(01-06-2024 09:44 PM)Zorch Wrote:  If I’m the coaching staff I’m working on boxing out, rebounding, thinking (that is, knowing how much time is left in the half when you get the ball with 8 seconds left and are just walking it up like you have all the time in the world and not saying stuff that will get you called for a technical foul) and, OF COURSE, free throw shooting!

My issue is this isn't something to be ironed out at the start of league play. Adding some box out Drills and extra free throws in practice doesn't fix this. Knowing situational time and score is nothing new for D1 athletes. These are fundamentals taught from youth ball and up. These are philosophic issues in how the coaches teach and the kids we are recruiting. Part of coaching is establishing a standard when practices started in October. It's not something to be working on and trying to figure out. Guys getting beat for offensive rebounds happens and sometimes there is a bad bounce or a guy is out hustled. Thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about guys not boxing out. In my playing days, from day 1 we were drilled to box out. Practice came to a screaching halt and we ran. Before long, you don't think about it and just do it. More often than not, all 5 don't do this.
We don't instinctually just do fundamental things which speaks to it not being a coaching priority. Sloppy fundamentals left uncorrected snowball. I don't know. Perhaps I'm a little too old school and that isn't how it's done anymore.

Completely agree with your post Mr. J. Trips to Colorado and California can build team unity, but until everyone is hustling we are just going to be soft. That was exactly what it looked like yesterday. I hope nobody really thinks that Drexel's players were better than ours from a talent perspective because they aren't. Monroe, House, and Turner are bruisers. We don't have those types of players on our roster. I've always said that I don't like dirty play, but hard screens, hard fouls, and tight defense don't always turn into fouls or flagrant fouls depending on the referrees. The teams under Bruce Parkhill had a lot of hard nosed kids with chips on their shoulders.

(01-07-2024 09:26 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(01-06-2024 09:44 PM)Zorch Wrote:  If I’m the coaching staff I’m working on boxing out, rebounding, thinking (that is, knowing how much time is left in the half when you get the ball with 8 seconds left and are just walking it up like you have all the time in the world and not saying stuff that will get you called for a technical foul) and, OF COURSE, free throw shooting!

My issue is this isn't something to be ironed out at the start of league play. Adding some box out Drills and extra free throws in practice doesn't fix this. Knowing situational time and score is nothing new for D1 athletes. These are fundamentals taught from youth ball and up. These are philosophic issues in how the coaches teach and the kids we are recruiting. Part of coaching is establishing a standard when practices started in October. It's not something to be working on and trying to figure out. Guys getting beat for offensive rebounds happens and sometimes there is a bad bounce or a guy is out hustled. Thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about guys not boxing out. In my playing days, from day 1 we were drilled to box out. Practice came to a screaching halt and we ran. Before long, you don't think about it and just do it. More often than not, all 5 don't do this.
We don't instinctually just do fundamental things which speaks to it not being a coaching priority. Sloppy fundamentals left uncorrected snowball. I don't know. Perhaps I'm a little too old school and that isn't how it's done anymore.

More frustrating to me is that we are capable of boxing out well. In the first half, we did a pretty good job on multiple occasions of putting one or two bodies on Williams and having a guard or other forward collect the rebound. But mostly that was when Drexel was not crashing the offensive glass and we didn't have to box out 3+ players.

w/r/t the end of half time management, I thought Moss did it exactly right, except he should not have given the ball up. Credit to Moore or whoever was defending him, because I think Moss knew what he wanted to do and it got stymied. He dropped it off to Case who wasn't expecting a pass, and we ended up with what we got. Moss was our best player last night, and clearly so even at that point in the game. I have no problem with the end of half play being give him the ball and let him go.

Also, FWIW, Chase Lowe spent the entire 2nd half warmups shooting free throws. It looks like there's something just not right about his shot right now. He looked frustrated and uncomfortable, like he's trying to find the perfect tweak or something. Usually that means that he's in his own head about it, and there's not an easy fix for that.

(01-07-2024 10:45 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  More frustrating to me is that we are capable of boxing out well. In the first half, we did a pretty good job on multiple occasions of putting one or two bodies on Williams and having a guard or other forward collect the rebound. But mostly that was when Drexel was not crashing the offensive glass and we didn't have to box out 3+ players.

I know we are capable, but I've almost written this post after many games this season. Even games where we outrebounded our opponents I've noticed guys lazy on box out fundamentals. The will to box out is an every possession thing. Anything less isn't enough and shows me lack of focus. Seeing it repeatedly shows me that it wasn't stressed.

I'm coaching my son's 8th grade team today. You know what happens when a kid doesn't think to box out? They get to sit next to me and think about why they didn't box out.

(01-07-2024 10:45 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  .
w/r/t the end of half time management, I thought Moss did it exactly right, except he should not have given the ball up. Credit to Moore or whoever was defending him, because I think Moss knew what he wanted to do and it got stymied. He dropped it off to Case who wasn't expecting a pass, and we ended up with what we got. Moss was our best player last night, and clearly so even at that point in the game. I have no problem with the end of half play being give him the ball and let him go.

I have to disagree, here. When Moss started his dribble towards the basket, at the end of the half, there were 9.4 seconds to go. When he actually got across half court, there were 4.1 seconds to go. So, when their defender DID do a nice job of stopping him, he did not have time to make a second move or make a pass where the receiving players would have had a chance to make any offensive move.
5 seconds is an eternity when you get in that situation.

Lost opportunity.

(01-07-2024 10:59 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(01-07-2024 10:45 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  More frustrating to me is that we are capable of boxing out well. In the first half, we did a pretty good job on multiple occasions of putting one or two bodies on Williams and having a guard or other forward collect the rebound. But mostly that was when Drexel was not crashing the offensive glass and we didn't have to box out 3+ players.

I know we are capable, but I've almost written this post after many games this season. Even games where we outrebounded our opponents I've noticed guys lazy on box out fundamentals. The will to box out is an every possession thing. Anything less isn't enough and shows me lack of focus. Seeing it repeatedly shows me that it wasn't stressed.

I'm coaching my son's 8th grade team today. You know what happens when a kid doesn't think to box out? They get to sit next to me and think about why they didn't box out.

I'm agreeing with you. :) That we boxed out Williams on some plays in the first half means that the coaches had talked about it in the gameplan, but that we lost that focus when Williams was out means that it's not an institutional focus. Like you said, it's not a skill that should be turned on or off, it should be second nature.

(01-07-2024 11:07 AM)billymac Wrote:  

(01-07-2024 10:45 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  .
w/r/t the end of half time management, I thought Moss did it exactly right, except he should not have given the ball up. Credit to Moore or whoever was defending him, because I think Moss knew what he wanted to do and it got stymied. He dropped it off to Case who wasn't expecting a pass, and we ended up with what we got. Moss was our best player last night, and clearly so even at that point in the game. I have no problem with the end of half play being give him the ball and let him go.

I have to disagree, here. When Moss started his dribble towards the basket, at the end of the half, there were 9.4 seconds to go. When he actually got across half court, there were 4.1 seconds to go. So, when their defender DID do a nice job of stopping him, he did not have time to make a second move or make a pass where the receiving players would have had a chance to make any offensive move.
5 seconds is an eternity when you get in that situation.

Lost opportunity.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I understand what you're saying and I agree that it's a standard practice to have the "I got stuffed" second option. I think Moss needed to either push the ball up in order to have that bailout option or just commit to one move whether the defender is good or not. He split the difference and it was the worst of both options. If he was going to dump it off, he should have pushed the ball more to have more time for that. If he wasn't going to leave time for a second play, he shouldn't have dumped it to Case.

(01-07-2024 01:38 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(01-07-2024 10:59 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(01-07-2024 10:45 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  More frustrating to me is that we are capable of boxing out well. In the first half, we did a pretty good job on multiple occasions of putting one or two bodies on Williams and having a guard or other forward collect the rebound. But mostly that was when Drexel was not crashing the offensive glass and we didn't have to box out 3+ players.

I know we are capable, but I've almost written this post after many games this season. Even games where we outrebounded our opponents I've noticed guys lazy on box out fundamentals. The will to box out is an every possession thing. Anything less isn't enough and shows me lack of focus. Seeing it repeatedly shows me that it wasn't stressed.

I'm coaching my son's 8th grade team today. You know what happens when a kid doesn't think to box out? They get to sit next to me and think about why they didn't box out.

I'm agreeing with you. :) That we boxed out Williams on some plays in the first half means that the coaches had talked about it in the gameplan, but that we lost that focus when Williams was out means that it's not an institutional focus. Like you said, it's not a skill that should be turned on or off, it should be second nature.

I'm agreeing with you as well. Just venting here. Williams is an all-conference beast. If it was just him getting offensive boards, I'd begrudgingly accept it. They were stealing extra possessions all up and down the lineup - forwards, wings, guards, Williams in the game or not... Didn't matter. Drexel is a big experienced team, but this isn't just a Drexel problem. It's something I pay attention to and have seen often this season. As noted earlier, we have the size and athleticism to do it. It isn't emphasized.

(01-07-2024 01:51 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(01-07-2024 11:07 AM)billymac Wrote:  

(01-07-2024 10:45 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  .
w/r/t the end of half time management, I thought Moss did it exactly right, except he should not have given the ball up. Credit to Moore or whoever was defending him, because I think Moss knew what he wanted to do and it got stymied. He dropped it off to Case who wasn't expecting a pass, and we ended up with what we got. Moss was our best player last night, and clearly so even at that point in the game. I have no problem with the end of half play being give him the ball and let him go.

I have to disagree, here. When Moss started his dribble towards the basket, at the end of the half, there were 9.4 seconds to go. When he actually got across half court, there were 4.1 seconds to go. So, when their defender DID do a nice job of stopping him, he did not have time to make a second move or make a pass where the receiving players would have had a chance to make any offensive move.
5 seconds is an eternity when you get in that situation.

Lost opportunity.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I understand what you're saying and I agree that it's a standard practice to have the "I got stuffed" second option. I think Moss needed to either push the ball up in order to have that bailout option or just commit to one move whether the defender is good or not. He split the difference and it was the worst of both options. If he was going to dump it off, he should have pushed the ball more to have more time for that. If he wasn't going to leave time for a second play, he shouldn't have dumped it to Case.

Actually, I think we are, sort of, agreeing. I wasn't against Moss taking the last shot, heck he was the only real spark for the offense.
However, I feel that if he had gotten quickly across the half-court line and THEN tried his move, he would have been less likely to have been forced into a desperation move when his defender put the clamps on his preferred route.

However, I have always thought that Dane's teams take too long to get into their final shot routine, in every instance.

(01-07-2024 10:45 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  Also, FWIW, Chase Lowe spent the entire 2nd half warmups shooting free throws. It looks like there's something just not right about his shot right now. He looked frustrated and uncomfortable, like he's trying to find the perfect tweak or something. Usually that means that he's in his own head about it, and there's not an easy fix for that.

FWIW, Chase did the same thing in the Elon game but shot them well in the second half of that game. If my quick glance at the play by play is correct, he was 1-2 in the first half and 7-9 in the second (8-11 total).

I agree with your observations…his shot is very flat and it looks like he’s just trying to get it over the front of the rim.

(01-07-2024 03:18 PM)billymac Wrote:  However, I have always thought that Dane's teams take too long to get into their final shot routine, in every instance.

You speak with great wisdom


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro