalistic "sources say" on how much as far as I can tell.


What the 2Pac said:
As part of the settlement, the 10 schools “have agreed to forfeit a portion of distributions over the remainder of the 2023-24 year and provide specific guarantees against potential future liabilities,” according to a joint statement issued by WSU and OSU. Additionally, “The conference retains its assets and all future revenues.”

https://tucson.com/sports/college/footba...c70b9.html

What the X-Pac 10 said:
IF YOURE NOT DOWN WITH THAT IVE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA

“This agreement allows OSU and WSU to maintain control of the hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years, as we have always maintained they would, while calling for the vast majority of funds earned in 2023-24 to be distributed equally among the 12 members. We will take time in the coming days to work out the final details.”

So the exit fees are definitely less than a majority of the 2024 distributions. Looking at the last Form 990, distributions were about $36M per school. 1/4 of that would be $9 * 10 = $90M split between WSU and OSU. 1/3 of that would be $12 *10 = $120M.

In short, there are no exit fees. And I fail to see how there are "hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years". All 12 members fulfilled all their obligations through June 30 of this year, so any portion of what the PAC should distribute to them that is withheld from the 10 who left is subject to negotiation, and to my knowledge has not yet been publicly disclosed, since potential liabilities that remain are as yet unknown.

(02-20-2024 10:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:20 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 04:17 AM)C2__ Wrote:  How long will they have for that?

What exit fees are you referring to?

They're getting something from the X-Pac 10 this year. No public details or journalistic "sources say" on how much as far as I can tell.


What the 2Pac said:
As part of the settlement, the 10 schools “have agreed to forfeit a portion of distributions over the remainder of the 2023-24 year and provide specific guarantees against potential future liabilities,” according to a joint statement issued by WSU and OSU. Additionally, “The conference retains its assets and all future revenues.”

https://tucson.com/sports/college/footba...c70b9.html

What the X-Pac 10 said:
IF YOURE NOT DOWN WITH THAT IVE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA

“This agreement allows OSU and WSU to maintain control of the hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years, as we have always maintained they would, while calling for the vast majority of funds earned in 2023-24 to be distributed equally among the 12 members. We will take time in the coming days to work out the final details.”

So the exit fees are definitely less than a majority of the 2024 distributions. Looking at the last Form 990, distributions were about $36M per school. 1/4 of that would be $9 * 10 = $90M split between WSU and OSU. 1/3 of that would be $12 *10 = $120M.

In short, there are no exit fees. And I fail to see how there are "hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years". All 12 members fulfilled all their obligations through June 30 of this year, so any portion of what the PAC should distribute to them that is withheld from the 10 who left is subject to negotiation, and to my knowledge has not yet been publicly disclosed, since potential liabilities that remain are as yet unknown.

1. The "withheld distributions" are exit fees. Most often, exit fees are collected as withheld distributions. I'm guessing somewhere around $100M for the Pac-2.

2. "Hundreds of millions" I'm not sure either, but I doubt that they're flat out lying. Say $100M in exit fees. To justify "hundreds of millions", I think you need to come up with another $100M. OSU And WSU are getting about $6M a year in P5 CFP money for two years, that's $24M. The Pac-12's NCAA tournament credits are I dunno, cant find a nonpaywalled link. Say $40, 50M, frontloaded to the next couple of years. That does not get me to $200M, which is probably the lowest you can justify "hundreds of millions" at.

I'm not sure where the rest of the money to justify "hundreds of millions" is supposed to come from. CFP payments will boost with the 12 team playoff, by some amount. Maybe treating the Pac 12 NEtwork assets as if they're a valuable asset and not rapidly depreciating as Diamond RSN's are available at fire sale prices?

Nobody has any idea what the Pac 12's liabilities from the lawsuits will be. But I don't think the X-Pac 10 would have much success trying to dodge those liabilities anyway.

EDIT: You have a point, the X-Pac 10 said "future years", so I don't know if that includes exit fees.

(02-20-2024 12:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 10:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:20 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 04:17 AM)C2__ Wrote:  How long will they have for that?

What exit fees are you referring to?

They're getting something from the X-Pac 10 this year. No public details or journalistic "sources say" on how much as far as I can tell.


What the 2Pac said:
As part of the settlement, the 10 schools “have agreed to forfeit a portion of distributions over the remainder of the 2023-24 year and provide specific guarantees against potential future liabilities,” according to a joint statement issued by WSU and OSU. Additionally, “The conference retains its assets and all future revenues.”

https://tucson.com/sports/college/footba...c70b9.html

What the X-Pac 10 said:
IF YOURE NOT DOWN WITH THAT IVE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA

“This agreement allows OSU and WSU to maintain control of the hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years, as we have always maintained they would, while calling for the vast majority of funds earned in 2023-24 to be distributed equally among the 12 members. We will take time in the coming days to work out the final details.”

So the exit fees are definitely less than a majority of the 2024 distributions. Looking at the last Form 990, distributions were about $36M per school. 1/4 of that would be $9 * 10 = $90M split between WSU and OSU. 1/3 of that would be $12 *10 = $120M.

In short, there are no exit fees. And I fail to see how there are "hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years". All 12 members fulfilled all their obligations through June 30 of this year, so any portion of what the PAC should distribute to them that is withheld from the 10 who left is subject to negotiation, and to my knowledge has not yet been publicly disclosed, since potential liabilities that remain are as yet unknown.

1. The "withheld distributions" are exit fees. Most often, exit fees are collected as withheld distributions. I'm guessing somewhere around $100M for the Pac-2.

They are not exit fees. That's just a requirement that they set aside enough money to pay their share of liabilities incurred while they were still members before they go out the door. An exit fee would be something paid over and above those outstanding liabilities. It isn't clear what happens if there are withheld funds left over after all the debts are paid. If I'm the X-PAC10, I'm going to insist the 2PAC give that money back.

(02-20-2024 12:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 10:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:20 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 04:17 AM)C2__ Wrote:  How long will they have for that?

What exit fees are you referring to?

They're getting something from the X-Pac 10 this year. No public details or journalistic "sources say" on how much as far as I can tell.


What the 2Pac said:
As part of the settlement, the 10 schools “have agreed to forfeit a portion of distributions over the remainder of the 2023-24 year and provide specific guarantees against potential future liabilities,” according to a joint statement issued by WSU and OSU. Additionally, “The conference retains its assets and all future revenues.”

https://tucson.com/sports/college/footba...c70b9.html

What the X-Pac 10 said:
IF YOURE NOT DOWN WITH THAT IVE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA

“This agreement allows OSU and WSU to maintain control of the hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years, as we have always maintained they would, while calling for the vast majority of funds earned in 2023-24 to be distributed equally among the 12 members. We will take time in the coming days to work out the final details.”

So the exit fees are definitely less than a majority of the 2024 distributions. Looking at the last Form 990, distributions were about $36M per school. 1/4 of that would be $9 * 10 = $90M split between WSU and OSU. 1/3 of that would be $12 *10 = $120M.

In short, there are no exit fees. And I fail to see how there are "hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years". All 12 members fulfilled all their obligations through June 30 of this year, so any portion of what the PAC should distribute to them that is withheld from the 10 who left is subject to negotiation, and to my knowledge has not yet been publicly disclosed, since potential liabilities that remain are as yet unknown.

1. The "withheld distributions" are exit fees. Most often, exit fees are collected as withheld distributions. I'm guessing somewhere around $100M for the Pac-2.

2. "Hundreds of millions" I'm not sure either, but I doubt that they're flat out lying. Say $100M in exit fees. To justify "hundreds of millions", I think you need to come up with another $100M. OSU And WSU are getting about $6M a year in P5 CFP money for two years, that's $24M. The Pac-12's NCAA tournament credits are I dunno, cant find a nonpaywalled link. Say $40, 50M, frontloaded to the next couple of years. That does not get me to $200M, which is probably the lowest you can justify "hundreds of millions" at.

I'm not sure where the rest of the money to justify "hundreds of millions" is supposed to come from. CFP payments will boost with the 12 team playoff, by some amount. Maybe treating the Pac 12 NEtwork assets as if they're a valuable asset and not rapidly depreciating as Diamond RSN's are available at fire sale prices?

Nobody has any idea what the Pac 12's liabilities from the lawsuits will be. But I don't think the X-Pac 10 would have much success trying to dodge those liabilities anyway.

EDIT: You have a point, the X-Pac 10 said "future years", so I don't know if that includes exit fees.

The departing 10 are getting "the vast majority" of what they're owed, and agreed to that deal with minimal fight. There is no chance at all the amount they gave up is remotely close to $100M.
The future is a very long time. Maybe they're counting on $200 a year for a million years. That technically fulfills that statement.
The $24M in CFP money is being directly forwarded to the MWC.
The NCAAT credits are around $16M annually, with old ones falling out over 6 years unless they earn more. Note that these are paid to the conference, who then distributes to schools.
PAC-12 finances
In their last reported fiscal year the conference reported over $30M just in salary, payroll taxes, and pensions. That will drop with all the layoffs, but that $16M is probably completely swallowed up funding conference activities since there's no media revenue anymore.

There. Is. No. PAC. Money.

(02-20-2024 01:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 12:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 10:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:20 AM)ken d Wrote:  What exit fees are you referring to?

They're getting something from the X-Pac 10 this year. No public details or journalistic "sources say" on how much as far as I can tell.


What the 2Pac said:
As part of the settlement, the 10 schools “have agreed to forfeit a portion of distributions over the remainder of the 2023-24 year and provide specific guarantees against potential future liabilities,” according to a joint statement issued by WSU and OSU. Additionally, “The conference retains its assets and all future revenues.”

https://tucson.com/sports/college/footba...c70b9.html

What the X-Pac 10 said:
IF YOURE NOT DOWN WITH THAT IVE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA

“This agreement allows OSU and WSU to maintain control of the hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years, as we have always maintained they would, while calling for the vast majority of funds earned in 2023-24 to be distributed equally among the 12 members. We will take time in the coming days to work out the final details.”

So the exit fees are definitely less than a majority of the 2024 distributions. Looking at the last Form 990, distributions were about $36M per school. 1/4 of that would be $9 * 10 = $90M split between WSU and OSU. 1/3 of that would be $12 *10 = $120M.

In short, there are no exit fees. And I fail to see how there are "hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years". All 12 members fulfilled all their obligations through June 30 of this year, so any portion of what the PAC should distribute to them that is withheld from the 10 who left is subject to negotiation, and to my knowledge has not yet been publicly disclosed, since potential liabilities that remain are as yet unknown.

1. The "withheld distributions" are exit fees. Most often, exit fees are collected as withheld distributions. I'm guessing somewhere around $100M for the Pac-2.

They are not exit fees. That's just a requirement that they set aside enough money to pay their share of liabilities incurred while they were still members before they go out the door. An exit fee would be something paid over and above those outstanding liabilities. It isn't clear what happens if there are withheld funds left over after all the debts are paid. If I'm the X-PAC10, I'm going to insist the 2PAC give that money back.

All we have are news articles quoting from press statements, not financial documents. But I read the withheld distribution and the assumption of liabilities as two separate items.

Exit fees are usually written into bylaws as "liquidated damages", reciting that schools leaving the conference damage the conference, everyone agrees on that, but it's hard to quantify how much so they pick a value in advance.

Here the process is running the other way, there are no exit fees specified in advance, so the 2Pac and the XPac10 negotiated an amount after the fact. I'm guessing $10M per school, could be less could be more.

(02-20-2024 01:23 PM)clunk Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 12:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 10:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:20 AM)ken d Wrote:  What exit fees are you referring to?

They're getting something from the X-Pac 10 this year. No public details or journalistic "sources say" on how much as far as I can tell.


What the 2Pac said:
As part of the settlement, the 10 schools “have agreed to forfeit a portion of distributions over the remainder of the 2023-24 year and provide specific guarantees against potential future liabilities,” according to a joint statement issued by WSU and OSU. Additionally, “The conference retains its assets and all future revenues.”

https://tucson.com/sports/college/footba...c70b9.html

What the X-Pac 10 said:
IF YOURE NOT DOWN WITH THAT IVE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA

“This agreement allows OSU and WSU to maintain control of the hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years, as we have always maintained they would, while calling for the vast majority of funds earned in 2023-24 to be distributed equally among the 12 members. We will take time in the coming days to work out the final details.”

So the exit fees are definitely less than a majority of the 2024 distributions. Looking at the last Form 990, distributions were about $36M per school. 1/4 of that would be $9 * 10 = $90M split between WSU and OSU. 1/3 of that would be $12 *10 = $120M.

In short, there are no exit fees. And I fail to see how there are "hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years". All 12 members fulfilled all their obligations through June 30 of this year, so any portion of what the PAC should distribute to them that is withheld from the 10 who left is subject to negotiation, and to my knowledge has not yet been publicly disclosed, since potential liabilities that remain are as yet unknown.

1. The "withheld distributions" are exit fees. Most often, exit fees are collected as withheld distributions. I'm guessing somewhere around $100M for the Pac-2.

2. "Hundreds of millions" I'm not sure either, but I doubt that they're flat out lying. Say $100M in exit fees. To justify "hundreds of millions", I think you need to come up with another $100M. OSU And WSU are getting about $6M a year in P5 CFP money for two years, that's $24M. The Pac-12's NCAA tournament credits are I dunno, cant find a nonpaywalled link. Say $40, 50M, frontloaded to the next couple of years. That does not get me to $200M, which is probably the lowest you can justify "hundreds of millions" at.

I'm not sure where the rest of the money to justify "hundreds of millions" is supposed to come from. CFP payments will boost with the 12 team playoff, by some amount. Maybe treating the Pac 12 NEtwork assets as if they're a valuable asset and not rapidly depreciating as Diamond RSN's are available at fire sale prices?

Nobody has any idea what the Pac 12's liabilities from the lawsuits will be. But I don't think the X-Pac 10 would have much success trying to dodge those liabilities anyway.

EDIT: You have a point, the X-Pac 10 said "future years", so I don't know if that includes exit fees.

The departing 10 are getting "the vast majority" of what they're owed, and agreed to that deal with minimal fight. There is no chance at all the amount they gave up is remotely close to $100M.

Well, the last year I have IRS information on PAC distributions, PAC distributed about $36M a year. The departing ten are getting "the vast majority", so the exit fee number is definitely less than half. How much less? we don't know. I think $10M per school is a good guess.

Quote:The future is a very long time. Maybe they're counting on $200 a year for a million years. That technically fulfills that statement.

What money is the Pac entitled to, under current contracts, past the next 6 years of NCAA Tournament money?

Quote:The $24M in CFP money is being directly forwarded to the MWC.

That doesn't mean it doesn't count as PAC revenue. What the PAC 2 do with the revenue is not the X-Pac-10s concern

Quote:The NCAAT credits are around $16M annually, with old ones falling out over 6 years unless they earn more. Note that these are paid to the conference, who then distributes to schools.
PAC-12 finances
In their last reported fiscal year the conference reported over $30M just in salary, payroll taxes, and pensions. That will drop with all the layoffs, but that $16M is probably completely swallowed up funding conference activities since there's no media revenue anymore.

There. Is. No. PAC. Money.

Not a lot. But the fact is that the X Pac 10 said "hundreds of millions of dollars", and I don't think they're just lying. There must be something somewhere to justify that phrase. I can get most of the way there with the following semi-wild guesses.

$100M exit fees out of 2023-24 distributions.
$50M NCAA tournament money, mostly due in 2024 and 2025.
$25M in CFP money, set to increase with the expansion to 12.

That gets me to $175M, which is well short of "hundreds of millions."
Which tells me there are some things I don't konw.

(02-20-2024 01:52 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 01:23 PM)clunk Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 12:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 10:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  They're getting something from the X-Pac 10 this year. No public details or journalistic "sources say" on how much as far as I can tell.


What the 2Pac said:
As part of the settlement, the 10 schools “have agreed to forfeit a portion of distributions over the remainder of the 2023-24 year and provide specific guarantees against potential future liabilities,” according to a joint statement issued by WSU and OSU. Additionally, “The conference retains its assets and all future revenues.”

https://tucson.com/sports/college/footba...c70b9.html

What the X-Pac 10 said:
IF YOURE NOT DOWN WITH THAT IVE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA

“This agreement allows OSU and WSU to maintain control of the hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years, as we have always maintained they would, while calling for the vast majority of funds earned in 2023-24 to be distributed equally among the 12 members. We will take time in the coming days to work out the final details.”

So the exit fees are definitely less than a majority of the 2024 distributions. Looking at the last Form 990, distributions were about $36M per school. 1/4 of that would be $9 * 10 = $90M split between WSU and OSU. 1/3 of that would be $12 *10 = $120M.

In short, there are no exit fees. And I fail to see how there are "hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years". All 12 members fulfilled all their obligations through June 30 of this year, so any portion of what the PAC should distribute to them that is withheld from the 10 who left is subject to negotiation, and to my knowledge has not yet been publicly disclosed, since potential liabilities that remain are as yet unknown.

1. The "withheld distributions" are exit fees. Most often, exit fees are collected as withheld distributions. I'm guessing somewhere around $100M for the Pac-2.

2. "Hundreds of millions" I'm not sure either, but I doubt that they're flat out lying. Say $100M in exit fees. To justify "hundreds of millions", I think you need to come up with another $100M. OSU And WSU are getting about $6M a year in P5 CFP money for two years, that's $24M. The Pac-12's NCAA tournament credits are I dunno, cant find a nonpaywalled link. Say $40, 50M, frontloaded to the next couple of years. That does not get me to $200M, which is probably the lowest you can justify "hundreds of millions" at.

I'm not sure where the rest of the money to justify "hundreds of millions" is supposed to come from. CFP payments will boost with the 12 team playoff, by some amount. Maybe treating the Pac 12 NEtwork assets as if they're a valuable asset and not rapidly depreciating as Diamond RSN's are available at fire sale prices?

Nobody has any idea what the Pac 12's liabilities from the lawsuits will be. But I don't think the X-Pac 10 would have much success trying to dodge those liabilities anyway.

EDIT: You have a point, the X-Pac 10 said "future years", so I don't know if that includes exit fees.

The departing 10 are getting "the vast majority" of what they're owed, and agreed to that deal with minimal fight. There is no chance at all the amount they gave up is remotely close to $100M.

Well, the last year I have IRS information on PAC distributions, PAC distributed about $36M a year. The departing ten are getting "the vast majority", so the exit fee number is definitely less than half. How much less? we don't know. I think $10M per school is a good guess.

Quote:The future is a very long time. Maybe they're counting on $200 a year for a million years. That technically fulfills that statement.

What money is the Pac entitled to, under current contracts, past the next 6 years of NCAA Tournament money?

Quote:The $24M in CFP money is being directly forwarded to the MWC.

That doesn't mean it doesn't count as PAC revenue. What the PAC 2 do with the revenue is not the X-Pac-10s concern

Quote:The NCAAT credits are around $16M annually, with old ones falling out over 6 years unless they earn more. Note that these are paid to the conference, who then distributes to schools.
PAC-12 finances
In their last reported fiscal year the conference reported over $30M just in salary, payroll taxes, and pensions. That will drop with all the layoffs, but that $16M is probably completely swallowed up funding conference activities since there's no media revenue anymore.

There. Is. No. PAC. Money.

Not a lot. But the fact is that the X Pac 10 said "hundreds of millions of dollars", and I don't think they're just lying. There must be something somewhere to justify that phrase. I can get most of the way there with the following semi-wild guesses.

$100M exit fees out of 2023-24 distributions.
$50M NCAA tournament money, mostly due in 2024 and 2025.
$25M in CFP money, set to increase with the expansion to 12.

That gets me to $175M, which is well short of "hundreds of millions."
Which tells me there are some things I don't konw.

I thought we all knew Shultz was pretty much full of it. Is that something you didn't know?

(02-20-2024 01:52 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 01:23 PM)clunk Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 12:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 10:55 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  They're getting something from the X-Pac 10 this year. No public details or journalistic "sources say" on how much as far as I can tell.


What the 2Pac said:
As part of the settlement, the 10 schools “have agreed to forfeit a portion of distributions over the remainder of the 2023-24 year and provide specific guarantees against potential future liabilities,” according to a joint statement issued by WSU and OSU. Additionally, “The conference retains its assets and all future revenues.”

https://tucson.com/sports/college/footba...c70b9.html

What the X-Pac 10 said:
IF YOURE NOT DOWN WITH THAT IVE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA

“This agreement allows OSU and WSU to maintain control of the hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years, as we have always maintained they would, while calling for the vast majority of funds earned in 2023-24 to be distributed equally among the 12 members. We will take time in the coming days to work out the final details.”

So the exit fees are definitely less than a majority of the 2024 distributions. Looking at the last Form 990, distributions were about $36M per school. 1/4 of that would be $9 * 10 = $90M split between WSU and OSU. 1/3 of that would be $12 *10 = $120M.

In short, there are no exit fees. And I fail to see how there are "hundreds of millions of dollars coming into the conference in future years". All 12 members fulfilled all their obligations through June 30 of this year, so any portion of what the PAC should distribute to them that is withheld from the 10 who left is subject to negotiation, and to my knowledge has not yet been publicly disclosed, since potential liabilities that remain are as yet unknown.

1. The "withheld distributions" are exit fees. Most often, exit fees are collected as withheld distributions. I'm guessing somewhere around $100M for the Pac-2.

2. "Hundreds of millions" I'm not sure either, but I doubt that they're flat out lying. Say $100M in exit fees. To justify "hundreds of millions", I think you need to come up with another $100M. OSU And WSU are getting about $6M a year in P5 CFP money for two years, that's $24M. The Pac-12's NCAA tournament credits are I dunno, cant find a nonpaywalled link. Say $40, 50M, frontloaded to the next couple of years. That does not get me to $200M, which is probably the lowest you can justify "hundreds of millions" at.

I'm not sure where the rest of the money to justify "hundreds of millions" is supposed to come from. CFP payments will boost with the 12 team playoff, by some amount. Maybe treating the Pac 12 NEtwork assets as if they're a valuable asset and not rapidly depreciating as Diamond RSN's are available at fire sale prices?

Nobody has any idea what the Pac 12's liabilities from the lawsuits will be. But I don't think the X-Pac 10 would have much success trying to dodge those liabilities anyway.

EDIT: You have a point, the X-Pac 10 said "future years", so I don't know if that includes exit fees.

The departing 10 are getting "the vast majority" of what they're owed, and agreed to that deal with minimal fight. There is no chance at all the amount they gave up is remotely close to $100M.

Well, the last year I have IRS information on PAC distributions, PAC distributed about $36M a year. The departing ten are getting "the vast majority", so the exit fee number is definitely less than half. How much less? we don't know. I think $10M per school is a good guess.

Quote:The future is a very long time. Maybe they're counting on $200 a year for a million years. That technically fulfills that statement.

What money is the Pac entitled to, under current contracts, past the next 6 years of NCAA Tournament money?

Quote:The $24M in CFP money is being directly forwarded to the MWC.

That doesn't mean it doesn't count as PAC revenue. What the PAC 2 do with the revenue is not the X-Pac-10s concern

Quote:The NCAAT credits are around $16M annually, with old ones falling out over 6 years unless they earn more. Note that these are paid to the conference, who then distributes to schools.
PAC-12 finances
In their last reported fiscal year the conference reported over $30M just in salary, payroll taxes, and pensions. That will drop with all the layoffs, but that $16M is probably completely swallowed up funding conference activities since there's no media revenue anymore.

There. Is. No. PAC. Money.

Not a lot. But the fact is that the X Pac 10 said "hundreds of millions of dollars", and I don't think they're just lying. There must be something somewhere to justify that phrase. I can get most of the way there with the following semi-wild guesses.

$100M exit fees out of 2023-24 distributions.
$50M NCAA tournament money, mostly due in 2024 and 2025.
$25M in CFP money, set to increase with the expansion to 12.

That gets me to $175M, which is well short of "hundreds of millions."
Which tells me there are some things I don't kno

The PAC didn't earn many credits in 2018 and 2019, and I'm not sure if the NCAA made a distribution in 2020 out of the insurance money they got when the tournament was cancelled. Based just on units earned in 2021-2023 they would receive about $60 million payable over the next three years. The bulk of that was earned in 2021.

There's no telling how much, if anything, the 2PAC will receive in the future from the CFP. I can't imagine they would get the full share they were getting before everyone left.

Whatever net cash they get will be significant as a windfall, but past the current CFP contract it's not going to be very much. Even if they get as much as $100 million each, that would only last about three years before they fall off to G5 level compensation. They may be praying that if a new Top Tier is created to respond to court challenges that there's still a chance they could end up joining the 4Corners schools in the Big 12 once the deck chairs on the Titanic are rearranged.

(02-20-2024 01:46 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  All we have are news articles quoting from press statements, not financial documents. But I read the withheld distribution and the assumption of liabilities as two separate items. ...

Since it's not spelled out, you are free to read it as two separate items. Other people are free to read it as two parts of a liability package -- that is, some known liabilities paid for up front, with the departing schools agreeing to assume their share of other liabilities not yet settled.