(02-14-2024 07:25 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 05:06 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:43 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 11:54 AM)eku05 Wrote:  

(02-11-2024 08:45 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Schools that have been in the mix with CUSA at some point include Tarleton State, Missouri State, Stephen F. Austin and Central Arkansas. UMass could be a fit now, with Delaware in the northeast, although UMass is a founding member of the Atlantic 10 Conference, but it may soon be time to reconsider?? Not sure.

C-USA has heard an in-person proposal from EKU which has not be reported of either SFA or Central Arkansas. None of the three is getting in any time soon, but it makes no sense to list those two as "in the mix" and not EKU.

I'd like to see EKU get in. Selfishly it gives us an old rival within 2 hours of Huntington.

You add 'em then.

Can't, we're full.

Same.

(02-13-2024 09:48 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 10:19 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 07:45 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 11:40 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  UMASS is way out on an island. They are better off as a full member of the MAC along with Stony Brook.

There's absolutely no interest in athletics at Stony Brook State University.

The administration doesn't seem to feel the same.
At least some of them. They made noise about FBS someday I think 10-15 years ago.
They just upgraded from AmEast, which is a perfect "institutional fit" of northeastern flagships and mid-ranking state schools, to the CAA which is a hodgepodge but a higher quality football league.

Doesnt mean they have an FBS future. But there are dreamers at at least some desks out on Long Island. Brookhaven lab isn't enough I guess.

Note that it was the veto of stadium money by disgraced former Governor Andrew Cuomo that prevented us from seeing whether there was anything to the noise.

Now, rather than a stadium upgrade required to get into FBS, they have to be able to write a $5m check.

UAlbany would be a better fit based on location and accessibility to facilities.

The 15,000 is not the requirement to be FBS anymore. I do they should do away a conference invite so schools can play as an independent and work on creating new FBS conferences that way. I do think all the schools in FCS is already have the things in place that FBS wants with the medical stuff and extra staff. The smaller schoolsdo not.

(02-13-2024 04:58 PM)JSUCleburneslim Wrote:  I wonder why anyone would be adding schools when the proverbial crap is about to hit the fan.

Mostly to get more warm bodies in the conference In case you get raided again. Assuming ACC gets raided The pull from AAC and Sun belt. those 2 conference go after C-USA. In the case C-USA needs to invite more it's better to have more FCS schools already in transition or done before anything happens.

(02-14-2024 02:01 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:58 PM)JSUCleburneslim Wrote:  I wonder why anyone would be adding schools when the proverbial crap is about to hit the fan.

Mostly to get more warm bodies in the conference In case you get raided again. Assuming ACC gets raided The pull from AAC and Sun belt. those 2 conference go after C-USA. In the case C-USA needs to invite more it's better to have more FCS schools already in transition or done before anything happens.

Why?


Wouldn't you want to see what happens first and then invite schools as needed (and if needed at that time)?

Because if you never end up needing them, you've cost yourself money for no reason. Or invited the wrong schools (like, what if you invited UMass to go with Delaware but Delaware ends up leaving - now you're just stuck with UMass). And of course by definition if this happens, some number of schools will be leaving - those schools wouldn't want to expand now, there is nothing but downside (less money) for them. And the more schools you think might leave, that ought to be that many more "no" votes on dilution.

(02-14-2024 03:05 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 02:01 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:58 PM)JSUCleburneslim Wrote:  I wonder why anyone would be adding schools when the proverbial crap is about to hit the fan.

Mostly to get more warm bodies in the conference In case you get raided again. Assuming ACC gets raided The pull from AAC and Sun belt. those 2 conference go after C-USA. In the case C-USA needs to invite more it's better to have more FCS schools already in transition or done before anything happens.

Why?


Wouldn't you want to see what happens first and then invite schools as needed (and if needed at that time)?

Because if you never end up needing them, you've cost yourself money for no reason. Or invited the wrong schools (like, what if you invited UMass to go with Delaware but Delaware ends up leaving - now you're just stuck with UMass). And of course by definition if this happens, some number of schools will be leaving - those schools wouldn't want to expand now, there is nothing but downside (less money) for them. And the more schools you think might leave, that ought to be that many more "no" votes on dilution.

Because expansion is fun when it's not your conference.

(02-14-2024 03:05 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 02:01 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:58 PM)JSUCleburneslim Wrote:  I wonder why anyone would be adding schools when the proverbial crap is about to hit the fan.

Mostly to get more warm bodies in the conference In case you get raided again. Assuming ACC gets raided The pull from AAC and Sun belt. those 2 conference go after C-USA. In the case C-USA needs to invite more it's better to have more FCS schools already in transition or done before anything happens.

Why?


Wouldn't you want to see what happens first and then invite schools as needed (and if needed at that time)?

Because if you never end up needing them, you've cost yourself money for no reason. Or invited the wrong schools (like, what if you invited UMass to go with Delaware but Delaware ends up leaving - now you're just stuck with UMass). And of course by definition if this happens, some number of schools will be leaving - those schools wouldn't want to expand now, there is nothing but downside (less money) for them. And the more schools you think might leave, that ought to be that many more "no" votes on dilution.

I understand why this mindset is held by some, inutech. Waiting can, at times, be helpful.

But in the "group" leagues, risks have to be taken. And on occasion, time is of the essence more so than we realize.

For example, officials with Army might have said before joining the AAC: "What if the new-look Pac eventually takes four members from the AAC (including two Texas schools, and we want the league to have a strong Texas presence for recruiting) and Temple returns to football independence. Then we're "stuck" in a league that is far different (and less attractive) than we joined."

So, yes, there was a risk for Army in joining the AAC (even for football only). Similarly, there would be a risk for C-USA inviting UMass (just like there is for the league accepting Delaware).

There will almost always be risk and an argument to be made for patience.

Thought I favor C-USA adding UMass, I have posted often that I understand the potential negatives with the league doing so. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, I recall rarely having seen posts from those who oppose the move noting there could be some positives to it.

(02-14-2024 04:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  But, and correct me if I'm wrong, I recall rarely having seen posts from those who oppose the move noting there could be some positives to it.

Are there any?

Um. Their basketball team is good again this year. So it's possible that their basketball team would be good on the court?

Would that count? What else could there be? The potential that the media deal has a New England kicker that would raise its value above the cost of adding them plus some level of actual net profit per school? I'm pretty sure I've said that this is conceivable, if unlikely. I know that I've said I might be more open to it if it reduced October mid-week games o'shame. I'm positive that I've said that I would be less opposed if that were the case. And I certainly would view that as a positive to help mitigate the negatives.



I think there are some who wouldn't add UMass but have seen some silver linings (probably not me, but somebody, surely).

I think there are probably some who aren't crazy about adding anyone but who might have said that if we just have to have someone it might as well be UMass vs some of the other options? Right?

(02-14-2024 03:05 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 02:01 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:58 PM)JSUCleburneslim Wrote:  I wonder why anyone would be adding schools when the proverbial crap is about to hit the fan.

Mostly to get more warm bodies in the conference In case you get raided again. Assuming ACC gets raided The pull from AAC and Sun belt. those 2 conference go after C-USA. In the case C-USA needs to invite more it's better to have more FCS schools already in transition or done before anything happens.

Why?


Wouldn't you want to see what happens first and then invite schools as needed (and if needed at that time)?

Because if you never end up needing them, you've cost yourself money for no reason. Or invited the wrong schools (like, what if you invited UMass to go with Delaware but Delaware ends up leaving - now you're just stuck with UMass). And of course by definition if this happens, some number of schools will be leaving - those schools wouldn't want to expand now, there is nothing but downside (less money) for them. And the more schools you think might leave, that ought to be that many more "no" votes on dilution.

CUSA waited too long when they almost lost the conference completely. SBC almost went under. The WAC lost their FBS status.

Look were the MEAC, Southland and OVC is at? Even NEC as well. Once they lose more schools? They have not much left to replace from. You need to be aggressive to survive.

(02-14-2024 05:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  CUSA waited too long when they almost lost the conference completely. SBC almost went under. The WAC lost their FBS status.

Waited too long? For what?

The old CUSA had 14 schools! You think we should have been sitting at 16 in case the perfect storm happened (as it did)? And if we had. . . what would be different? Obviously you could butterfly effect that out like 50 different ways, but you can't use the old CUSA as an example here for the two huge reasons that 1.) we had 14 already and 2.) we survived anyway.


And who the heck was the WAC supposed to add? They did add two new schools as the ship was going down - you know what that did? Ask NMSU and Idaho how much it helped them. It just gave the SB and CUSA two other programs that were not NMSU or Idaho to add instead and the thing crashed anyway.

(02-14-2024 04:30 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 04:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  But, and correct me if I'm wrong, I recall rarely having seen posts from those who oppose the move noting there could be some positives to it.

Are there any?

Um. Their basketball team is good again this year. So it's possible that their basketball team would be good on the court?

Would that count? What else could there be? The potential that the media deal has a New England kicker that would raise its value above the cost of adding them plus some level of actual net profit per school? I'm pretty sure I've said that this is conceivable, if unlikely. I know that I've said I might be more open to it if it reduced October mid-week games o'shame. I'm positive that I've said that I would be less opposed if that were the case. And I certainly would view that as a positive to help mitigate the negatives.



I think there are some who wouldn't add UMass but have seen some silver linings (probably not me, but somebody, surely).

I think there are probably some who aren't crazy about adding anyone but who might have said that if we just have to have someone it might as well be UMass vs some of the other options? Right?

Possible positives:

A recognizable men's basketball program (I'm sure WKU, New Mexico State and other league members would like that; as an MTSU fan, I surely would)

The prestige of having a state flagship university

A potential rival (in many sports) with Delaware. And if having UMass makes Delaware a better than otherwise C-USA member, and having a better than otherwise Delaware benefits C-USA ... that's a plus.

A respectable baseball program (founded in 1877 and .500 all-time)

Great hockey (which, I realize, might be of no benefit to C-USA) but, again, brings some "big-picture cache" to the league

Content for more, than otherwise, TV games. The more C-USA games televised, the more exposure and publicity. Delaware and UMass would bring that.

I'm not arguing with you: 1. I respect your right to voice your opinion; 2. I share some of your concerns; and 3. I find you "sufficiently close-minded" toward this that I would be wasting your time and my time. I will simply post on occasion to express my views related to this topic, and I appreciate, as you always do, your being polite toward me.

(02-14-2024 06:19 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Possible positives:

A recognizable men's basketball program (I'm sure WKU, New Mexico State and other league members would like that; as an MTSU fan, I surely would) Maybe. I'm not sure this isn't the whatever the opposite of recency bias is though - I'm old enough to remember when they were good, but it's a been a minute. Maybe if this year is a better indicator of their program's future than the last decade it could be again. This is a pretty similar potential positive to what I conceded as possible above.

The prestige of having a state flagship university You reckon if we take this "prestige" and a buck to McDonalds we could get a cup of coffee?

A potential rival (in many sports) with Delaware. And if having UMass makes Delaware a better than otherwise C-USA member, and having a better than otherwise Delaware benefits C-USA ... that's a plus. I think they call this sunk cost fallacy, right? We already added Delaware so we should chase good money with bad? Something like that? There is some logic to this, as infuriating as it is, but it might be more of a "less bad" sell than an actual positive.

A respectable baseball program (founded in 1877 and .500 all-time) I have them one game under .500. And with one winning season in 20 years. Not sure about this one.

Great hockey (which, I realize, might be of no benefit to C-USA) but, again, brings some "big-picture cache" to the league Yeah, totally N/A.

Content for more, than otherwise, TV games. The more C-USA games televised, the more exposure and publicity. Delaware and UMass would bring that. But if they're the ones on tv, then we aren't, right? Volume in itself isn't better - it's volume per school. I don't see how this is good - you think just people hearing "CUSA" or seeing a standings chart while Delaware and UMass play that this is good for all of us? Because it's good for the CUSA brand or something? No limits on US and all that? I gotta say - I don't find this one compelling. To whatever extent this is positive (if it exists) it's got to be such a small difference as to be invisible. Surely?

I'm not arguing with you: 1. I respect your right to voice your opinion; 2. I share some of your concerns; and 3. I find you "sufficiently close-minded" toward this that I would be wasting your time and my time. I will simply post on occasion to express my views related to this topic, and I appreciate, as you always do, your being polite toward me.

I am pretty firmly convinced. But I actually like it (believe it or not) when people try to support their points of view (especially when I disagree). I'm open to considering other points of view, but you gotta actually convince me to convince me.

There are usually silver linings even to things I think are worse for my program/college football on the whole. I'll be reaching for them when this inevitably happens.

(02-14-2024 10:40 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 09:48 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:53 PM)JSUCleburneslim Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:37 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 10:39 PM)army56mike Wrote:  12. UMass if they provide evidence of substantial commitment to improving football facilities and budget and the overall athletic department.

13. Missouri St. if UMass doesn’t show commitment to meeting the expectations of C-USA….. and a pro FBS president is installed at MSU, and their desire to rise to FBS supercedes their desire to wait for a SBC invite.

14. Tarty if the invite comes. They have already expressed their desire. And they seem pretty committed.

Runer-up Again- EKU. Always ready. Always waiting. Sittin’ by the phone waitin’ on a call no one is making…..yet.
Those three are really the only teams in the running.

I'd invite UMass and UConn both in for FB only. Makes the most sense.

Please... Why would anyone want to add the worst fbs teams in the country add multiple hours of travel and football only?
Would you honestly do your job in this manner?

UConn would be your biggest brand

UMass is in a state of 7 million

FB in your post above means "football" right? We are talking about football? If you meant like facebook members or something, I guess we should not have all assumed you were trolling.

If you did mean football, the fact that all the fans of actual CUSA teams assumed you were just trolling probably says something about the merits of the suggestion.

Of course it was Football

Why would I be trolling? I have 25K posts here and have never received a warning

UConn in Football would be your biggest brand. UConn and UMass can create rivalries with Delaware and Liberty

(02-12-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 07:45 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 11:40 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 11:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 10:12 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I started a new job in the past couple of months and have been very busy. So I’m behind on realignment news in general.

Specifically, can someone kindly catch me up on C-USA, Delaware, UMass, and who might become the twelfth member, and when?

Thanks!

Speculation is that UMass is talking with them. Don't recall any other serious rumors.

UMASS is way out on an island. They are better off as a full member of the MAC along with Stony Brook.

There's absolutely no interest in athletics at Stony Brook State University.

The administration doesn't seem to feel the same.
At least some of them. They made noise about FBS someday I think 10-15 years ago.
They just upgraded from AmEast, which is a perfect "institutional fit" of northeastern flagships and mid-ranking state schools, to the CAA which is a hodgepodge but a higher quality football league.

Doesnt mean they have an FBS future. But there are dreamers at at least some desks out on Long Island. Brookhaven lab isn't enough I guess.

My sources definitely disagree and I know there's absolutely 0% appetite along students. I meant FBS and Power grouping by the way. They are right where they should be.

(02-12-2024 10:19 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(02-12-2024 09:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 07:45 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 11:40 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 11:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  Speculation is that UMass is talking with them. Don't recall any other serious rumors.

UMASS is way out on an island. They are better off as a full member of the MAC along with Stony Brook.

There's absolutely no interest in athletics at Stony Brook State University.

The administration doesn't seem to feel the same.
At least some of them. They made noise about FBS someday I think 10-15 years ago.
They just upgraded from AmEast, which is a perfect "institutional fit" of northeastern flagships and mid-ranking state schools, to the CAA which is a hodgepodge but a higher quality football league.

Doesnt mean they have an FBS future. But there are dreamers at at least some desks out on Long Island. Brookhaven lab isn't enough I guess.

Note that it was the veto of stadium money by disgraced former Governor Andrew Cuomo that prevented us from seeing whether there was anything to the noise.

Now, rather than a stadium upgrade required to get into FBS, they have to be able to write a $5m check.

Doesn't every school have one donor that can pony up $5M?
Stony Brook is a cinch then because Jim Simons makes at least $5M per week, so welcome SUNY SB to the B10 or AAC.
If that's all it takes then add Binghamton to the inclusion list too.

(02-14-2024 06:50 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 10:40 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 09:48 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:53 PM)JSUCleburneslim Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:37 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  I'd invite UMass and UConn both in for FB only. Makes the most sense.

Please... Why would anyone want to add the worst fbs teams in the country add multiple hours of travel and football only?
Would you honestly do your job in this manner?

UConn would be your biggest brand

UMass is in a state of 7 million

FB in your post above means "football" right? We are talking about football? If you meant like facebook members or something, I guess we should not have all assumed you were trolling.

If you did mean football, the fact that all the fans of actual CUSA teams assumed you were just trolling probably says something about the merits of the suggestion.

Of course it was Football

Why would I be trolling? I have 25K posts here and have never received a warning

UConn in Football would be your biggest brand. UConn and UMass can create rivalries with Delaware and Liberty

I wrote a long response but it was probably too much.

Instead I will just say that I strongly disagree.

(02-14-2024 05:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 03:05 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 02:01 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:58 PM)JSUCleburneslim Wrote:  I wonder why anyone would be adding schools when the proverbial crap is about to hit the fan.

Mostly to get more warm bodies in the conference In case you get raided again. Assuming ACC gets raided The pull from AAC and Sun belt. those 2 conference go after C-USA. In the case C-USA needs to invite more it's better to have more FCS schools already in transition or done before anything happens.

Why?


Wouldn't you want to see what happens first and then invite schools as needed (and if needed at that time)?

Because if you never end up needing them, you've cost yourself money for no reason. Or invited the wrong schools (like, what if you invited UMass to go with Delaware but Delaware ends up leaving - now you're just stuck with UMass). And of course by definition if this happens, some number of schools will be leaving - those schools wouldn't want to expand now, there is nothing but downside (less money) for them. And the more schools you think might leave, that ought to be that many more "no" votes on dilution.

CUSA waited too long when they almost lost the conference completely. SBC almost went under. The WAC lost their FBS status.

Look were the MEAC, Southland and OVC is at? Even NEC as well. Once they lose more schools? They have not much left to replace from. You need to be aggressive to survive.

I would agree somewhat. But aggressively adding the worst team in football seems moronic. The wac died because there were no western teams to add. This is not a problem in the east, which is why CUSA did not suffer the same fate.

Is there a way MTSU, WKU, LT, and FIU could go to the Sun Belt? I’m just thinking the SBC seems more cohesive and has a stronger brand?

- LT, Louisiana, Louisiana-Monroe, Texas State, Southern Miss, Arkansas State
- MTSU, WKU, Marshall, Old Dominion, App State, JMU
- South Alabama, Troy, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, FIU

(02-14-2024 10:49 PM)JSUCleburneslim Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 05:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 03:05 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 02:01 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(02-13-2024 04:58 PM)JSUCleburneslim Wrote:  I wonder why anyone would be adding schools when the proverbial crap is about to hit the fan.

Mostly to get more warm bodies in the conference In case you get raided again. Assuming ACC gets raided The pull from AAC and Sun belt. those 2 conference go after C-USA. In the case C-USA needs to invite more it's better to have more FCS schools already in transition or done before anything happens.

Why?


Wouldn't you want to see what happens first and then invite schools as needed (and if needed at that time)?

Because if you never end up needing them, you've cost yourself money for no reason. Or invited the wrong schools (like, what if you invited UMass to go with Delaware but Delaware ends up leaving - now you're just stuck with UMass). And of course by definition if this happens, some number of schools will be leaving - those schools wouldn't want to expand now, there is nothing but downside (less money) for them. And the more schools you think might leave, that ought to be that many more "no" votes on dilution.

CUSA waited too long when they almost lost the conference completely. SBC almost went under. The WAC lost their FBS status.

Look were the MEAC, Southland and OVC is at? Even NEC as well. Once they lose more schools? They have not much left to replace from. You need to be aggressive to survive.

I would agree somewhat. But aggressively adding the worst team in football seems moronic. The wac died because there were no western teams to add. This is not a problem in the east, which is why CUSA did not suffer the same fate.

If you are referring to UMass as the worst team in football, your off a bit and did beat a team in their house that many CUSA teams could not beat, NMSU. Why would Sterling Galban transfer to UMass from Jacksonville State if we are the worst team? We just knocked of Richmond in their house net #70, better than the Best CUSA team LA Tech.

(02-14-2024 10:53 PM)tigergatorcyclone Wrote:  Is there a way MTSU, WKU, LT, and FIU could go to the Sun Belt? I’m just thinking the SBC seems more cohesive and has a stronger brand?

- LT, Louisiana, Louisiana-Monroe, Texas State, Southern Miss, Arkansas State
- MTSU, WKU, Marshall, Old Dominion, App State, JMU
- South Alabama, Troy, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, FIU

Louisiana Tech has not previously been amenable to sharing a conference with Louisiana-Monroe. FIU also isn't close to anyone, and without FAU, they aren't justifiable.

(02-14-2024 10:53 PM)tigergatorcyclone Wrote:  Is there a way MTSU, WKU, LT, and FIU could go to the Sun Belt? I’m just thinking the SBC seems more cohesive and has a stronger brand?

- LT, Louisiana, Louisiana-Monroe, Texas State, Southern Miss, Arkansas State
- MTSU, WKU, Marshall, Old Dominion, App State, JMU
- South Alabama, Troy, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, FIU

The SB doesn't want us. Or need us. All four were in the 'belt (only 3 for football) and left. It would mess up their divisions and just wouldn't really give them anything they need. Tech and WKU might be helpful on the field (on average, over time), but no money.